Winter storage

[ALLTHECAMS]

I've always stored my cars with a full tank, but one of the guys in my Corvette Club says to store a C4 for the winter with less than a 1/4 tank because a couple of sensors in the tank can go bad. Is this true? Also, does anyone use fuel stabilizer like Sta-bil?
Thanks
Matt

[A26B]

I would recommend storing with a full tank treated with Sta-bil.

[ALLTHECAMS]

I would recommend storing with a full tank treated with Sta-bil.

That's what I thought. Thanks.

[efnfast]

I store my car full with a stabilizer from Amsoil.

[BigJohn]

Yeah, someone has to help the Amway Boys keep their 200 foot yacht open running!

[Paul Workman]

I would recommend storing with a full tank treated with Sta-bil.

:thumbsup: on the full tank. Condensation is a REAL concern in winter.

However, my small engine mechanic steered me to Sea Foam, stating issues with (other stabilizer(s)).

I had the issues he was talking about with some small motors. But, someone had advised me to run a "stabilizer" additive and then run the tank dry before storing. As result, the jets got plugged on 3 different engines.

So! I don't know if the difference was having a full tank or not, but a full tank and SEA FOAM have yet to fail in over 15 years of winter storage of 9 engines. :cheers:

[Roadster]

I know everyone has their own ways of storing their vehicles. I do agree with a full tank of fuel to avoid condensation during storage. But I guess what I don't understand is why people store their vehicles away for months and never start them at all.
Here in the Metro Philly area, it can get quite cold. But even though I wouldn't use the Z that much in the winter when I was still working, I would always start the engine at least once every 2 weeks. Back out of the garage and let warm up to operating temps and either drive around the block a few times or go for a 5 to 10 mile trip, depending of course on weather conditions. That way I am burning off any condensation build up and still get the pleasure of going for a ride. It would be real hard for me to have the Z or any other vehicle covered up and not used during the winter months in nice weather conditions.....
To those that do store, this is not a criticism of what you do, but JMO....

[efnfast]

I usually pick 2 or 3 nice days during the winter and back her out of the garage, I let it warm up, but can't take it for a drive.

[WARP TEN]

For both Corvettes and snow blower, I have never needed a fuel stabilizer here in Chicago. Maybe just lucky but all I do is fill the tanks. I check that the oil is also full, put the Corvette on a battery tender and increase tire inflation pressure to 40 pounds or so to minimize flat spotting. I used to run the tire pressure to 60 psi per a friend who stores (and restores) lots of classic cars but techs at Costco told me that valves were only warranted to 40 psi. I found that out when I developed a slow leak that turned out to be a defective valve (which they still kindly replaced for free). Probably could go 50 psi but I am sticking around 40 for now. Historically I never had a big problem with flat spotting using increased pressures for storage. I normally take insurance down to Comprehensive only so I don't drive them for roughly four months. A sad thought, but I am cheered by the fact that we have only ten more days until the days start getting longer :cheers: --Bob

[Mystic ZR-1]

A cold start is the WORST condition for any engine.
Why do it every couple of weeks for 5 - 6 months?
Once in the Spring is fine. Minimizes wear.
A little over kill... but I put an electric space heater under
the car for several hours (car on jack stands) to warm things
up, it's called pre-heat in the aviation world, before starting in the Spring.
Oil pressure comes right up. During this drill, the running gear gets exercised too (with no load), even in neutral everything is turning.
Full tank with Stabil for storage, new oil and filter (run till warmed up) when putting to bed for "a long Winter's sleep".
Kleenex for the tears of withdrawl...
Mid April's just around the corner...
OBTW: A battery tender too.

[BigJohn]

A cold start is the WORST condition for any engine.
Why do it every couple of weeks for 5 - 6 months?
Once in the Spring is fine. Minimizes wear.
A little over kill... but I put an electric space heater under
the car for several hours (car on jack stands) to warm things
up, it's called pre-heat in the aviation world, before starting in the Spring.
Oil pressure comes right up. During this drill, the running gear gets exercised too (with no load), even in neutral everything is turning.
Full tank with Stabil for storage, new oil and filter (run till warmed up) when putting to bed for "a long Winter's sleep".
Kleenex for the tears of withdrawl...
Mid April's just around the corner...
OBTW: A battery tender too.





Yep, just parked out behind the barn take the battery out and in the spring put the battery back in and starter up!

[Vette73]

I agree with roadster.....I have lived in NY my entire life....What I have noticed over the past five or six years except for maybe one, the winters are not really that frigid.....( Let's hope I didn't jinx everybody)

Temps in the 30s with an adequate amount of sunshine are manageable.....I really am not a firm believer in letting a car sit unless of course your doing mod work or repairs...

For me if the temp is over 30-35 and the roads have no salt on them, I'll take it out for some exercise...

[Roadster]

A cold start is the WORST condition for any engine.
Why do it every couple of weeks for 5 - 6 months?
Once in the Spring is fine. Minimizes wear.
A little over kill... but I put an electric space heater under
the car for several hours (car on jack stands) to warm things
up, it's called pre-heat in the aviation world, before starting in the Spring.
Oil pressure comes right up. During this drill, the running gear gets exercised too (with no load), even in neutral everything is turning.
Full tank with Stabil for storage, new oil and filter (run till warmed up) when putting to bed for "a long Winter's sleep".
Kleenex for the tears of withdrawl...
Mid April's just around the corner...
OBTW: A battery tender too.

I'm going to have to bust them here.....lol
If a cold start is the WORST condition for any engine, then why start any engine in the cold??? Sorry Doug, just have to break them for you.:)
As mentioned we all have our own way of doing things. The older I get the more I realize is to enjoy what you have as much as you can. You never know what is around the corner.....so for me doing it for every couple of weeks is not a problem. And the way I look at it, is I will probably wear out long before my Z does......lol
I just like driving them as much as I can, what can I say!!!
Other than, no Kleenex needed for any tears here!!!:-D

[Roadster]

Yep, just parked out behind the barn take the battery out and in the spring put the battery back in and starter up!

Don't know if I would leave it outside of the barn, maybe inside!!!!

I agree with roadster.....I have lived in NY my entire life....What I have noticed over the past five or six years except for maybe one, the winters are not really that frigid.....( Let's hope I didn't jinx everybody)

Temps in the 30s with an adequate amount of sunshine are manageable.....I really am not a firm believer in letting a car sit unless of course your doing mod work or repairs...

For me if the temp is over 30-35 and the roads have no salt on them, I'll take it out for some exercise...

Agree, when you let a vehicle sit too long, you may, not saying you will, have complications down the road in one form or another....

In fact taking the Z out now with the Mrs., dropping her off at the store, top the tank off and pick her back up......good for another few weeks or less...:-D

[BigJohn]

[QUOTE=Roadster;253536]Don't know if I would leave it outside of the barn, maybe



Is this better?

[Roadster]

[QUOTE=Roadster;253536]Don't know if I would leave it outside of the barn, maybe



Is this better?

Much better.......:thumbsup:

[-=Jeff=-]

Hey Big John,

That is a quite expensive Towel rack you have there

:dancing:-D

[Mystic ZR-1]

Hey Big John,

That is a quite expensive Towel rack you have there

:dancing:-D

You otta see the rack he hangs his farmer jeans on!
😀

[BigJohn]

[QUOTE=Mystic ZR-1;253554]You otta see the rack he hangs his farmer jeans on!
😀[/QUOT

I didn't think you would notice!
Do like my two Legged horse?

[Mystic ZR-1]

That wagon been to Old Lyme?

[BigJohn]

That wagon been to Old Lyme?




Better yet it's been to Shipshewana!

[Ami Workman]

I usually pick 2 or 3 nice days during the winter and back her out of the garage, I let it warm up, but can't take it for a drive.
We do the same...back it out and warm it back up...too much snow and salt on the roads...

[ALLTHECAMS]

Thanks for all the input guys.

Sent from my XT1080 using ZR-1 Net Registry mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)

[-=Jeff=-]

That wagon been to Old Lyme?

Better yet are those Sport seats on the wagon?

:dancing

[BigJohn]

Better yet are those Sport seats on the wagon?

:dancing

They are van seats on the wagon!

[rush91]

Not having my own garage, I have to keep my Beast in a storage unit. It gets pretty cold here in Southern Illinois, and I have never had an issue with any of my cars. Granted this is the 1st time I have stored a car. Last year all I did was fill the tank up, go every weekend and start her, and take it for a drive. If there was salt on the roads, I would just drive it around the storage facility...... I've always heard that is not good to let a car warm up by just letting it sit and idle.

[ghlkal]

FWIW ... I've stopped using a fuel stabilizer. I used to put it in my cars and small engines (generator, lawn mower), but I always had a hard time starting them in the Spring. I began using Seafoam and haven't had any issues starting in the Spring.

Although I store my Z with a full tank, I've heard people comment that GM recommends less than a half tank. It has something to do with the sending unit. IDK

I start my Z up once a month in the winter and get it to operating temperature.

Obviously YMMV

:)

[cvette98pacecar]

Sta-bil 360 and Marvels Mystery oil. I fill the tank with gas use the correct amount of Sta-bil and Marvels drive the car one last time for the season. Usually a small 20 or 30 minute ride. I fill the tank, detail the car and take it to storage. Once she goes into storage I don't move or start her until she comes home for the next season.
For longer periods of storage I make sure to change the oil and gas every other year. Coolant every 5 years. All of my Vehicles are on battery tenders 99% of the time so I have never had an issue with a battery.

[RodB]

Sta-bil 360 and Marvels Mystery oil. I fill the tank with gas use the correct amount of Sta-bil and Marvels drive the car one last time for the season. Usually a small 20 or 30 minute ride. I fill the tank, detail the car and take it to storage. Once she goes into storage I don't move or start her until she comes home for the next season.

For longer periods of storage I make sure to change the oil and gas every other year. Coolant every 5 years. All of my Vehicles are on battery tenders 99% of the time so I have never had an issue with a battery.







Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)

[Dynomite]

You guys make it so complicated with all the additives ;)

Here is Simple.............simple in that no mess and no fuss with the ZR-1s for 4 months :thumbsup:

1. Install the Battery Disconnect Switch and Disconnect the Battery.
2. Fill the gas tank.
3. Make sure antifreeze is good for at least -15 deg F (3-1/2 balls floating).
4. Park the ZR-1s on floor mats to prevent condensation on a bare unheated concrete floor.
5. Use about 5 sheets of bounce poked into the Plenum Runners.
6. Use a Car Cover to keep the car clean which adds to the heating effect.
7. Do NOT start the car during the winter storage.
8. Move to California for 4 months and Drive the CA ZR-1s :cheers:

The Battery Disconnect Switch and Having an Operational Secondary Full Power Switch (http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-8.html#post1587653767)

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite11/9b113ff3-2c27-4600-aba8-a9f3456647a4.jpg
http://partimages.genpt.com/partimages/213967.jpg

Explanation of Condensation on ZR-1 Undercarriage on a Cold Concrete Floor
The condensation under a ZR-1 has less to do with the lack of a vapor barrier and more to do with a very cold concrete floor that remains cool for a long time after the ambient temperatures have risen. The warmer air carries more moisture under the car where that air is rapidly cooled and moisture condenses on any surface available and in this case the undercarriage of the ZR-1. The MATS prevent that cold floor from cooling the warmer air under the ZR-1 and the condensation is prevented.

Any very cold unheated concrete floor will exhibit the same conditions. The higher the undercarriage is from the floor seems to reduce the condensation as shown in the photo below whereas a Toyota Tacoma does not suffer the same situation as it has about twice the undercarriage clearance as do the ZR-1s.

A moisture barrier will not stop a concrete floor from sweating. It will stop the mitigation of ground water through a slab if done correctly. Sweating is caused by a combination of concrete temperature and weather conditions. If the concrete is cold enough and the temperature and humidity high enough the slab will sweat, regardless of a barrier.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite11/IMG_4533.jpg

See Winter Storage (http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-13.html#post1592505522)

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

FWIW ... I've stopped using a fuel stabilizer. I used to put it in my cars and small engines (generator, lawn mower), but I always had a hard time starting them in the Spring. I began using Seafoam and haven't had any issues starting in the Spring.

Although I store my Z with a full tank, I've heard people comment that GM recommends less than a half tank. It has something to do with the sending unit. IDK

I start my Z up once a month in the winter and get it to operating temperature.

Obviously YMMV

:)

I have not heard of this suggested procedure for C-4's.
The sending unit is rather similar to earlier cars, and absent someone who has seen such a service bulletin or suggested procedure, I have always preferred to keep that entire unit immersed in gasoline, so as to minimize the chance of rust forming on it, when it sits in air as opposed to fuel.

What I also suspect, again not certain, but suspect, is GM has suggested that C-5's with fuel sensors in the tank are prone to sulfur contamination from the fuel, and therefore might benefit from nor being in contact with the fuel if left sitting for long periods.
The sulfur coats the sensor causing erratic fuel level indication.
GM suggests using Chevron fuel treatment with Techron as a remedy or preventative measure. It has shown an ability to remove the sulfur coating enough to restore the sensors accuracy in a number of cases, as well as to prevent it from getting contaminated.

My suspicion, is that C-5 situation, over time, has co-mingled to other generations, and become like folklore, albeit, erroneously.

Full tank, therefore, seems best for C-4's and older cars, and using "something" to reduce or eliminate the propensity of fuel to become varnish, also seems like a great idea.
Lastly, the alcohol in today's fuels introduces another set of concerns, which again may benefit from some of the treatments already mentioned.

I have admitted in the past, that I once put the Ruby away, thinking it would be for a couple of months. It turned into two years, and I had done nothing other than a full tank of gas. (OK, so shoot me).
When I finally rolled it out and hooked up a battery pack to it, I went to just bump the key to just turn it over, and that LT-5 fired right up, like I had just parked it an hour ago.
Again, not recommending that storage mistake, but til this day I remain amazed at that, and still find it hard to believe!

In the end, storage procedures are akin to discussing religion and politics.
Everyone believes what they believe, and few will change their minds absent some hard facts.

I will close with this. Having seen very many examples of low mile cars that have been in repeated winter storage, fuel seems to be the least of the problems.
What I see far too often, are cars that are left in, I guess, older garages, where there is no vapor barrier beneath the concrete. Cars that are stored in those conditions are beautiful when you look at them from the topside.
You then put them up on the lift, and the disappointment is immediate.
Everything metal is a mess! Rust, corrosion, etc, everywhere you look.

9 out of 10 of my buyers today, now insist on pictures of the undercarriage, especially when they are buying from pictures and not coming to inspect the car in person.
Let's just say far more value is lost from that undercarriage condition than from fuel storage.
While it may not be good to trap the moisture in or on the concrete for mold or other reasons or issues, just know that if something is not done, you need to treat those metallic pieces somehow, if you want to preserve maximum value of your toys.

It is sad to see a low mile well preserved car with extensive and expensive damage underneath due to it sitting in such conditions.

Might as well have driven it in the snow and salt!

:cheers:
Marty

[Dynomite]

Having seen very many examples of low mile cars that have been in repeated winter storage, fuel seems to be the least of the problems.
What I see far too often, are cars that are left in, I guess, older garages, where there is no vapor barrier beneath the concrete. Cars that are stored in those conditions are beautiful when you look at them from the topside.
You then put them up on the lift, and the disappointment is immediate.
Everything metal is a mess! Rust, corrosion, etc, everywhere you look.

9 out of 10 of my buyers today, now insist on pictures of the undercarriage, especially when they are buying from pictures and not coming to inspect the car in person.
Let's just say far more value is lost from that undercarriage condition than from fuel storage.
While it may not be good to trap the moisture in or on the concrete for mold or other reasons or issues, just know that if something is not done, you need to treat those metallic pieces somehow, if you want to preserve maximum value of your toys.

It is sad to see a low mile well preserved car with extensive and expensive damage underneath due to it sitting in such conditions.

Might as well have driven it in the snow and salt!

:cheers:
Marty

Marty........I think the condensation under a ZR-1 has less to do with a vapor barrier and more to do with a very cold concrete floor that remains cool for a long time after the ambient temperatures have risen. The warmer air carries more moisture under the car where that air is rapidly cooled and moisture condenses on any surface available and in this case the undercarriage of the ZR-1. The MATS prevent that cold floor from cooling the warmer air under the ZR-1 and the condensation is prevented.

Any very cold unheated concrete floor will exhibit the same conditions. The higher the undercarriage is from the floor seems to reduce the condensation as shown in the photo below whereas a Toyota Tacoma does not suffer the same situation as it has about twice the undercarriage clearance as do the ZR-1s.

A moisture barrier will not stop a concrete floor from sweating. It will stop the mitigation of ground water through a slab if done correctly. Sweating is caused by a combination of concrete temperature and weather conditions. If the concrete is cold enough and the temperature and humidity high enough the slab will sweat, regardless of a barrier.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite11/IMG_4533.jpg

[ghlkal]

What I also suspect, again not certain, but suspect, is GM has suggested that C-5's with fuel sensors in the tank are prone to sulfur contamination from the fuel, and therefore might benefit from nor being in contact with the fuel if left sitting for long periods.


My suspicion, is that C-5 situation, over time, has co-mingled to other generations, and become like folklore, albeit, erroneously.



Yes, I remember the C5 issue and it may well be that it has been applied to the C4 erroneously.

It's hard to get good, solid answers, isn't it?

[Tripler]

Our garage is asphalt . Will we have the same issues as a concrete slab garage with condensation or moisture ? I am thinking perhaps not because asphalt is porous to some extent tho the winter time may make it's characteristics more concrete like .

;) ;) ;)

[BigJohn]

Asphalt gets sticky in hot sun!

[rush91]

This is what I have always been told about fuel injected cars....... Clear your windows of ice / frost, and be on your way.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/videos/a30249/why-you-shouldnt-warm-up-your-car/

[Dynomite]

This is what I have always been told about fuel injected cars....... Clear your windows of ice / frost, and be on your way.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/videos/a30249/why-you-shouldnt-warm-up-your-car/

I Like it :handshak::handshak:

[BigJohn]

All I get on that link is a Reesie's advertisement!

[Dynomite]

All I get on that link is a Reesie's advertisement!

Link works fine here :cheers:

Here's the Real Reason You Should Never Warm Up Your Car
It takes longer, wastes fuel, and actually increases the wear and tear on your engine

[Ami Workman]

All I get on that link is a Reesie's advertisement!
I was able to open the article, no problem ☺

[Vette73]

Marty........I think the condensation under a ZR-1 has less to do with a vapor barrier and more to do with a very cold concrete floor that remains cool for a long time after the ambient temperatures have risen. The warmer air carries more moisture under the car where that air is rapidly cooled and moisture condenses on any surface available and in this case the undercarriage of the ZR-1. The MATS prevent that cold floor from cooling the warmer air under the ZR-1 and the condensation is prevented.

Any very cold unheated concrete floor will exhibit the same conditions. The higher the undercarriage is from the floor seems to reduce the condensation as shown in the photo below whereas a Toyota Tacoma does not suffer the same situation as it has about twice the undercarriage clearance as do the ZR-1s.

A moisture barrier will not stop a concrete floor from sweating. It will stop the mitigation of ground water through a slab if done correctly. Sweating is caused by a combination of concrete temperature and weather conditions. If the concrete is cold enough and the temperature and humidity high enough the slab will sweat, regardless of a barrier.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite11/IMG_4533.jpg

Where did you purchase those car mats for the concrete floor? Seems like a good idea...

[Dynomite]

Where did you purchase those car mats for the concrete floor? Seems like a good idea...

The interlocking floor mats work great .............Search GETRUNG Flooring on Ebay.

See Showroom Mats for ZR-1s (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-7.html#post1585219756)