Is there a market for boosted application?

[Billy Mild]

I would love to have a ZR-1 stock engine'd LT5 that has a little boost added. I think putting a blower or turbo might be a great option. I seen a few threads, but no real action towards this goal. So the question is, can the engine handle it? Maybe something on E85 would make it easier to boost it.

I like the ZR1 Products approach a lot. Looks to keep A/C and powersteering intact. As far as I know there was no kit made. The biggest challenge is getting the mount made and then re-routing all the lines around it.

Thoughts on trying to work as a group to getting a few kits made?

[Vette73]

I think there is a thread a while back explaining how it could be done....Don't have the knowledge in this field but I don't think anyone makes it for the LT-5...

It's not like you can go to Summit and order one like you can for any other modern vette......You would think with an engine like this they would have one, but I guess since the limited number of LT-5s built it didn't seem profitable for a company to make one I guess...

[Billy Mild]

That is exactly the thinking, not enough demand to make the money back on R&D. If this was a community effort to help I think it might be doable. I was thinking of talking to the ZR1Products guy to see if they would share the designs of their kit. From there it would be a tuning challenge honestly. But there has to be demand for it.

The other option would be an intake manifold based supercharger similar to how the newer ZR1 was supercharged.

[RussMcB]

(I would not be interested, but, I'm curious...)

Why not just buy the ZR1 Products kit?

[Billy Mild]

(I would not be interested, but, I'm curious...)

Why not just buy the ZR1 Products kit?

They don't sell a kit anymore. Already inquired.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

The rear mounted turbos are and have been available for some time:
http://www.raptorllc.net/LT5.htm

Years ago I begged Randy Woods from SRP to make his supercharged system available. His one off car is or will be for sale. At the time he did not feel it was feasible to reproduce and market, but you could call him and ask. Super nice and knowledgeable guy to work with. I would be interested in a boosted application myself. It seems the amount of work to bring the CR down or applying small boost is not worth the cost and effort.


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[HAWAIIZR-1]

They don't sell a kit anymore. Already inquired.


Was there ever a kit sold? I did not think there ever was or folks would have jumped on it then for sure.


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[HAWAIIZR-1]

He has something like a 1,000 hp LM GTO and focus is on those cars now. I would love to buy his car if I had the bucks.


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[Billy Mild]

He has something like a 1,000 hp LM GTO and focus is on those cars now. I would love to buy his car if I had the bucks.


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Any idea on what he wants for his ZR1?

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Any idea on what he wants for his ZR1?


Sorry, I did not discuss a price with him since I knew I could not buy and ship to Japan. Give him a call to discuss. I imagine the 95 is mint cond coming from him. Best wishes.


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[KPW]

This is interesting at least to the point of understanding what it would take.


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[rbidwell]

Corey Henderson is in the final stages of installing a twin turbo system on my 90. It is designed to be sold as a kit through Jerry's Gaskets. Ron Hanselman is the person that has put this together. Boost should be around 9 psi with rwhp of around 625.

[5ABI VT]

Corey Henderson is in the final stages of installing a twin turbo system on my 90. It is designed to be sold as a kit through Jerry's Gaskets. Ron Hanselman is the person that has put this together. Boost should be around 9 psi with rwhp of around 625.
=D>:) I will be in line !! :-D

[Vette73]

Corey Henderson is in the final stages of installing a twin turbo system on my 90. It is designed to be sold as a kit through Jerry's Gaskets. Ron Hanselman is the person that has put this together. Boost should be around 9 psi with rwhp of around 625.


Sounds interesting....If I may ask, any idea of the pricing on one of
These systems?

[Tripler]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a7bGG3Amu18

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[Tripler]

An LT5 is a pretty impressive and beautiful motor on it's own . Why mess with perfection but to each there own . Also a blower, twin turbo or a super charger is a ton cheaper and easier to do with an LS engine ...

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[ghlkal]

Sounds interesting....If I may ask, any idea of the pricing on one of
These systems?

x2

[G8nightman]

X3


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[ssrszz4]

I guess the top of the plenum could be cut out and a Whipple mounted but it's going to stick out of the hood a bunch.

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[BigJohn]

Well there are some ZR-1's with Paxton Centrifugal Supercomputers!

[Billy Mild]

I like the idea of a boosted application especially since we have properly flowing heads and more Cams to take advantage of a boosted setup. There is a reason most Ford Guys boost their motors.

Does anyone know how much the kit from Jerry's will be? Is it the raptor kit that was an internet phenomenon a few years ago?

http://www.raptorllc.net/LT5.htm

[Vette73]

Interesting.....So how come,if these were available years ago nobody opted for them? You would figure with six thousand or so ZR-1s I would have seen at least a few on some Zs...Every other mustang I see drive by I can hear the supercharger "Wine" as they go by..I mean, I know there are differences in turbos as opposed to superchargers but you get the point I'm trying to bring out..

My guess is probably the cost was through the roof, and since the initial cost to buy one of these cars over twenty years ago was quite substantial,most buyers if not all went a different direction....I guess seeing the lack of demand,and seeing maybe a handful of installers there were nationwide,the company didn't see it as a profit maker....

Marc's 510 package will get you close to what one of these packages are showing in the Dyno....Allthough, the torque figures these systems are turning out look impressive..

[BigJohn]

Most Mustangs still can not keep up with a stock ZR-1!

[Vette73]

Most Mustangs still can not keep up with a stock ZR-1!

Not the Mustangs I've seen....

[BigJohn]

180mph stock mustang?

[youngrm]

Corey is working on two turbo Z's. Different configurations, one may be in the high triple
Digit HP range, probably not really practical. The hold up for these and previous boosted apps possibly ecm? Plus fabrication of a plenum.

[Vette73]

180mph stock mustang?

180 MPH sounds nice but I highly doubt I will ever test those limits...When I think of powerful cars I think of light to light acceleration, second to third gear pulls .1/4 mile times etc.....

I guess what Billy Mild was trying to bring up is every other car is boosted today so why not the C-4 Z.......I've seen so many Dodge Hemis and Mustangs with these bolt ons put down some nice power.....

Top end speed is fine but in the real world am I ever going to get my Z to its top speed? I mean I live in NY.....I try my best at times to get my Z out of the boroughs so I can rip it every so often through its gears..

[BigJohn]

Yeah, I have two Corvettes and an SSR that will run the quarter in the tens!

[32valvesftw]

Since this thread is about about demand for the system, I guess I'll express my opinion. I have always been an "All Motor" guy. So for me the LT5 is a very good example of a motor that is capable of pretty big HP numbers without boosting, so personally speaking thats what drew me to the ZR-1 package, that and reliability.

[RHanselman]

Well I spoke with Corey a few days ago and we are going to revive ahead of plans. I am retiring next year and was going to concentrate on Raptor then but it seems the time might be right now...

Corey and I will be working on pricing and the time it takes to install. Both of these need to be drastically reduced.

As far as inventory, we have 8 Twin Kits already built and we'll do a little R&D on the single LT1 kit to see if we can fit on the LT5.

Plan on seeing the Twin this year at BG...

I'll be updating the website this or early next month. Until then, if you would like to get info you can PM me or call my cell at 702-308-0475.

Cheers,
Ron

[XfireZ51]

Since this thread is about about demand for the system, I guess I'll express my opinion. I have always been an "All Motor" guy. So for me the LT5 is a very good example of a motor that is capable of pretty big HP numbers without boosting, so personally speaking thats what drew me to the ZR-1 package, that and reliability.

I would agree w this view. My choice is to "keep it simple stupid". Its one reason why I decided on a ZR-1 rather than a C5Z. The LT-5 can be modified to produce
very competitve power levels while still retaining good mileage economy, and idle quality. I think that these characteristics have led GM back to the
DOHC architecture. Perhaps the experience w the LT4 has led GM to look for NA power and away from FI. Ford has demonstrated the potential of an American DOHC motor.
If I was going to choose FI, I'd go Turbo over SC.

[diamond zr1]

stock zr1s run too much compression for much boost/new motors with more sensors and direct injection allow higher compressions but not in the 12 plus range/while the low end or lt5 motors would probably handle boost,top end not so much

[RHanselman]

stock zr1s run too much compression for much boost/new motors with more sensors and direct injection allow higher compressions but not in the 12 plus range/while the low end or lt5 motors would probably handle boost,top end not so much

Not sure if I'm getting all you're saying however:

Stock LT5 can handle around 5 psi. HP and TQ gain is outstanding for this small amount of boost especially the area you gain under the curve.

You can run higher but care must be taken or you'll push out the head gaskets. Ask me how I know...

There should be an old Dyno Graph post somewhere here the website. When I get home I'll look on my old harddrive.

Cheers,
Ron

[Fully Vetted]

Hell, I'd be ok with 5 PSI. For now. It's like the gopher meal in O' Brother Where Art Thou. I'm afraid 5 PSI might just increase my cravings for more.

[Billy Mild]

You can run higher but care must be taken or you'll push out the head gaskets. Ask me how I know...


Funny you bring this issue/weakpoint up. Coming from the Porsche 944 Turbo world this was a similar issue. The 944 NA/Turbo engine were open desk designs as well. What was found out is no matter if you used an MLS gasket instead of cometic, the cylinders would move around when it was really high PSI. It would pop the headgasket.

On the 944/951s people starting sleeving the cylinders with cast iron sleeves, or they would pour concrete into the base of the engine block to help stabilize the cylinders.

http://rennlist.com/forums/944-turbo-and-turbo-s-forum/681486-cylinder-stabilization.html

Just some food for thought. Issue is building our LT5's is so damn expensive.

[Jitse]

Closed deck sleeve upgrade is good one for going with more boost? Together with MLS gaskets. Todd makes closed deck sleeves for the LT5.

[tpepmeie]

Jitse,
I don't currently have any in stock, but can get them. Finding a good quality machine shop to prep the block for installation is crucial.

[ssrszz4]

It's the studs that stretch and cause the head gaskets to fail it has nothing to do with the gaskets. We had the same problems with m3's solution was to use larger head studs.


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[BigJohn]

You all complain about Collector value and with every modification this value will go down!

[Jitse]

I have the car for my own enjoyment, and like to improve. If other people like to keep them original its their choice.

[BigJohn]

I have the car for my own enjoyment, and like to improve. If other people like to keep them original its their choice.

Me Too!

:cheers:

[Mystic ZR-1]

Me Too!

:cheers:

I've got your original wheels on my car...
😀

[Vette73]

Me Too!

:cheers:

Pretty rad....👍👍👍👍

[BigJohn]

I've got your original wheels on my car...
😀

I know,
Now we should add curb feelers to go with the fuzzy dice and spinner hubs on your car!

:-D

[Mystic ZR-1]

I know,
Now we should add curb feelers to go with the fuzzy dice and spinner hubs on your car!

:-D

Take 'em off the LM and I'll put them on my car...

[BigJohn]

Take 'em off the LM and I'll put them on my car...

Actually I was thinking about the BMW!
You really like my carbonfiber curb feelers don't you!

[Bob Eyres]

That nose makes the LM is the best looking C4 ever.

Is Corey's twin Turbo a knock off of the old Lingenfelter setup?

Besides the tuning, which is tricky, I've never understood what makes these twin turbo setups so expensive.

[Mystic ZR-1]

[QUOTE=...I've never understood what makes these twin turbo setups so expensive.[/QUOTE]

Try machining an impeller...
But 1st, ya gotta find a piece of unobtainium...

[BigJohn]

Try machining an impeller...
But 1st, ya gotta find a piece of unobtainium...

I know to machine an impeller, a propeller and turbine vanes.
(steel, aluminum, stainless steel, brass and titanium)

Turbo systems have a lot more parts than a supercharger!

[Bob Eyres]

Try machining an impeller...
But 1st, ya gotta find a piece of unobtainium...

Please pardon my ignorance if I'm out of line, but machine an impeller? I doubt if Lingenfelter ever machined any impellers for those setups. I assume you're kidding.
I've never bought a turbo, but as they are becoming a more common installation on many cars, they must be increasing in quality and decreasing in price.
Other than the tuning, where's the magic here. The engineering has been done more than a decade ago. The rest is just fabrication of the plumbing.:confused:

[BigJohn]

Someone has to machine the turbo or there would not be any.
Engineered for whatever application, wastegates are part of the tuning.
Intercoolers to cool compressed air and oil coolers to cool the oil to turbo bearing.
Plus your just plumbing.

[diamond zr1]

common stuff/if you can get turbos on a chevy cruz or a volkswagon,why not corvette/my 91 t turbo callaway is old//my t turbo c6 is 1000 hp/ thinking of throwing the blower away on my new Z06 and putting on turbos//trucks have been running turbos since before 1960//Coreys turbo system on c4s is in the rear like the sts systems

[BigJohn]

common stuff/if you can get turbos on a chevy cruz or a volkswagon,why not corvette/my 91 t turbo callaway is old//my t turbo c6 is 1000 hp/ thinking of throwing the blower away on my new Z06 and putting on turbos//trucks have been running turbos since before 1960//Coreys turbo system on c4s is in the rear like the sts systems

All my Diesels had turbos; Catapillar, Cummings and Duramax!

[BigJohn]

https://www.amazon.com/Turbocharging-Performance-Handbook-Jeff-Hartman/dp/0760328056#immersive-view_1488149251646

[youngrm]

Corey has the rear TT system with the designer/creator and mine:
Low compression 368ish, fab intake- replace plenum, head gaskets, cams
From prior build, off the shelf turbos in the engine bay, adjustable boost etc

Edit: clarification- Corey Henderson has two different turbo systems he's working on.
I'm not in anyway associated with the rear mount system.

[rkreigh]

stock zr1s run too much compression for much boost/new motors with more sensors and direct injection allow higher compressions but not in the 12 plus range/while the low end or lt5 motors would probably handle boost,top end not so much

The stock compression limits boost on pump gas, but with E85 a whole new avenue opens up and with twin injectors and pumps, upgrading the stock ZR-1 fuel system is pretty easy to keep up with the demand (a pair of bosch 480 LPH pumps will do nicely).

The other limiting factor, like the LS motors, is the 4 bolt head and hyper pistons. The pistons and rods are pretty strong and SGC (Wayne's car) ran 5-7 psi on good pump gas with the factory short block at 11-1 and the car did quite nicely. Now enter a "flex fuel" solution which is very easy with GM and aftermarket computers and we have a nice starting point even with the factory short block.

The "tight fit" on the LT5 makes front mount turbos an exercise in fitment and frustration, but clearly the TT ZR-1s have been done by a number of companies so this is not unfeasible.

Now with the modern computer systems and upgraded liners (more to come!!) with improved deck sealing, the turbo LT5 is very feasible (hey, look at the ones GM did at 750 hp in the CERV cars!!).

While the LT5 is not an ideal starting point from a cost and support standpoint, once you have driven a TT ZR-1 NOTHING else will do. After I rode around in a few of these, I can tell you it ruined me for even the LSV. The torq is seamless, and once those snails spool (albeit QUICKLY) the thrust of a TT ZR-1 is a thing of joy.

Glad to see Corey and Ron still working this, it's a very worthy project and I'll bet the results will beyond spectacular!!

Dig up all my old posts on TT ZR-1s and you'll see quite a bit of tech and info I've posted over the years about my "bucket list" dream of owning a TT
ZR-1.

Let me know if you would like to explore this more, I can help.

[Tripler]

Read #19 of Heart Of the Beast Newsletter about the Lingenfelter TT ZR-1's

;)