134 A/C

[Tony91]

I might need to replace my A/C compressor and r12 might not be a possible replacement. I was thinking about going the NCRS route in the future. How will switching over to 134 effect the status of judging?

[spork2367]

I might need to replace my A/C compressor and r12 might not be a possible replacement. I was thinking about going the NCRS route in the future. How will switching over to 134 effect the status of judging?

How would they know?

[Ccmano]

How would they know?

Connector fittings to the receiver/drier are different for R12 and R134a. If you use the original r/d with an adapter fitting and remove it afterwards there will be no way to tell.
H

[Tony91]

Thanks, I was wondering if there were any differences in both systems. I want to keep as much as original as possible. And as r12 is pretty expensive, I might go the route of 134. Can anybody tell me running 134, was it as cold, colder?

[Dynomite]

Thanks, I was wondering if there were any differences in both systems. I want to keep as much as original as possible. And as r12 is pretty expensive, I might go the route of 134. Can anybody tell me running 134, was it as cold, colder?

The 95 ZR-1s have 134 AC. I do not notice any difference as I have both 90s and a 95. You can get as much R12 on Ebay as you want for about $30 a can.

There are lots of stories and recommendations for the R12 to R134 Conversion.....both some negative and positive. I think the AC Compressor operates at a higher pressure with R134 for example but you would use the existing R12 compressor with R134. I just seen you are changing compressors anyway.

There exists several R12 to R134 Conversion Kits which include the Compressor, Oil, Expansion Valve and Dryer/fittings. First thing you have to do is vacuum out the existing R12 System.

I was thinking of doing this conversion with a 1993 Ford XLT but have found the Original R12 Compressor was leaking oil so will stay with R12 system and just have the original compressor replaced.....let us know how it goes :thumbsup:

[RICHARD TILL]

I`ve converted no less than 25 cars to R-134. Its better to vacuum the system but not mandatory. Add one can of 134 to keep the compressor energized, then add the correct amount of oil. Now add 134 until the low side gauge reads 40-45 lbs. The compressor or dryer does not have to be changed.

[spork2367]

The 95 ZR-1s have 134 AC. I do not notice any difference as I have both 90s and a 95. You can get as much R12 on Ebay as you want for about $30 a can.

There are lots of stories and recommendations for the R12 to R134 Conversion.....both some negative and positive. I think the AC Compressor operates at a higher pressure with R134 for example but you would use the existing R12 compressor with R134. I just seen you are changing compressors anyway.

There exists several R12 to R134 Conversion Kits. First thing you have to do is vacuum out the existing R12 System.

I may do this conversion myself with a 1993 Ford XLT.....let us know how it goes :thumbsup:

I`ve converted no less than 25 cars to R-134. Its better to vacuum the system but not mandatory. Add one can of 134 to keep the compressor energized, then add the correct amount of oil. Now add 134 until the low side gauge reads 40-45 lbs. The compressor or dryer does not have to be changed.


Seems to be some dubious information in this thread. I do HVAC work for a living and am licensed to do it. I convert, repair, etc. vehicles on the side.

The only r134 specific compressors are those that came on vehicles that were originally r134. Obviously there are some vehicles that were crossover years where one might exist in the same style and fit both systems. The only difference when you buy a compressor for an r12 vehicle labeled for r134 is the oil in it.

If you're not flushing and replacing everything, make sure you get an oil that is compatible with the old and new, not a 134 specific oil.

When switching a system over, the ideal way to do it is to flush the system with a cleaner, replace the drier/accumulator, change the orifice valve if it's not integral with the drier/accumulator, refill with the proper oil, vacuum the system down, then refill with r134 to the recommended percentage. Typically around 80% of the original r12 charge.

As far as changes between r12 and r134, the only thing that can be purchased that is specific is a new orifice valve and oil. It doesn't have to be changed, but the r134 designs are suppose to work better in retrofits. I've never noticed a real difference, but I'm sure it depends on the system and vehicle. These are typically integrated into the hard line with the accumulator/drier.

R134 put back into an r12 system will never be as cold. That's just the physics of it. The difference may not be noticeable, but they system was designed around the operating pressures and characteristics of a certain refrigerant.

I don't know how you would convert without pulling a vacuum on the system. You're either starting with a system that has no leaks and contains refrigerant and you'll have a mix, or you have a system that had a leak, contains air, and worse than that moisture. Part of the importance of the vacuum process is that it boils off all the moisture in the system. Obviously if there is air in the system, you will never get the proper quantity of refrigerant in. With digital gauges you should be able to pull an all original system with no leaks down to about 1100 microns. A new system should get down to about 600 microns. Anything way off from that has a leak or a lot of moisture.

A system that wasn't vacuumed will absolutely fail before a system that was. I would compare doing that to installing new wheel bearings in something without greasing them. They will be nicer than a bad bearing, but not as nice as a new greased bearing....and only for a short period of time.

[Ccmano]

Good stuff, Spork! On our cars the orifice valve is in the hard line. While I know the ideal way is to replace the receiver/dryer, what risk is there in not replacing it?
H
:cheers:

[-=Jeff=-]

Good stuff, Spork! On our cars the orifice valve is in the hard line. While I know the ideal way is to replace the receiver/dryer, what risk is there in not replacing it?
H
:cheers:

Oriface is also easy to replace as it is right a fitting of 2 lines..

MY guess on the receiver/drying would be moisture or contaminants in the system?

[Mystic ZR-1]

Not only all that, but, a new accumulator can be polished
to look like chrome with little effort!

[Tony91]

Thx for the replies, after digging into the situation it appears to be more clutch/coil related. Does anyone know the ohm reading for the coil? And should 12v be the voltage going to the coil to engage? Also if not engage correctly could it be adjusted by adding/ removing shims in the assembly.

[jrd1990zr1]

Seems to be some dubious information in this thread. I do HVAC work for a living and am licensed to do it. I convert, repair, etc. vehicles on the side.

The only r134 specific compressors are those that came on vehicles that were originally r134. Obviously there are some vehicles that were crossover years where one might exist in the same style and fit both systems. The only difference when you buy a compressor for an r12 vehicle labeled for r134 is the oil in it.

If you're not flushing and replacing everything, make sure you get an oil that is compatible with the old and new, not a 134 specific oil.

When switching a system over, the ideal way to do it is to flush the system with a cleaner, replace the drier/accumulator, change the orifice valve if it's not integral with the drier/accumulator, refill with the proper oil, vacuum the system down, then refill with r134 to the recommended percentage. Typically around 80% of the original r12 charge.

As far as changes between r12 and r134, the only thing that can be purchased that is specific is a new orifice valve and oil. It doesn't have to be changed, but the r134 designs are suppose to work better in retrofits. I've never noticed a real difference, but I'm sure it depends on the system and vehicle. These are typically integrated into the hard line with the accumulator/drier.

R134 put back into an r12 system will never be as cold. That's just the physics of it. The difference may not be noticeable, but they system was designed around the operating pressures and characteristics of a certain refrigerant.

I don't know how you would convert without pulling a vacuum on the system. You're either starting with a system that has no leaks and contains refrigerant and you'll have a mix, or you have a system that had a leak, contains air, and worse than that moisture. Part of the importance of the vacuum process is that it boils off all the moisture in the system. Obviously if there is air in the system, you will never get the proper quantity of refrigerant in. With digital gauges you should be able to pull an all original system with no leaks down to about 1100 microns. A new system should get down to about 600 microns. Anything way off from that has a leak or a lot of moisture.

A system that wasn't vacuumed will absolutely fail before a system that was. I would compare doing that to installing new wheel bearings in something without greasing them. They will be nicer than a bad bearing, but not as nice as a new greased bearing....and only for a short period of time.

Sorry don't mean to hijack the OP question. Sounds like you have done this before. I have a leak in my R-12 system. We charged it 2 years ago but it is low on freon again. Don't know where the leak is. Any recomendations on R-12 with a dye? Also I've read the seals in the compressor dry out over time, my car is a 90. Any companies rebuild AC compressors, I want to keep my R-12 system. And any recommendations on oil for the system? If you were close I'd hire you for the repair.

Thanks, John

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Once you have a working air conditioner, either r12 or r134, please remember to do the following.


START THE DARN CAR AND RUN THE A/C, AT LEAST ONCE A MONTH!


Yes, especially during the winter months, when the car is not driven or rarely driven.


In the best of systems, the charge will leak out, albeit slowly, through seals that become dry. The seals only become dry because the a/c is not being run regularly.


I live where it snows too, but it does not snow every day all winter long.
When rain washes away any snow or salt, uncover the car; start it, turn on the a/c, and drive it for 15 minutes.


Less will break, leak or fail if you exercise the car regularly.


It also does wonders for the driver, especially during the cold winter months.


So stop moth-balling the car for the winter, only to leave it sit 5 months with no activity.


Those of you in warmer climates have no excuse to not drive it 2-3 times a month, regardless of how busy you are. If you can't do it, hand the keys to your son, daughter, spouse or close friend and ask them to care for it.


The entire car will be less problematic if you simply exercise it regularly.
Marty

[jrd1990zr1]

Once you have a working air conditioner, either r12 or r134, please remember to do the following.


START THE DARN CAR AND RUN THE A/C, AT LEAST ONCE A MONTH!


Yes, especially during the winter months, when the car is not driven or rarely driven.


In the best of systems, the charge will leak out, albeit slowly, through seals that become dry. The seals only become dry because the a/c is not being run regularly.


I live where it snows too, but it does not snow every day all winter long.
When rain washes away any snow or salt, uncover the car; start it, turn on the a/c, and drive it for 15 minutes.


Less will break, leak or fail if you exercise the car regularly.


It also does wonders for the driver, especially during the cold winter months.


So stop moth-balling the car for the winter, only to leave it sit 5 months with no activity.


Those of you in warmer climates have no excuse to not drive it 2-3 times a month, regardless of how busy you are. If you can't do it, hand the keys to your son, daughter, spouse or close friend and ask them to care for it.


The entire car will be less problematic if you simply exercise it regularly.
Marty

In my case I live 200 miles north of you and 3 feet of snow limits the ability to drive it on the roads December to April. I do however run it. Have 61K on the speedo. I don't think having a freon leak or a blower door actuator failure at 60K is caused by lack of use. I've had other vehicles which I run every day lose freon as early as 20K. On the other hand since the leak has occurred twice now, I want to solve the problem and fix it. I am open to suggestions on how to make the repair.
John

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

OK.
However, my ZR-1 has less than 20k miles, and has it's original charge.
Do as you wish.
:cheers:
Marty

[jrd1990zr1]

OK.
However, my ZR-1 has less than 20k miles, and has it's original charge.
Do as you wish.
:cheers:
Marty

I wish I still had only 20K miles on mine. I hope you are able to retain your system with the original charge as long as you can.

I just need to get mine fixed.

:handshak: John