FX3 actuator rebuild/roll pins [Archive] - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

orthodoct

11-05-2016, 03:21 PM

Got another broken actuator. Had one rebuilt by Captain Z CNC; great folks. I am going to have the remainder rebuilt; just a matter of time before the other two break. Getting the roll pins out of old gears. They use a metric punch smaller than a 1/16! Does anyone know the size of the roll pin punch? I slightly bogeyed up the hole in the top of the shock but didn't go all gorilla and destroy it. Slight burr on one side of the hole that I was able to clean up. Have ordered three new gems from Captain Z as well. Any pearls about installing the new gears? These should be easier since these are the rear shocks and I have them off of the car. I managed to replace the gear on the right front after actuator rebuild with shock on the car, but reluctant to replace left front gear unless it fails. If I don't replace it until it fails, will it ruin my new rebuilt actuator? It is very delicate getting that roll pin out without damaging the shaft and reinstalling the roll pin in the new gear is very delicate. I used a hemostat to guide it and started it with a 1/16" roll pin starter punch.
Thanks!
Ty
Crossville, TN

orthodoct

11-05-2016, 03:22 PM

Should say "gears", not "gems"! Spell check strikes again!!
Thanks!

BigJohn

11-05-2016, 07:50 PM

But I like Captain Z Gems!

orthodoct

11-05-2016, 08:16 PM

Aaron and Lynn are nice folks. Without their business, there would be a lot of crippled ZR1's out there. Did some homework today. Diameter of roll pin is 1.54mm according to my Starrett dial caliper which is very accurate. i notice that the Bilstein shocks are made in Germany so everything is bound to be metric. The pin size is 1.5 x 6mm and the hole size in the shaft of the shock appears to be 1.50 mm. I almost ruined the shaft. A 1/16" punch will push the pin up against the shock shaft and the hole in the gear will accommodate it, but a 1/16 punch will not go through that hard, tempered shaft but it WILL try to deform the metal. I burred it a little bit, but didn't ruin it. I ordered a 1.5mm punch made in Germany (from a company with a good reputation, Gedore, so it should be an accurate diameter) and some small metric drills to size that hole. Can't get to it with a dial caliper and it isn't accurate enough. I think that this hasn't come up before because we are used to replacing broken pot metal gears and the easiest way to get them off of the shaft is to break them up and then work out the pin. I am replacing two of the pot metal gears that haven't failed yet and tried to drive the pin all the way across. With those shocks being outrageously expensive if even available sure don't want to bend that shaft. Hope this information is beneficial to the forum. Will update this post when I can confirm that hole size is exactly 1.5mm.

orthodoct

11-05-2016, 09:06 PM

If you do the math, 1.5mm=0.0591 inches (1.5mm/25.4mm per inch) whereas 1/16"=0.0625 inches; just enough to interfere.

GOLDCYLON

11-05-2016, 11:13 PM

Hope this information is beneficial to the forum. Will update this post when I can confirm that hole size is exactly 1.5mm.

Please do and thanks

orthodoct

11-06-2016, 12:58 AM

I most certainly will. An honor to be able to contribute to and be a part of this forum.

orthodoct

11-13-2016, 02:20 PM

GOLDCYLON

11-13-2016, 06:52 PM

Final update. Hole in shock IS metric. 1.5 mm roll punch fits perfectly; 1/16 inch punch too big. Trying to knock out pin to replace gear with 1/16 punch will bend the shaft and ruin the shock. 1.5 mm punch is hard to find, but I found one made by Gedore made in Germany on eBay. Correct replacement roll pin is 1.5mm by 6 mm. Also hard to find, but I did but literally coming from a slow boat from China. Got 100 for four bucks. Other option was 1.5 mm by 20mm. Was able to find them from a US source and can cut to length with a Dremel cutoff wheel and chamfer the edge. Hope this helps add to our knowledge database.
Regards to all.
Ty

If you want to part with a few of those pins lmk. Also can you pm me or email me that auction number.?I will like to pick on of those up for the tool box. Thanks for closing out your post to help the next guy. You will never be able to count how many folks leave it hanging with no followup. Goldcylon@cox.net is my email address. Thanks again GC

orthodoct

11-13-2016, 07:12 PM

Hi Goldcyclon.
Will be happy to send you some, but they won't be here (no kidding, from CHINA!) until between 11/23 and 12/30! The 20mm ones will be here next week and I'll be happy to send you some of them as well. Will send you an email with the eBay info that you wanted.
Ty

Roadster

11-13-2016, 11:02 PM

In addition to what the OP has posted, I also did some research. Could not find the Gedore 1.5 mm pin punch, but did find one from South Korea made by Smato. There are 4 left in the 1.5 mm size if anyone is interested.
Auction # 361759427841 Cost $7.35 and free shipping.

Also found some Serpent 1.5x10mm Roll Pins (10), these are solid and not the split ones that are also offered. I would imagine that these will work just fine.
Auction # 401103591073 Cost $7.68 which includes the shipping and shipped from CA. He has 2 more sets available as of this time. Not the great price that the OP got from China, but these are very hard to find along with the 1.5 mm pin punch.

I placed my order for both items...
Just thought I would pass this along......

Roadster

11-23-2016, 01:15 PM

Received the roll pins last week and received the pin punch from South Korea yesterday, which was extremely fast. I imagine that since the package was so small it made through customs without any problems. The 1.5mm pin punch and the roll pins match up perfect. Just have to cut them down to 6mm whenever needed. I may pick up the split roll pins just to have......
Thanks to the OP (orthodoct) for all the info.....into the tool box they go.....:-D

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p138/SSROADSTER/94%20ZR-1/20161123_120538.jpg (http://s127.photobucket.com/user/SSROADSTER/media/94%20ZR-1/20161123_120538.jpg.html)

secondchance

11-23-2016, 01:23 PM

Now, try lining up the pin with the gear and shaft lined up, AND squeeze it in. It's like trying to butt xxxx a gnat! Excuse my Korean...

Roadster

11-23-2016, 01:28 PM

Now, try lining up the pin with the gear and shaft lined up, AND squeeze it in. It's like butt xxxxing a gnat! Excuse my Korean...

I hear you there Yun.......:) hope I never need them at all. But for the price, I feel it's cheap insurance for if it does happen....I always try to be prepared, but that doesn't always happen.......anyway it's another tool for WAZOO Land, don't know if Jim has this tool and the pins or not.....but we have one now or maybe two......

secondchance

11-23-2016, 02:58 PM

I hear you there Yun.......:) hope I never need them at all. But for the price, I feel it's cheap insurance for if it does happen....I always try to be prepared, but that doesn't always happen.......anyway it's another tool for WAZOO Land, don't know if Jim has this tool and the pins or not.....but we have one now or maybe two......

I did this a couple of times. I think the last time was about 3 years ago. It can be done! Good eyesight, steady hand and a good needle nose pliers is what it takes.

GOLDCYLON

11-23-2016, 05:10 PM

I Could not find the Gedore 1.5 mm pin punch, but did find one from South Korea made by Smato. There are 4 left in the 1.5 mm size if anyone is interested.

I must of lucked out I was able to order at Gedore on Ebay nice punch

orthodoct

11-23-2016, 05:17 PM

Hi secondchance. Regarding lining up the holes, I am spoiled with acesss to some incredible instruments as an orthopaedic surgeon. There is an instrument known as a pointed towel clip that we use to secure drapes around a surgical field. They have tapered points and when the tips are passed through the holes in the gear and shaft of the shock, they line up he holes perfectly. BTW, Captain Z CNC now stocks the 1.5mm by 6.0mm pins needed to install the gears. If some one can tell me how to post a picture, I'll take a picture of the towel clips and try to find an online source. Roadster, I noted the "Serpent" brand on your punch and roll pins. I built two of their gas powered remote controlled cars. Awesome machines; 0-70 REAL mph in two seconds! They were kits, $1500 each not including engine or radios, made in Holland. Still have them upstairs in my theater room on display!

orthodoct

11-23-2016, 05:29 PM

Correct name for towel clip is Backhaus Kocher Towel Forceps; not cheap, but a unique and useful tool.

secondchance

11-23-2016, 05:59 PM

Backhaus Kocher Towel Forceps, huh? I think I lined up the holes with the punch, squeezed in the pin through the gear, turned left and right until I could feel the hole on the shock shaft followed by additional squeeze with the needle nose. Wasn't easy but got it through. All with just my thumb and index fingers.

orthodoct

11-23-2016, 06:19 PM

Told you that I was spoiled! The tapered nature of the tips of the towel clips corrects any rotational malalignment and centers the holes perfectly.

orthodoct

11-23-2016, 06:26 PM

P.S.: Did the gnat let out a squeal?? With the way that things are going legally, probably legal to marry him or her! Have fun!
Ty

secondchance

11-23-2016, 06:37 PM

Gnat was quiet. I squealed with frustration!

orthodoct

11-23-2016, 06:41 PM

Great answer!

orthodoct

11-23-2016, 07:34 PM

5771

5772

5773

Towel clip pictures

Roadster

11-23-2016, 07:40 PM

I must of lucked out I was able to order at Gedore on Ebay nice punch

I did not have the luck with the Gedore punch on ebay, might have all been gone when I got to look for them in that size.

Hi secondchance. Regarding lining up the holes, I am spoiled with acesss to some incredible instruments as an orthopaedic surgeon. There is an instrument known as a pointed towel clip that we use to secure drapes around a surgical field. They have tapered points and when the tips are passed through the holes in the gear and shaft of the shock, they line up he holes perfectly. BTW, Captain Z CNC now stocks the 1.5mm by 6.0mm pins needed to install the gears. If some one can tell me how to post a picture, I'll take a picture of the towel clips and try to find an online source. Roadster, I noted the "Serpent" brand on your punch and roll pins. I built two of their gas powered remote controlled cars. Awesome machines; 0-70 REAL mph in two seconds! They were kits, $1500 each not including engine or radios, made in Holland. Still have them upstairs in my theater room on display!

Will have to check out Captain Z.....Serpent was the brand for the pins, as the punch was from South Korea and a different brand. The punch seems very well manufactured. Have no idea about the remote cars you mentioned. They must be really something though, talk about fast, has to be a very fun hobby and expensive......:)

Roadster

11-23-2016, 07:48 PM

Your towel clip pics did not post.....
Easiest way to post pics for me is to upload them to photobucket and then copy from wherever they will be in your library with that particular link and paste on your post, works well.

orthodoct

11-23-2016, 07:54 PM

Yessir, those pins were for Serpent cars. I recognize the logo. Is another expensive hobby just like working on our cars. They are INCREDIBLY fast with a two speed transmission, working shocks and suspension, four wheel drive with Kevlar belts. The receiver would shut down the throttle if it lost transmitter contact. They were about 18 inches long and really would hit 70mph in 2 seconds. They could get away from you FAST thus the reason for the throttle shutoff. Weighed maybe five pounds and the engine produced 3.5 hp. Do the math for the power to weight ratio. I'll post a couple of pictures if it isn't against the rules of being "off topic". Absolutely magnificent creatures and you built them from kits at about a hundred hours each. Made you cry and seek your "safe space" if you crashed one. What say you friend Goldcyclon??

Regards:
Ty

orthodoct

11-24-2016, 12:41 AM

Hi Roadster. I spent over an hour trying to get those damned pictures to post. I have built three Windows machines, but ever since Windows 8 came out, I have wished Microsoft a fiery eternity in hell. I have a MacBook that does great until you want it to do something different. Google the clamp and you will see what it looks like. Surgical instruments are VERY EXPENSIVE, but I saw one for about fifty dollars. All surgical instruments are hand made in Germany and are old school. As a surgeon, I get to use wonderful tools; my shoulder arthroscopy equipment cost over half a million dollars! I'll try what you suggested, but with Mac, I'm not too optimistic. Google the instrument and see what you find. Definitely a "niche" tool, but irreplaceable if you need it? I'll try again to post the pictures. Frustrating for me too!
Ty

george1945

11-24-2016, 09:52 AM

Are the original pins the split variety, or solid?

orthodoct

11-24-2016, 10:15 AM

Split. Metric, 1.5mm by 6.0mm. Split diameter by my caliper is 1.54mm which allows for slight crush to retain them.

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george1945

11-24-2016, 10:46 AM

Thanks. Just located some yesterday. Will get a package. I immagine mine will need repair sooner or later.

Roadster

11-24-2016, 11:08 AM

Are the original pins the split variety, or solid?

Split. Metric, 1.5mm by 6.0mm. Split diameter by my caliper is 1.54mm which allows for slight crush to retain them.

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Looks like my solids aren't the right ones....need to get the splits.....

Dynomite

11-24-2016, 11:28 AM

Looks like my solids aren't the right ones....need to get the splits.....

There are Spring Pins (Rolled and Split or Coiled and Slotted) that are slightly larger than the hole. There are also Tapered Pins.

Solid Pins (Straight, Knurled, Barbed) definitely are suspect where Spring Pins should be used :p

orthodoct

11-24-2016, 11:39 AM

I agree. Without the crush, I don't think that they will fit so the solids won't work. Aaron and Lynn at Captain Z just got in a supply of the correct pins and sent me some. They work perfectly. Surprisingly very tight tolerances. I ordered some very small metric drill bits from Amazon exactly 1.50mm in diameter. I miked them and they were exactly 1.500 mm in diameter. Fit shaft perfectly so that hole is exactly 1.50mm. Solid pin if exactly 1.50mm either would not fit or be too loose. Split pins are mandatory. I'm sure that Captain Z will send you some. I have 50 on order, but coming from China and may not be here until 12/30. Found on eBay, 1.5 x 6 mm. Only source that I could find until Captain Z fixed me up.

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Roadster

11-24-2016, 10:53 PM

There are Spring Pins (Rolled and Split or Coiled and Slotted) that are slightly larger than the hole. There are also Tapered Pins.

Solid Pins (Straight, Knurled, Barbed) definitely are suspect where Spring Pins should be used :p

I agree. Without the crush, I don't think that they will fit so the solids won't work. Aaron and Lynn at Captain Z just got in a supply of the correct pins and sent me some. They work perfectly. Surprisingly very tight tolerances. I ordered some very small metric drill bits from Amazon exactly 1.50mm in diameter. I miked them and they were exactly 1.500 mm in diameter. Fit shaft perfectly so that hole is exactly 1.50mm. Solid pin if exactly 1.50mm either would not fit or be too loose. Split pins are mandatory. I'm sure that Captain Z will send you some. I have 50 on order, but coming from China and may not be here until 12/30. Found on eBay, 1.5 x 6 mm. Only source that I could find until Captain Z fixed me up.

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These are the ones I ordered earlier today.....
50pcs Carbon Steel Split Spring Dowel Tension Roll Pin Hardware M1.5x6mm
Mine also coming from China.....
I would imagine that these should be correct.....thoughts.......

secondchance

11-25-2016, 08:30 AM

These are the ones I ordered earlier today.....
50pcs Carbon Steel Split Spring Dowel Tension Roll Pin Hardware M1.5x6mm
Mine also coming from China.....
I would imagine that these should be correct.....thoughts.......

Bring a couple with you to wazoo get together. We will remove one and try your new one - just for the fun of it.

orthodoct

11-25-2016, 10:23 AM

Exactly the same ones that I ordered. Don't get in a hurry; mine aren't here yet. Arrive on a VERY SLOW BOAT FROM CHINA!!

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Roadster

11-25-2016, 02:59 PM

Bring a couple with you to wazoo get together. We will remove one and try your new one - just for the fun of it.

Will do, as you said "just for the fun of it"........:)

Exactly the same ones that I ordered. Don't get in a hurry; mine aren't here yet. Arrive on a VERY SLOW BOAT FROM CHINA!!

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LOL....hopefully not that slow!!! ebay said my pins are shipped......same thing with the pin punch from South Korea, thought they would take awhile. They arrived on the 22nd, they were ordered on the 13th.....very fast.....
IMO, small items should go through customs without any problems....
We'll see if Hong Kong can get them here just as fast!!!

orthodoct

11-25-2016, 04:44 PM

Roadster

12-14-2016, 07:38 PM

Mine listed as shipped the day after I ordered them 11/5 with expected delivery date 12/30. We'll see!

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Just arrived today, they are here.....the splits......and the correct length....
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p138/SSROADSTER/94%20ZR-1/20161214_182829.jpg (http://s127.photobucket.com/user/SSROADSTER/media/94%20ZR-1/20161214_182829.jpg.html)