2 quick questions

[Corbusa]

Gents , Im wanting to get a couple things done on the Z before winter. my questions are ( I havent changed anti freeze in a long time) when I drain it and refill it will I need to worry about a air lock ?? if so how do I fix that? ,

2nd I think I should replace the brake fluid.. Should I stay with dot3 or go to 4 and if I go with 4 can I just keep bleeding them out and flushing until it has 4 in it? Thanks

[Ccmano]

Here’s the instructions from Marc Haibeck for filling the coolant. Jacking up the passenger side of the car has always worked for me. This last time I made the tool he suggests and it worked like a charm.

http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20Web/articles/Filling%20the%20Cooling%20System%20Version%203.pdf

On the brake fluid, unless your racing the car somehow Dot 3 fluid is more than sufficient. However Dot 3 and 4 are compatible. The key to flushing the fluid is not letting air into the system at the master cylinder. You don’t want an air bubble to get to the ABS unit. A pressure bleeder is your best bet.
H
:cheers:

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

DO NOT MIX 3 and 4!
You may change to 4, but only after a complete drain, flush, then fill.
If you cannot do that, then stay with 3.
Mixing can accelerate corrosion.


As for coolant change.
Use green.
find the sticky that describes how to fill the cooling system, but you should be ok.
Try it first, and just monitor the level and what is going on, and you should know if it needs to be burped.
Marty

[lfalzarano]

Marc Haibeck - ZR-1 Specialisy

Has your answers
http://zr1specialist.com/HAT%20Web/articles/Filling%20the%20Cooling%20System%20Version%203.pdf

Coolant should be changed every 3 years as a rule.

DOT3 is your basic go to fluid. DOT4 has a slightly higher boiling point. DOT5 is silicone based. Big effort is draining and flushing out all the non-silicone fluids. I read a few years back that it was not recommended, but can’t find it.

In any event, there are many more qualified experts on the forum that will chime in with their extensive knowledge.


Lou

[Ccmano]

DO NOT MIX 3 and 4!
You may change to 4, but only after a complete drain, flush, then fill.
If you cannot do that, then stay with 3.
Mixing can accelerate corrosion.


As for coolant change.
Use green.
find the sticky that describes how to fill the cooling system, but you should be ok.
Try it first, and just monitor the level and what is going on, and you should know if it needs to be burped.
Marty

Marty I have to disagree on Dot 3 and Dot 4 being incompatible. It’s Dot 5 that is not compatible. Dot 4 simply has a higher boiling point but they are essentially the same. Here’s just one article to support that,

https://blog.amsoil.com/whats-the-difference-between-dot-3-and-dot-4-brake-fluid/
H

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

I once believed as you do, regarding 3 and 4, and certainly agree with you on 3or 4 versus 5.
However, I have read a number of articles that indeed are counter to the Amsoil advice on the 3 with 4.
Here is one of them.
https://www.reference.com/vehicles/can-mix-dot3-dot4-brake-fluid-259a6460a6cca209


I therefore drain, flush and fill.
You mileage may vary.
Marty

[lfalzarano]

You guys are the best!!


Lou

[spork2367]

I once believed as you do, regarding 3 and 4, and certainly agree with you on 3or 4 versus 5.
However, I have read a number of articles that indeed are counter to the Amsoil advice on the 3 with 4.
Here is one of them.
https://www.reference.com/vehicles/can-mix-dot3-dot4-brake-fluid-259a6460a6cca209


I therefore drain, flush and fill.
You mileage may vary.
Marty

That simply isn't true. And the reference you posted is just some question answer page that any joe, dick or harry can respond to regardless of credentials or knowledge.

Mixing the two will have ZERO effect on corrosion in the system.

Dot 5.1 is also compatible with 3 and 4. Not Dot 5. Why did they number them like that? No clue.

3, 4, and 5.1 are all glycol based. 5 is silicon based and not compatible with any others.

Obviously mixing any higher number with a lower number negates a lot of the benefit as the effective boiling point is lowered an unknown amount. And a flush is always good every 10 years or so as the additive packages that prevent corrosion break down.

http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/brake-fluid-dot-3-4-5-5-1-faq/

https://www.epicbleedsolutions.com/resources/faq/difference-between-dot4-and-dot51-brake-fluid/

[Corbusa]

Thanks for the replies .. I'm not on the site much- I work too many hours and usually only come on when I need something ( I know I'm wrong - sorry ) at least I'm not a pest :)
I'm trying to get and stay healthy ( its been a couple year fight ) But I'm getting there, I'm also trying to get the house situated and chores out the way .. sell a vehicle or two - So I have less to do- not enough hours.. Then do what I can do to the Z myself and let Pete do the rest :) .
I'll read the links and get'er done.. I'll wait to switch fluids to Dot 4 if / when I change the master cylinder .. and start fresh .. I need to order the speed bleeders asap and get that done too ..
I thought of selling the Z but just cant do it .. Thanks to you guys and helping makes me keep it . You save people a lot of time having to search for answers. You are Greatly Appreciated !!!!

[Corbusa]

If anyone lives in TN or close by and tears down the engine or does any lengthy work and wants a hand - YELL - I'd come help just to see how and what .. I am mechanically inclined ( I have built automatic transmissions and done some supercharging _ but its been years ago) .. The LT5 kind of intimidates me, due to I don't have funds to repair any mistakes - even simple stuff could be expensive to fix - Plus the time factor of a redo's.. I don't like to make ignorant mistakes .. I'm an electrician and log home builder by trade - and The same applies to it .. When a Log is installed and wires are pulled - Its Done .... Like doing surgery .. I don't want to do something twice for a dumb reason ..BUT I really do appreciate you guys....
I am working on a land deal to build some off grid cabins - If it happens then I can get the Z upgraded like I'm wanting .. Thanks again, brothers...

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

That simply isn't true. And the reference you posted is just some question answer page that any joe, dick or harry can respond to regardless of credentials or knowledge.

Mixing the two will have ZERO effect on corrosion in the system.

Dot 5.1 is also compatible with 3 and 4. Not Dot 5. Why did they number them like that? No clue.

3, 4, and 5.1 are all glycol based. 5 is silicon based and not compatible with any others.

Obviously mixing any higher number with a lower number negates a lot of the benefit as the effective boiling point is lowered an unknown amount. And a flush is always good every 10 years or so as the additive packages that prevent corrosion break down.

http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/brake-fluid-dot-3-4-5-5-1-faq/

https://www.epicbleedsolutions.com/resources/faq/difference-between-dot4-and-dot51-brake-fluid/



Who do I thank for the info, Tom, Dick or Harry, I think they all work for brake and front end or amsoil.
You (and they ) may certainly mix, feel free and have at it.


I will drain, flush, and fill, ESPECIALLY on someone else's car.


Maybe you are right.
But maybe you are not.
Why chance it over at most, an hour of labor and $10.00 of fluid.
Not a chance I take, so why would I recommend it to someone else?

[Corbusa]

Post # 666 ut oh :)

[Corbusa]

Just thinking ( scary huh?) , but if some are saying you can mix and others say No ( maybe they had problems ) Could it be maybe an issue b/t brands and not just the type? as for me I'll wait until I switch the master cyl etc ...

[32valvZ]

I never have mixed as a rule... just silly? maybe... just me... I suppose. As soon as I see my reservoirs getting dark, I use a turkey baster and change it with fresh fluid.... overkill? maybe... BUT, cheap to do and takes all of 5-10 minutes....

[spork2367]

Who do I thank for the info, Tom, Dick or Harry, I think they all work for brake and front end or amsoil.
You (and they ) may certainly mix, feel free and have at it.


I will drain, flush, and fill, ESPECIALLY on someone else's car.


Maybe you are right.
But maybe you are not.
Why chance it over at most, an hour of labor and $10.00 of fluid.
Not a chance I take, so why would I recommend it to someone else?

The website you linked is just some generic pass through website like quora. You have no idea where that info came from.

It's chemistry. I am right. It's not an opinion based argument. Some companies don't even distinguish between 3 and 4 on their bottles anymore. But I'm sure Valvoline doesn't have any decent chemists around...

And a complete flush is WAY more than an hour. How do you get the fluid out of the bottom of a caliper without removing the caliper and turning it upside down? So your removing all four calipers, disconnecting the hoses, turning them upside down...Just refilling and bleeding the system after you've drained it is going to take an hour.

How are you draining an ABS pump?

If all your doing is running 1-2 quarts of fresh brake fluid through, you are leaving 30% of the old fluid in the system.

Just thinking ( scary huh?) , but if some are saying you can mix and others say No ( maybe they had problems ) Could it be maybe an issue b/t brands and not just the type? as for me I'll wait until I switch the master cyl etc ...

There are standards this is all made to. No secret ingredients that would interact with each other. The issue is misinformation gets spread across the web like wildfire.

I never have mixed as a rule... just silly? maybe... just me... I suppose. As soon as I see my reservoirs getting dark, I use a turkey baster and change it with fresh fluid.... overkill? maybe... BUT, cheap to do and takes all of 5-10 minutes....

So that reservoir constitutes maybe 50% of the system volume. And very little of that fluid is exchanged with what's in the rest of the system. You are just having a minor push/pull effect when you press and release the pedal. The purpose of the reservoir is just as an emergency storage system and to make up for minor expansion and contraction due to temperature changes. You could drain all but a 1/16th of an inch out of your reservoir and your brakes would continue to work just fine.


So while what you're doing may make you feel better, it has no real effect on the overall quality of the fluid in your brake system.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

The website you linked is just some generic pass through website like quora. You have no idea where that info came from.

It's chemistry. I am right. It's not an opinion based argument. Some companies don't even distinguish between 3 and 4 on their bottles anymore. But I'm sure Valvoline doesn't have any decent chemists around...

And a complete flush is WAY more than an hour. How do you get the fluid out of the bottom of a caliper without removing the caliper and turning it upside down? So your removing all four calipers, disconnecting the hoses, turning them upside down...Just refilling and bleeding the system after you've drained it is going to take an hour.

How are you draining an ABS pump?

If all your doing is running 1-2 quarts of fresh brake fluid through, you are leaving 30% of the old fluid in the system.



There are standards this is all made to. No secret ingredients that would interact with each other. The issue is misinformation gets spread across the web like wildfire.



So that reservoir constitutes maybe 50% of the system volume. And very little of that fluid is exchanged with what's in the rest of the system. You are just having a minor push/pull effect when you press and release the pedal. The purpose of the reservoir is just as an emergency storage system and to make up for minor expansion and contraction due to temperature changes. You could drain all but a 1/16th of an inch out of your reservoir and your brakes would continue to work just fine.


So while what you're doing may make you feel better, it has no real effect on the overall quality of the fluid in your brake system.


Again, thank you tom, dick,and harry.
You are an unimpeachable source, at least in your mind, but not to me.

As I said you do what makes you happy, although that seems quite the impossibility.

[spork2367]

Again, thank you tom, dick,and harry.
You are an unimpeachable source, at least in your mind, but not to me.

As I said you do what makes you happy, although that seems quite the impossibility.


I'm not the source, the manufacturers are. But I'm sure you're right and that every major brake fluid manufacturer is wrong or lying and that your totally anonymous source with no citation or known origin is correct.

It's not like anyone can look up a list of the ingredients in any brake fluid manufactured...oh wait, they can, it's called an SDS.

Again, this isn't about anyone's opinion, it's about the chemistry and what the manufacturers say based on that chemistry.

The only reason I've ever seen a manufacturer recommend against mixing is because putting a higher grade in with a lower grade negates the benefit buying the higher grade because you lose the advantage of the higher boiling point.