License plate LED bulb upgrade

[GOLDCYLON]

So I went to look for a bulb to replace the license plate bulb to LEDS. Old bulb is on the left new LEDS on the right. It's a T4 wedge bulb. If it does not work after you install it just reinsert the opposite way.

[GOLDCYLON]

So I went to look for a bulb to replace the license plate bulb to LED. Old bulb is on the left new LED on the right. It's a T4 wedge bulb. If it dosnetbwork after you install it just reinsert the opposite way.



http://i.imgur.com/iBWhakv.jpg (http://imgur.com/iBWhakv)

[HAWAIIZR-1]

GC,
Thanks for sharing and the motivation to upgrade. Dingy, yellowish light bulbs suck! I'm going to find some T4 LEDs this weekend.


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[GOLDCYLON]

GC,
Thanks for sharing and the motivation to upgrade. Dingy, yellowish light bulbs suck! I'm going to find some T4 LEDs this weekend.


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Thanks Craig

I think the T4s are the side marker lights as well. I went to superbrightleds.com

PM me your email address I have a coupon email for the next order if you are interested

[Corvettes White]

Why do you want to make it easier for someone to read your plates?

[GOLDCYLON]

Why do you want to make it easier for someone to read your plates?

Well if your a convicted felon then maybe you should not do this mod. I like advancing this hobby by displaying that I am a proud C4 driver and ZR-1 driver. Your mileage my vary. GC

[efnfast]

Why do you want to make it easier for someone to read your plates?
Hmmm, good point.

[FU]

Nice mod, looks much better than the stock set up . Love that plate !

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Thanks Craig



I think the T4s are the side marker lights as well. I went to superbrightleds.com



PM me your email address I have a coupon email for the next order if you are interested


Thanks for the offer Darryl! I'll check locally and let you know if I decide to order with them. I just received their 4th of July 10% off email, but yours is likely more. All the cars here are all LED so I like it bright too. I think it updates the look a bit. I'll check the side markers while I'm at it. Thanks again!


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[XfireZ51]

I have had LEDs all around the car for several years including back-up and cornering lamps. So much better, not to mention the reduced current draw.

[WARP TEN]

Hmmm, good point.

Yeah, I see why you would have worried with your old plate that they took away.....Bob

[GOLDCYLON]

http://i.imgur.com/b7JSTpt.jpg (http://imgur.com/b7JSTpt)


All finished !

[Tripler]

Nice ...

;)

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[-=Jeff=-]

#24 @ superbright LEDs. I will say they are not as bright in the side markers, the design of the bulb does not utilize the OEM reflector in the side markers.. Also the front turn/Park bulbs will require a resistor if replaced. I am still working on a solution without resistors as to me, the point of LED is less current, add the resistor and you have more draw again

[ZR1North]

#24 @ superbright LEDs. I will say they are not as bright in the side markers, the design of the bulb does not utilize the OEM reflector in the side markers.. Also the front turn/Park bulbs will require a resistor if replaced. I am still working on a solution without resistors as to me, the point of LED is less current, add the resistor and you have more draw again


Every bulb in my '91 is now an LED, except for the front park/turn signals which I have not replaced for the reason Jeff mentioned. I assume a digital flasher (with the ground lead embedded) inserted in the four-way flasher would solve that problem, but I have yet to try it since the four-way flasher is so difficult to access. When I installed Corvette HID's replacement LED tail lights, I had to use an electronic flasher in the signal light flasher (which is much easier to access that the four-way flasher) to allow the signal lights to function properly, but that alone would not prevent the signal lights/flashers from operating erratically when I tried LEDs in the front.

[-=Jeff=-]

No the flasher will not fix it but will be needed. The problem is the way the side marker and park/turn bulbs are wired


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[ZR1North]

No the flasher will not fix it but will be needed. The problem is the way the side marker and park/turn bulbs are wired


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Ah, I'll delve into the wiring diagrams further as well.

[-=Jeff=-]

Ah, I'll delve into the wiring diagrams further as well.



I will save you the hassle. The side markers run 12v in both directions. Parking lights off, when turn signal is on the side marker is also on. Parking lights on the voltage travels the opposite way and when the turn signal it on the side maker turns off (opposite).

I have not really looked to see what can be done to keep the function the same.


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[ZR1North]

I will save you the hassle. The side markers run 12v in both directions. Parking lights off, when turn signal is on the side marker is also on. Parking lights on the voltage travels the opposite way and when the turn signal it on the side maker turns off (opposite).

I have not really looked to see what can be done to keep the function the same.


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Thanks Jeff - great analysis; no wonder the flashers and signal lights were erratic when I tried the LEDs in the front park/signal light sockets. I am going to delve into this further as well. Looks like some digital switching circuitry (to address the AND-OR functions) might be required between the lights and the control signals.

[-=Jeff=-]

This is from an 88, probably the same in later years but maybe not

GM used the filaments of the bulbs to their advantage, if I apply 12v to both sides of the bulb it will be off, but with LEDs that does not work, since the Bulb is basically a short, the new LEDs are not.

IF I were to place the LED in the front of my car and remove the front Side marker it will work in both cases

I have a 2 relay (per side) solution which might be the best I am going to get. it will change the wiring of the marker light and a ground will need to be added, But it would work.

Also in current OEM state, if you put LEDs in the front side marker, they will only with parking lights OR Turn signals, not both ( due to GM Design)

[XfireZ51]

Jeff,

I've seen LED bulbs for signal and tail lamps at AutoZone. Was tempted to try them when I did the Euro lamp conversion but w 8 bulbs needed it was going to be a bit pricey.

[-=Jeff=-]

Rear is no problem.. front side marker and front LED Turn signals are where the issue lies

[XfireZ51]

When u say front side marker you mean cornering lamps, correct? Because I have LED in side running lights. Or are thise supposed to blink w front turn lights?

[-=Jeff=-]

When u say front side marker you mean cornering lamps, correct? Because I have LED in side running lights. Or are thise supposed to blink w front turn lights?



No, the amber light, not cornering. Cornering is a different circuit.
AMber will flash in sync with turn signal when parking lights are off. when parking lights are on, it flashes 'off' opposite when turn signal is 'on'


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[GOLDCYLON]

When u say front side marker you mean cornering lamps, correct? Because I have LED in side running lights. Or are thise supposed to blink w front turn lights?

No the cornering lights are clear (white). They simply turn on which if you think about it is pretty cool for 80s tech. But no Dom those just turn on when you indicate the turn at the signal stalk. If you don't drive your Z at night or early morning like I do you may not even know that light is even there. GC

[GOLDCYLON]

No, the amber light, not cornering. Cornering is a different circuit.
AMber will flash in sync with turn signal when parking lights are off. when parking lights are on, it flashes 'off' opposite when turn signal is 'on'


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-=JEFF=- is correct :saluting:

[GOLDCYLON]

Rear is no problem.. front side marker and front LED Turn signals are where the issue lies

Has anybody looked into the non error already resisting bulbs for the amber bulbs yet

[-=Jeff=-]

Has anybody looked into the non error already resisting bulbs for the amber bulbs yet



Not sure what you wan by non error already resisting bulbs.


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[GOLDCYLON]

Not sure what you wan by non error already resisting bulbs.


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For wife's older Mercedes I converted all her bulbs to LED. The Mercedes had a DIC more up to date than that our 80s era cars however, with LEDS the car DIC would display error codes in the digital DIC unless the LED replacement bulbs you bought were sold as "non error" which means the bulbs were sold with a internal resister from the source to fool the DIC. So...... now with that being said has anybody here brooched the amber turn signal bulbs with amber non error bulbs to solve the problem. GC

I may do this when it's not 118 out here in Hellazona

[-=Jeff=-]

Got it. To me, while nothing wrong with it, does not improve the load on the electrical.


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[GOLDCYLON]

Got it. To me, while nothing wrong with it, does not improve the load on the electrical.


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Agree it's a sum of the parts. However the load reduction is significant on all the "other" LEDs we are speaking to a solution for 4 bulbs that are the particular problem. I want to solve that problem if possible

[-=Jeff=-]

I think a resistor across the positive and negative for the turn circuit on the 1157 will correct the issues


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[ZR1North]

This is from an 88, probably the same in later years but maybe not

GM used the filaments of the bulbs to their advantage, if I apply 12v to both sides of the bulb it will be off, but with LEDs that does not work, since the Bulb is basically a short, the new LEDs are not.

IF I were to place the LED in the front of my car and remove the front Side marker it will work in both cases

I have a 2 relay (per side) solution which might be the best I am going to get. it will change the wiring of the marker light and a ground will need to be added, But it would work.

Also in current OEM state, if you put LEDs in the front side marker, they will only with parking lights OR Turn signals, not both ( due to GM Design)


I took a look at my 91 wiring this evening, and I see what you mean about the dual-side use of 12V. It's another example of how GM used bulb filaments for circuit control, a little like what they did with the fog light disable when switching from low to hi beam. I see how a couple of relays could solve the switch to LEDs for the front signals and side markers. I'll have to sleep on it - just did a relay mod to address the issue I had with fitting the HID fog lamps and need to tackle some other (non Zee) things on my to-do list before getting the wire strippers out again.

[GOLDCYLON]

I think a resistor across the positive and negative for the turn circuit on the 1157 will correct the issues


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I'm always looking for a plug and play solution -=JEFF=- as you well know with the many projects you have done for me in the past :cheers: ;)

[GOLDCYLON]

I think a resistor across the positive and negative for the turn circuit on the 1157 will correct the issues


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-=JEFF=- look at EBay auction number 311910306778 this is what I think will work plug and play

[G-Sting]

GOLDCYLON, I can't seem to find the thread that talked about 'plug-n-play' success on the LED turn signal lights... I thought there was another thread besides this one.

In any case, I had ordered the aforementioned amber LED bulbs on ebay, from seller "summermotors86". They are titled:
2x Amber No Error Super Bright 30Watt 1157 BAY15D XBD LED Brake Light 12-24V

Along with installing those two front turn signal LED bulbs, I ordered and installed the CEC Industries EF32 Electronic Turn Signal Flasher from Amazon.

I have no other LED bulbs other than the two front turn signal/parking light bulbs.

All works great on the '94 Z. Parking lights on - amber is bright, not overly bright. Turn signals work front (LEDs), side marker (stock bulbs) and rear (stock bulbs) at a normal rate with a pleasant 'clicker' the same rate as stock. With or without the headlights on, all works normally. I like 'em!

Thanks for the help.
"G"

[GOLDCYLON]

I soft deleted that post while I was working on a problem with the mod. While everything appeared to work correctly the next day I ran into a problem when the park lights are on or the headlights are on as the blinkers will error out. The solution was to pull the amber turn signal bulbs from the front side markers. It appears GM runs 12v power through the side marker connections while pulling a 12v load to power the headlights. I asked -=JEFF=- to work a plug and play solution for me as I did not want to splice resisters into the factory wiring. I paid for the hardware for him to bench test and research for me. He did create a plug and play solution for me and I am ordering two more kits in the future. I have been running the plug and play mod now for three weeks with no blinker errors to date and I have replaced both my front and rear side markers with amber and red LEDs. I will activate that other post this weekend as I have a few pics to make of the install. Do me a favor since I have a 90 and a 91 only will you turn on your headlights and see if your turn signals work? I believe all C4s MY 90-96 are wired the same way. Thanks GC

Please note this mod is not ready for prime time and is in the trials and bench test mode only. -=JEFF=- will announce if and when he is ready to start making this plug and play mod available to the C4 community and at a price point of his choosing. This is Jeffs innovation and we are darn lucky to have him in the community. Jeff was kind enough to take his time to find a PNP solution for me that may benefit the entire community in the future. Just like Jerry, Cliff and a few others I'm sure I missed. We have an opportunity to advance our hobby and this great organization. GC

[-=Jeff=-]

Thanks for the kind words GC.. I am out of commission for 6 weeks and will be able to start back up after. By thne it will be cool enough for GC to get pictures and some measurements I need for me to continue. He will then get 2 more sets to mess with

Then I can figure out how well they will work

[G-Sting]

Do me a favor since I have a 90 and a 91 only will you turn on your headlights and see if your turn signals work? I believe all C4s MY 90-96 are wired the same way. Thanks GC

GC,

Glad to help in any way I can... I have tested the front turn signal LEDs at both the parking light setting and with the headlights on at two different times yesterday, while driving around and parked. They work flawlessly. The only thing I notice, is that with only the parking light setting ON, the green turn signal arrows above the Speedo light up dimly (I didn't notice that before, maybe it did it before the LEDs). But when activating the turn signal, they light up brightly in the direction of turn. ... I'll keep testing them this week, and let you know if anything changes.

I can dropbox you a video of them working, if desired. I also took some pics of the DIY process and would be glad to post when you guys are ready.

When looking for bulbs for any of the exterior lights, I do notice a difference between the 90 and the 91-96 fixtures and some bulbs. Also, with the base model Vette going from the L98 to the LT-1 in '92, makes me wonder if there was a change in the electrical system in there somewhere. ??

Absolutely, appreciate Jeff and all those who take the time to dig deeper into all the things that make our machines run great!

:saluting:

[-=Jeff=-]

Yeah so mine did the same but one inside arrow was bright. It should not do that. It is a combination of bulbs wiring resistance and a few others things.




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[ghlkal]

I wish I would have seen this earlier ...

Thanks -=Jeff=- for your investigation. This is one weird setup. With the LEDs the front amber side markers are so dim, you can't tell that they are on.

Unfortunately, I purchased these "2x Amber/Yellow 1157 BAY15D High Power 30W Turn Signal LED Light Bulbs" off the bay - they don't say "no error," so I assume there's no internal resistor.

I may try the bulbs G-Sting specified, but the interior turn indicator gives me a little pause ...

[GOLDCYLON]

I posted an update to this in my 1157 turn signal post for a PnP method that Jeff made