Collector Car update

[lfalzarano]

http://fortune.com/2018/10/01/collector-classic-car-auction-sale/

Cars 25 and older are appreciating despite some pundits.


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[spork2367]

http://fortune.com/2018/10/01/collector-classic-car-auction-sale/

Cars 25 and older are appreciating despite some pundits.

The problem is, that blanket statement doesn't cover every vehicle...1990 and 1995 ZR1 for comparison.

Also, I don't think the article was trying to paint a rosy picture of the collector car market like you seemed to interpret...

"These astronomical figures, however, mask an underlying softness in the classic car market. According to analysis by CarGurus, an online marketplace, all cars 25 years old or older rose in price more than 60% in the past three years, but just 2.9% in the past 12 months. The Historic Automobile Group Index, which measures rare collectible cars, is up just 0.05% so far in 2018. (Even with a slow start to the year, the S&P 500 is up 8.5% year to date.)"

[lfalzarano]

No disagreement about our cars, but I think many have bought them as an investment and not as a car enthusiast. Over the past years, many sales are of investors moving on and short selling. JMHO & observations being on this forum.


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[spork2367]

No disagreement about our cars, but I think many have bought them as an investment and not as a car enthusiast. Over the past years, many sales are of investors moving on and short selling. JMHO & observations being on this forum.


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Agreed. However because enthusiasts tend to be even more picky, I think prices are going to continue to drop. Especially on cars that have been driven (20k+ mileage).

[lfalzarano]

The key is to keep your car original and enjoy it while you can still drive and find good gas!

Our time will come. Like the stock market, everything has a down turn. Why would a car investor keep ZR-1, when they can be making a bundle in the stock market. They’re unloading fast to get on the stock market boom. They’ll be back to burn some cash on a great car like a ZR-1.


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[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Lou,


I can make the following market predictions knowing that they are absolutely correct and make them with 100% certainty.


ZR-1's will go up in value.................


or


ZR-1's will go down in value..............


or



ZR-1 values will remain unchanged.




Or



ZR-1's will become completely worthless.




Regardless; Their value to their owners however, will continue to rise over time.
So no need to lose a minute's sleep over it.



:cheers:
Marty

[spork2367]

The key is to keep your car original and enjoy it while you can still drive and find good gas!

Our time will come. Like the stock market, everything has a down turn. Why would a car investor keep ZR-1, when they can be making a bundle in the stock market. They’re unloading fast to get on the stock market boom. They’ll be back to burn some cash on a great car like a ZR-1.


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I agree with keeping the car original if an owner wants to hope to maintain any value.

I'm not sure where you're going with the gas comment. The gas would have to be genuinely terrible to really affect the car.

I don't think our time will come. There is no reason the ZR-1 should have a downturn when their supercar brethren like the 911, NSX, and Supras have gained huge value in the same span of time. There is no reason the ZR-1 should lag behind. And there have been no shortage of good articles about them in the last 3 years, on top of the connection with the new ZR1s.

I think the cars will keep up with inflation and accrue some minor value above that, but I think their time to shine for the foreseeable future has passed. Maybe 50 years from now... They are unfortunately, an electro-mechanical marvel wrapped in a ho hum body. The C4 is without question the least popular Corvette body style. It doesn't have the iconic body style of the 911 or the revolutionary style of the NSX, or even the Italian Pininfarina styling of the 308/328.

I think that's its Achilles heel.

[lfalzarano]

I’m not losing sleep over this, but I am sure that ZR-1 prices will pick up in the next 2-7 years and will be ridiculously high priced in 23 years.

My basis is looking at C3 values after 50 years. Even if you look at collector car indexes, most are not skyrocket you get than 1985 with exceptions for the Porsche and Ferrari cars.

So keep your Z polished and in good running order.

I think I will have exceeded my expiration date before the ZR-1 skyrockets in price. My heirs will appreciate that I keep it in great shape. But until then I intend to take it out for some short but spirited drives. The Perma-Grin! [emoji16]

Marty, I only lose sleep when something breaks, like a water pump, radiator, or AC. I start counting $ signs to fall asleep! I can’t stand not to have it running as good as when I bought it!

Spork I can’t recall the number of Testarossa’s, NSX’s, 308’s & 911’s, 928’s & C5’s I’ve smoked on the highway. [emoji41]


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[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

I’m not losing sleep over this, but I am sure that ZR-1 prices will pick up in the next 2-7 years and will be ridiculously high priced in 23 years.

My basis is looking at C3 values after 50 years. Even if you look at collector car indexes, most are not skyrocket you get than 1985 with exceptions for the Porsche and Ferrari cars.

So keep your Z polished and in good running order.

I think I will have exceeded my expiration date before the ZR-1 skyrockets in price. My heirs will appreciate that I keep it in great shape. But until then I intend to take it out for some short but spirited drives.

Marty, I only lose sleep when something breaks, like a water pump, radiator, or AC. I start counting $ signs to fall asleep! I can’t stand not to have it running as good as when I bought it!

Spork I can’t recall the number of Testarossa’s, NSX’s, 308’s & 911’s, 928’s & C5’s I’ve smoked on the highway. [emoji41]


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I lost more sleep over the cost of parts for a low mile CL550 Coupe.
Parts that had not even broken yet, and might never.
Say bye-bye MB.
Hello another Vette!!!




:thumbsup:


:cheers:
Marty

[Meanmyz]

I think the cars will keep up with inflation and accrue some minor value above that, but I think their time to shine for the foreseeable future has passed. Maybe 50 years from now... They are unfortunately, an electro-mechanical marvel wrapped in a ho hum body. The C4 is without question the least popular Corvette body style. It doesn't have the iconic body style of the 911 or the revolutionary style of the NSX, or even the Italian Pininfarina styling of the 308/328.

I think that's its Achilles heel.


I take exception to this last paragraph. There is nothing wrong with the C4 body style. It is actually my favorite. I may be in the minority with that statement, but I don't care. When I was a kid growing up in the 80's, I looked at the C4's style overall as Chevrolet stating "hey, we are back, and this is a serious sports car". Serious as opposed to highly exaggerated body lines and the view that Corvette had almost become a "caricature of itself"...and that the owner was a beer belly who wore an open shirt with gold chains.


I think C4s are beautiful cars and at that time in history, I think we needed a "lets get back to business" style. Not a cartoon car.


Now, don't flame me, as over time, I became a great admirer of the C3 and other Corvette body styles as well, but I think the C4 has done well.


Yes, if the stylists would have made the ZR-1 more individualistic, that certainly and no doubt would have helped. The problem is that there were ALOT of C4's made. This unfortunately waters down the ZR-1. And even if Corvette engineers and stylists did have their act together, a lot of other cars during the time WERE truly ho hum.


It doesn't help the C4 that most of them seen cars out on the road...the ones that make most of the public aware of the C4 have been driven into the ground and look it.

[onethumb]

I take exception to this last paragraph. There is nothing wrong with the C4 body style. It is actually my favorite. I may be in the minority with that statement, but I don't care. When I was a kid growing up in the 80's, I looked at the C4's style overall as Chevrolet stating "hey, we are back, and this is a serious sports car". Serious as opposed to highly exaggerated body lines and the view that Corvette had almost become a "caricature of itself"...and that the owner was a beer belly who wore an open shirt with gold chains.


As someone from the same generation, I agree 100%. The C4 design has aged well.

When I decided to add a Corvette to my collection, I honestly expected to buy a C5 ZO6 or a C3 resto-mod. I only looked at a C4 Z because it was at a local classic car dealer, and I was in the area.

I was quite surprised at how well the design had aged, having not seen one in quite some time. So much so, that I knew I had to get a C4 Z (but certainly not the one in the dealer, as it was a mess!).

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Look at a C-4 carefully, and you will see that it is one of the most faithful at keeping so many touches of earlier generation cars within it's, at the time, revolutionary re-design.
Casual lookers may get the taillights, but miss the many other tributes tha were incorporated into the design.
Just as the C-3 was a game changer form the previous generation, the C-4 was even more so, and yes the C-5 was just as much also, but each kept some special similarities.

C-6, more evolutionary, than revolutionary.
The C-7 simply looks like it came from another planet, but again, look carefully and the tributes are there as well.
C-4's likely will find more appeal as they age.
:cheers:

Marty

[spork2367]

I take exception to this last paragraph. There is nothing wrong with the C4 body style. It is actually my favorite. I may be in the minority with that statement, but I don't care. When I was a kid growing up in the 80's, I looked at the C4's style overall as Chevrolet stating "hey, we are back, and this is a serious sports car". Serious as opposed to highly exaggerated body lines and the view that Corvette had almost become a "caricature of itself"...and that the owner was a beer belly who wore an open shirt with gold chains.


I think C4s are beautiful cars and at that time in history, I think we needed a "lets get back to business" style. Not a cartoon car.


Now, don't flame me, as over time, I became a great admirer of the C3 and other Corvette body styles as well, but I think the C4 has done well.


Yes, if the stylists would have made the ZR-1 more individualistic, that certainly and no doubt would have helped. The problem is that there were ALOT of C4's made. This unfortunately waters down the ZR-1. And even if Corvette engineers and stylists did have their act together, a lot of other cars during the time WERE truly ho hum.


It doesn't help the C4 that most of them seen cars out on the road...the ones that make most of the public aware of the C4 have been driven into the ground and look it.

I agree with the statement about the lack of individual characteristics. You and I can appreciate that wider flare in the rear, but that's lost of even most Corvette people.

Unfortunately, if you took a vote of ALL Corvette owners tomorrow, for most loved body style, the C4 would lose...by a lot.

I like it better than the C3 by a lot and probably better than the C5 by a little, but we're the exception.