C7 ZR breaks cover

[XfireZ51]

From C&D

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c8-general-discussion/4059437-latest-2019-zr1-and-latest-mid-engine-2020-a-3.html#post1595926443

[XfireZ51]

It appears GM may commit the ultimate travesty and name
Gdamn pushrod motor using the LT5 moniker.

[1991KOTH]

It appears GM may commit the ultimate travesty and name

Gdamn pushrod motor using the LT5 moniker.



Its a travesty really. If its not DOHC its not an LT5. The LT5 was something really different and special. This is not that. Thats like bringing the L88 name back and putting it in a base model vette lol.


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[Jagdpanzer]

Confirms what I’ve suspected all along. For many years first priority at GM has been pick-up truck engines that the other vehicle models have no other choice but to figure out how to make do with if more powerful engines were needed. Face it boys and girls we were very blessed to have our beloved DOHC LT5 Engine see the light of day in the C4 ZR-1.


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[XfireZ51]

Phil,

I’m still holding out hope that a 32VDOHC motor shows up in the “ZORA”.
I can buy that GM decided to continue on w a warmed over version of the LT4,
altho very disappointed in the use of the LT5 moniker.
Trashing the namesake of a motor that brought GM, albeit indirectly, world records that it did is a huge waste of marketing cred.
Maybe the powertrain guys want their own stamp on a completely different motor.
But I think they blew it with this. Call the damn thing an LT4+, LT4B.

[Jagdpanzer]

Not enough camshafts to be worthy of the LT5 label


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[Ccmano]

While I agree that ideally the LT5 moniker should be reserved for a more “special” engine. Every time I get in my 08 LS3 I am reminded of the easy power and torque these engines put out. I simply have a Vararam cold air intake and a canned tune, I make 400 rwhp. There is gobs of torque through the entire power band. That’s not even the current generation of engines.

I guess I’m saying that they really don’t need to do anything exotic to get large amounts of reliable power. Sure I would luv to see high reving twin cam, vvt, direct injected, twin charged etc. engine.

My biggest fear is that with the mid-engined, twincam 2019 or whatever Corvette, they price the car out of reach. Historically the appeal of Corvette is that of a relatively affordable everymans sports car that can run with more expensive cars. Lose that and Corvette is no longer special. Any of today’s manufacturers can build an expensive, powerful exotic sports car.

Even our ZR-1’s were, back in the day, a bargain for the power and performance you got relative to the competition.
H
:cheers:

[ssrszz4]

Really though the c4 Zr1 was not an every man car being almost twice as expensive as a base Corvette.

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[Ccmano]

Really though the c4 Zr1 was not an every man car being almost twice as expensive as a base Corvette.

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I didn’t mean to imply that. It was however still a relative bargain compared to cars of comparable performance of the day.
H
:cheers:

[tiegsd]

There might be other ZR-1s, and we may witness the rebirth of the LT-5 (since GM is so fond of recycling engine codes), but there's only 1 King of The Hill!

:cheers:

[XfireZ51]

Hans,

U know and I know that the Corvette will never be taken seriously until it gets a proper powerplant, which today would include a hybrid. But a truck motor ain’t going to get the job done. Its why McLellan did what he did.
U can get prodigious amounts of torque from a diesel motor too but ....
Any thought of producing a mid engine will need to include a modern motor configuration full stop otherwise its a Fiero.

[Paul Workman]

While I agree that ideally the LT5 moniker should be reserved for a more “special” engine. Every time I get in my 08 LS3 I am reminded of the easy power and torque these engines put out. I simply have a Vararam cold air intake and a canned tune, I make 400 rwhp. There is gobs of torque through the entire power band. That’s not even the current generation of engines.

I guess I’m saying that they really don’t need to do anything exotic to get large amounts of reliable power. Sure I would luv to see high reving twin cam, vvt, direct injected, twin charged etc. engine. H
:cheers:

No replacement for displacemment...

And, I think you hit it on the head, Hans: 90% of the Corvette drivers never appreciate the cars' full potential. 8000 rpm performance is in the stratosphere, far as they're concerned. Hell, in a pole a couple years back around 40% of ZR-1 owners rarely IF EVER broke into the 6000s. And, I believe GM too is fully aware of the fact.

My point is, pushrods provide all the performance 90% of the GM Camaro and pickup truck customers and (sorry ro say) Corvette owners included will ever use. The problem is, for the remaining10% of us true performance junkies, coming in second...SUCKS! And, we expect better!

[XfireZ51]

No replacement for displacemment...

And, I think you hit it on the head, Hans: 90% of the Corvette drivers never appreciate the cars' full potential. 8000 rpm performance is in the stratosphere, far as they're concerned. Hell, in a pole a couple years back around 40% of ZR-1 owners rarely IF EVER broke into the 6000s. And, I believe GM too is fully aware of the fact.

My point is, pushrods provide all the performance 90% of the GM Camaro and pickup truck customers and (sorry ro say) Corvette owners included will ever use. The problem is, for the remaining10% of us true performance junkies, coming in second...SUCKS! And, we expect better!

GM needs to be focusing on the next gen Corvette owner and not the one getting ready for the assisted living community w little to no garage space. The C7 may be the last Corvette that generation can support unless there’s a Corvette SUV.

[Paul Workman]

GM needs to be focusing on the next gen Corvette owner and not the one getting ready for the assisted living community w little to no garage space. The C7 may be the last Corvette that generation can support unless there’s a Corvette SUV.

Couldn't agree with YOU more, Dom...and don't think that don't worry me none! :p

Speaking for myself, I may never be able to afford a C8 ZR1 w/ or w/o a DOHC. So, like many of us, I'm looking at "plan B": Get the Greek to put more shine on my beloved LT5!:dancing But, it is still going to be disappointing to see Corvette taking a back seat in the tests of true performance (Le Manns, et al).

It took the LT5 to break some eggs w/ GM once; rub their noses in "it", as it were. Too bad the boardroom maybe didn't learn anything from history. Hope I'm wrong...I'd love to be wrong.

Back to (FBI) reality: Plan B really ain't bad at all, come to think of it!!

.

[Ccmano]

Guys this whole discussion will likely be mute in the not to distant future. As I am fond of pointing out. The 2025 EPA emissions regulations virtually kill the internal combustion engine. Our beloved Corvette, if it still exists in a world of autonomous vehicles, will be an EV like all the rest. Between now and then I simply hope that GM continues the policy of providing at least 2 levels of Corvette. A relatively affordable “everymans” model for Paul’s 90%. And an exotic model to carry the banner for American technology and Dom’s 10%.
H
:cheers:

[WARP TEN]

Looks to me that the designers are shooting for the Mitsu Evo crowd....Bob

[Paul Workman]

Guys this whole discussion will likely be mute in the not to distant future. As I am fond of pointing out. The 2025 EPA emissions regulations virtually kill the internal combustion engine. Our beloved Corvette, if it still exists in a world of autonomous vehicles, will be an EV like all the rest. Between now and then I simply hope that GM continues the policy of providing at least 2 levels of Corvette. A relatively affordable “everymans” model for Paul’s 90%. And an exotic model to carry the banner for American technology and Dom’s 10%.
H
:cheers:

"Paul's 90% group"? Oh, hell no! No "WAXER" here!! I'm with Dom's "10" - along with you and many others here, I recon. (Thar ain't no steeeking pushrod Corvettes in MY garage...yet![-X:p (However, I would allow a C6Z06!:dancing)

But, if I win the lottery, and there ain't no new screaming DOHC, mid-engine Corvette by then, I may have to consider the F-F-F...Ford GT (or the like) in order to get my high rev "FIX".:dancing

[1991KOTH]

"Paul's 90% group"? Oh, hell no! No "WAXER" here!! I'm with Dom's "10" - along with you and many others here, I recon. (Thar ain't no steeeking pushrod Corvettes in MY garage...yet![-X:p (However, I would allow a C6Z06!:dancing)



But, if I win the lottery, and there ain't no new screaming DOHC, mid-engine Corvette by then, I may have to consider the F-F-F...Ford GT (or the like) in order to get my high rev "FIX".:dancing



Just traded my c5 z for a cyber grey 09 z06. The ls7 is a beast. But there is nothing like the lt5.

If I won the lottery, I would probably swap in that LS7 based DOHC by Merc into my zr-1.


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[Mystic ZR-1]

Looks to me that the designers are shooting for the Mitsu Evo crowd....Bob

They ain't dieing off like our crowd...

[SAB]

Its a travesty really. If its not DOHC its not an LT5. The LT5 was something really different and special. This is not that. Thats like bringing the L88 name back and putting it in a base model vette lol.


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That's typical GM. I do have to admit that I am surprised that they have not resurrected the L88 name.

[Ccmano]

"Paul's 90% group"? Oh, hell no! No "WAXER" here!! I'm with Dom's "10" - along with you and many others here, I recon. (Thar ain't no steeeking pushrod Corvettes in MY garage...yet![-X:p (However, I would allow a C6Z06!:dancing)

But, if I win the lottery, and there ain't no new screaming DOHC, mid-engine Corvette by then, I may have to consider the F-F-F...Ford GT (or the like) in order to get my high rev "FIX".:dancing

Sorry Paul didn’t mean to imply you were part of that group. Simply that it was the group you were referring to.

Bob,
The Evo ricer crowd and others like it that the GenXer’s and Millenials identify with are exactly the ones GM is aiming for! They are tomorrow’s Corvette Owners.
H
:cheers:

[-=Jeff=-]

Thar ain't no steeeking pushrod Corvettes in MY garage...yet!



You make Ami keep her 69 outside?



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[XfireZ51]

Sorry Paul didn’t mean to imply you were part of that group. Simply that it was the group you were referring to.

Bob,
The Evo ricer crowd and others like it that the GenXer’s and Millenials identify with are exactly the ones GM is aiming for! They are tomorrow’s Corvette Owners.
H
:cheers:

U don’t see any pushrod motors being top dog at 1/2 mile events. They’re GTRs,
Gallardo, EVOs, 488s.

[Pete]

While I agree that ideally the LT5 moniker should be reserved for a more “special” engine. Every time I get in my 08 LS3 I am reminded of the easy power and torque these engines put out. I simply have a Vararam cold air intake and a canned tune, I make 400 rwhp. There is gobs of torque through the entire power band. That’s not even the current generation of engines.

I guess I’m saying that they really don’t need to do anything exotic to get large amounts of reliable power. Sure I would luv to see high reving twin cam, vvt, direct injected, twin charged etc. engine.

My biggest fear is that with the mid-engined, twincam 2019 or whatever Corvette, they price the car out of reach. Historically the appeal of Corvette is that of a relatively affordable everymans sports car that can run with more expensive cars. Lose that and Corvette is no longer special. Any of today’s manufacturers can build an expensive, powerful exotic sports car.

Even our ZR-1’s were, back in the day, a bargain for the power and performance you got relative to the competition.
H
:cheers:


Hans
You left out that your LS3 is 376 cubic inches.
An LT5 350 CI can also make 400RWHP with intake porting and newer CATS/ exhaust.
Lets compare apples to apples.
I'm in the process of building a 391ci LT5 looking to get close to 550+RWHP then we can compare torque thru the entire power band.
We are getting the same HP numbers out of the LT5 as any LS based motor (apples to apples) with 30 year old technology and an ECM that has less technology then your old flip phone :-D now imagine if we can add VVT etc.

DOHC TT mid engine priced out of reach compared to what?
I don't see to many 800+hp cars for $100,000- $150,000

Pete

[KILLSHOTS]

Looks to me that the designers are shooting for the Mitsu Evo crowd....Bob

Yep. Looks like a C7 mated with a new Civic Si. I like the wide-body look of the Z06, but this new ZR1 is absolutely horrendous.

[Mystic ZR-1]

Yep. Looks like a C7 mated with a new Civic Si. I like the wide-body look of the Z06, but this new ZR1 is absolutely horrendous.

Honda Civic Type R
Great little pocket rocket...
But, OMG, UGLY!!!!!
(not to mention 4 doors)
I know... they didn't dream it, or the C7 ZR1,
up with us Boomers in mind...

[WARP TEN]

They ain't dieing off like our crowd...



Aiy? What did you say? I can't hear you. Dagnabit, where are my hearing aids?...Bob

[XfireZ51]

Aiy? What did you say? I can't hear you. Dagnabit, where are my hearing aids?...Bob

Bob,

I heard you call him a young whippersnapper!

[Hib Halverson]

(snip)
Lets compare apples to apples.
I'm in the process of building a 391ci LT5 looking to get close to 550+RWHP then we can compare torque thru the entire power band.
We are getting the same HP numbers out of the LT5 as any LS based motor (apples to apples) with 30 year old technology and an ECM that has less technology then your old flip phone :-D now imagine if we can add VVT etc.

DOHC TT mid engine priced out of reach compared to what?
I don't see to many 800+hp cars for $100,000- $150,000

Pete

If a car with Pete's 391 in it makes 550 at the wheels, using the accepted 82% factor for parasitic loss in a C4 manual powertrain, that's about 670 at the flywheel, which is, indeed, impressive.

The new (and apparently much-hated) LT5 makes 755 SAE net horsepower from 376 cubic inches. Even with the supercharger on it, it weighs less than fully-dressed LT5.

So, the new LT5 has less displacement, is smaller on the outside, is lighter and makes almost 80 more horsepower than a 391 built with the most modern resources one can bring to the original LT5. It also meets GM durability schedules and passes Federal emissions standards.

A year or so ago info "leaked" out of GM implying that the "new" LT5 was going to be a 6.2 L DOHC NA engine but clearly that was "fake news". Nevertheless, one can only wonder if GM Global Propulsion Systems is working on a DOHC 6.2 (LT6 or L88?) for the coming "mid-engine car."

I'm looking forward to seeing credible power and torque dyno numbers from Pete's 670-hp 391.

Are you going to post that info when it becomes available, Pete?

[XfireZ51]

Here’s Mercury Marine showing how u make 750hp NA using LS architecture w a an engine footprint no latger than an LS7. Its as compact and as low as an LS 7 motor using in block cam. It is an LS7 w DOHC Cylinder heads. No FI needed for what is new gen LT5 power. Don’t think anyone could argue w MMR reliability and durability.

http://www.thedrive.com/video/11943/mercury-racings-new-750-hp-corvette-based-crate-engine-is-one-mean-green-machine?xid=emailshare

[5ABI VT]

Im dissapointed in how GM is recycling designations for their engines. It makes for a mess and people will begin to talk about it much more very soon. Now theres a genii LT1 and LT4 and a current LT1/4 and now LT5... what a mess.
Styling wise I think its right on par with current manufacturers that are all about excess flares, scoops and spoilers. Clearly Pontiac was a few decades too early :cry:

My guess is the dohc engine for the C8 will be a 4L, compact with twin turbos or a supercharger. Hopefully mid engine as well. Leaving the C4 ZR-1 the only DOHC Front engined corvette ever :dancing

[ZRapid-1]

Finally unveiled.

Fastest, Most Powerful Vette Ever
With two wings and a top speed of more than 210 mph, the ZR1 is a supercharged superstar

http://st.automobilemag.com/uploads/sites/11/2017/11/2019-Chevrolet-Corvette-ZR1-Live-Rear-Three-Quarter.jpg

755 horses and 715 lb-ft of torque from its supercharged, 6.2-liter LT5 V-8 engine, with a top speed in excess of 210 mph. There are no 0-60 mph or quarter mile claims yet, but expect mid to high twos to 60 and mid 10s in the quarter.

[Top Toy]

Naming aside, the new ZR1 raises the bar once again for value in the supercar class! Gonna be one sweet ride!

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[Performawheels]

Not a fan of this car in orange, not a fan of giant spoilers....I’ve come to like the C7 styling more over the years (they look a bit like Camaros to me)....but using the LT5 code is the worst.


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[Performawheels]

Another pic in orangehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171112/46aa4622223a4f0da707694404c0ab3e.jpg


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[Performawheels]

Like it with this color a bit morehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171112/6100a99fb0643f7f2b9dcb76c4d0e450.jpg


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[JimZRyd]

I've come to be a fan of the C7Z and am excited about a ZR 1 variant, but hope it's not immediately dated when the C8 arrives.

[Ccmano]

And here’s the Autoweek piece...

http://autoweek.com/article/supercars/755-hp-2019-chevrolet-corvette-zr1?utm_source=BreakingNews20171112&utm_medium=enewsletter&utm_term=arrows-top&utm_content=body&utm_campaign=awbreakingnews

[tiegsd]

Unreal the HP numbers we are seeing from factory performance cars these days. Likewise the astronomical prices.

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