Lumbar bladder question

[KILLSHOTS]

I looked on the scoring sheets on the NCRS website, and I see that they clearly look for functionality of the seat switches and adjustments, but it doesn't mention anything about the lumbar bags. Can anybody who's had his car Flighted confirm for me whether they care about the bags being able to inflate and hold air? I'm wondering how many cars there are out there whose original bags could possibly hold air?????


Thanks!

[Mystic ZR-1]

They'll definitely check out the lumbar air bags.
And, make sure your rear hatch goes ALL the way up by itself...
Good luck on that one....
Don't forget to ask how many ZR-1s have received Top Flights :-D

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

They'll definitely check out the lumbar air bags.
And, make sure your rear hatch goes ALL the way up by itself...
Good luck on that one....
Don't forget to ask how many ZR-1s have received Top Flights :-D



Absolutely correct on all counts.
They check for pump operation and that it holds air.
and don't forget the glove compartment door has to pop up on it's own.
and 1,000 other crazy things.
Marty

[KILLSHOTS]

Thanks guys. Crazy thing about the bladders. I mean, I wonder how many 28 year old Corvettes (even ones with only 400 miles) have bladders that hold air? I'm assuming that any car with working bags has had the seats torn apart at least once for replacement.

[Mystic ZR-1]

Oil up the latches on the storage compartments behind the seats.
They expect them to latch when dropped from about 6 inches
Also, know all the ins & outs of running the radio etc.
They also expect the CD player to work including ejecting the CD
One of my Bride's CDs has been in mine for years, and she hasn't forgotten about it....☹️

[KILLSHOTS]

Thanks for the tips, but haven't even bought the car yet. Still in the due diligence phase. If I buy it, the goal will be to perfect its flaws and have it Top Flighted, but my net cost has to be below a certain point or it just doesn't make sense to pull the trigger; I'm neither a dealer nor a big risk-taker.

Thanks again.

[TucsonZR1]

There is a Regional Judging Meet in Phoenix in May, have the owner get it Judged, you will have 10 Judges look it over. The owner must be a Member.

[Mr Blue]

Youtube has some how to's for fixing the seat bladders using replacement part from blood pressure cuffs. Something I have been thinking about. It doesn't look too difficult.

[-=Jeff=-]

yeah the early cars (pre-94) the bladders usually dry out and become several pieces..

I am sure you could fit the 94-96 bladders in there, for functionality.

Marty, how far up does the glove box door need to pop? curious on that one

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

yeah the early cars (pre-94) the bladders usually dry out and become several pieces..

I am sure you could fit the 94-96 bladders in there, for functionality.

Marty, how far up does the glove box door need to pop? curious on that one



The lid needs to fully extend open on it's own once it has been released, as I recall.
The drivers side W/S wiper must park correctly and yet not come in contact with the molding at the end of it's travel.


Now, it is also good to remember that the car MUST score a 94% or better to earn a Top Flight. Said differently, you can lose up to 270 of your 4500 points and still Top Flight. Further pursuits require a 97.5 minimum score, but even so, you could lose 112.5 points and still surpass the threshold.
I say that as a reminder not EVRYTHING has to be original and perfect.
My car was a DRM500 conversion done back in 1994. I left my coil-overs on, my springs off, my thicker stabilizer bars remained on, as did drilled and slotted rotors, shifter, Hurst knob, braided ss brake lines, other Rippie brake and suspension mods and more.
It was kind of funny when one of the judges asked where the springs were.
The first time none of us knew where to find the VIN derivative on the LT-5 block.
I even refused to remove the "Objects in Mirror are Losing" lettering from the OSRV mirrors or the minimum 93 Octane put on there by DRM, taking the small deducts instead.


So it depends what you want. If you want 99.9 you will need an original battery, correctly dated tires, valve-stem caps etc, etc,
If you want "Top Flight", you just need to properly manage your deductions.
I usually suggest doing a close by chapter meet; get judged; get your sheets, then get to work on improving what they found wrong.
Then go again, and further your journey and your scores.
Stop when you feel you have accomplished what you set our to do.


The goal is to have FUN, not become even more anal retentive or obsessed.


Good luck to all that go for it, but please make it FUN!
Marty

[Joelbbvette]

My 90 ZR-1 scored 98.1 first time at the Winter Regional in 2018. I agree with most all written above. My big hits were the AC Delco replacement battery, GSC tires, wiper heads (wrong style), one light bulb, scrapped up air dam aka spoiler and the fact that my passenger seat air pump worked but they did not feel the bladder inflated enough. Tire dates are NOT judged in this class. So you can do well but buy the judging manual and PV manual to help yourself.

Remember that the Flight judging is much easier (IMHO) than the Performance Verification where bladders and little things like that will cause you to fail. So you can still have a great Top Flight but PV is another story. My 94 Copper Convertible passed that on it's first attempt (so I have been there and done that, 60K mile car). It also has it's Dave Hill Award (with over 97 points at National) so it can be done.

So I say go for it and learn more about your car, I certainly did and like I said I have a Dave Hill Award.

[lfalzarano]

The lid needs to fully extend open on it's own once it has been released, as I recall.
The drivers side W/S wiper must park correctly and yet not come in contact with the molding at the end of it's travel.


Now, it is also good to remember that the car MUST score a 94% or better to earn a Top Flight. Said differently, you can lose up to 270 of your 4500 points and still Top Flight. Further pursuits require a 97.5 minimum score, but even so, you could lose 112.5 points and still surpass the threshold.
I say that as a reminder not EVRYTHING has to be original and perfect.
My car was a DRM500 conversion done back in 1994. I left my coil-overs on, my springs off, my thicker stabilizer bars remained on, as did drilled and slotted rotors, shifter, Hurst knob, braided ss brake lines, other Rippie brake and suspension mods and more.
It was kind of funny when one of the judges asked where the springs were.
The first time none of us knew where to find the VIN derivative on the LT-5 block.
I even refused to remove the "Objects in Mirror are Losing" lettering from the OSRV mirrors or the minimum 93 Octane put on there by DRM, taking the small deducts instead.


So it depends what you want. If you want 99.9 you will need an original battery, correctly dated tires, valve-stem caps etc, etc,
If you want "Top Flight", you just need to properly manage your deductions.
I usually suggest doing a close by chapter meet; get judged; get your sheets, then get to work on improving what they found wrong.
Then go again, and further your journey and your scores.
Stop when you feel you have accomplished what you set our to do.


The goal is to have FUN, not become even more anal retentive or obsessed.


Good luck to all that go for it, but please make it FUN!
Marty



The passenger side glove box door needs to be removed and the leatherette re-glued on the top edge, so it opens freely. Use two thin pieces of wood the length of the upper edge, glue the leatherette to the metal, then clamp on the wood on both sides along the top edge.

If the car had a lot of Sun, the foam under deteriorated and glue failed. I’m gluing mine now. It has to sit for 72 hours to cure properly.


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[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

P.S.
I have SEVEN ZR-1's, all 1995's, that are ready for Flight Judging today.
All include the ORIGINAL BATTERY (non-working of course), original tires, and, well let's just say EVERYTHING will score 100% for Originality, and just about the same for condition.
Serviced, with all PM complete.
Most with only a few hundred miles!
Turn Key Top Flight or Bloomington Gold.
Call for latest colors.

:cheers:
Marty

Marty Pinder
Owner
CONTE'S CORVETTES INC. ( a proud sponsor of the ZR-1 Net Registry )
Where Corvettes are our passion,
not just our business.
856-692-0087

www.contes.com (http://www.contes.com/)

[jrd1990zr1]

I hope this does not come across as arrogant, that is not my intent. This is solely for information and represents my opinion. I am a NCRS Master judge, just short of the 200 level. I have had ZR1s judged at Chapter, Regional and the National meet. All have Top Flights. The discussion about rear compartments latching, glove doors popping up a specific distance, rear hatches popping up all the way is the subjective opinion of the judge going over your car. If you purchase the judging manual for your MY car you will see that these operational requirements are not in the manual. My 1990 MY judging manual is silent on these requirements.

I suggest if a NCRS judge tells you something is required and it is not in the judging manual, you should question where the requirement comes from. If you were having a C-2 judged there are many judges with a lot of experience on this class of car. This is not the same for C-4s and especially ZR-1s. And many judges hold the operational aspects of a ZR-1 to a higher standard then required for a C-.2.

The C-4 team leader is a member of this forum, I'd ask that he provide some insight on where these "special" operational requirements come from. :cheers:

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

I hope this does not come across as arrogant, that is not my intent. This is solely for information and represents my opinion. I am a NCRS Master judge, just short of the 200 level. I have had ZR1s judged at Chapter, Regional and the National meet. All have Top Flights. The discussion about rear compartments latching, glove doors popping up a specific distance, rear hatches popping up all the way is the subjective opinion of the judge going over your car. If you purchase the judging manual for your MY car you will see that these operational requirements are not in the manual. My 1990 MY judging manual is silent on these requirements.

I suggest if a NCRS judge tells you something is required and it is not in the judging manual, you should question where the requirement comes from. If you were having a C-2 judged there are many judges with a lot of experience on this class of car. This is not the same for C-4s and especially ZR-1s. And many judges hold the operational aspects of a ZR-1 to a higher standard then required for a C-.2.

The C-4 team leader is a member of this forum, I'd ask that he provide some insight on where these "special" operational requirements come from. :cheers:


Well said!

Every judging event that I have attended, has always stressed a thorough review of the findings with each owner, BEFORE the owner signs off on the assessment. They have consistently asked if I believed that the deductions were warranted, fair and commensurate with the condition as presented.
I have never had cause to debate their assessment.
I never had points deducted that I, myself would not have deducted.
The final tally includes a conversation with the highest ranking NCRS official at the event.
That conversation has ALWAYS included a question of how confident was I with the judges evaluation of my car, specifically asking were there any areas that I had a question about, or a disagreement with the scoring..
There never have been any.
Having gone through this a number of times myself, and with many friends,
I can only add that as stressful as we sometimes become, if you instead tone down your level of apprehension, the entire process becomes far more fun.
I can vividly recall nearly every moment of my Regional judging event. Having done many chapter events, I actually enjoyed my Regional so much because I knew that the people judging my car were the toughest that ever would evaluate it, mostly all being national level judges, and my car made i!
How could I ever go to a non NCRS event afterwards and feel my car was so thoroughly and correctly evaluated?
Other accolades simply do not hold the esteem that I still have for those Top Flight Awards, with the exception of the Best in Show selected by Dave McClellan.
Make it FUN and it will be.
Use your first judging event as a source of a "punch list" for a path to a better score, and strive for fun rather than perfection.
In life, we should strive for excellence, not perfection.
My Top Flight awards don't have my score printed on them, or the deficiencies listed on the ribbon. They simply state "Top Flight"
I am pleased with that!
So pleased in fact, that I retired my New Jersey 1FUNZR1 plate and replaced it with NCRSZR1
I would guess that says it all.
Make it FUN!
:cheers:
Marty

[lfalzarano]

Well said


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[Z51JEFF]

I hope this does not come across as arrogant, that is not my intent. This is solely for information and represents my opinion. I am a NCRS Master judge, just short of the 200 level. I have had ZR1s judged at Chapter, Regional and the National meet. All have Top Flights. The discussion about rear compartments latching, glove doors popping up a specific distance, rear hatches popping up all the way is the subjective opinion of the judge going over your car. If you purchase the judging manual for your MY car you will see that these operational requirements are not in the manual. My 1990 MY judging manual is silent on these requirements.

How can there be judging on any givin subject when the rules aren’t written in stone? Sounds to me judging needs to be suspended until the NCRS gets the facts straight on all C4s and everybody’s on the same page. To the OP,my 91 @6000 miles I replaced the bladders,they had disintegrated into small pieces. Got a set of OEM bladders,hog rings and replaced the bladders. The only time I use them is to see if they still work.

[jrd1990zr1]

I looked on the scoring sheets on the NCRS website, and I see that they clearly look for functionality of the seat switches and adjustments, but it doesn't mention anything about the lumbar bags. Can anybody who's had his car Flighted confirm for me whether they care about the bags being able to inflate and hold air? I'm wondering how many cars there are out there whose original bags could possibly hold air?????


Thanks!

Yes, they do check the bladders and the pressure relief by the 3 buttons.

If the pump does not pump you may be able to repair the diaphram using a heavy thickness rubber glove. It is not a hard job. If the bladder is dried out you can replace it with a new one. A number of companies do sell replacements and there are instructions on the internet. I bought mine from Davies Corvette supply in Florida.

https://corvetteparts.com/c4/catalog/seats?pn=2

They have many of the parts and pieces you need to repair the seats. You can also try:

http://corvettespecialty.com/c4-corvette-parts-1984-96/seats-related

Good luck

[KILLSHOTS]

Yes, they do check the bladders and the pressure relief by the 3 buttons.

If the pump does not pump you may be able to repair the diaphram using a heavy thickness rubber glove. It is not a hard job. If the bladder is dried out you can replace it with a new one. A number of companies do sell replacements and there are instructions on the internet. I bought mine from Davies Corvette supply in Florida.

https://corvetteparts.com/c4/catalog/seats?pn=2

They have many of the parts and pieces you need to repair the seats. You can also try:

http://corvettespecialty.com/c4-corvette-parts-1984-96/seats-related

Good luck


I didn't buy the car, but thanks for the good advice!