Thermostat

[Demps]

Does anyone make a lower temp thermostat for our cars anymore? I have lower ones from Ron/Randy Woods' SLP & AO. My new to me car runs significantly warmer with what I'm guessing is a stock thermostat.

Ted

[A26B]

Ted,
No one that I know of if Randy doesn't make them anymore. I would recommend you drill one 1/8" hole in the flange of the 185f thermostat. Makes a difference.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Ted,
No one that I know of if Randy doesn't make them anymore. I would recommend you drill one 1/8" hole in the flange of the 185f thermostat. Makes a difference.


Ted,
Sorry to barge in on your thread. Thanks for this question and this is good timing since I'm getting ready to replace my radiator, coolant, hoses, etc. My other Z had the Randy 160 and I know he no longer makes them. I have a question for Jerry though.

Jerry,
I saw your great thermostat info on your website and found I have a couple AC Delco thermostats I bought years back. Do you know who made those and any known issue with them. Do you still recommend the 1/8" hole even if I'm upgrading to a Fluidyne radiator?

Thanks,
Craig


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[A26B]

...............
Jerry,
I saw your great thermostat info on your website and found I have a couple AC Delco thermostats I bought years back. Do you know who made those and any known issue with them. Do you still recommend the 1/8" hole even if I'm upgrading to a Fluidyne radiator?

Thanks,
Craig

Craig, the hole drilling concept originated with Lingenfelter. I first did it to my 185f thermostat (3 holes) AFTER I installed a Ron Davis radiator. Summer driving was exactly what is expected from a 185f t-stat, abt 190f. Winter driving was about 165f.

Since then I have recommended it to quite a few others. 3 holes seems to be too many for colder climates when driven year around. For South Texas & gulf coast area I think it would be fine.

Several guys have drilled holes in t-stats & found the stock radiator adequate afterwards. This points to the thermostat as being the flow restriction that causes stock radiators to blow if the bypass is blocked. Drilling holes reduces the back pressure & allows more coolant to flow through the radiator. There is a point of diminishing return though, that occurs when there is not enough coolant retention time in the radiator for heat transfer. There is not any fixed answer as flow rate, ambient temperature & air speed are all variables in the equation.

Even though Ted is on the Gulf Coast, I recommended 1 hole to Ted because he's a young, nimble, top gun, fighter flyin' stud & can drill another hole if he wants some more cooling.:cheers:

[Dynomite]

Craig, the hole drilling concept originated with Lingenfelter. I first did it to my 185f thermostat (3 holes) AFTER I installed a Ron Davis radiator. Summer driving was exactly what is expected from a 185f t-stat, abt 190f. Winter driving was about 165f.

Since then I have recommended it to quite a few others. 3 holes seems to be too many for colder climates when driven year around. For South Texas & gulf coast area I think it would be fine.

Several guys have drilled holes in t-stats & found the stock radiator adequate afterwards. This points to the thermostat as being the flow restriction that causes stock radiators to blow if the bypass is blocked. Drilling holes reduces the back pressure & allows more coolant to flow through the radiator. There is a point of diminishing return though, that occurs when there is not enough coolant retention time in the radiator for heat transfer. There is not any fixed answer as flow rate, ambient temperature & air speed are all variables in the equation.

Even though Ted is on the Gulf Coast, I recommended 1 hole to Ted because he's a young, nimble, top gun, fighter flyin' stud & can drill another hole if he wants some more cooling.:cheers:

Assuming the 165 deg thermostat and 180 deg thermostat have the same opening (full open) the 165 deg thermostat would not offer greater cooling once the coolant temperature reaches 180 deg as both thermostats are then fully open.

On the other hand......At coolant temperatures below 180 deg, if you start drilling holes such that the thermostat flow area is increased when fully open the 180 deg thermostat will start closing at cooler temperatures and the more holes you drill the more the thermostat will close to maintain 180 deg.

Now once fully open at over 180 deg, the more holes you drill the greater the flow and the greater the cooling at coolant temperatures over 180 deg. Same goes for a 165 deg thermostat once the temperature reaches 165 deg with the thermostat fully open at greater temperatures....the more holes the greater the flow over the wide open condition.

There has been some suggestions to drill 1/8 inch holes in the thermostat flange to allow better cooling.
Just tested several 180 deg F Thermostats for opening temperatures and found the Stants 180 deg Thermostat will start opening at 175 deg F with complete opening at 185 deg F. Marc suggested at one time the older Stants will deteriorate (Decrease in FUll Open Area) by up to 15% as they age. A thermostat with over 50k miles generally opens 5 degrees later and opens about 85%. The Stants tested would be fully open with a flow area of approximately .785 square inches at 185 deg F.

Thermostat opening at 175 deg F....................................Thermostat opening at 185 deg F (Full Open)
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite21/2c0d5927-b56a-4e41-85ff-21541858daf1.jpghttp://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite21/e4d4f2ae-9950-4ecd-a40e-b545bbae5c78.jpg

A 1/8 inch diameter hole in the flange will offer additional flow area of .0123 square inches. Which one such hole will increase the total flow area by .016 or 1.6% (three 1/8 inch diameter holes would increase the flow area by 4.7%). This thinking does not address the change in coefficient of Discharge of such small holes.

Now compared to the normal aging of the thermostat of 15% over several years of use one would be much better off installing a NEW Stant Thermostat gaining 15% flow area as compared to drilling three 1/8 inch holes in an older Stant Thermostat only gaining 4.7% flow area.

See item #7 The 180 deg versus the 160 deg thermostat or no thermostat (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-6.html#post1584987828)

Given the LT5 runs Hotter idling at a stop sign than at 2,000 rpm as cited in Item #5 in the link above a much better focus regarding engine Heating would be engine RPM (which relates directly to pressure on the coolant flow through the Stant Thermostat) and not the Stant Thermostat (Old or New).

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Craig, the hole drilling concept originated with Lingenfelter. I first did it to my 185f thermostat (3 holes) AFTER I installed a Ron Davis radiator. Summer driving was exactly what is expected from a 185f t-stat, abt 190f. Winter driving was about 165f.



Since then I have recommended it to quite a few others. 3 holes seems to be too many for colder climates when driven year around. For South Texas & gulf coast area I think it would be fine.



Several guys have drilled holes in t-stats & found the stock radiator adequate afterwards. This points to the thermostat as being the flow restriction that causes stock radiators to blow if the bypass is blocked. Drilling holes reduces the back pressure & allows more coolant to flow through the radiator. There is a point of diminishing return though, that occurs when there is not enough coolant retention time in the radiator for heat transfer. There is not any fixed answer as flow rate, ambient temperature & air speed are all variables in the equation.



Even though Ted is on the Gulf Coast, I recommended 1 hole to Ted because he's a young, nimble, top gun, fighter flyin' stud & can drill another hole if he wants some more cooling.:cheers:


Thanks for your expertise Jerry. I have GM 10135637 or AC Delco 131-51. I will drill a single 1/8" hole as recommended. From some info I found the thermostat I have is a 180 degree? I don't know how it compares to Stant, but it is made in the USA so I like that. Thanks again for your thoughts.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170326/b80050258b27c3a17e4fdc3aac93a1f5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170326/334acac67b797095bf82c911c669ff24.jpg


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[A26B]

Thanks for your expertise Jerry. I have GM 10135637 or AC Delco 131-51. I will drill a single 1/8" hole as recommended. From some info I found the thermostat I have is a 180 degree? I don't know how it compares to Stant, but it is made in the USA so I like that. Thanks again for your thoughts.

Anytime Craig. I believe the OEM thermostat was Stant.
BTW, you posted such great photos, I just used one to modify for my post.:cheers:
http://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-nkg90o/product_images/uploaded_images/t-stat-hole-location.jpg?t=1490510190

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Anytime Craig. I believe the OEM thermostat was Stant.
BTW, you posted such great photos, I just used one to modify for my post.:cheers:
http://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-nkg90o/product_images/uploaded_images/t-stat-hole-location.jpg?t=1490510190

Okay, thanks Jerry! Man, if I knew that I would have taken a better photo than that.......lol. :cheers:

[Demps]

Even though Ted is on the Gulf Coast, I recommended 1 hole to Ted because he's a young, nimble, top gun, fighter flyin' stud & can drill another hole if he wants some more cooling.:cheers:

Thanks for the info. That was my next step. I think I may go at 2x holes & count it done.

As for young, not anymore but I'm still getting to fly. :fahne:

Ted

[A26B]

Miss seeing you, Caroline & those babies. I think we will be in Destin during June. Maybe??

[Demps]

Just let us know. Steaks on the Dempseys.

Ted

[Livin' in the 80's]

Is it true that you have to take the entire T stat housing out of the car to replace the t stat? Can you separate the housing in place from under the car? My new Z Didn't warm up at all when cold and got worse as the car was driven. I am sure the t stat is the original-it only has 23,000 miles.

[Livin' in the 80's]

Also, I was reading about the 1/8 " hole. Shouldn't this also help burping out the air in the coolant system when refilling? It would let air and coolant by the thermostat.

[Dynomite]

Is it true that you have to take the entire T stat housing out of the car to replace the t stat? NO Can you separate the housing in place from under the car? YES My new Z Didn't warm up at all when cold and got worse as the car was driven. I am sure the t stat is the original-it only has 23,000 miles.

See Item #6 and Item #7 Blocking TB Coolant, Fluidyne Radiator and Thermostats (http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-12.html#post1590759179)

Also, I was reading about the 1/8 " hole. Shouldn't this also help burping out the air in the coolant system when refilling? It would let air and coolant by the thermostat.

Possibly as that would allow cold coolant from the radiator to move into the engine and as such some air top side to move to top of radiator. That air top side of radiator moves to overflow reservoir in front of Passenger side window and then down to coolant reservoir under passenger headlight. The Coolant is then replaced as the engine cools and sucks back coolant from the coolant reservoir under passenger headlight.

A 1/8 inch diameter hole in the flange will offer additional flow area of .0123 square inches. Which one such hole will increase the total flow area by .016 or 1.6% (three 1/8 inch diameter holes would increase the flow area by 4.7%). This thinking does not address the change in coefficient of Discharge of such small holes. Now compared to the normal aging of the thermostat of 15% over several years of use one would be much better off installing a NEW Stant Thermostat gaining 15% flow area as compared to drilling three 1/8 inch holes in an older Stant Thermostat only gaining 4.7% flow area.

The 180 deg versus the 160 deg thermostat or no thermostat (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-6.html#post1584987828)

Filling with Coolant.

I fill with Coolant/Distilled Water. Then the BIG Secret......
A. I use a vice grips and close off the coolant to the Plastic Overflow under Passenger Headlight.
B. I fill Black Coolant Reservoir in front of passenger side window and when the bubbling stops.....Blow into/pressurize that Reservoir holding pressure for about 10 seconds. More bubbles will come from the top of the radiator hose. I refill with Distilled Water and Blow into/pressurize the Coolant System again. I repeat this maybe three times until no bubbles come back from the top of the Radiator. I then replace the Coolant Reservoir Cap and remove Vice Grips.....and fire up the LT5 keeping a hand on the Injector Housing Coolant Manifolds to assure they get warm within a minute. (That Happens with this method of Coolant Filling 100% of the time).

With this procedure you are pressurizing both sides of the radiator but with each pressurizing cycle more coolant is being pushed into the coolant system and more air is bubbling out from the top of the radiator.

See Item #7 Blocking TB Coolant, Fluidyne Radiator and Thermostats (http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-12.html#post1590759179)

[Livin' in the 80's]

I need to order it and it doesn't seem I can source it locally easily. Looks like I should get the stant 14068 with the correct spring and drill 1 to 2 - 1/8" holes.

Any recommendations on where to get the thermostat? I read to only use distilled water and the green antifreeze.

Planning on changing all fluids as well.

[Dynomite]

I need to order it and it doesn't seem I can source it locally easily. Looks like I should get the stant 14068 with the correct spring and drill 1 to 2 - 1/8" holes.

Any recommendations on where to get the thermostat? I read to only use distilled water and the green antifreeze.

Planning on changing all fluids as well.

Stants from Jerry or Marc.

I never drill holes in the Stant 180 deg Thermostat as that offers very little (1.6%) increase in coolant flow.

LT5/ZR-1 Fluids (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp.html#post1580070550)

RADIATOR COOLANT
You want to only use the green coolant. They have it at Napa and it meets 1825M GM Spec.

For Zerex the first gallon is called Regular Green Coolant (GM 1825M), the second gallon is called Original Formula (GM 1825M). Zerex ZXRU1 is 50-50 and Zerex ZX001 is undiluted. The third gallon is NAPA coolant (GM 1825M).
http://partimages.genpt.com/partimages/213991.jpgORhttp://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31jb-ZubjrL.jpgORhttp://partimages.genpt.com/partimages/213967.jpg
NAPA (http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?R=NAF1GAL_0006411522)

[-=Jeff=-]

I got my last T-Stat at Rock auto. I did the swap in the car, I had to unbolt the T-stat but I had room where I didn't have to completely remove it..

[Livin' in the 80's]

Stants from Jerry or Marc.

I never drill holes in the Stant 180 deg Thermostat as that offers very little (1.6%) increase in coolant flow.

LT5/ZR-1 Fluids (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp.html#post1580070550)

RADIATOR COOLANT
You want to only use the green coolant. They have it at Napa and it meets 1825M GM Spec.

For Zerex the first gallon is called Regular Green Coolant (GM 1825M), the second gallon is called Original Formula (GM 1825M). Zerex ZXRU1 is 50-50 and Zerex ZX001 is undiluted. The third gallon is NAPA coolant (GM 1825M).
http://partimages.genpt.com/partimages/213991.jpgORhttp://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31jb-ZubjrL.jpgORhttp://partimages.genpt.com/partimages/213967.jpg
NAPA (http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?R=NAF1GAL_0006411522)

Any Idea on the Capacity of the cooling system?

[Dynomite]

Initial fill is 18 quarts but on refill depending on how much you drain two gallons or less should be close.


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[5ABI VT]

I don't know much about stats but it surprises me no one still makes them. Cant these be modifiied with different springs and such to open earlier? That was my plan I was going to post about this as well.. to find a 160- stat similar in dimensions or spring dimensions and just swap the spring out and weld it back together :confused:

[A26B]

Why do you want a 160F t-stat?

What do you expect the result to be from a t-stat that opens earlier, i.e. lower temp?

[XfireZ51]

Read this thread on thermostats. Installation of a Fluidyne radiator caused cooling issues in particular in cold climates. As Gerry states a bypass hole provides more rapid cooling.

You can follow the results I got here:

http://zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=27081&highlight=thermostat

[5ABI VT]

Why do you want a 160F t-stat?

What do you expect the result to be from a t-stat that opens earlier, i.e. lower temp?

Cooler temps on the freeway.

[XfireZ51]

Cooler temps on the freeway.


You really want to run at >-= 80C for coolant temps. That's where the calibration is in Closed Loop and LEARN is ON.

[5ABI VT]

don't necessarily need 160 just would prefer something a little cooler than the oem stat.

[XfireZ51]

don't necessarily need 160 just would prefer something a little cooler than the oem stat.

I guess the question is still "What's the result u r looking for?" If the motor is running at about 185F-190 or so, that's where it needs to be.

[Livin' in the 80's]

I ordered the Stant 14068 thermostat and it doesn't look like the one that is posted. Here is a picture of it. Should I still install it or should I try to order it from somewhere else? The first three pics are the one I ordered and the last is the one that is on ZR-1 Specialist website. I don't want to do this job twice or screw the car up. Thoughts?

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/craigwhite84/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/Thermostat2_zpsmblareep.jpg (http://s653.photobucket.com/user/craigwhite84/media/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/Thermostat2_zpsmblareep.jpg.html)

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/craigwhite84/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/Thermostat1_zpsmyassatz.jpg (http://s653.photobucket.com/user/craigwhite84/media/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/Thermostat1_zpsmyassatz.jpg.html)

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/craigwhite84/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/Thermostat_zpss4yfhfwy.jpg (http://s653.photobucket.com/user/craigwhite84/media/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/Thermostat_zpss4yfhfwy.jpg.html)

This is what is posted on Jerry's sight:

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/craigwhite84/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/Thermostat3_zpslgm2zx0o.jpg (http://s653.photobucket.com/user/craigwhite84/media/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/Thermostat3_zpslgm2zx0o.jpg.html)

[A26B]

Don't install the one in your 2nd & 3rd photos.

Getting the wrong part in the right box is not uncommon. Between that problem & incorrectly identifying parts as LT5 compatible, it can be a real problem sometimes.

[XfireZ51]

I bought a thermo from Jerry just to avoid any "agida" later on.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Stants from Jerry or Marc.



I never drill holes in the Stant 180 deg Thermostat as that offers very little (1.6%) increase in coolant flow.



LT5/ZR-1 Fluids (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp.html#post1580070550)



RADIATOR COOLANT

You want to only use the green coolant. They have it at Napa and it meets 1825M GM Spec.



For Zerex the first gallon is called Regular Green Coolant (GM 1825M), the second gallon is called Original Formula (GM 1825M). Zerex ZXRU1 is 50-50 and Zerex ZX001 is undiluted. The third gallon is NAPA coolant (GM 1825M).

http://partimages.genpt.com/partimages/213991.jpgORhttp://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31jb-ZubjrL.jpgORhttp://partimages.genpt.com/partimages/213967.jpg

NAPA (http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?R=NAF1GAL_0006411522)


All I could find here in Japan at the Navy base Autoport are these:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/a1eec083345fdaf25af22288462062cb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/613419951b50bd8de58e158ed0d0a2f3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/3bd93ab95fee784bacd0b10bcfb57218.jpg

None of them state GM 1825M. I'll have to check manufacturer's website for more details.


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[A26B]

I bought a thermo from Jerry just to avoid any "agida" later on.

Grazie Dom! That's the best compliment one could ask for!

[Livin' in the 80's]

Grazie Dom! That's the best compliment one could ask for!

Just ordered the correct one from Jerry's Thanks Jerry

[Livin' in the 80's]

All I could find here in Japan at the Navy base Autoport are these:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/a1eec083345fdaf25af22288462062cb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/613419951b50bd8de58e158ed0d0a2f3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/3bd93ab95fee784bacd0b10bcfb57218.jpg

None of them state GM 1825M. I'll have to check manufacturer's website for more details.


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I just emailed Stephen Woodward at Prestone and asked if it meets the GM spec.

[Livin' in the 80's]

I just emailed Stephen Woodward at Prestone and asked if it meets the GM spec.

Here is a frequently asked questions section at Prestone http://ca.prestone.com/enca/learn_more/frequently_asked_questions


Q:
What automobile industry specifications do your antifreezes meet or exceed?
A:
Prestone® Antifreeze/Coolant meets or exceeds the performance requirements of the following specifications:
ASTM D3306
SAE J1034
GM 1825M
Ford ESE M97B44-A
Chrysler MS7170
General Services Administration CID A-A-52624

[Livin' in the 80's]

Here is a frequently asked questions section at Prestone http://ca.prestone.com/enca/learn_more/frequently_asked_questions


Q:
What automobile industry specifications do your antifreezes meet or exceed?
A:
Prestone® Antifreeze/Coolant meets or exceeds the performance requirements of the following specifications:
ASTM D3306
SAE J1034
GM 1825M
Ford ESE M97B44-A
Chrysler MS7170
General Services Administration CID A-A-52624


This is the Canadian Q&A. The US Q&A section doesn't show this. Will wait to hear from Prestone.

[XfireZ51]

I just emailed Stephen Woodward at Prestone and asked if it meets the GM spec.

Both of those have been in my coolong system with no issues.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

I just emailed Stephen Woodward at Prestone and asked if it meets the GM spec.


Thanks. I was going to do the same when I researched Prestone of Q&As this AM to be sure. Not sure why they don't list it on the container. Doing a search on Peak website only one of their products is indicated with GM 1825M spec for our cars called Ready Use Green.


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[HAWAIIZR-1]

Both of those have been in my coolong system with no issues.


Thanks for confirming. I know I used standard Prestone before in the past. It might be my only choice here.


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[Livin' in the 80's]

Initial fill is 18 quarts but on refill depending on how much you drain two gallons or less should be close.


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So, 2 gallons of concentrate and a total or 4 gallons mixed.

[Dynomite]

So, 2 gallons of concentrate and a total or 4 gallons mixed.

Depends on how much you drained......and depends on the concentration before and the concentration you now want (Low Temperature Protection).

I usually go for -20 deg more or less with Zs not driven in winter but under cover in shed/garage. If you are in warmer climate you may go a bit less antifreeze but anti freeze also does serve multiple purposes (anti rust, raises boiling temperature) in addition to obvious protection from freezing temperatures. I usually will refill with a gallon or a bit more of antifreeze and about gallon or bit less distilled water then top off white plastic overflow container under passenger headlight with pure antifreeze within an inch or two of top of that plastic reservoir. This is if you only removed a bit of coolant for Plenum Removal...I have TB coolant blocked so do not have to remove any coolant for Plenum removal.

Which white plastic reservoir I check after each of two or three heating cycles to make sure it is still topped off. I check before and after refilling/re-filling with 5 ball tester (I recall) and shoot for 3-1/2 balls floating (that is 3 balls floating and the 4th ball in suspension).

3 balls floating.......-10 deg F and +261 deg F
4 balls floating.......-25 deg F and +266 deg F

Now if you drained more coolant as in replaced water pump and radiator.....use more than 2 gallons approaching 3-1/2 gallons coolant more or less. If you removed engine and are now replacing coolant......use more than 3 gallons.....maybe approaching 4 gallons more or less of coolant. but do remember to go through several heating cycles after coolant replacement to top off with in 2 inches of top of that plastic coolant overflow under passenger headlight. You fill the coolant using the Top Black Reservoir just in front of the passenger side windshield under the hood.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31jb-ZubjrL.jpgORhttp://partimages.genpt.com/partimages/213967.jpg

[Livin' in the 80's]

Depends on how much you drained......and depends on the concentration before and the concentration you now want (Low Temperature Protection).

I usually go for -20 deg more or less with Zs not driven in winter but under cover in shed/garage. If you are in warmer climate you may go a bit less antifreeze but anti freeze also does serve multiple purposes (anti rust, raises boiling temperature) in addition to obvious protection from freezing temperatures. I usually will refill with a gallon or a bit more of antifreeze and about gallon or bit less distilled water then top off white plastic overflow container under passenger headlight with pure antifreeze within an inch or two of top of that plastic reservoir. This is if you only removed a bit of coolant for Plenum Removal...I have TB coolant blocked so do not have to remove any coolant for Plenum removal.

Which white plastic reservoir I check after each of two or three heating cycles to make sure it is still topped off. I check before and after refilling/re-filling with 5 ball tester (I recall) and shoot for 3-1/2 balls floating (that is 3 balls floating and the 4th ball in suspension).

3 balls floating.......-10 deg F and +261 deg F
4 balls floating.......-25 deg F and +266 deg F

Now if you drained more coolant as in replaced water pump and radiator.....use more than 2 gallons approaching 3-1/2 gallons coolant more or less. If you removed engine and are now replacing coolant......use more than 3 gallons.....maybe approaching 4 gallons more or less of coolant. but do remember to go through several heating cycles after coolant replacement to top off with in 2 inches of top of that plastic coolant overflow under passenger headlight. You fill the coolant using the Top Black Reservoir just in front of the passenger side windshield under the hood.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31jb-ZubjrL.jpgORhttp://partimages.genpt.com/partimages/213967.jpg

I am only replacing the thermostat. I would think that this will pretty much drain the entire system as the housing is mounted low on the frame rail. No?

[Dynomite]

I am only replacing the thermostat. I would think that this will pretty much drain the entire system as the housing is mounted low on the frame rail. No?

No.......there is coolant trapped around the cylinder liners and in other places in the engine simply because the water pump is higher than the thermostat as well as coolant trapped on ALL wetted areas of the Coolant System. The Engine coolant can only drain from a removed thermostat through the water pump. Also the inside of the radiator is not dry...it is wet and coolant still resides in an otherwise drained radiator. And....you have the Heater Core which holds coolant including the Heater hoses.

[XfireZ51]

My experience w thermostats, Fluidyne rad, and 1/8" holes was documented
here:
http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=27081&highlight=Thermostat

My particular issue began w installation of Fluidyne and driving in colder climes. At ambient temps of anything below 55F, I could not keep temps up. The coolant temp continues to drop whenever driving. Coolant temp would increase at idle.
On any drive it became necessary to cruise in 5th rather than 6th just to keep coolant temp up. Once into the summer driving season, the issue resolved itself. Some specifics. Fluidyne rad, 180F thermo w 4 1/8" holes, underdrive pulleys.
I ultimately bought another stock thermo from Jerry, and put in 2. 1/8" holes.
Temps at cruise stabilized at 185-190F in cold weather. Idle temps will creep up slowly but I surmise that's due to the underdrive pulleys. I think it could become an issue in the more severe driving conditions of hot, crawling traffic.

[Livin' in the 80's]

I just emailed Stephen Woodward at Prestone and asked if it meets the GM spec.

Here is the response I got from Prestone:

Good Morning Craig,

GM 1825M is an old specification for standard, conventional green antifreeze. We recommend the Prestone Antifreeze/Coolant in the yellow jug for any application calling for that specification, but you could also use the Prime Conventional Green Antifreeze/Coolant if you want a coolant that more closely resembles the factory fluid. Please let me know if you require anything further.

Sincerely,

Aaron Jones
Prestone Consumer Relations Representative
Phone: 203-731-8191
cid:image001.png@01CDC249.2F757380

[Livin' in the 80's]

I just talked to Stant and the 14068 is now discontinued. More to come.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Here is the response I got from Prestone:



Good Morning Craig,



GM 1825M is an old specification for standard, conventional green antifreeze. We recommend the Prestone Antifreeze/Coolant in the yellow jug for any application calling for that specification, but you could also use the Prime Conventional Green Antifreeze/Coolant if you want a coolant that more closely resembles the factory fluid. Please let me know if you require anything further.



Sincerely,



Aaron Jones

Prestone Consumer Relations Representative

Phone: 203-731-8191

cid:image001.png@01CDC249.2F757380


Thanks fir sharing. I'm going to check one more source here and might have to settle for this one. Now, to drill or not to drill...that is the question.


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[Roadster]

I just talked to Stant and the 14068 is now discontinued. More to come.

Jerry's has them in stock according to his web site. There are units available with the gasket shown on ebay and supposedly Gates 33068 is an exact duplicate of the Stant 14068. So there are parts still available.

[Livin' in the 80's]

Jerry's has them in stock according to his web site. There are units available with the gasket shown on ebay and supposedly Gates 33068 is an exact duplicate of the Stant 14068. So there are parts still available.

The ones on ebay are not the correct ones. Ordered one and sent it back.

[Dynomite]

Summit Racing has 180 deg Stant 14068 thermostat as does Marc......they are not in stock at Summit and will be shipped directly from manufacturer. I ordered one to test the market :D


Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)

[Roadster]

Funny you should mention that I did the same thing from the PepBoys online store for the Stant and the Gates version from an eBay retailer.....should be interesting.....

Sent from my SM-G935P using ZR-1 Net Registry mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)

[Roadster]

I stand corrected on the Gates thermostat order, I ordered that unit from Rock Auto and it was delivered today. I think it was their last one in stock. In the following pics there is one Stant stat, which I have had after I purchased the Z. And the other stat is the Gates unit. To me, they are just about identical, with a very slight variation of the thickness of the two coils, and the amount of winding in said coils. They both have the gasket (also with a slight variation), they are both are stamped USA, and 44.MM. Also have same manufacturing markings (I assume) on each one. I would also assume that these were made for both the Stant and Gates product line, with a very slight variation to distinguish the different companies from one another....There is another Stant stat to be delivered on Friday from the Pepboys online store. So we shall see, also will be interesting to see what Cliff gets delivered...

LS Stant...RS Gates
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p138/SSROADSTER/94%20ZR-1/afd88893-7524-489e-b8be-d706bde183f9.jpg (http://s127.photobucket.com/user/SSROADSTER/media/94%20ZR-1/afd88893-7524-489e-b8be-d706bde183f9.jpg.html)
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p138/SSROADSTER/94%20ZR-1/20170405_175023.jpg (http://s127.photobucket.com/user/SSROADSTER/media/94%20ZR-1/20170405_175023.jpg.html)
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p138/SSROADSTER/94%20ZR-1/20170405_175119.jpg (http://s127.photobucket.com/user/SSROADSTER/media/94%20ZR-1/20170405_175119.jpg.html)

[Dynomite]

Thank you Sir........I will do some testing for opening temp, full open area, and bottom release pressure. Maybe tomarrow.

The two lower springs seem a bit different in your photo but nothing like the difference Marc found when he got one or two with several others that had less than 5 lbs bottom spring opening pressure at .5" opening.

I am shooting for 180 deg Thermostat opening at 175 deg and full open at 185 deg with .785 square inch full opening.



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[Roadster]

take a photo of other end. I will do the same testing for opening temp, full open area, and bottom release pressure. Maybe tomarrow.



Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)

Either your reading my mind, or I'm reading yours......:) That's exactly what I was doing after I posted.....lol
Upon further investigation, you will notice in the following pics, that each stat has the words "TOP RAD" on one side under the gasket and "PATENTED" on the other side...interesting.....also take note of markings on the gasket from Stant and no markings on the gasket from Gates....and the rotation of the coils are L to R on one and R to L on the other on the bottom set of coils....
Yes, I know, I have way too much time......lol ahhh being retired.....lol
Oh, and one more thing, the Gates gasket is ever so slightly thicker and wider than the Stant gasket, covers the stat slightly more...

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p138/SSROADSTER/94%20ZR-1/20170405_191002.jpg (http://s127.photobucket.com/user/SSROADSTER/media/94%20ZR-1/20170405_191002.jpg.html)
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p138/SSROADSTER/94%20ZR-1/7aa977b7-f8b7-4681-92d4-8d2634553328.jpg (http://s127.photobucket.com/user/SSROADSTER/media/94%20ZR-1/7aa977b7-f8b7-4681-92d4-8d2634553328.jpg.html)
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p138/SSROADSTER/94%20ZR-1/60d82d5f-8a38-4bd0-8ee6-0c7b5718bb82.jpg (http://s127.photobucket.com/user/SSROADSTER/media/94%20ZR-1/60d82d5f-8a38-4bd0-8ee6-0c7b5718bb82.jpg.html)

[Dynomite]

I will try to keep up with you tomarrow :D

I think the full open area of thermostat is approximately .785 square inches and a 1-1/2 inch hose has an area of about 1.75 square inches and radiator head loss might be minimal for aluminum radiator but guessing. Thermostat seems to be hold up on coolant flow even when wide open. one way to check that is to remove thermostat on 100 deg day but that is not possible without removing the radiator Bypass Function also which would not be a good idea. Removing the thermostat would allow the bypass function to be completely open at all times bypassing the radiator with considerable coolant flow.



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[Roadster]

Just received delivery a few minutes ago for the Stant stat from the PepBoys online store. Some interesting notations....the box is smaller, the box does say Made In America, but the stat does not. So is just the box Made In America and not the stat??? On the stat itself, it does not have USA or 44.MM stamped on the top as the other two have stamped. But it does have the "manufacturing" markings stamped on the top . And it also has
"TOP RAD" & "PATENTED" stamped in the same places as the others. But again I would question where it is really made!!! And the lower spring coil is the same as the previous Stant stat and is rotated in the same direction, as mentioned above. Overall they look identical, and the spring pressure on all 3 units feels basically the same. I don't think that anyone using any of the ones shown here would be a problem.
So my conclusion is yes these are still available from different sources and it would be a good idea to maybe purchase 1 or 2 for the future. JMO
There may be ebay sellers who have or don't have the correct part in the box, even though the correct part # is listed on their listing(s), either for the Stant or Gates units.
Another side note is that the gasket being used is very close to or exactly the same gasket that is on the Gates stat and not looking like anywhere near the older Stant stat shown above in a previous post.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p138/SSROADSTER/94%20ZR-1/e25e535e-9ab4-4484-b068-91ddf6f198cb.jpg (http://s127.photobucket.com/user/SSROADSTER/media/94%20ZR-1/e25e535e-9ab4-4484-b068-91ddf6f198cb.jpg.html)
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p138/SSROADSTER/94%20ZR-1/df4f5755-397c-44bf-948c-867dbb9c73b5.jpg (http://s127.photobucket.com/user/SSROADSTER/media/94%20ZR-1/df4f5755-397c-44bf-948c-867dbb9c73b5.jpg.html)
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p138/SSROADSTER/94%20ZR-1/20170406_101531.jpg (http://s127.photobucket.com/user/SSROADSTER/media/94%20ZR-1/20170406_101531.jpg.html)
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p138/SSROADSTER/94%20ZR-1/20170406_101537.jpg (http://s127.photobucket.com/user/SSROADSTER/media/94%20ZR-1/20170406_101537.jpg.html)
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p138/SSROADSTER/94%20ZR-1/20170406_101651.jpg (http://s127.photobucket.com/user/SSROADSTER/media/94%20ZR-1/20170406_101651.jpg.html)

[Dynomite]

The thermostat did not arrive....it was registry membership kit:D

Do you have one of those cooking thermometers ?

I use one of those in a soup pan with thermostats in water on the stove and keep the fire on the pan watching for opening and complete opening. I then heat it up a bit more so the opening stays while I measure the opening (which is not so easy but can be done).

I assume all your thermostats are rated 180 deg? It would be interesting testing the opening temperature and full open temperature as well as the full opening area which I will do on the Summit Thermostat.

Also what are the sources and associated prices including shipping for your new thermostats and shipping time?

The used Stants tested so far would be fully open with a flow area of approximately .785 square inches at 185 deg F.



Thermostat opening at 175 deg F....................................Thermostat opening at 185 deg F (Full Open)

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite21/2c0d5927-b56a-4e41-85ff-21541858daf1.jpghttp://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite21/e4d4f2ae-9950-4ecd-a40e-b545bbae5c78.jpg

[Roadster]

Just asked my wife for the cooking thermometer, we may have one, but she don't know if it still works....:o
And yes all of the stats are the 180 degree units. If we can find the cooking thermo and if it works lol, I can also check temps for opening and complete opening.
IIRC the FSM mentioned that the stat opens partially @180 degrees and fully opens at 195-200 degrees. I see that you are finding that they open partially @175*.

First Stant 14068 180* ordered 3 years ago, would have to look up cost....

Gates #33068 180* from Rock Auto (last one)
Cost..........................$14.01
Cost other part.............$4.04
Shipping......................$3.99
Total..........................$22.04
ordered 3-31 delivered 4-5

Stant #14068 180* from PepBoys online store which was through ebay
Cost.........................$16.19 USD
Shipping and handling $5.00 USD
Tax.......................... $1.28 USD
Total shipped.............$22.47 USD
ordered 4-3 delivered 4-6

notice that both part #'s end in the #68.......

[Livin' in the 80's]

OK. Here is the deal. I changed the thermostat today. It was way easier than I thought. The housing is against the frame and is easily accessed from the bottom. I drained exactly two gallons and about 6 ounces out when I pulled apart the thermostat housing. I used a shallow tote and poured the antifreeze into containers to measure what came out. The pain was the spring kept the thermostat out about a 1/8" when installing. There is a problem with the thermostat that I pulled out. Can you see the problem?

Can't believe they ripped out the upper spring.
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/craigwhite84/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/IMG_0593_zpserost8zi.jpg (http://s653.photobucket.com/user/craigwhite84/media/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/IMG_0593_zpserost8zi.jpg.html)

Here are some pics of the housing from underneath.

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/craigwhite84/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/IMG_0591_zpswnjve9qo.jpg (http://s653.photobucket.com/user/craigwhite84/media/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/IMG_0591_zpswnjve9qo.jpg.html)

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/craigwhite84/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/IMG_0589_zpsfctzwzzm.jpg (http://s653.photobucket.com/user/craigwhite84/media/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/IMG_0589_zpsfctzwzzm.jpg.html)

I used a Tote

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/craigwhite84/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/IMG_0592_zpsizmxczva.jpg (http://s653.photobucket.com/user/craigwhite84/media/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/IMG_0592_zpsizmxczva.jpg.html)

Here she is cleaned up at the lake.

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/craigwhite84/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/IMG_0598_zpsneoxzpo8.jpg (http://s653.photobucket.com/user/craigwhite84/media/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/IMG_0598_zpsneoxzpo8.jpg.html)

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/craigwhite84/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/IMG_0595_zps014i1z4d.jpg (http://s653.photobucket.com/user/craigwhite84/media/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/IMG_0595_zps014i1z4d.jpg.html)

[Roadster]

OK. Here is the deal. I changed the thermostat today. It was way easier than I thought. The housing is against the frame and is easily accessed from the bottom. I drained exactly two gallons and about 6 ounces out when I pulled apart the thermostat housing. I used a shallow tote and poured the antifreeze into containers to measure what came out. The pain was the spring kept the thermostat out about a 1/8" when installing. There is a problem with the thermostat that I pulled out. Can you see the problem?

Can't believe they ripped out the upper spring.
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/craigwhite84/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/IMG_0593_zpserost8zi.jpg (http://s653.photobucket.com/user/craigwhite84/media/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/IMG_0593_zpserost8zi.jpg.html)

Wow, they did some serious surgery on that stat....
Good idea with the tote and great pics....
And I assume the engine is running just fine!!!

[Dynomite]

The pain was the spring kept the thermostat out about a 1/8" when installing.That is what the putty knife is for There is a problem with the thermostat that I pulled out. Can you see the problem?Yes......you have a nice gasket on the old thermostat and no gasket on the new thermostat ;)
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/craigwhite84/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/IMG_0593_zpserost8zi.jpg



That is what I call a FAILED Thermostat. It appears the thermostat was open all the time and further.....the lower spring pressure to keep from recirculating was near zero.

[Livin' in the 80's]

Wow, they did some serious surgery on that stat....
Good idea with the tote and great pics....
And I assume the engine is running just fine!!!

I took my wife to diner after the surgery and the new t stat works great. I drilled two 7/64 ths holes because i didn't have an 1/8" bit. I filled with green coolant and blew into sys until all bubbles came out-pulled off hoses at the the t body to burp.

I love this car for sure! I smile every time i drive it.

[A26B]

That is what I call a FAILED Thermostat. It appears the thermostat was open all the time and further.....the lower spring pressure to keep from recirculating was near zero.

I agree, "butchered" comes to mind. Bypass spring pressure would have been the same when the thermostat was restricted to the confines of the t-stat housing, bypass valve seated and gooseneck installed.

Without the top valve spring to hold the valve closed like the new one on the right, the Bypass spring has the t-stat valve shaft at maximum extension. Bypass spring looks the same, 6 coils, same gauge wire. You probably see the same extension when you "cook" a t-stat to test it.

Picture is sort of an optical illusion.

[Dynomite]

Bypass spring pressure would have been the same when the thermostat was restricted to the confines of the t-stat housing, bypass valve seated and gooseneck installed.

Without the top valve spring to hold the valve closed like the new one on the right, the Bypass spring has the t-stat valve shaft at maximum extension. Bypass spring looks the same, 6 coils, same gauge wire. You probably see the same extension when you "cook" a t-stat to test it.

Picture is sort of an optical illusion.
Yep.....you are correct on the bypass spring being pushed back compressing the spring once in the housing. I do not think correctly this time of night.

It does look like that top spring is missing which must have been by someone who wanted to maintain the recirculating function but have a wide open thermostat. That is the trouble of those thinking they can just remove the thermostat completely which cannot be done because of the resulting recirculation. They do not realize a lot of coolant would then always bypass the radiator.

[A26B]

Yep.....you are correct on the bypass spring being pushed back compressing the spring once in the housing. I do not think correctly this time of night.
You think that was a modified thermostat or failed thermostat??
It does look like that top spring is not complete.

Looks like the whole spring is gone to me. I think what may look like a black coil of spring is actually the valve rubber seal on the od. Looks like it has been cut or extruded around the metal on the right side.

I think it was modified. Someone cut the coils & removed it.... at least I hope so:cheers:

[Dynomite]

Looks like the whole spring is gone to me. I think what may look like a black coil of spring is actually the valve rubber seal on the od. Looks like it has been cut or extruded around the metal on the right side.

I think it was modified. Someone cut the coils & removed it.... at least I hope so:cheers:

I was thinking and editing and you caught me in the middle :sign10:

At least the modification someone did to that left thermostat makes a lot more sense than eliminating the thermostat. I wonder how that modified thermostat performed when 100 deg ambient...that would have been interesting as the open area was definitely greater than a stock thermostat when full open at say 185 deg or a bit higher.
That is a test I would like to do sometime leaving the recirculating function in place.

I could take one of my older stant thermostats and modify it as shown on the left and measure that open area as a start to see what can be done compared to a stock thermostat. There WILL be more flow through the radiator and probably less radiator pressure because of the reduced resistance to flow as compared to the stock thermostat with a smaller Full Open area.

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/craigwhite84/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/IMG_0593_zpserost8zi.jpg

OK. Here is the deal. I changed the thermostat today.
Do you have any data on engine temperatures and ambient temperatures and other conditions running with that modified thermostat you removed?

[Livin' in the 80's]

I was thinking and editing and you caught me in the middle :sign10:

At least the modification someone did to that left thermostat makes a lot more sense than eliminating the thermostat. I wonder how that modified thermostat performed when 100 deg ambient...that would have been interesting as the open area was definitely greater than a stock thermostat when full open at say 185 deg or a bit higher.
That is a test I would like to do sometime leaving the recirculating function in place.

I could take one of my older stant thermostats and modify it as shown on the left and measure that open area as a start to see what can be done compared to a stock thermostat. There WILL be more flow through the radiator and probably less radiator pressure because of the reduced resistance to flow as compared to the stock thermostat with a smaller Full Open area.

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/craigwhite84/Snapbucket/1990%20Corvette%20ZR1%20Black%20on%20Black/IMG_0593_zpserost8zi.jpg


Do you have any data on engine temperatures and ambient temperatures and other conditions running with that modified thermostat you removed?

I didn't drive it too much as the engine temp was extremely low. The ambient temp was between 30 degrees and 50 degrees. The temp gauge read maybe a needle width above the 100 degree line when driving it. If you let the car idle for 15 minutes, it would come up about 1/4 of the gauge and return just over 100 degrees after driving it a short distance. Someone definitely took the spring out when they installed it. I found no evidence of the spring anywhere in the housing.

[Livin' in the 80's]

I test drove the car at temperature and there are some clear issues with the SuperChips PROM. It still backfires on decel and the fans run all of the time with the climate control off. It also seems to run rich. I will be ordering the PROM from Marc. Holy crap this car is fast-I still have a perm-a-grin from yesterday.

[Livin' in the 80's]

That is what I call a FAILED Thermostat. It appears the thermostat was open all the time and further.....the lower spring pressure to keep from recirculating was near zero.

The new thermostat is from Jerry and it does have a gasket on it. It is a little different of a design and has a rubber sharp lip on it. It appears as not having a gasket, but it is there if you look close. I used a thin scraper to hold the thermostat in while I got the housing in place. I then crossed my fingers that it was in place correctly. It doesn't leak, so we are all good.

[rush91]

I test drove the car at temperature and there are some clear issues with the SuperChips PROM. It still backfires on decel and the fans run all of the time with the climate control off. It also seems to run rich. I will be ordering the PROM from Marc. Holy crap this car is fast-I still have a perm-a-grin from yesterday.



I would throw that SuperChip PROM in the trash.....I just got my PROM back from Marc and wowie!!!! The car idles better, doesn't have the hard restart issue, no 1-4 shift, and seems to have more torque down low.

[Livin' in the 80's]

I would throw that SuperChip PROM in the trash.....I just got my PROM back from Marc and wowie!!!! The car idles better, doesn't have the hard restart issue, no 1-4 shift, and seems to have more torque down low.

It will be ordered today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[A26B]

Whoa! Don't throw the Super Chip Prom in the trash. That's like throwing $50 away. Proms can be cleared & reprogrammed.

[Livin' in the 80's]

Whoa! Don't throw the Super Chip Prom in the trash. That's like throwing $50 away. Proms can be cleared & reprogrammed.

No. I am going to send to Marc as a core.

[XfireZ51]

No. I am going to send to Marc as a core.

Actually it would be interesting to first read it to see what they did if much of anything. Its a 90 chip so a knock sensor circuit would need to be added in order to use it for anything else.

[rush91]

Whoa! Don't throw the Super Chip Prom in the trash. That's like throwing $50 away. Proms can be cleared & reprogrammed.



I didn't mean to literally throw the PROM in the trash, come on guys!!
$50 is $50, but why have a chip in your car you don't know what it's doing. Be safe and go with Marc.....Did that Superchip come in the car when purchased?

[Livin' in the 80's]

I didn't mean to literally throw the PROM in the trash, come on guys!!
$50 is $50, but why have a chip in your car you don't know what it's doing. Be safe and go with Marc.....Did that Superchip come in the car when purchased?

The Superchip came with the car.

[rush91]

The Superchip came with the car.

Ahhhh ok.... I'm sure that is an older PROM. As Marc told me, as with any computer, you want the newest updates and programs. Which makes perfect sense. You are going to see and feel a difference

[Livin' in the 80's]

Ahhhh ok.... I'm sure that is an older PROM. As Marc told me, as with any computer, you want the newest updates and programs. Which makes perfect sense. You are going to see and feel a difference

I just got off the phone with Marc and I am sending my PROM to him today. Only problem is I won't be able to drive the car for a week.:(

[Livin' in the 80's]

Actually it would be interesting to first read it to see what they did if much of anything. Its a 90 chip so a knock sensor circuit would need to be added in order to use it for anything else.

Marc Haibeck will have it Wednesday. Maybe contact him and see if he can read it and save the information for the record. The fans stayed on 100 percent of the time, the shift light still works, and full power key still works. It backfires like mad.

[XfireZ51]

If the fans are on all the time, sounds like the checksum was disabled.

[Livin' in the 80's]

If the fans are on all the time, sounds like the checksum was disabled.

Marc said that was not a good thing because it will work like a vacuum while driving.

[XfireZ51]

Well it puts an unnecessary load on the motor.

[Livin' in the 80's]

Marc received my PROM today and I am hoping he does his updates and gets it back quick. I can send the old thermostat to whom ever wants it. Let me know.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Marc received my PROM today and I am hoping he does his updates and gets it back quick. I can send the old thermostat to whom ever wants it. Let me know.


You're in the best hands as customer service and turn around time does not get any better than Marc Haibeck. I hope all goes well and thanks for the updates.


Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry (https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=90383)

[Livin' in the 80's]

Just put Marc's PROM in the car. The test drive went great until about 5 miles in. The car pulled unbelievable until after 5 miles. Now it seems to have lost power and the secondary injectors don't seem like they are working. I stopped about a half of a mile away from my house and took a look. On my way back to my house the new crappy oil lines that I got form Zip blew up all over the car, my driveway, and garage. I am going to flip out on ZIP on Monday. I will be ordering Jerry's oil lines. The fans are still on all of the time too. UGH!!!
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