C7 ZR1 already upstaged? Maybe-maybe not

[Hib Halverson]

Dodge announced yesterday that an uprated version of the Hellcat engine, rated at 797-hp, will be released in the "Challenger SRT Hellcat Redeye". "Redeye"...makes me think of someone with a bad hangover.

Ironically, I just submitted a story to Corvette Magazine on the new LT5 and in researching that story, I interviewed Jordan Lee, the top V8 engine guy at GM Propulsion Systems, and he told me that during the early planning for the new LT5 that the engine, "...had to be better than the Hellcat."

Well...for several months it was.

But then, 4G Zroners ought not worry too much because even the portly C7 ZR1 weighs significantly less than a Challenger and handles a ton better...that's why you never see one of those fat-assed Mopars setting records at Nurburgring or VIR.

I told Jordan in a later email that some forum posts claim that just installing the GM Performance air box and trading the second set of cats for an X-pipe section bumps the Gen 5 LT5 to just shy of 800-hp. He didn't agree or disagree with me but said he thought hot rodders could make "..four figures". 1000-hp? I guess that's doable with just tuning, a pulley and exhaust, as long as you're willing to give up warranty coverage and some durability.

What does everyone think about the new ZR1, anyway.

Couple weeks ago I emailed Harlan Charles and asked him, of the orders so far, what were the rarest colors. He said the "Ceramic Gray Matrix" (another weird color name) and, strangely, Corvette Racing Yellow.

I think this one is pretty cool

[Vette73]

I finally seen one up close at a car show a few weeks ago and I was impressed....I know most think its gaudy but all the flares and bulges all serve a purpose...

The power and handling for a production car is second to none in my opinion..

[Tripler]

Fat Assed Mopars ,,,
Made my day Hib LOL !!! And so so true ...

;)

[Paul Workman]

Keeping my powder dry, Hib.

As a follower of automotive trends and engineering breakthroughs for over 50 years, my sense of it is the C7 platform ZR1 marks the high water mark for the front engine, rear wheel drive platform, AND, for that matter, it's pushrod mill too.

And, tell me Hib: Why in the name of everything that a Corvette is and does so well are readers subjected to sophomoric tripe talking about PEAK horsepower and 1/4 mile ETs as somehow "THEE" measure of what determines when and for how long a car is KING OF THE HILL?

So, since you asked, I don't get warm and fuzzy over another warmed over front engine, RWD (C7 ZR1) concept. It's reign, if there is one, will be a short one. I'm looking and watching the development of the mid engine, DOHC hybrid C8 as the platform to usher the next breakthrough in automotive superiority - just as the C4 ZR-1 did at its introduction. And, when that mid-engine, DOHC hybrid is upon us, you can bet the majority of car rag writers will be in a sweat to be the first carry the news about 1/4 mile times and (peak) horsepower to describe and define their take on the quintessential essence of Corvette for 'all readers'.

Wanna bet me?

[EvanZR1]

A coworker just bought one (believe it's #56). Since I got him into Vettes (convinced him to buy a C6 Grand Sport a few years ago), he very happily gave me a ride in it. It's definitely an impressive car, handles really well, stops extremely well, rides great, and of course there's the power... VERY impressive. He got his with the 8-speed auto, and it puts the power down very well, and accelerates like a fiend. I don't know if it is quite to the level of the '13 GS I had with a blower that was putting down 700RWHP, but it's very close.

My coworker loves the car, and I have to say I'm very happy for him. It's his YOLO (you only live once) car.

For me though, I wouldn't trade my 91 for one. Especially since I'm doing a 392 build. I don't expect to be as fast as a C7 ZR1, or even a C6 ZR1 (although I might be closer to that one), but I enjoy the "rawness" of the C4 ZR-1 too much to give it up. I might pick up a C7Z06 to use as a daily driver in a year or two when the prices really drop when the C8 comes out, but the C4 ZR-1 is such a rare care and is a unique driving experience that's lost in modern cars.

[Z51JEFF]

Not a C7 fan but do like seeing ZR1 back out in the public and the new grey,if it’s the solid grey with a touch of metallic,HATE IT! It looks nasty on the Mopar and pretty much the same on the ZR1. Why would anybody want a car painted a solid grey?

[XfireZ51]

I saw one up close at a restaurant on Big Beaver Rd. Beautiful color w the HUGE carbon wing. Love the wheels. Having said that, it is clearly a purpose built car. Fierce looking. Any comparison to a Challenger is like "cheese and chalk". Aesthetics totally secondary. I would grab the keys in a NY second if given the opportunity.

[conesare2seconds]

I like the wide body C7s and think the ZR-1 is very cool. To me, Corvette will always be front engine/rwd but I’m not hating on the idea of a mid-engine car. However, I think it will be a slow seller. No matter how fast it is, no one who can spend a hundred grand is looking for the “world’s best performance bargain” super car. And the buyer with the means for a Porsche, Aston, Ferrari and so on will never buy a Chevrolet.

[Hib Halverson]

Keeping my powder dry, Hib.

As a follower of automotive trends and engineering breakthroughs for over 50 years, my sense of it is the C7 platform ZR1 marks the high water mark for the front engine, rear wheel drive platform, AND, for that matter, it's pushrod mill too.

And, tell me Hib: Why in the name of everything that a Corvette is and does so well are readers subjected to sophomoric tripe talking about PEAK horsepower and 1/4 mile ETs as somehow "THEE" measure of what determines when and for how long a car is KING OF THE HILL?

So, since you asked, I don't get warm and fuzzy over another warmed over front engine, RWD (C7 ZR1) concept. It's reign, if there is one, will be a short one. I'm looking and watching the development of the mid engine, DOHC hybrid C8 as the platform to usher the next breakthrough in automotive superiority - just as the C4 ZR-1 did at its introduction. And, when that mid-engine, DOHC hybrid is upon us, you can bet the majority of car rag writers will be in a sweat to be the first carry the news about 1/4 mile times and (peak) horsepower to describe and define their take on the quintessential essence of Corvette for 'all readers'.

Wanna bet me?

Not.

My guess is when the performance version of the mid-engine car arrives, it will have 500-600-hp worth of 5.5L DOHC tt driving the rear wheels and 200-300-hp of electric motors driving the front wheels.

The only issue that has me concerned is there has never been any mid-engine car with enough cargo room for long road trips. The is one characteristic the front engine configuration has going for it.

My guess is the 4G ZR1 will be the last large displacement, front motor Corvette. Also, I think the car will end up fairly rare. The 2G ZR-1s lasted six model years. My guess is the 4G ZR1 will go one maybe two model years. About 500 cars have been build so far.

[ssrszz4]

The Dodge is not even in the same ballpark.

Sent from my XT1585 using ZR-1 Net Registry mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)

[AnthonyGS]

It’s insane the power levels cars make today. It’s also insane how much they weigh. I love my ZR1 but my 400-500 lb lighter P car is way more fun in corners. Both cars can go 170, but they sure do it in different ways.

I long for lighter cars.... I’m thinking my Miata build may be called “light is right.” I’m only shooting for 250 whp in it but its almost a half ton lighter than my other cars. If I go insane I can up the power in it. Why a Miata? I’m not scared to hurt it like my ZR or P car.

[Hib Halverson]

It’s insane the power levels cars make today. It’s also insane how much they weigh. I love my ZR1 but my 400-500 lb lighter P car is way more fun in corners. Both cars can go 170, but they sure do it in different ways.

I long for lighter cars.... I’m thinking my Miata build may be called “light is right.” I’m only shooting for 250 whp in it but its almost a half ton lighter than my other cars. If I go insane I can up the power in it. Why a Miata? I’m not scared to hurt it like my ZR or P car.

Jus' curious...

What do you do to the engine in a Miata to make 250 at the tire?

[AnthonyGS]

Jus' curious...

What do you do to the engine in a Miata to make 250 at the tire?

You can go with a substantial turbo and lots of tuning or a supercharger. The issue then is torque. These setups make enough that the factory drive trains will break eventually. LS swaps don’t have that issue at even 400 whp.

The route I’m strongly considerimg is using a Honda K series engine. From the factory they made 200hp at 7,000ish rpm. In a Miata you have to go to aftermarket intake, throttle body and exhaust. The swap specialist makes a nice header too and you get a custom tune. Reliably guys are seeing 220-230 rwhp at 8,000 rpm. A little head work and cams you can get over 250whp. Honda’s also love turbos but then you need V8 rear ends and a stronger transmission.

Another company has pioneered the GM based ecotec 2.4 swap too. It’s easiest and a big step up from Mazda power (50 hp) or so, but the Honda engine is the best 4 money can buy. At $800 for another used Honda engine I won’t be scared to beat on it either. Car should be about 2300 lbs with over 200 to the rear wheels after the swap. A few hard parts and tuning it’ll be 250ish.

[spork2367]

Jus' curious...

What do you do to the engine in a Miata to make 250 at the tire?

Throw it out and put in a chevy 5.3.

[AnthonyGS]

Throw it out and put in a chevy 5.3.

That works and usually makes way more to the rear tires. If it were less expensive and didn’t require full trans tunnel surgery, I’d go this route myself.

[G-Sting]

What does everyone think about the new ZR1, anyway.



The new ZR1 is proving itself on the track at a number of venues. However, what I've begun to notice at this season's Car & Coffee and Car Shows, is it may have woken up a younger generation to the ZR-1. I've had a number of pleasant conversations about it with 18-30 years olds. They've been very excited when they see the 'old' ZR-1, C-4. I've not experienced this in previous years.


In any case, I LIKE IT.


At a show this weekend was one of the first ZR-1s sold in the USA...

[Hib Halverson]

Throw it out and put in a chevy 5.3.


Better yet, use the all-aluminum version of the 5.3.

[spork2367]

Better yet, use the all-aluminum version of the 5.3.

The L33. Absolutely!

[WARP TEN]

Not.

My guess is when the performance version of the mid-engine car arrives, it will have 500-600-hp worth of 5.5L DOHC tt driving the rear wheels and 200-300-hp of electric motors driving the front wheels.

The only issue that has me concerned is there has never been any mid-engine car with enough cargo room for long road trips. The is one characteristic the front engine configuration has going for it.

My guess is the 4G ZR1 will be the last large displacement, front motor Corvette. Also, I think the car will end up fairly rare. The 2G ZR-1s lasted six model years. My guess is the 4G ZR1 will go one maybe two model years. About 500 cars have been build so far.

I tend to agree with you Hib. On configuration, that is what the Formula 1 cars have--a hybrid gas/electric combination that is very powerful--although very complex. But I see F1 advances as indicators of the direction powertrains may go. And as the former owner of a 308 Ferrari and a 1974 DeTomaso Pantera, and even a rear engined Porsche C4, I certainly agree that neither of those mid engine cars had much luggage space. Although you could warm up your luggage nicely in the the engine compartments--on top of the engine in the Pantera and behind it in the 308. --Bob