View Full Version : WTB advice please!!
jaykran
03-18-2017, 09:16 PM
Going to look at a 91 ZR1 next weekend and wanted to get some opinions from members on here.
It's a red on red 91 with 27k on it. It has the painted top only and no service records or any documentation. It is all original and apparently everything works and the car drive and looks new.
The owner has only owned it a year and a half.
Everything seemed good until he sent me the vin number and I did a carfax report on it. The car shows salvage in 91, seller says that the car was stolen from the dealership and insurance paid it out and when it was found after a year unharmed it got salvage.
I looked into it a little further and yes they do brand a car as salvage if stolen and insurance paid out before car was found.
After the car was found, it went through several auctions through its life and multiple owners. It was actually sold through Barrett Jackson in 09 and 11 and both times the description was that the car was like new and original.
My question to you guys is what do you think it's worth? How much does the value take a hit 1) by having salvage on the report 2) it has no documentation 3) it's moved around a lot in the 20 something years of its life.
One last thing the ownership does not brand it as salvage or rebuilt.
Let me know what you guys think, if I like the car and it the inspection comes back good, what do you think a fare value is?
george1945
03-19-2017, 01:15 AM
What ever you are willing to pay. It's going to need some work if you want a daily driver. Look it over well. Top and bottom. Figure a complete and total fluid drain/flush and refill. Injector replacement and complete tune up. Possible radio repairs. That will get you into a 5k bill real fast. Maybe a set of tires as well.
Z51JEFF
03-19-2017, 01:49 AM
I wouldn't buy it regardless of how cheap it is. Why didn't anybody say anything about the salvage title and is a dealer allowed to sell a salvage vehicle without divulging it was a salvage vehicle? Some may not have an issues with a car that's been salvaged but I do, whats the price on the car?
ZRXMAX
03-19-2017, 03:44 AM
It is a bit strange when something like this shows up. Your biggest concern should be condition and not so much the salvage title. You already explained what happened and if it can be verified through a close inspection... then... what harm is the salvage title if the car was never in an accident?
Now, if you are an investor, well, that could add a "stigma" to the car that indicates just how finicky people are when it comes to collector cars.
Lets say for a moment it was actually totaled and then repaired professionally and thus deserved a salvage title because the airbag went off.
It begs the question... if you parted it out how much money would it bring?
Some people say they would never buy it no matter what the reason is. Some people have higher levels of resistance... it is what it is... a 27,000 mile ZR-1 with a multiple owner history and a title that some people reject.
If I were you I would have it inspected and if it passed then make an offer you are comfortable with. If they don't accept your offer keep looking. Have you looked on the ZR-1 net website?
George45
03-19-2017, 11:28 AM
On my search for my first ZR1 I ran across a very nice looking white unit that was shown on several sites. It was slated for auction. The location was within a couple hundred miles. I was not willing to pay the dealer to see the car fax so I kept looking. Then I saw the car listed in California and they provided a free carfax on it. It was fairly low miles, under or around 20k. It was shown to have been side swiped with no air bag deployment. I then contacted the local dealer and they denied the report.to my knowledge the car may still be listed for sale.
But if you can really completely verify the car you are looking at and deal with the stigma you could potentially have a nice clean original driver. Can you verify it was not partially stripped and other than original parts used to replace the stolen items? Just be aware you may have a hard time should the need ever arise to resell it.
I ended up buying a documented all original Zr1 with 12k on it for just a little more than what was being asked for the local car and a dirty carfax.
jaykran
03-19-2017, 11:56 AM
Thanks for the replies.
I live in Canada and the exchange rate right now is ridicules. $20k US is $27-$28k Canadian. Also there is only 5 cars for sale in Canada that I can find and all except the one in question have more mileage then I'm looking for.
I'm thinking I can get a well documented 25,000 miles without a checkered past and all service and recommended updates (tern key) for $19-$20k.
Does that seem to be fair market value?
Hib Halverson
03-19-2017, 01:33 PM
If the existence of a salvage title was not disclosed in the first discussion you had and you discovered that fact in a Carfax search, I'd not buy the car because, up front, the seller concealed the fact that it was a salvage.
A sign of how unsafe buying, selling and auctioning can sometimes be is that it went though Barret/Jackson twice with sellers claiming it was "like new" and "original".
If you're still wiling to risk the purchase...I'd have a someone with a lot of experience inspect the car looking for 1) hidden collision damage and 2) look for the VIN stamped on various parts of the car making sure what's stamped there is the same as the VIN plate at the base of the left A-pillar.
jaykran
03-19-2017, 05:01 PM
In fairness to the seller he did tell me that the car was stolen and recovere, no mention of salvage though. There is a language barrier as he speaks little English and I speak no French.
I'm going to check it out next Sunday and if all looks good I will make an offer subject to full inspection.
mike100
03-19-2017, 11:20 PM
If you are a car keeper and not a car seller it could be a fair car if the price is right. I personally wouldn't likely take it because most people are concerned with clean title history and a niche car with a branded title becomes even more niche.
Z51JEFF
03-19-2017, 11:45 PM
If you are a car keeper and not a car seller it could be a fair car if the price is right. I personally wouldn't likely take it because most people are concerned with clean title history and a niche car with a branded title becomes even more niche.
In today's market $20,000 should be able to buy a very nice low mileage car. Keep in mind it's one thing to put money into a car and maybe get some of it out but it's just throwing money in a hole on a salvage car. You have the money,I'm sure somebody in the ZR-1 community can-will help you find the right car and maybe even help store it while you figure out how to get it home. Lee has a very nice 25,000 miles I think 92 he's selling with a few mods. There's somebody not too far from me in San Jose that's got a really nice white 91 with under 25,000 miles that keeps hinting at wanting to move up to a 405 H.P. car.
jaykran
03-24-2017, 09:05 PM
Two of the cars I am going to look at this week the sellers don't no if the injectors have been replaced.
Is there a way to know and check?
And if they haven't been replaced do I replace them or wait until needed?
jaykran
03-24-2017, 09:08 PM
Also I got a quote from a corvette specialist here in Toronto and he quoted $5000.
Mystic ZR-1
03-24-2017, 09:15 PM
Also I got a quote from a corvette specialist here in Toronto and he quoted $5000.
I guess he's planning on retirement after that job?
jaykran
03-24-2017, 09:24 PM
Lol that's what I was thinking.
Good because he kind of scared me off but was also being judgmental on the ZR1's.
I found that odd coming from a specialist.
jaykran
03-24-2017, 09:44 PM
What is the ballpark cost of changing them?
randy ransome
03-24-2017, 10:50 PM
If you change them yourself about $800 for the injectors and whatever a gasket kit cost.
:USFlag:
DRM500RUBYZR-1
03-24-2017, 10:53 PM
Typically, salvage titles list the reason for salvage, but not in all states.
Salvage - reconstructed wreck
- flood
- theft recovery
- insurance payout on damages
USUALLY, car-fax or car check picks up the reason for the salvage branding.
Branded cars vary in value reduction.
Flood is a killer, as you would expect, especially salt water flood!!!
Reconstructed is also bad but that can mean even a smaller accident.
Theft recovery leads people to think the car was "driven like you stole it", and is also perceived as bad.
Insurance payout is the most benign. Often this just means that the parts could not be located within a reasonable time, and the company and insured elected to settle via a payout in exchange for the "junk".
All of these affect the future value, as they cannot be easily hidden, thankfully, unlike in the old days.
It is distressing to hear that these cars MAY have been sold at auction absent disclosure of the title being branded.
In New Jersey, I would fear having my dealer license revoked for such behavior, and frankly, I would think that fair for such a lack of truthfulness, actually deceit.
The reductions in value are subjective, but they are forever.
Although when I had a branded theft recovery, carefully and fully disclosed, the new owner was thrilled that he was able to buy such a nice car for such a low price.
He had no care about future value, as he felt he made out buying it at the price that he paid.
I would say buyers like that are rare.
I would use your cash to buy the best car that your amount can buy.
That could include a salvage vehicle, but why do that when there are finer examples without the problems at roughly the same cost.
Injectors, coil packs, plug wires, plugs, starter, vacuum hoses and secondary components should not cost $5,000.00
More like $2200.00 to $3000.00 for parts and labor depending on parts used such as logo wires brand of coils, injectors, etc.
Good records command a premium!!!
Good luck with your search and buy!
:cheers:
Marty
Z51JEFF
03-24-2017, 11:54 PM
Also I got a quote from a corvette specialist here in Toronto and he quoted $5000.
Specialist,as in proctologist? Parts around $1,000 max and the injectors on all 90-92 pretty much will need to to be replaced if original. If I was going to do this job for somebody I'd charge maybe $500. Jerrys Gaskets has small parts and I got Accel injectors from Summit Racing for less than $750 for all 16. There are other options for injectors but this is just the brand I have. Replacing the plug wires and coils is something owners also replace once under the plenum but those are options as far as what the owner wants to replace once the plenum is off. Do you have any mechanical experience? When I bought my car and the injectors died having somebody else working on the car wasn't an option. I work on my own cars so I got the factory manual,rounded up the parts and dug in. I took plenty of pictures along the way and when I got stuck made a phone call or came here with a question.
XfireZ51
03-25-2017, 10:34 AM
Also I got a quote from a corvette specialist here in Toronto and he quoted $5000.
When u get the car bring it to Chicago and I'll do the job for half of that!!:saluting::dancing:dancing
5ABI VT
03-26-2017, 04:11 AM
Im in the GTA if you want original 94 injectors I was selling them for $200 usd. I put in the FIC stainless.. and there wasnt any difference. If you want Aftermarket make me an offer on the FIC and ill gladly go back to stock ;)
$5k is a joke. Buy some gaskets from Jerrys, and a $50 wratchet set from cdn tire and the job is just a matter of sitting on the tires for a few hours for the first time. :cheers:
jaykran
03-31-2017, 11:40 PM
Ok I pulled the trigger today and bought a ZR1!
It is a 1990 bright red metallic on beige with 29,000 km/ 18,000 miles.
Car is in very good condition, original Canadian car with clean carfax and two owners.
Drivers seat does not recline, radio works but very low to no noise coming out of the speakers and all the buttons on the climate control work except auto.
I did not get a chance to drive it as there was a blizzard here today but will drive before I take it home.
Car started right up, idled nicely and clutch felt good.
A few things of concern, I never drove a ZR1 before, how do I know if the secondary open? When I turn the key forward should I not hear a vacuum noise for about 5 seconds and then it shuts off? I did not hear it on this car. There is an aftermarket switch on the dash by your knee that turns on a fan in the engine compartment, the guy said he was told it was for hot days it cools something but was not exactly sure what. (he is going to try and look into it for me). One last thing when you turn the key forward all the warning lights should come on and then go out, anyone have a pick of all the lights that come on.
Thanks for any advice.
jaykran
04-01-2017, 01:39 AM
Sorry it's dark red metallic
Z51JEFF
04-01-2017, 02:04 AM
Congratulations! The vacuum pump will cycle for a few seconds and then shut off and cycle again after a short time,just how long varies. The switch for the fan should be eliminated and everything returned to stock,this was a popular addition but never seen it on a Z. The amps in the speakers die in pretty much all of these cars as well as the CDM controller for the stereo. To check to see if the vacuum pump is working unplug the pump and turn the key to on,not started and the pump will run. Locate the pump,follow the hard line up to the ALTERNATOR and there should be a coupling that will allow you to separate the 2 lines. The vacuum pump is down in the right side headlight well bolted to the frame. Not sure on a 90 but my 91 the line for the pump is routed like this. Welcome to the madness.
ZRXMAX
04-01-2017, 04:07 AM
When you turn the power key to the right a light will come on in the DIC ( driver information center ) that illuminates the words "Full Engine Power" . As long as you don't turn the key to the left to disable the full engine power mode
the car will stay in full engine power mode regardless of turning the engine off and restarting it anytime. The full engine power mode allows the activation of the secondary injectors once a certain level of throttle angle is applied and the
rpm are at or about 3500 and above. Other factors such as engine temperature and any codes that might come about that cause the check engine light to come on will also disable the operation of full engine power mode.
The owners manual will be handy for you to review and sort out the cars features and get the most enjoyment from your new Z. Congratulations and welcome to the addiction of turbine smooth power under your right foot!
Btw... Dark red metallic is a beautiful color imho !
george1945
04-01-2017, 10:24 AM
Great colors. For a good idea on the prices for repairs, go to thle Heibeck Web site. The car normally defaults to Valet mode when the car is turned off. Then you need to turn it to full power each time it is started. The Heibeck chip, is designed to default to full power. So you are required to turn the key to turn full power off. When the car is restarted, it then returns to full power. This feature keeps the secondary ports from getting carboned up. You will notice a HUGE difference between the two modes if you have any doubts about it working or not. The cars pull like a freight train in full power mode.
I will be adding the new chip on my 91. The 90 got it when I had it serviced by Heibeck before taking delivery.
I run hi test, non ethanol, in the 91 since it still has the original injectors and just the standard hi test with ethanol in the 90 since it got new injectors while at the Heibeck shop.
Above all, enjoy a fine and unique piece of Corvette history.
Bob Eyres
04-06-2017, 09:12 AM
Congrats on your new purchase.
BTW, on that aux. fan switch, I would leave it connected, but check out the function. If it's the same as mine, it is a three position small toggle switch. In the center position it defaults to the automatic (stock) function. In mine, the left position indicates single fan operation (there are two fans), and in the right position it turns both fans on. You can check this by listening with the engine off. This control comes in handy once in a while, especially here in the south.
I would leave it connected, as it's probably not in a place where it is obvious anyway, (except to NCRS scrutineers) :)
On that salvage title. After very careful examination there is always a price at which any car is a "good deal". But the price has to reflect the attitudes expressed above about salvage titles. It may make a car way harder to sell. But if you're a keeper, not a flipper, it might be a chance to get a car that's much better, and cheaper, than you thought you could afford. Just sayin' :thumbsup:
jaykran
04-06-2017, 09:27 AM
I took a pass on the salvage car, I plan on keeping it long enough that I shouldn't matter if it was salvage (Would anyone care if a 1958 Mercedes-Benz 300 SL Gullwing was mint but had a salvage title?). I passed on it because it wasn't as nice of condition as I was expecting, to many dings and scratches. The one I bought was two car owner, clean history, almost perfect condition (couple of small stone chips) and 15,000 less km on it. I paid $5000 more, to me that was a bargain.
DRM500RUBYZR-1
04-06-2017, 10:25 AM
GOOD Move!
$5,000.00 well spent!
There could have been far more than $5k in repairs on the other, and you still would have had a salvage car, that was also a shaggy dog.
Better to get the one you did!
Also, regarding your vacuum pump question, seems it was not answered.
The "key" that you turn on is the ignition key, not the valet key.
You turn the ignition key to on, not start.
When you do, you should hear the vacuum pump run.
It is located in front of the passenger side wheelhouse.
The pump should run for about 5 seconds and then shutoff.
If it does not shut off, you have a vacuum leak.
If it does not run at all, you have another problem, or you just started the car recently, and it has NO leaks, but that would be rare.
Dark Red Metallic is an excellent choice!
Enjoy your car, and Congratulations!
:cheers:
Marty
jaykran
04-06-2017, 10:32 AM
When I drive the car will I know if the vacuum working?
DRM500RUBYZR-1
04-06-2017, 10:34 AM
ABSOLUTELY!!!
George45
04-06-2017, 11:26 AM
Easiest to just raise the hood, get in the car and turn the ign. key to the on position. You will hear the pump. It will run for a few seconds and then stop if normal. After a few seconds it may run again. If it just runs continuous you have a major leak.it's pretty hard to find a car with "0" leakage. So it is ok if it runs for a couple of seconds, stops and then after a few seconds cycles again.My 91will initially run a few seconds, stop for about 5 seconds and then run for a second or two and then stop again.somewhere on the site there is a reference that gives a service note about what is acceptable for the pump cycle when it comes on and off.I never hear mine when I am driving but sure notice the difference when all 16 injectors are kicked in.
jaykran
04-06-2017, 03:22 PM
Haven't driven the car yet or a ZR1 for that matter. I have own a 1980 C3 and a 1992 C4 but it's been over 20 years since. I have driven a C5 Z06 and almost bought one but I just like the way the C4's feel. It's not a daily driver and I don't care about comfort, I have a car for that. I used to love driving my LT1, you crawl into and sit low and you feel like your in a race car.
I must say I'm very excited, I was supposed to pick it up today but the weather is crap so I'm going tomorrow morning. I will post some pics.
Z51JEFF
04-07-2017, 04:10 AM
On the off chance you do need a new vacuum pump you can find these for less than $120,GM used this pump on the KODIAK KICK truck,the only difference is the plug and the $400 others might charge for the stock ZR-1 pump.
DRM500RUBYZR-1
04-07-2017, 10:00 AM
On the off chance you do need a new vacuum pump you can find these for less than $120,GM used this pump on the KODIAK KICK truck,the only difference is the plug and the $400 others might charge for the stock ZR-1 pump.
Jeff,
Thanks for the tip!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I need to write that down somewhere.
VERY helpful!
:cheers:
Marty
Z51JEFF
04-07-2017, 11:58 AM
Jeff,
Thanks for the tip!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I need to write that down somewhere.
VERY helpful!
:cheers:
Marty
The plug at the wireing harness for 90s is different,91-95 are the same. If somebody needed this for a 90 and didn't want to cut the factory harness you could make a short sub harness to go between the 2 with OEM connectors.
jaykran
04-09-2017, 02:31 AM
Brought her home tonight, a nice 3 hour drive. What a car!!!
HAWAIIZR-1
04-09-2017, 02:49 AM
Brought her home tonight, a nice 3 hour drive. What a car!!!
Congratulations. Now you're hooked like the rest of us! Enjoy!
Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry (https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=90383)
efnfast
04-09-2017, 07:53 AM
I see you live with a dirt driveway. Corvette Central makes a set of filler plates for the area right behind the front tires. Fills in that great big hole right over the shock. These help a lot to keep dirt and dust out of the engine bay. - Steve
George45
04-09-2017, 11:56 AM
Now get out there and spend a few days getting to know every single nook and crany with a cleaning rag. Take her out for a spin and then clean it again. :)
lfalzarano
04-09-2017, 01:44 PM
I recommend you make some plexiglass mud flaps for all four wheel wells. The stones on the driveway will chip the lower sides. I make my own which are 10"W x 9" H and the tears are 12"W x 12"H. The clear plexiglass sheets are 1/16" thick and you'll need to replace them at least annually. The stone chips will fog them up, but your paint will remain flawless.
Mud flaps you can buy are too small for ZR-1 tires.
Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)
jaykran
04-10-2017, 11:02 PM
Ok I have put 1100 km on the car in 3 days!!!
Car drives perfect.
Everything thing works except the radio, no sound at all coming out of the speakers and the group of buttons for the range and trip ext, the group at the top right by the steering wheel, they don't light up at night.
Any suggestions on those two things? After market stereo is not an option as I would like to keep it original.
I am assuming that it's just a bulb behind the buttons, is it easy to fix.
Everything seems fine with the stereo just no sound or noise at all.
dredgeguy
04-11-2017, 12:07 AM
Send the radio out to:
Doctor Don's
Professional Audio Services
225 FM 247
Huntsville, Texas 77320
Tel: 936-435-1811
www.doctordons.com
He will make the radio better than new and you can also have him put an Aux input cable on so you can use XM radio or your phone. I put the XM radio in the center console so everything looks 100% stock.
Tell the Dr. I said hi and thanks for his excellent service. Give him a call, fun to speak with him.
Brought her home tonight, a nice 3 hour drive. What a car!!!
Congrats!
Arctic91
04-11-2017, 01:02 PM
Congratulations... great looking car!
Scott
jaykran
04-11-2017, 10:54 PM
Thanks guys!
Before I start taking apart the dash, the back lit buttons on the right side of the steering wheel beside the information screen don't illuminate. Is there a light bulb behind there or do I have to replace that bank of buttons?
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.