ACR Viper vs C4 ZR1

[USAF Retired]

My friend has the 2016 Viper and asked me why I was looking for a 90s ZR1 and I said because that's just me. He proceeded to try convince me to go the ACR Viper route and spend more money. Question has anyone on this forum test driven the latest ACR Viper? How does it compare?

Thanks

[ssrszz4]

It costs about 6-10 times more

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[Z51JEFF]

It costs about 6-10 times more

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That,and its a Viper🤢

[USAF Retired]

It costs about 6-10 times more.

I'm aware of the higher costs involved. Is it worth the extra money? I guess my question is if you had the extra money to burn, would you buy it over your ZR1? I've driven the C4 ZR1. I like the open air targa top and interior feels open, comfortable, excellent sight lines all around. The Viper has no removable top. My friend says it's a tight fit inside. Viper isn't made anymore and looks like the ultimate American muscle car, could one day be highly valued, the raw power of the V10 at 645 horsepower. Was curious what is the general consensus opinion these days on the latest ACR Viper from C4 ZR1 owners?

[Z51JEFF]

Your talking about a C4 ZR-1 but what about a C6 ZR1? I have no idea what a Viper is going for but the price between the 2 cant be that far off. Personally I've never liked the Viper,the first Gen car was a halfass attempt to build something but I'm definitely in the minority here,even today somebody will piss themselves to to get close to one. The only Viper that was decent looking was the last body style with a conventional convertible top and roll up windows. If someone had a perfect Viper and wanted to trade for my 91,I wouldn't even consider it. But like I said,I'm one of the very few that don't care for the car.

[efnfast]

Does the Viper come with this group of guys?

[cvette98pacecar]

Look at the cost of Gen1 and Gen 2 Vipers, They are on the rise.

[Hog]

Latest iteration of the V-10 uses forged aluminum pistons, supposedly part of MOPARs overbuilding of the engine so that buyers can simply install blowers/nitrous and not have to get into the engine to make it live.


GM has only used forged pistons on a couple modern V8s.
The GEN 4 LS9 used forged pistons, the GEN 4 LSA in the Cadillac CTSV and Camaro LSA used hypereutectic(high silicon) cast pistons.
The GEN 5 Lt1 uses cast hyper pistons with piston oil spray tech and the GEN 5 LT4 that is supercharged uses forged aluminum pistons.
The GEn 4 427 LS7 used vast hypereutectic pistons.


If you plan on driving the car on the street, it appears that other Viper models might do better as many of the advancements of the latest ACR are aerodynamic in nature. It's a track car that has the ability to legally drive on the street.




645 hp @ 6200 rpm/600 lb/ft torque @ 5000 rpm
Their fuel saving strategy is the concentric camshaft technology. AKA DuoCam or cam within a cam
It allows the intake and exhaust lobes to be passed independently of each other. This like GMs Variable Valve Timing, allows to the engine to retain lower rpm torque while allowing for upper rpm power. Its a stepping stone to the Internal Combustions Engines panacea which is camshaftless technology.
DuoCam video
http://www.mechadyne-int.com/duocam-2/


(GM uses variable valve timing, Ford uses smaller displacement with boost)
Brembo brakes Kuhmo tires


Top speed is 177mph, while the cheaper Viper is 206mph. 11.5 1/4 mile
The rear wing looks ridiculous.


For an investment though, highly optioned cars usually do the best and ideally you shouldn't add mileage.


The exhaust cant be compared. While the Viper V-10 DOES sound better since they have actually connected bothe banks of 5 cylinders together in a rather complicated crossover design, it still sounds like a V-10. I remember an old car magazine trhat described the sound of the 1st Gen Viper to a UPS truck with a sparkplug disconnected. That has always stuck with me.
Nothing sounds as good at idle, or 10,000rpm as a V-8 engine. No matter the manufacturer, be it a Lambo, Audi, VW, Dodge, the extra 2 cylinders when compared to a V8 or the missing 2 cylinders, when compared to a V-12, make the exhaust sound unbalanced to the ear.
Something as simple as the number of cylinders under the hood, automatically disqualify the Viper from my "theoretical" garage. Even if dineiro was no option, the "No V-10s" are allowed sign would still be posted in my garage.
The V-10, trying to separate yourself from the plethora of V8 engines, but really don't have the hutspa to step up to the V-12. I know that this is what every V-12 Lamborghini and Flat-12/V-12 Ferrari equipped owner has run through their minds whenever a 5.0/5.2 liter V-10 Gallardo drive by.


I find it amusing when I see questions like "What muffler will make my V6 sound like a V-8?" or "How do I make my V8 sound like a V-12?" The answer to all is, you tear out the V6 or V8 and install a V8 or V-12 in its place. No matter the muffler, no matter the X-pipe, Y-pipe or H-pipe, the only object that will defeat physics and make your V-6 sound like a V-8, is the overuse of a "crack-pipe".

[Tripler]

Personally I will never go near a Chrysler/Dodge product . It's a C4 ZR-1 for me forever . If you go ZR-1 go with the 1995 model year . Little or nothing to do to the car and they have the best seats ...

;)

[rush91]

Back in high school the Viper and the ZR-1 were my dream cars...I was obsessed by the Viper. It was Designed by old man Shelby himself, in the vein of being a modern day Cobra. It had all the curves and lines and was so mean looking. And of course it had that V10!!! Say what?!! a V10 engine in a car from an American manufacture.....it was all crazy stuff.
But then when I moved to Florida, probably around 1997. I came across a Viper owners car show at Disney where I was working. had to be around 100 Vipers, something you just didn't see in those days. AND then I heard one start up and drive away.........might of well been a V-6 under that hood, because it sounded like crap. All of them!!! That is when I lost my lust for the Viper. I give Dodge huge credit for taking a essentially a truck engine, and stuffing it into a sleek Modern supercar. And the prices are going up fast for 1st and 2nd Gen Vipers as mentioned.

I wouldn't want to own a Viper now. I mean yes, if I pissed money, then I could see owning one. But the horror stories I've heard and read from owners, doesn't paint the car as very livable at all. Our ZR-1s on the other hand, are great comfortable cruisers. And still a fast car today, and can be made faster. And such a unique piece of Automotive history......We still hold all those world records!!!!! Does anyone really think that massaged truck engine and chassis could of run of 24 hours at 180MPH without breaking??


This guy has some good vids on his GTS Viper he bought.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWonxlP2pXQ

[Hog]

Saying the Viper used a truck engine isn't accurate. The V-10 was installed in the Viper 2 model years before it was available in the Dodge trucks.
The trucks got the iron block V10 from 1994-2003 in 488 cid and only in the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks.
Though the 488 prototype was a Magnum 5.9 with 2 extra cylinders, the Viper V-10 was never cast in iron.


The only actual Viper V10 that saw truck useage was the aluminum block V-10 in the 505cid version for MY 2004, 05, 2006 with a total production of 9,527 Dodge Ram SRT-10s 1/2 ton trucks. 6 speed manual trans was used in the reg cab 2wd(13.6@106 1/4 mile time/speed weighing 5100lbs), while the 48RE auto trans was used in the Quad cab 2wd version(13.7 seconds at 100 mph weighing 5600lbs).

[rush91]

Saying the Viper used a truck engine isn't accurate. The V-10 was installed in the Viper 2 model years before it was available in the Dodge trucks.
The trucks got the iron block V10 from 1994-2003 in 488 cid and only in the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks.
Though the 488 prototype was a Magnum 5.9 with 2 extra cylinders, the Viper V-10 was never cast in iron.


The only actual Viper V10 that saw truck useage was the aluminum block V-10 in the 505cid version for MY 2004, 05, 2006 with a total production of 9,527 Dodge Ram SRT-10s 1/2 ton trucks. 6 speed manual trans was used in the reg cab 2wd(13.6@106 1/4 mile time/speed weighing 5100lbs), while the 48RE auto trans was used in the Quad cab 2wd version(13.7 seconds at 100 mph weighing 5600lbs).





I thought Lamborghini reworked the cast iron block V10, by redoing the heads and block out of aluminum.


"A man who would prove vital to Viper, Francois Castaing, was at that time head of Chrysler's Jeep and Truck Engineering division. He had come over in July 1987, after a career in European motorsports, where he helped turbocharge Formula 1 as technical director of Renault's Formula 1 effort.
"One of the first major projects we got going was to put a new big V-10, a big gas truck engine, on its way," Castaing recalled. "Jokingly, we said, 'That's the kind of engine that back in the '60s, Bizzarrini and DeTomaso would have bought to create the great sports car of back then. You know, very powerful, torquey, big gas American engine, put into a nice body.' And we kept saying, 'Well, maybe we should sell the engine to people like that.' Bob [Lutz] owns a Cobra, so Cobra was another car we talked about. One day -- and I don't remember how it happened -- but the idea of creating a concept car like the Cobra, using the big gas truck engine as a core, came up."


You are right that it was put in the Viper before going into production trucks. But it was still designed as a truck engine before going into the Viper.

[ssrszz4]

Or for the price of a new acr you could buy one of every year ZR1

[Mr Blue]

I was never a huge fan of Vipers. They were at best a curiosity. When I began my search for a leisure vehicle, I wanted a rare vehicle with a history of accomplishment. Having owned 70's Trans Ams, a Taurus SHO and an '88 Fiero, I was all over the map. They were all fun cars but lacked any lasting legacy. The ZR-1 has all of that, plus. Vipers have no real lasting history, IMO. You can get a lot of better performing newer cars than a stock Z, if you want to pay for them. Whether you keep it stock or modify it a ZR-1 retains it's character. Besides, this forum and the way the members help each other maintain their passion is an added benefit you can't place a value on. If you want better performance, go after a Callaway or Lingenfelter ZR-1. just my $.02.

[Vette73]

Spend more money? Thats an understatement......From what i hear a new ACR costs 145K?..........a 90S ZR-1,,15K-25K......Apples to oranges......

[ssrszz4]

For that kind of money I would be looking for a Lamborghini Murciélago!

[Vette73]

A somewhat fair comparison would be the new Z06 not a 90s ZR-1.....Get a well taken care of 90s Z and modify it, if its not modified already....After that, hand the keys to your friend and let him take it for a ride ..I'm sure he will be impressed...

[5ABI VT]

I find it hard to compare the two. The biggest difference besides the price is in refinement. The 16s are fast, really fast. Solid and tight. Have a tight cockpit which I like and the styling I actually like but not love. Its a way better car but is it as special as the Zr-1 Id say no. the better car? yes. is it still special? It definitely is. If it had a dohc V10 I can honestly and surely tell you that i'd be in one !! ;)

[Zrracer]

I have owned both an ACR 2011 and a LPE ZR1 1990.
My ACR trashed almost anything on a road course. I think it's still one of the fastest production cars on a road course. The new one has broken every track record it ha been to.
I think I just saw the new ZR1 time at the ring is about the same as my 2011. That 2011 time was not a factory effort. It was a dealer who took 2 vipers and hired a shoe.
Asking about Vipers on a Corvette forum is not going to get you the most objective answers.
The viper has comfortable leather seats that smell like leather. I have never owned a vette with good seats. I think most leather in vets is pleather. The magic combination of plastic and leather.
The viper, I believe, will hold its value better.
Trash the new ZO6 in the track. Even if it does not overheat.
It's just not a fair comparison. A 90ies car vs a new viper.
When the new ZR1 comes out that should be the equal to the new ACR.
You really should go drive one. It's a wonderful experience.
What a great problem u have.
Robin

[32valvesftw]

If money is not a consideration buy the Viper, and buy a C4 ZR-1 as a spare. Go big or go home as they say.
If money is an issue then just buy the Viper!
Seriously I love my Z but a new Viper must be better in almost every category.

[Mystic ZR-1]

The Viper's only got one cam!!!
And only 2 valves per cylinder...
😋

[AnthonyGS]

I'm a car guy and have owned a variety of cars domestic and foreign. The two not for sale at any price are my 91 ZR-1 and '00 911/996.

If you are going to waste, yes I said waste big money get a Ferrari or Lamborghini.

For the price of an ACR you can get a ZR-1 a new SS 1LE car and a nice used turbo 911.... Is a viper more fun than that? That's why I have a variety of cars instead of one. I'm building a 25k track toy next that will likely leave an ACR in a puddle of tears too.

[USAF Retired]

My heart is set on the legendary C4 ZR1 but my gut says spend more. I think a lot folks are hating on the Viper because it's faster than their personal favorites but I think we should accept it for what it is because if you're a true enthusiast you should be glad the Viper exists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlO9F-r65gc

[rush91]

There is a guy in my town that has a yellow 1998 Viper....my 91 Z is stock besides the chip. We have done the stop light to stop light thing, and he didn't pull away from me....same thing on the highway. He will eventually pull on me, but I'm not losing embarrassingly. I have never and will never track a car, just can't afford it. Or the Viper. I looked at them before I bought my Z.....from my time owning my Beast, its just a more livable car to drive everyday. If you want a track car, then yes a ACR is a no brainer

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[G8nightman]

My heart is set on the legendary C4 ZR1 but my gut says spend more. I think a lot folks are hating on the Viper because it's faster than their personal favorites but I think we should accept it for what it is because if you're a true enthusiast you should be glad the Viper exists.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlO9F-r65gc



Hope the 2016 viper is faster than the c4 ZR-1 lol would be pretty sad if it wasn't. Anyway first gen vipers I heard through a friend that has one that 30000 miles on a motor is looked at as higher mileage and are usually do for a rebuild.


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[Kevin]

I would hope you'd buy American and go with the vette.

[Kevin]

My heart is set on the legendary C4 ZR1 but my gut says spend more. I think a lot folks are hating on the Viper because it's faster than their personal favorites but I think we should accept it for what it is because if you're a true enthusiast you should be glad the Viper exists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlO9F-r65gc

Of course the viper is faster then the c4 vette...just like i'd hope any modern performance car is faster then something that was designed and built in the late 1980's. Seems like a silly argument to make. Enjoy your new Fiat

[lfalzarano]

Of the many years that I have followed racing, I don't recall a Viper ever beating a Corvette.


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[BigJohn]

Sandbagging!

[AnthonyGS]

Buy whatever makes you happy. Just remember if you are gonna spend that much, you could've had a beach house and a ZR-1.

[Zrracer]

Dodge does not support a race team like GM.
The ACR has set a new track record at every track it has run.
the Nuremberg times that are being leaked for the new zr1,mid engine or Zora are just matching the 2011 ACR times. The older model. The new Ford Gt is going to be a monster also. Let's hope GM can show us the beef.
:cheers:

[onetinsoldier]

its really personal preference, what are you going to do with it , race it , just drive it ? Are you doing the the engine work , is someone else doing it ? Look under the hoods in both , see if its something you are going to be able to do at home in your garage ? look at parts availability and price . And as far as going fast , they are both fast in their own way , you can make either faster , but then theres always something faster ! Just get what you want , it only needs to make you happy , no one else !

[Ccmano]

Apples and oranges.... which do you like better? Both have their virtues but in my mind not a valid comparison.
H
:cheers:

[USAFPILOT]

http://horsepowerkings.com/rumor-did-the-2016-viper-acr-crack-off-a-701-67-nurburgring-lap-time-back-in-october/

http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a10349049/2017-dodge-viper-gts-r-nurburgring-ring-lap-time-farnbacher/

https://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/

[ssrszz4]

The car that set those records was a gts r. Which they only made 100. Hard to find for sale and near 200k

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[USAF Retired]

Thanks for all the positive feedback.

[Ronstar]

You could just do what I did and get one of these....

[Ronstar]

:dancing

[USAF Retired]

Yeah the C6Z is super nice.

[Mystic ZR-1]

Nice, but only one cam....
😋

[BigJohn]

Nice, but only one cam....
😋

Yep, it only needs one!
How many C6 ZR1's were manufactured?

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Yep, it only needs one!
How many C6 ZR1's were manufactured?



Under 5,000 C-6 ZR1's.
More rare than our C-4 ZR-1
Less cams, but more of most all else!
Unfortunately, more engine "beautification"
Marty

[BigJohn]

Under 5,000 C-6 ZR1's.
More rare than our C-4 ZR-1
Less cams, but more of most all else!
Unfortunately, more engine "beautification"
Marty

4684 C6 ZR1's
6922 C4 ZR-1's

The LT5 is a better looking engine than the LS9!

[USAF Retired]

Nice, but only one cam....

I'm not following you. Please explain.

[Vette73]

With 638 horsepower. Who cares how many cams it has..:salute:

[Mystic ZR-1]

Yep, it only needs one!
How many C6 ZR1's were manufactured?

Just like Oreo cookies
four is better than one!
(and, I don't wanna hear about double stuff)
😋

[BigJohn]

With 638 horsepower. Who cares how many cams it has..:salute:

Only 638hp; I don't know, this new horsepower game is giving me a headache!
:cheers:

[BigJohn]

Just like Oreo cookies
four is better than one!
(and, I don't wanna hear about double stuff)
😋

Chocolate or vanilla?

[Blownrunner]

I have a 91' Zr-1 and a 2002 ACR Final Edition. Both are fun cars to drive. The ZR-1 is like "Hmmm... ok, nice, Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!". The Viper is like "Damn! Take it easy!"

The ZR-1 is like one of those concourse cars that no one knows much about, The Viper is like showing off, a look at me.

[USAF Retired]

I have a 91' Zr-1 and a 2002 ACR Final Edition. Both are fun cars to drive. The ZR-1 is like "Hmmm... ok, nice, Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!". The Viper is like "Damn! Take it easy!"

The ZR-1 is like one of those concourse cars that no one knows much about, The Viper is like showing off, a look at me.

So which is your favorite? If you had to sell one, which would it be?

[USAFPILOT]

The car that set those records was a gts r. Which they only made 100. Hard to find for sale and near 200k

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all the GTS R is, is an ACR with a special paint job.

[ssrszz4]

Buy one then

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[USAF Retired]

Beautiful ebay 2015 Viper GT:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-Dodge-Viper-GT/332350622446?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

[ssrszz4]

He must not of liked it too much he hardly drove it!!

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[Vette73]

You spend all that money for a car and you lose your parking spot? Most people I know that spend well over 100K on a car don't have that problem.

I don't know how tough it would be to get that type of money from someone...I'm guessing not many people pay cash for a car like that from the dealer....

All though I guess that's why you see many cars like that at mecum or Barrett Jackson...At least there you can go no reserve and hope for the best...At least there, you know it would sell..

[USAF Retired]

I have tried hard to determine what is America's Supercar and every time I come back to the Viper. The Ford GT is another but the Viper I think is better. Corvette will always be an icon but it's not a Supercar, your mileage may vary. My $0.02.

[G8nightman]

So why not just buy the viper? seems like you made your choice.

[Kevin]

As I said before, enjoy your fiat

[USAF Retired]

So why not just buy the viper? seems like you made your choice.

Still not sure because I really like the 90s ZR-1.

[USAF Retired]

As I said before, enjoy your fiat

Fiat? I think it's VIPER :)

[G8nightman]

Still not sure because I really like the 90s ZR-1.

Buy Both problem solved.:fahne:

[BigJohn]

I have tried hard to determine what is America's Supercar and every time I come back to the Viper. The Ford GT is another but the Viper I think is better. Corvette will always be an icon but it's not a Supercar, your mileage may vary. My $0.02.

I like the Viper!
The early years the body work and finish was not what I expected for an automobile in their price range!
I have not looked to see if they have improved any in later years!
If you purchase one enjoy driving don't save it for someone else to enjoy after you!
I didn't like only getting 13mpg on the highway.

[USAF Retired]

Youtube review without the drama.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlO9F-r65gc

[BigJohn]

Cool Beans, can you drive like that?

[ssrszz4]

As a track car with all that down force they are great as a street driven car not so good. Cop magnet, bad visibility, cramped and very bad in town mpg.

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[BigJohn]

As a track car with all that down force they are great as a street driven car not so good. Cop magnet, bad visibility, cramped and very bad in town mpg.

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My LM the down force is adjustable!
I do have to look out for steep driveways, curbs and gutters; my splitter is very strong but don't want to chance breaking it!

[Mystic ZR-1]

My LM the down force is adjustable!
I do have to look out for steep driveways, curbs and gutters; my splitter is very strong but don't want to chance breaking it!

If you wanna plow something, there's always your Topkick!
And... there's probably 8000 pounds of downforce just sitting there....

[Vette73]

Anyone know the top speed of that viper? If your talking about a track car, has anyone mentioned a C-5 ZO6?

From what I understand with some bolt ons , heads, cam exhaust the car is 440-450 RWHP with about 300 or so pounds lighter than the ZR-1.....I figured since we are on the subject , both these vettes are priced similarly...

[efnfast]

I think the video said 177 mph.

[BigJohn]

If you wanna plow something, there's always your Topkick!
And... there's probably 8000 pounds of downforce just sitting there....

9500 with our the plow!

[BigJohn]

What did Nusbaum have to say at breakfast?

[Mystic ZR-1]

What did Nusbaum have to say at breakfast?

Not much.
His Mom taught him not to talk with his mouth full!

[Kevin]

Fiat? I think it's VIPER :)

The parent company of dodge is fiat, they're called the Fiat Chrysler group. Enjoy the fiat

[Mystic ZR-1]

Fiat: Fix It Again Tony

[USAF Retired]

The parent company of dodge is fiat, they're called the Fiat Chrysler group. Enjoy the fiat

The Viper is made [or it was] in Michigan isn't it? This means it's American made which to me means a lot. For example, I like Ferrari and Lamborghini but I think the Viper is almost as good therefore I'd rather spend my money on an American made product. This is just me.

[Tripler]

Every North American vehicle before completion will receive parts from either Mexico or Canada . The average is at least 10 cross border components will be required. No car in North America is built from the ground up at one facility anymore.

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[USAF Retired]

Every North American vehicle before completion will receive parts from either Mexico or Canada . The average is at least 10 cross border components will be required. No car in North America is built from the ground up at one facility anymore.

I understand but the Viper as the Corvette is assembled in America. Porsche, Ferrari and Lamborghini are all made (assembled) in Italy and Germany. My point is the Viper is put together in Michigan. I know about parts being made in Mexico and other countries but I hope that changes with the new administration. It is a real shame and disgrace for any American company to make their products outside the U.S.

[BigJohn]

Funny Mexico and Canada are both in North America!
Their parts would be American!
If you want to have something completely made in the USA; it will not be an automobile!

Buy the Viper and post some photographs!
I would really love to see it!
Most people who own them do not drive and enjoy them enough, just like Corvette owners!

[Blownrunner]

all the GTS R is, is an ACR with a special paint job.

I don't think the GTS-R had the ACR dampers, though.

[Blownrunner]

So which is your favorite? If you had to sell one, which would it be?
The ZR-1. The Viper was the second favorite dream car, with the Ford GT as number one. The Final Edition ACR's are very hard to find, some were wrecked, I have only heard of a few others being still out there. Only 34 were made.

It's interesting though, the diehard ZR-1 enthusiast is much more passionate than the diehard Viper owner. There is just something about the development and it's history.

[Blownrunner]

Every North American vehicle before completion will receive parts from either Mexico or Canada . The average is at least 10 cross border components will be required. No car in North America is built from the ground up at one facility anymore.

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The Viper is in the top 10 for american made parts content, I believe it is 85% if I remember what I read correctly.

[Kevin]

The Viper is made [or it was] in Michigan isn't it? This means it's American made which to me means a lot. For example, I like Ferrari and Lamborghini but I think the Viper is almost as good therefore I'd rather spend my money on an American made product. This is just me.

the viper isn't even close to ferrari or lamborgini

[Riviera]

Saying a Viper is the same as a Ferrari is the same as saying a Chrysler 300 is the same as a Bentley. Ah, no it"s not.

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[BigJohn]

Bentley and Lamborghini are owned by Volkswagen!
Ferrari and Chrysler are owned by Fiat!
Rolls Royce is owned by BMW!

[ssrszz4]

I would really advice staying away from both of these cars if you would not be doing most of the work on them yourself. Especially the z unless you live near one of the few shops that specializes in them.

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[Tripler]

I would really advice staying away from both of these cars if you would not be doing most of the work on them yourself. Especially the z unless you live near one of the few shops that specializes in them.

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Looks like a Ford fan is here . Welcome to the forum
;)

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[RussMcB]

I would really advice staying away from both of these cars if you would not be doing most of the work on them yourself. Especially the z unless you live near one of the few shops that specializes in them.

Sent from my XT1585 using ZR-1 Net Registry mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)I don't know about Vipers, but anyone comfortable working on cars can/should be able to handle a ZR-1. Every car has idiosyncrasies. This community can help with any problems that arise.


But, if you aren't comfortable working on cars, maybe you should steer clear of a ZR-1 (if you don't live near a ZR-1 expert).

[Riviera]

I want to correct an earlier post. Fiat Chrysler is not based in Italy. It is based in London. Home of the Lotus LT5 Engine Woo Hoo

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[USAF Retired]

Why am I sensing some hate on the Viper? Are most of you of the mindset that the 1995 ZR-1 is better overall than the 2016-17 ACR Viper? No disrespect but it seems many of you are Haters of the recent Viper. Why? I'm no huge Viper fan nor am I a hard core Corvette enthusiast but the 2017 Viper is one of the most valued and sought after Sports cars in the world today. Am I wrong? If so, why?

[Vette73]

I'm sending the same as I have been following this post..Hey if anyone has an ACR Viper they want to swap for my Z, I would be happy to oblige...

[lfalzarano]

Granted the Viper ACR extreme posts some great times, but I'm betting the 2018 ZR1 will smoke it for a lot less money.

If it is such a great car, how come they are discontinuing it? Any ideas?

Oorah!


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[Tripler]

Uuuhhh it is a zr1netregistry , not a viper website . So we're pro ZR-1 .
I would also say its not a viper hate on , more of a don't really want one . You asked for a few opinions and a few have responded . I find some of the responses quite funny and entertaining . I am sure this is all in fun and we are just messin with you . Your car is your choice . My car is my choice .
Enjoy what ever you decide .

;)
PS ... Why not own both ???

Just sayin

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[RussMcB]

<snip> Are most of you of the mindset that the 1995 ZR-1 is better overall than the 2016-17 ACR Viper?


on edit: My apologies! I wrote the opposite of what I was thinking. (I'm an idiot).

Corrected:

I can't speak for everyone, but I think the answer is 'No' (most of us don't think a 20+ year old ZR-1 is better overall than a new Viper).


Of course, "better overall" means different things to different people.

[Tripler]

I just realized something . It's not about which car is better or worse or which is faster or slower or which is more comfortable than the other but the fact we drive ZR-1's is plain and simple . We are driving a peice of history . A marvel of tech for its day . Is the viper in line with that stature ? Perhaps the original but not the lastest rendition . It's like comparing the new ZR1 to the old ZR-1 . You cannot compare them ...

My 1995 ZR-1 2 cents

;)

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[ssrszz4]

I think we need too troll the Viper forums , na that would be too easy!

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[BigJohn]

I just realized something . It's not about which car is better or worse or which is faster or slower or which is more comfortable than the other but the fact we drive ZR-1's is plain and simple . We are driving a peice of history . A marvel of tech for its day . Is the viper in line with that stature ? Perhaps the original but not the lastest rendition . It's like comparing the new ZR1 to the old ZR-1 . You cannot compare them ...

My 1995 ZR-1 2 cents

;)

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What?

[Hog]

Anyone know the top speed of that viper? If your talking about a track car, has anyone mentioned a C-5 ZO6?

From what I understand with some bolt ons , heads, cam exhaust the car is 440-450 RWHP with about 300 or so pounds lighter than the ZR-1.....I figured since we are on the subject , both these vettes are priced similarly...efnfast is correct, the ACR is 177mph, the Daytona TA (Time Attack) is 193mph. The non-aero package Vipers retain their 206mph top speeds.

[lfalzarano]

Viper vs. C7

https://www.facebook.com/hightechcorvette/videos/1575541499152812/


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[AnthonyGS]

Why am I sensing some hate on the Viper? Are most of you of the mindset that the 1995 ZR-1 is better overall than the 2016-17 ACR Viper? No disrespect but it seems many of you are Haters of the recent Viper. Why? I'm no huge Viper fan nor am I a hard core Corvette enthusiast but the 2017 Viper is one of the most valued and sought after Sports cars in the world today. Am I wrong? If so, why?

And it's always that way until the 2018 or 2019 mega mobile comes out. The newest is always the best. The latest GT3 hasn't been timed on the ring yet or the next GTR or next gen vette. It will be beat.

That said why is a ZR-1 so great? Honestly it was the top of its day. It pushed auto makers worldwide and ahilated all its contemporaries by large margins. The ACR is marginally faster than its contempiraries. It doesn't push technology forward worldwide like the LT5 did.

Go buy your viper thinking it's the best. Don't lose it when a guy in a Miata blows your doors off at the track though. And don't beller when a guy in a Vette or Mustang with a blower ruins your day either. There is always someone faster. And faster seems to be the only reason you can justify the Viper.

I dont give a crap what's faster. I love my ZR-1 for the smiles it gives me every time I start it or drive it hard. If you don't get it, that's fine.

You are free to go troll the K car forum if you wish too. You might really like a K car. If Iacocca and the K car didn't save Dodge, there'd be no Viper. I'd rather have an Omni GHLS than a Viper too.

[BigJohn]

If new cars are always better why is it my bone stock 71 GTX beat a CTS-V in a stop light race?

[Vette73]

I'm sensing a lot of tension in these posts...Lol..

[rush91]

I'm sensing a lot of tension in these posts...Lol..

Lol ......I'd call it passion of the LT5.

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[rush91]

If new cars are always better why is it my bone stock 71 GTX beat a CTS-V in a stop light race?

That's because they don't make them like they used too.....that CTS-V in 40 years won't hold up like that GTX.

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[Vette73]

Lol ......I'd call it passion of the LT5.

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God !! Its like a Yankee Met rivalry...Lol...

[Ronstar]

If new cars are always better why is it my bone stock 71 GTX beat a CTS-V in a stop light race?
depending on what year the cts v was... he either can not drive or he wasnt racing;)

[BigJohn]

depending on what year the cts v was... he either can not drive or he wasnt racing;)

Oh he was definitely racing!
My guess is that he left his nanny on; I have a good reaction time and forty six years experience driving my GTX!
As soon as I got one car length on him I backed off and stuck my finger in my left ear, because of all the noise he was making!

:cheers:

[Hog]

Oh he was definitely racing!
My guess is that he left his nanny on; I have a good reaction time and forty six years experience driving my GTX!
As soon as I got one car length on him I backed off and stuck my finger in my left ear, because of all the noise he was making!

:cheers:
400hp LS6-V or a 556hp LSA-V?


A stock 71 GTX even with a stock Hemi is a 13 second car at best.


I do understand "getting the jump" or "getting a holeshot" on the street.


If it was a GEN 1 400hp CTS-V you are lucky your car wasn't peppered with differential shrapnel.

[BigJohn]

400hp LS6-V or a 556hp LSA-V?


A stock 71 GTX even with a stock Hemi is a 13 second car at best.


I do understand "getting the jump" or "getting a holeshot" on the street.


If it was a GEN 1 400hp CTS-V you are lucky your car wasn't peppered with differential shrapnel.

It was the CTS-V Wagon!
The 71 GTX has run a 14.5 quarter!
It was a stop light race; my turn was at the next light!
The CTS did sound like it was coming apart!

[Mystic ZR-1]

John
You should behave yourself when your in Goshen!
Is that why you visit there so often?
Anti-social behavior, like street racing isn't
tolerated in polite society...
Shame on you! I'm telling Paul!!!
😀

[BigJohn]

John
You should behave yourself when your in Goshen!
Is that why you visit there so often?
Anti-social behavior, like street racing isn't
tolerated in polite society...
Shame on you! I'm telling Paul!!!
😀

I would do the same here but New Englander's are such poor losers!
Especially German car drivers!
He was jerking the car from side to side every time he hit a gear!

[BigJohn]

Are you home yet?

[Mystic ZR-1]

German car drivers?
My car was made in South Africa
(no kidding...)
The R32 in Slovakia.

[Mystic ZR-1]

Are you home yet?

Yep! An hour or so ago.

[rush91]

Oh he was definitely racing!
My guess is that he left his nanny on; I have a good reaction time and forty six years experience driving my GTX!
As soon as I got one car length on him I backed off and stuck my finger in my left ear, because of all the noise he was making!

:cheers:

Hmmmm.. Reading your post, that is not where I thought your finger would of gone lol. I was hoping you would stick it out the window and give him a New England salute!

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[BigJohn]

German car drivers?
My car was made in South Africa
(no kidding...)
The R32 in Slovakia.

I have never raced you or your cars, besides you have to restart your engine after every stop!

[Vette73]

I have never raced you or your cars, besides you have to restart your engine after every stop!

Yeah,what is that nonsense ? I see these nice cars next to me and before they move forward I hear the engine start...Every freakin time......Why even develop that technology? Save gas? Emissions? I can't even think of owning something like that...

What happens years from now when it starts to break down.....Are we going to have numerous cars stuck on the road because the engine failed to start in traffic?

If there so worried about the environment ,stop knocking down one -two family homes and building high rise apt.buildings.......You go from one to two cars per family to having another 100 cars in a one block radius....

Its happening all the time in the borough I live in.....City don't care, they figure the more people you shove in one area just provides more revenue from property taxes..

Capitolism at its finest.....Come say hello, but you will have to double park of course...Lol...

[SAB]

Yeah,what is that nonsense ? I see these nice cars next to me and before they move forward I hear the engine start...Every freakin time......Why even develop that technology? Save gas? Emissions? I can't even think of owning something like that...

What happens years from now when it starts to break down.....Are we going to have numerous cars stuck on the road because the engine failed to start in traffic?

If there so worried about the environment ,stop knocking down one -two family homes and building high rise apt.buildings.......You go from one to two cars per family to having another 100 cars in a one block radius....

Its happening all the time in the borough I live in.....City don't care, they figure the more people you shove in one area just provides more revenue from property taxes..

Capitolism at its finest.....Come say hello, but you will have to double park of course...Lol...

It's to save fuel and lower emissions which is a joke.

I've been told that the worlds largest 20 freighters put out more pollution than all cars combined!

[USAF Retired]

Wow!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_I1VDV2UVI

[Kevin]

there must have been a ups truck delivering parts in that vid

[USAF Retired]

there must have been a ups truck delivering parts in that vid

This one sounds a little better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnvBJ4G13CU

[Tripler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kniVVLZ-eIk

[Hib Halverson]

Viper ACRs are, for the most part, track cars. If you are a trackrat, that car would make a lot more sense than a C4 ZR1.

On the downside, Vipers have no ABS, are uncomfortable on long trips due to the odd driver position. They're hot in side. Gas mileage will be terrible compared to a C4 ZR-1.

[USAF Retired]

Damn, a lot of Haters here. American made Supercar. Imagine if I started this thread called Lamborghini Aventador vs C4 ZR1...I would be in the Electric Chair lol.

[BigJohn]

Damn, a lot of Haters here. American made Supercar. Imagine if I started this thread called Lamborghini Aventador vs C4 ZR1...I would be in the Electric Chair lol.

Cool your guns Sir: calling everyone a hater every time they give the true facts !
Maybe you should go somewhere else with your BS!!!

[Kevin]

Viper ACRs are, for the most part, track cars. If you are a trackrat, that car would make a lot more sense than a C4 ZR1.

On the downside, Vipers have no ABS, are uncomfortable on long trips due to the odd driver position. They're hot in side. Gas mileage will be terrible compared to a C4 ZR-1.

pretty sure the new ones have abs

[Kevin]

Damn, a lot of Haters here. American made Supercar. Imagine if I started this thread called Lamborghini Aventador vs C4 ZR1...I would be in the Electric Chair lol.

you're the one coming here with fake news.

Big john maybe right, it maybe time for you to find another board to troll

[USAF Retired]

you're the one coming here with fake news. Big john maybe right, it maybe time for you to find another board to troll

With respect why am I a troll? I am posting Fake News? Where? How? Nice job trying to bully me around the forum Moderator.

[USAF Retired]

Maybe you should go somewhere else with your BS!!!

I am BSing you? How? By asking about opinions regarding the Viper? This is BS? Please explain. I am all ears my friend.

[G8nightman]

You are comparing a C4 ZR-1 to a new viper like asking hey guys should I sleep with the 65 year old woman or the 25 year old woman lol [emoji23] no offense to anyone here...


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[Kevin]

With respect why am I a troll? I am posting Fake News? Where? How? Nice job trying to bully me around the forum Moderator.

It's fairly obvious based on your post history.

[BigJohn]

I am BSing you? How? By asking about opinions regarding the Viper? This is BS? Please explain. I am all ears my friend.

I didn't say you were BSing me!
It is you calling everyone haters!
I personally love all cars and I love driving them!

As I have asked you before are you capable of driving an ACR viper to its true potential?

[ssrszz4]

If we drove these cars to there true potential we would all be walking!

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[BigJohn]

If we drove these cars to there true potential we would all be walking!

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If you are not capable of driving high powered cars: then your statement would be true!
You need respect the power and learn the cars potential slowly;especially in a 500+ horsepower car!

[Tripler]

When I raced cars many years ago the only real difference I found when getting into faster more powerful cars was how long it would take me to get around the track . Of course you also had to have your wits about you regardless . Understanding the feedback from whichever car you are driving is pantomime to going fast in any car .

;)

[Riviera]

Viper an American as in U.S Car. - O.K. so it is assembled in Detroit, like the Corvette is assembled in Bowling Green. Sabelt seats are from an Italian company, so are the Pirelli tires. Bilstein shocks from a German Company and, oh yeah Fiat Chrysler is an Italian company. I personally do not believe that there is a single modern car today that does not contain parts coming in from other countries.

[efnfast]

Viper an American as in U.S Car. - O.K. so it is assembled in Detroit, like the Corvette is assembled in Bowling Green. Sabelt seats are from an Italian company, so are the Pirelli tires. Bilstein shocks from a German Company and, oh yeah Fiat Chrysler is an Italian company. I personally do not believe that there is a single modern car today that does not contain parts coming in from other countries.
I agree. I look at as "where is headquarters"? That's where the money goes.
E.I., Toyotas are made in Tennesee, but the money goes back to Japan.

[Riviera]

I agree. I look at as "where is headquarters"? That's where the money goes.
E.I., Toyotas are made in Tennesee, but the money goes back to Japan.
Right on Steve, Honda Civics are built in Alliston, Ontario Canada and the list goes on and on but at the end of the day you should look at where the parent company is based, cause that is the end of the money trail. So if you truly want to support North American jobs and want a performance beast buy GM or Ford.

[efnfast]

People don't support their own anymore. I do business with friends, family and customers first. (Which by the way is not always a good idea).

[BigJohn]

Remember Chrysler belonged to Mercedes before belonged to Fiat!

[Paul Workman]

If you are not capable of driving high powered cars: then your statement would be true!
You need respect the power and learn the cars potential slowly;especially in a 500+ horsepower car!

Oh, the statement is true...far as public roads go. The track is the only place to "let the dogs out" to anywhere near the car's potential! Truth is,* a majority of ZR-1 drivers' motors never see 7000 rpm, leave alone approach the capabilities of the car, with a good many that seldom venture much past 6000 rpm!

*according to a poll taken a while back

So! For most drivers, including those on this forum, the performance differences are practically moot: limited not by the cars at all, but by the skills of the majority of their dirvers! The true capabilities get blurred in the ionosphere of those truly skilled enough to explore the edges of the car's performance envelope and then tell us about it later.

So, if performance envelopes are beyond most owner's ability to evaluate it, then other factors prevail - giving the nod to whatever one likes or dislikes between the two.

That said, comparing a 22 year old ZR-1 to a (newer) ACR Viper might be the same as comparing that ACR pushrod, front-engine Viper to a mid-engine, 909 hp/8000 rpm DOHC (whatever) car. Same thing: only a very few could ever truly appreciate the difference, so "where's the beef?":dancing

I agree with the many that feel the current front engine rwd Corvette platform (and pushrod motors too) have run their course. Newer platforms (e.g., mid-engine?) and "ultra" performance DOHC motors) will cast a shadow on that older type of car as to make their past performance levels moot, in comparison to what the future could be bringing. (Did someone say hybrid?)

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Remember Chrysler belonged to Mercedes before belonged to Fiat!

And before that it belonged to all of us for three years, thanks to the bailout and loan they received.
However they did pay it all back years ahead of schedule, thanks to K cars and minivans.
Yes, the vaulted Viper is an offspring of the Cordoba, the K car, and the Mini Van.
Now that is some heritage!
:cheers:
Marty

[Hib Halverson]

pretty sure the new ones have abs

Kevin is correct, snakes 2001 and later have antilock.

Sorry for the bad info.

As for "USAF Retired" branding the anti-Viper contingent here as "haters"...I'm thinking...WTF response did he expect on a C4 ZR-1 forum?

My experience in Vipers was limited to comparing the first gen Viper to a ZR-1 at Heartland Park. Of some turns, the Viper's low-rpm grunt was unmistakeable. I found the car harder to drive at the limit because it lacked ABS though, once I mastered threshold braking in the car, it braked as good as the Corvette. I found the driving position uncomfortable. I couldn't imagine driving a Viper on trips as long as I've driven Corvettes. The cockpit was hotter than even a C4 and the f'ing side exhausts made the V10 sound like crap.

Would I consider a Viper or Viper ACR as my performance sports car for street use?

Not a chance.

[Paul Workman]

And before that it belonged to all of us for three years, thanks to the bailout and loan they received.
However they did pay it all back years ahead of schedule, thanks to K cars and minivans.
Yes, the vaulted Viper is an offspring of the Cordoba, the K car, and the Mini Van.
Now that is some heritage!
:cheers:
Marty

Ah, the CORDOBA and its rich Corrrrinthian leather!! (in my best RICHARDO MONTIBON voice!:p)

Talk about putting a ball gown on a pig (K car)....JMO.

[Riviera]

So I think we've established that the majority of us would NOT choose a Viper over a ZR-1. So let's do this - money is no object so which would you rather have a Viper or a Ford GT. This would be our second car after our Z's of course.

I for one would take the Ford GT.

[A26B]

So I think we've established that the majority of us would NOT choose a Viper over a ZR-1. So let's do this - money is no object so which would you rather have a Viper or a Ford GT. This would be our second car after our Z's of course.

I for one would take the Ford GT.

EASY! Nothing to consider! Ford GT :-)

[rush91]

So I think we've established that the majority of us would NOT choose a Viper over a ZR-1. So let's do this - money is no object so which would you rather have a Viper or a Ford GT. This would be our second car after our Z's of course.

I for one would take the Ford GT.
The Ford GT, end of story....

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[BigJohn]

So I think we've established that the majority of us would NOT choose a Viper over a ZR-1. So let's do this - money is no object so which would you rather have a Viper or a Ford GT. This would be our second car after our Z's of course.

I for one would take the Ford GT.

For the cost of a Ford GT; I could build four wonderful street machines.

[efnfast]

For the cost of a Ford GT; I could build four wonderful street machines.
Agreed John, but that wasn't the question.
I have no experience with either, so, no opinion.

[Riviera]

Basic facts to form an opinion. It looks pretty. V6 Ecoboost 647 hp. It won Lemans and you can drive it on the street.

[BigJohn]

I could have a real GT40!

[Mystic ZR-1]

Ford GT with rich Corinthian leather...

[A26B]

Ford GT with rich Corinthian leather...

We'll call you Ricardo from now on!

De plane Boss, de plane!

[rush91]

I could have a real GT40!
One couldn't even sniff an original for the price of a new one... your LM is way more rare and badass anyways lol

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[Tripler]

FORD GT All the way man !!!

;)

[USAF Retired]

I'm a little curious how many here would take the Ford GT over a 2017 Viper ACR?

[lfalzarano]

GT definitely over a viper!


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[Tripler]

FORD GT All the way man !!!

;)
Ford GT all the way man !!!

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[Riviera]

I'm a little curious how many here would take the Ford GT over a 2017 Viper ACR?

Um, I guess you didn't get the post. This was any Viper versus a Ford GT and the GT is the car of choice. The current year FORD GT won LeMans.

[Riviera]

But in a more serious vein, hope all Florida members are safe and you have your car of choice on blocks or hoist, etc.

[lfalzarano]

Even a hoist won't be high enough in SW Florida. [emoji35]


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[BigJohn]

Personally I would never take a turbo V6 over a naturally aspirated big bore engine!

[Tripler]

Yikes :(

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[lfalzarano]

I agree, but I think we prefer the Ford V8 GT40 and not the latest eco-crap V6


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[Kevin]

Um, I guess you didn't get the post. This was any Viper versus a Ford GT and the GT is the car of choice. The current year FORD GT won LeMans.

It was actually gifted the win by the aco...really sad

[Tripler]

But it still won and a win is a win ...

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[lfalzarano]

Watch this video of a GT40 smoking a Hellcat and a Viper.
https://youtu.be/ItLJoKTfWPw


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[lfalzarano]

Will you be able find parts for the Viper 25 years from now? [emoji12]


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[BigJohn]

I am 63 now in twenty five years, I will not care!

[lfalzarano]

U young whipper snapper! Your heirs will!


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