Secondaries issue...

[Ccmano]

Looking for some group input. Still a little rusty at this.

Power key on... nothing happens, no kick in pants. So far I've done the pink wire test and confirmed the activation works. The vacuum pump barely runs with the ignition on so i don't see a leak. Power key light comes on. Oil temp gauge reads about 120 to 180 under normal driving. Going to check the fuel pumps next.

Interesting... getting 7amps and 49# at rest using Paul's sticky method, question is, is that enough to get nothing out of the secondaries? My guess is that the primary pump is good, she drives and idles nicely. The secondary pump must be close to dead. I think I'll pull the fp1 fuse and see what I get.

Fp2 by itself (fp1 fuse pulled) does 3.3amps and 49#. Still not sure if that by itself would cause the secondary issue.

Any thoughts?
H

[efnfast]

Other than "kick in the pants" are you sure they aren't opening?
Somewhere safe, punch it. If it only revs to 5k or so, no secondaries. If it whips to 7 grand...

[LGAFF]

So cheap why not replaced them....

[Ccmano]

So cheap why not replaced them....

The pumps? Already ordered them...
H

[ssrszz4]

If the car races to 7000 it might be if you don't have a good history of car the secondaries may have been taken out or disabled at sometime.

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[Ccmano]

Trust me guys, this is my second Z, I know the difference between full power and normal power. On this car there is no difference between power key on or off. The test where 12 volts is applied to the pink wire on tHe control unit moves the actuators. I can see and hear them move. I may very well have to pull the plenum and test everything.

Just want to make sure I haven't missed anything obvious.

Thanks
H

[Paul Workman]

Looking for some group input. Still a little rusty at this.

Power key on... nothing happens, no kick in pants. So far I've done the pink wire test and confirmed the activation works. The vacuum pump barely runs with the ignition on so i don't see a leak. Power key light comes on. Oil temp gauge reads about 120 to 180 under normal driving. Going to check the fuel pumps next.

Interesting... getting 7amps and 49# at rest using Paul's sticky method, question is, is that enough to get nothing out of the secondaries? My guess is that the primary pump is good, she drives and idles nicely. The secondary pump must be close to dead. I think I'll pull the fp1 fuse and see what I get.

Fp2 by itself (fp1 fuse pulled) does 3.3amps and 49#. Still not sure if that by itself would cause the secondary issue.

Any thoughts?
H

Too low. This (current draw) is but a prelimimary, static test; a lipnos test of sorts. Monitoring fuel pressure while driving, especially at WOT, IS THE "ACID" test. That said, you wouldn't be wrong to be thinking of replacing the pumps: 3.3A...is not right.

AND, that said, are we sure the "accordion" air hose is NOT collapsing? That too can severely hamper the "seat of the pants" thrust of the secondaries opening. Jerry's Gaskets has the Samco type hose replacement, or Marc Haibeck provides some wire rib loops to reinforce the OE hose to keep it from crushing under hot, WOT periods. And, you may recall that I built an aluminum inner sleeve to not only reinforce the OE hose, but smooth the air flow to reduce drag and (theoretically) increase air flow. Just a thought.;)



.

[XfireZ51]

Hans,

U getting any codes when u go WOT?

[Ccmano]

Paul, good point, the accordion piece looks very suspicious. Think I'll take it off and go for a drive. Had Haibeck pieces on the other car.

Dom, I should probably do that. I haven't checked for codes because there no lights on in the DIC.

Funny, for me the best part is the challenge of working on these cars.
H

[Paul Workman]

Paul, good point, the accordion piece looks very suspicious. Think I'll take it off and go for a drive. Had Haibeck pieces on the other car.

Dom, I should probably do that. I haven't checked for codes because there no lights on in the DIC.

Funny, for me the best part is the challenge of working on these cars.
H

Yeah. Its a sickness...:-({|=:o

[Ccmano]

Hans,

U getting any codes when u go WOT?

Had a chance to check this evening. No codes are stored. This should support the fuel pump theory.
H

[XfireZ51]

Had a chance to check this evening. No codes are stored. This should support the fuel pump theory.
H

So when u mash the throttle, u r not getting a lean code or secondary throttle code? U r not just checking the history right?

[Ccmano]

When I drove it the other day I did not get any codes. I'll drive it again today and check again. Also want to drive without the intake accordion to check that. I've had the drivers seat apart all weekend fixing the switches and pump.

Did some clean up on the seat with Adams leather conditioner. Came out beautiful.
H

http://a68.tinypic.com/2ez4aba.jpg

[Roadster]

That seat does look good for 180k, looks better than my 94 driver's seat @70k.
My side bolster is worn, yours has hardly any wear, if that.....

[Ccmano]

Secondary issue resolved! Took her out with the accordion piece removed to check if that was an issue and to check for codes. Well... she runs like a top! Secondaries kick in strong with no codes. Looks like the intake accordion was collapsing in a major way.

Paul... you were on the money. Now to construct some accordion hoops. I will go ahead and replace the fuel pumps anyway since they tested mariginal.

For a 180k car, she runs like a a Z should. Pulls strong right up to 7plus k rpm. I continue to be impressed.
H

[jss06c6]

Interesting! Just took mine out and the LT-5 pulled like a freight train to 7,000, but if you are having issues with the intake tube between the filter and the throttle body, I'm going to see if I have any flex as well. Is it possible that it's a combination of air filter restriction and the flex duct age causing collapse? Mine only has 40k miles, but it's almost the same age ('91).

PS: Dominic, #473 is running like it's pants are on fire! I'm VERY happy with my tune! Thanks for the help..

Steve

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[Ccmano]

Interesting! Just took mine out and the LT-5 pulled like a freight train to 7,000, but if you are having issues with the intake tube between the filter and the throttle body, I'm going to see if I have any flex as well. Is it possible that it's a combination of air filter restriction and the flex duct age causing collapse? Mine only has 40k miles, but it's almost the same age ('91).

PS: Dominic, #473 is running like it's pants are on fire! I'm VERY happy with my tune! Thanks for the help..

Steve

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Steve,
This has been a known issue for years. I had forgotten about it. Just about everybody I know has some sort of reinforcement or changes out the accordion altogether. It is certainly a good possibility for you.
H

[PhillipsLT5]

http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20Web/products/hoops.htm

http://www.jerrysgaskets.com/duct-silicone-air-inlet-black-red-blue-90-95-12a/

[XfireZ51]

Mine has the phenolic insert. Not sure they are still available.

[jss06c6]

I'll pull mine off and check it out. John Boyd may have taken care of it before I bought the car from him in 2013. Thanks for the alert!

Steve

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[XfireZ51]

Interesting! Just took mine out and the LT-5 pulled like a freight train to 7,000, but if you are having issues with the intake tube between the filter and the throttle body, I'm going to see if I have any flex as well. Is it possible that it's a combination of air filter restriction and the flex duct age causing collapse? Mine only has 40k miles, but it's almost the same age ('91).

PS: Dominic, #473 is running like it's pants are on fire! I'm VERY happy with my tune! Thanks for the help..

Steve

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😉👍

[jss06c6]

No collapse on mine and no supports installed.. I'll monitor..https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170606/cf0a7104e829d27491648bfd750e71c8.jpg

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[Ccmano]

That doesn't mean it isn't collapsing under load. That was exactly the problem, they looked fine but when the pressure dropped under strong acceleration they folded. I would do a test drive without it in place and see if u can tell the difference. In any case I would add the Haibeck hoops as cheap insurance.
H

[jss06c6]

Will do!!

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[S.hafsmo]

Darn.. Just ordered from Haibeck a couple days ago. Should've gotten the hoops.

[ssrszz4]

Mine seems nice and stiff but I guess one would have. To be in there with the engine well it's speeding down the road with a flashlight to really know.

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[jss06c6]

Mine seems nice and stiff but I guess one would have. To be in there with the engine well it's speeding down the road with a flashlight to really know.

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Other way is on the dyno... But still worth the coin to prop it open..

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[Paul Workman]

FWIW, I simply cut out a piece of aluminum flashing from Ace HW, lined the inside of the accordion tube, pop-riveted it and cut off the excess - about a 15 minute job. Works great, last ten years!;)

[ssrszz4]

Are there any problems with the silicone sleeves?


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[RussMcB]

Are there any problems with the silicone sleeves?I'm happy with the one I got from Jerry's. My not-very-modified LT-5 made good dyno numbers, feels strong.

Of course, it probably would with Marc's hoops, too.

If Paul's mod uses flush rivets, it might be good for another extra .2 HP. :-)

[Ccmano]

Fabricated my own hoops from 3/16 brass rod. Easier to work than steel. Already installed...

http://a67.tinypic.com/5cyfe1.jpg

[Paul Workman]

Are there any problems with the silicone sleeves?


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I considered a sleeve a couple times - for esthetic reasons, primarily. So, I did some asking around of those with the sleeves, and nobody I talked to has had an issue with them collapsing.

Heat, along with vacuum work together to cause the OE sleeves to fail. Those solid (Samco) sleeves are heavy-duty, compared to the OE accordion sleeve.

[XfireZ51]

The phenolic sleeve I have works quite well. Very rigid and its smooth inside. My only concern is the thickness robbing some CFM. I may either get another airbridge and fab a metal sleeve, or do one of Jerry's SAMCO bridges.

[-=Jeff=-]

I have a samco on mine car now. Matches my coolant hoses


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