I asked: Track it or sell it, you all said track it! Finally ready to run!

[cbaclawski]

About a year ago I asked on this forum whether you guys thought I should sell my Z, or modify it for Track duty. You overwhelmingly recommended the Track route. I listened, and it's finally ready for the road course. (though I'm a little scared if I'm being honest)

What started as a 90 zr1, that had the Lingenfelter 368 package installed in 1997 at about 43k mi (~83k now) has had some significant work/refreshing done to it and is now ready to roll:

Ron Davis Radiator installed
3.73 rear end
Racetech Seats and Harnesses
Upgraded brakes and fluids
Secondary intake system removed
Custom Mark Haibeck 368 tune
New 160tw Track tires


In addition to the work my semi-local race shop did (big dog motorsports - rock hill, sc - highly recommended, though more of an import shop than a vette specialist) the car actually was shipped up to Marc Haibeck's shop near Chicago for much of the ZR! specific stuff and a thorough once over.

I'm going to run it next weekend and can't wait to see what it can do, or more accurately, what my limited talent can do with it...


pics:
https://i.postimg.cc/Kzm636c1/20181206-173036.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/tTDL3B72/20181206-173019.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/gjTQ5rVh/20181206-172903.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/y6QMWpMN/20181206-172843.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/yxd2v0ZB/20181206-172813.jpg

[Ronstar]

Nice! Be safe and have fun

[cbaclawski]

Nice! Be safe and have fun


Thanks!

[RussMcB]

Nice. Sounds like you're doing all the right stuff to have a fast and reliable track car.

Where are you going with it next weekend?

Are Salad Shooter wheels somewhat rare, hard to come by? If yes and you'd like to set them aside I have some track wheels & tires I'm not using any more. Let me know if you want details about them.

[cbaclawski]

Nice. Sounds like you're doing all the right stuff to have a fast and reliable track car.

Where are you going with it next weekend?

Are Salad Shooter wheels somewhat rare, hard to come by? If yes and you'd like to set them aside I have some track wheels & tires I'm not using any more. Let me know if you want details about them.


Heading to CMP next Saturday, will be it's maiden run. Not sure what you mean by salad shooter wheels. The stock ones? I'm not too worried about damaging them/resale at this point since the seats and harnesses are probably worth half of what the whole car is at this point. That said I'm not opposed to having an extra set(especially if they are lighter)... whatchu got?


Curt

[ghlkal]

I'm going to run it next weekend and can't wait to see what it can do, or more accurately, what my limited talent can do with it...



Excellent! I wish you luck, and keep us posted on your results.

[RussMcB]

Heading to CMP next Saturday, will be it's maiden run. Not sure what you mean by salad shooter wheels. The stock ones? I'm not too worried about damaging them/resale at this point since the seats and harnesses are probably worth half of what the whole car is at this point. That said I'm not opposed to having an extra set(especially if they are lighter)... whatchu got?


CurtYes, the stock '90 wheels. I think they were unique for that year only, so I assumed they are somewhat rare and maybe worth protecting.

CMP is a fun track, especially the kink on the back straight. I look forward to hearing about your weekend. Will you have a camera in the car?

I sent you a PM with info about my extra track day wheels and tires.

Have fun!

[cbaclawski]

Excellent! I wish you luck, and keep us posted on your results.

Yes, the stock '90 wheels. I think they were unique for that year only, so I assumed they are somewhat rare and maybe worth protecting.

CMP is a fun track, especially the kink on the back straight. I look forward to hearing about your weekend. Will you have a camera in the car?

I sent you a PM with info about my extra track day wheels and tires.

Have fun!

Thanks. I usually just run a data logger, but for the first time out I'll probably dust off the VIRB and get some footage. I'll post a link to the video here... (of course with the mistakes/poor laps edited out :) )

[RussMcB]

I'm a big believer of video, mostly for the entertainment value, and because my memory is so bad I can never remember everything that happens on track. And it's so cheap nowadays.

What kind of logger will you use?

[cbaclawski]

I'm a big believer of video, mostly for the entertainment value, and because my memory is so bad I can never remember everything that happens on track. And it's so cheap nowadays.

What kind of logger will you use?


I have the Aim Solo 2, and I usually run the track addict app on my phone at the same time because I really can't dig in to the aim data till after I get home and the app gives me pretty decent data I can easily review between sessions. Truthfully if I realized how good the app data was compared to the standalone Aim, I probably would never have bought the Aim. Of course I didn't know how close the 2 were till I had both... The Garmin virb Camera has built in GPS too, and connects to the obdii port for engine data, but the software sucks, and the obd data connection is unreliable on a good day(and obviously there is no obdii port on a 1990), so it's really only good for making pretty videos...

[RussMcB]

<snip> ... and the app gives me pretty decent data I can easily review between sessions. If it's not asking too much, can you do a little write up of your track day afterwards, including looking at your data in between sessions, what you see in it and how you use it to go faster? I would enjoy reading that and probably many others, here, too.

:thumbsup:

[gtcollins@maxnet.co.nz]

About a year ago I asked on this forum whether you guys thought I should sell my Z, or modify it for Track duty. You overwhelmingly recommended the Track route. I listened, and it's finally ready for the road course. (though I'm a little scared if I'm being honest)

What started as a 90 zr1, that had the Lingenfelter 368 package installed in 1997 at about 43k mi (~83k now) has had some significant work/refreshing done to it and is now ready to roll:

Ron Davis Radiator installed
3.73 rear end
Racetech Seats and Harnesses
Upgraded brakes and fluids
Secondary intake system removed
Custom Mark Haibeck 368 tune
New 160tw Track tires


In addition to the work my semi-local race shop did (big dog motorsports - rock hill, sc - highly recommended, though more of an import shop than a vette specialist) the car actually was shipped up to Marc Haibeck's shop near Chicago for much of the ZR! specific stuff and a thorough once over.

I'm going to run it next weekend and can't wait to see what it can do, or more accurately, what my limited talent can do with it...


pics:
https://i.postimg.cc/Kzm636c1/20181206-173036.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/tTDL3B72/20181206-173019.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/gjTQ5rVh/20181206-172903.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/y6QMWpMN/20181206-172843.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/yxd2v0ZB/20181206-172813.jpgAre your seats made in New Zealand

Sent from my SM-G960F using ZR-1 Net Registry mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)

[cbaclawski]

Not sure, They are racetech, and they sure did take a long time to get here, so it's a distinct possibility...

[henryr]

what brake mods did you do ?

[cbaclawski]

what brake mods did you do ?

Stainiless lines, new rotors, and track pads... I believe the calipers are still stock, but it stops with more authority than the tires have grip...

[gtcollins@maxnet.co.nz]

Not sure, They are racetech, and they sure did take a long time to get here, so it's a distinct possibility...Race tech factory is in Lower Hutt where I live

Sent from my SM-G960F using ZR-1 Net Registry mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)

[onethumb]

Stainiless lines, new rotors, and track pads... I believe the calipers are still stock, but it stops with more authority than the tires have grip...

Just curious---which pads specifically did you go with? I'm a fan of Carbotech, but still waffling between X10 and X12 in front, and X8 or X10 in the rear.

[cbaclawski]

Just curious---which pads specifically did you go with? I'm a fan of Carbotech, but still waffling between X10 and X12 in front, and X8 or X10 in the rear.


Hawk HP+. Not true 100% race pads, but since I've been running them on my other track cars (e46 330i, mazda rx-8) I've been very impressed with their stopping power, never experienced any fade, and don't destroy my rotors if I decide to drive them on the street without getting them up to temp.


The Z will likely be faster (and definitely heavier) than my others so I'm curious how well they'll hold up on track in this application. I'll post how they do...

[onethumb]

Hawk HP+. Not true 100% race pads, but since I've been running them on my other track cars (e46 330i, mazda rx-8) I've been very impressed with their stopping power, never experienced any fade, and don't destroy my rotors if I decide to drive them on the street without getting them up to temp.


The Z will likely be faster (and definitely heavier) than my others so I'm curious how well they'll hold up on track in this application. I'll post how they do...

I'll be curious to find out---Hawk pads didn't last long on my Giulia, and it is comparable in HP and weight. To be fair, it's a brake-by-wire system, so there's little feedback to the driver if things get hot.

[tnova]

Count me in on the follow-up on your track day.

I've been prepping my '91 for track days and autocross but keeping it streetable. (For a dedicated track car I have an older Porsche - former PCA Club racer that I've run in TTs and next year in competition). As time goes on I'll likely run the ZR-1 more than the Porsche.

Engine is stock on the bottom with GVD top end porting, Watson headers, RAM dual disc clutch and AL flywheel. 4.10 rear gear also.

The brakes are Wilwood 6-piston calipers with hats and rotors on the front and stock calipers with Wilwood hats and rotors on the rear. Those made a tremendous difference however adjustability, even with a bias valve, wasn't enough. I've recently installed a larger master cylinder ('98-'02 Camaro) since the '90-'91 master cylinder bores are the smallest of the C4s and with the Wilwood pistons more fluid volume was needed.

I absolutely agree with you on brake pads; the right pad can make all the difference in the world. Right now I'm running Wilwood pads that came with the kit, but have had best track experience brake tuning with Hawk pads. The bad part is the Hawk Blues can destroy brake piston rubber components if not cleaned after every event - not something I want on a street car.

Other track mods include urethane bushings and the typical rear suspension changes popularly written about as well as BB C-beam plates

I've also done a throttle pedal mod to improve heel-toe that I'll test out this spring. It changes the pedal pivot point. If it works, I'll publish on the forum or submit for the HTB.

Finally in the process of relocating the battery to the rear passenger smuggler's box combining the Haibeck kit with a SPA 6-pole cutoff switch that keeps factory wiring to the engine area mostly intact. The SPA 6-pole switch prevents engine run-on but protects the alternator though a ground. I'll submit that to HTB soon.

Tnova

[cbaclawski]

Count me in on the follow-up on your track day.

I've been prepping my '91 for track days and autocross but keeping it streetable. (For a dedicated track car I have an older Porsche - former PCA Club racer that I've run in TTs and next year in competition). As time goes on I'll likely run the ZR-1 more than the Porsche.

Engine is stock on the bottom with GVD top end porting, Watson headers, RAM dual disc clutch and AL flywheel. 4.10 rear gear also.

The brakes are Wilwood 6-piston calipers with hats and rotors on the front and stock calipers with Wilwood hats and rotors on the rear. Those made a tremendous difference however adjustability, even with a bias valve, wasn't enough. I've recently installed a larger master cylinder ('98-'02 Camaro) since the '90-'91 master cylinder bores are the smallest of the C4s and with the Wilwood pistons more fluid volume was needed.

I absolutely agree with you on brake pads; the right pad can make all the difference in the world. Right now I'm running Wilwood pads that came with the kit, but have had best track experience brake tuning with Hawk pads. The bad part is the Hawk Blues can destroy brake piston rubber components if not cleaned after every event - not something I want on a street car.

Other track mods include urethane bushings and the typical rear suspension changes popularly written about as well as BB C-beam plates

I've also done a throttle pedal mod to improve heel-toe that I'll test out this spring. It changes the pedal pivot point. If it works, I'll publish on the forum or submit for the HTB.

Finally in the process of relocating the battery to the rear passenger smuggler's box combining the Haibeck kit with a SPA 6-pole cutoff switch that keeps factory wiring to the engine area mostly intact. The SPA 6-pole switch prevents engine run-on but protects the alternator though a ground. I'll submit that to HTB soon.

Tnova

Wow sounds like you are going to have a beast! I'll definitely post a follow up to my upcoming track day. I'll try to get some video, GPS data too and will give my impressions on the brakes/pads. I'm interested in your heel/toe mod, as I have an "auto-blip" system installed on my e46(my main track car) which works great, but I'm having to re-learn how to do it myself on the Z - and I was never a pro at it to begin with... I'd install a similar system on this car, but it only works with electronic throttle's so no can do...

Funny/pathetic story about my decision to go to 3.73 on the rear: When I bought the car the seller told me he had changed the rear end to something suitable for the drag strip, I swear he said 4.55. After getting the car home and cleaning it out I found a couple 1/8 mile time slips, so I assumed the 4.55 was still on there. Separately, at idle the tach read about 1200rpm, so I spent many hours searching for a vacuum leak. I never found it, but noticed the butterflies in the throttle body weren't completely closing, so I sent it off to Marc Haibeck for a rebuild. This helped somewhat, though it was still reading a little high but close enough to be within normal parameters. Now, back to the gearing, assuming I'd fixed the leak, I started to pay close attention to the Tach while driving, and based on that, I did the math (speed vs. RPM) I was confident it was a 4.55 rear, which I did not want for road course driving as it would put me in overdrive at track speeds. After some research It was a close call between a 4.09 and 3.73, but based on the layout of the track I go to most (practically exclusively) I decided to go with 3.73. So I shipped the whole car to m Haibeck to do the re-gear. the day after he got it, he called me with some odds and ends that he found wrong with the car, one of them being that the Tach was "comically wrong". Upon hearing this, I asked him to check the gearing, lo and behold the previous owner had re-installed the Lingenfelter 4.09 before selling me the car! Had I known this I would have just kept it as it was and never even sent the car all the way to Chicago for an expensive re-gear! Since it was already there and I had a *slight* preference for the 3.73 vs. 4.09 I had him make the change anyway. In the end it all worked out because Marc found a few other minor issues, removed the secondaries, gave it a new tune, obviously fixed the tach, and tidied up some issues in the engine bay, but between the 2 way shipping of the car, the gearing change and everything else, it was a $6,000 expense/lesson I could have avoided most of if I had just verified the tach. That said, while expensive, it was almost worth it to have a LT5 expert like Marc go over the car, and I did end up with the 3.73 I truly wanted...

tl;dr - I am an idiot...


A couple questions for you:

1) Why did you feel the need to change calipers on the front? So far with the aggressive pads and the stock calipers I can pretty easily lock the wheels/get into the abs at just about any speed if I so choose - at least on the street - haven't been to the track yet...


2) What's the benefit of moving the battery? I've considered replacing the battery with a 40+ lb lighter lithium ion unit, but with no way to corner balance the car I am afraid to throw off the balance. (I did this in my e46 -which is stripped and pretty light - where the battery sits right over the passenger rear tire, That car has an open diff and it was so unbalanced the rear passenger tire would practically come off the ground in a fast right hander and "one wheel peel" with no power to the wheel that had traction... I ended up putting the stock, heavy battery back in...)


***I'm legitimately asking to learn, not questioning your choices***


Curt

[onethumb]

I the 6-piston setup should have a larger pad surface area. Larger surface area=better braking before lockup. Also a little better heat dissipation. I've had my eye on one of those kits.

[tnova]

Curt,
Interesting story on the gearing. The Zr-1 tach is notorious for being inaccurate. C'est la vie...


I'm a Haibeck fan. Pretty much everything I've done is in consult with Marc.


As for the brakes, it was my thought that after using softer compound pads that leave a mess on the wheels and brakes that I'd just go to a bigger caliper and a less aggressive pad to get the same results. When I ran a Spec 944 that didn't allow brake mods except braided lines and different pads the corrosion on the piston rubber was a real issue that we had to keep up with all the time. If my ZR-1 was track only, I'd probably just go with softer compound pads, but for a street car, I didn't want the dust everywhere and the corrosive remains on the rubber and urethane.


Battery movement was more a matter of choice, than not. I wanted the space where the battery was for the battery disconnect switch with a means to pull a cable without opening the hood. I've seen a few too many track incidences (electrical, not banging fenders) that warrant that comfort. I'm setting it up so the cable can be tucked away when not at the track. Going for a lighter battery does the same trick, probably better because you don't have the weight of long cables. In my track 911 the battery is forward of the left front wheel so with that weight and the driver weight on the same side, it was a corner balance nightmare. I replaced it with a 600 CCA AGM motorcycle battery and all is fine. Not something I can do on the ZR-1 because of all the electronics. On the Porsche all the battery does it prime the fuel, power to the computer, and start the engine and then the alternator takes over once running.


Tony - Tnova

[cbaclawski]

I the 6-piston setup should have a larger pad surface area. Larger surface area=better braking before lockup. Also a little better heat dissipation. I've had my eye on one of those kits.

Interesting, by better braking you mean easier to modulate? I'll have to research this, thanks...

Curt,
Interesting story on the gearing. The Zr-1 tach is notorious for being inaccurate. C'est la vie...


I'm a Haibeck fan. Pretty much everything I've done is in consult with Marc.


As for the brakes, it was my thought that after using softer compound pads that leave a mess on the wheels and brakes that I'd just go to a bigger caliper and a less aggressive pad to get the same results. When I ran a Spec 944 that didn't allow brake mods except braided lines and different pads the corrosion on the piston rubber was a real issue that we had to keep up with all the time. If my ZR-1 was track only, I'd probably just go with softer compound pads, but for a street car, I didn't want the dust everywhere and the corrosive remains on the rubber and urethane.


Battery movement was more a matter of choice, than not. I wanted the space where the battery was for the battery disconnect switch with a means to pull a cable without opening the hood. I've seen a few too many track incidences (electrical, not banging fenders) that warrant that comfort. I'm setting it up so the cable can be tucked away when not at the track. Going for a lighter battery does the same trick, probably better because you don't have the weight of long cables. In my track 911 the battery is forward of the left front wheel so with that weight and the driver weight on the same side, it was a corner balance nightmare. I replaced it with a 600 CCA AGM motorcycle battery and all is fine. Not something I can do on the ZR-1 because of all the electronics. On the Porsche all the battery does it prime the fuel, power to the computer, and start the engine and then the alternator takes over once running.


Tony - Tnova

+1 Marc is great, and knows these cars like nobody else. (literally nobody)

Interesting on the battery disconnect switch, why wouldn't you want that in easy reach of the driver rather than outside the car? Or do you have both? I've never built or owned a true "race legal" car, nor do I really expect to.(read: I will almost certainly at some point) I'm just a Track day enthusiast, occasional time trial-er... (though I am pretty competitive against myself trying to better my previous times)

I figure I'll sooner than later go to a coilover type suspension setup so I can at least balance it for any weight reduction mods I might do.


I feel like this car has some "classic character" that I don't want to ruin by going full race car on it, but still want to get the best track manners/safety I can while maintaining its cool originality...

[tnova]

Yes, braking modulation, trail braking, and amount of braking force also.


On the race car I have both external and internal kill (as well as fire suppression system pulls). There are some organizations that have rules such as NHRA and the General Competition Regulations that require an external battery disconnect (NHRA if you relocate the battery). On the ZR-1 I won't have an internal kill except the key/ignition. Just as you said, I don't want to kill the classic character of the car so I too don't want to go too far in modifications. I'm holding off on coil overs for now though I do want to get the shocks rebuilt and revalved. I'd really like to find a way to modify the sway bar ends to get some adjustability. Both the shocks and sway bar ends will have to wait for $$$.
Tony - Tnova