Big Brakes under A Molds

[USAFPILOT]

What is the best set of brakes to use with the factory Wheels?

[USAFPILOT]

I'm looking at this kit and I think it will work, but they don't seem to offer anything for the rear.

http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdFront.aspx?itemno=140-8337-DR&year=1996&make=Chevrolet&model=Corvette&option=C-4+w%2f+HD+Brake+Option+13%22+Front+Rotor

[XfireZ51]

You'll need to confirm the hub offset which shows as .88" on the spec sheet.
Can these be used w stock rotor?

[GOLDCYLON]

That's what I am running on my front of my 91 with 17s Fikse FM-5s. I know you can run the C5 brake upgrade under a set of A Molds. I'm 90% certain that will fit under factory A Molds as the guy I bought my set from was running them behind factory sawblades and I believe the sawblades are tighter than A molds.

However your mileage may vary. GC

[GOLDCYLON]

I'm looking at this kit and I think it will work, but they don't seem to offer anything for the rear.

http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdFront.aspx?itemno=140-8337-DR&year=1996&make=Chevrolet&model=Corvette&option=C-4+w%2f+HD+Brake+Option+13%22+Front+Rotor

You would need to go with the street shop upgrade with the DPC56 C5 direct replacement 4 piston wilwoods for a stock C5 rear. If you want to retain your parking brake

The registry has a group buy going on on the street shop upgrade at the moment in the registry only section

[GOLDCYLON]

You'll need to confirm the hub offset which shows as .88" on the spec sheet.
Can these be used w stock rotor?

No they can't. However the kit he is planning on using or buying comes with the SRP Wilwood drilled and slotted rotors as a part of the kit. It identical to my kit on my 91

[BigJohn]

13.5" four piston Brembo's fit!

[XfireZ51]

13.5" four piston Brembo's fit!


Try finding it. My Black Rose actually came w those brakes.

[-=Jeff=-]

13.5" four piston Brembo's fit!


That is an readily available kit. Actually is was never offered as a kit. Assuming it is on your callaway it was created by them. Do you have any pictures?


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[XfireZ51]

That is an readily available kit. Actually is was never offered as a kit. Assuming it is on your call away it was created by them. Do you have any pictures?


Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry (https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=90383)

Wasn't this a kit put together for Callaway?

[USAFPILOT]

I searched the Brembo website and they dont show anything available for our cars. Is the group buy going on for the rear C5 brakes or the whole package? I do want my parking brake to work.

[-=Jeff=-]

Well since big john is figuring out how to take pictures of his brakes

Exotic Musle makes a kit

http://emracingcorp.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=365

[XfireZ51]

Well since big john is figuring out how to take pictures of his brakes

Exotic Musle makes a kit

http://emracingcorp.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=365

Wow! 2500 bucks for the fronts alone??? I don't think I have that in my C6Z brakes front AND rear. Would this require use of the C5Z wheel?

[Mystic ZR-1]

Big John's ZR-1 isn't the normal garden variety ZR-1!!!
😀
(his "plow truck" isn't garden variety either!)
Hope he doesn't get to use it this year...
😀

[BigJohn]

Big John's ZR-1 isn't the normal garden variety ZR-1!!!
😀
(his "plow truck" isn't garden variety either!)
Hope he doesn't get to use it this year...
😀

If they want a picture of my stock wheels they are on your car!

[BigJohn]

Like this?

[BigJohn]

Hey I remember this car!

[BigJohn]

Maybe this is it!

[XfireZ51]

Like this?


Gorgeous!

[USAFPILOT]

Id do those brembos if I could find them. especially if the rears match.

[BigJohn]

Yes the rears match with a single piston parking break also.

[USAFPILOT]

no idea where to find them, email is in to Brembo; but I'm leaning towards the wilwood fronts and relocating my rear calipers to use a 13" rear rotor. ran across this:

http://dougrippie.com/products/drm-c4-wilwood-front-brake-kit/

Are these older parts?

[GOLDCYLON]

no idea where to find them, email is in to Brembo; but I'm leaning towards the wilwood fronts and relocating my rear calipers to use a 13" rear rotor. ran across this:

http://dougrippie.com/products/drm-c4-wilwood-front-brake-kit/

Are these older parts?

You will be hard pressed to get a 13 inch rotor on the rear and the calipers to clear your 17 inch wheels. 18 inch all day.

Also you will lose your parking brake unless you go with the old school extra caliper or you go with the street shop mod with matching Wilwood script calipers front and rear as I suggested. GC

[secondchance]

12.88 inch rear vented rotor with Wilwood 4 piston caliper and mechanical parking brake solution fits within 17" A mold.

http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20762

[USAFPILOT]

12.88 inch rear vented rotor with Wilwood 4 piston caliper and mechanical parking brake solution fits within 17" A mold.

http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20762

yeah, I like that. do you have the part numbers?

[USAFPILOT]

You will be hard pressed to get a 13 inch rotor on the rear and the calipers to clear your 17 inch wheels. 18 inch all day.

Also you will lose your parking brake unless you go with the old school extra caliper or you go with the street shop mod with matching Wilwood script calipers front and rear as I suggested. GC

aren't our factory J55 rotors 13" or are they 12.88?

[GOLDCYLON]

aren't our factory J55 rotors 13" or are they 12.88?

Factory fronts are 13 inch and rears are 12 inch. I think Wilwood makes them a little smaller with a different offset so they will clear. The secret to the brembro's clearing are huge offset hubs at least on the 10-15 year old setups I saw. I stuck with 12 inch rear rotors and Wilwood 4 piston DPC 56's. More surface caliper area meets the rotor vs the 13 inch anyway and I wanted to make sure the calipers cleared within my Fikse FM-5s. also the DPC56 are plenty big enough

[secondchance]

yeah, I like that. do you have the part numbers?

Go to revolutionbrake.com.
http://store.revolutionbrake.com/14-0106.html

This kit comes with Mr. Parker's mechanical brake. This install requires 3/4" cut from parking brake cable bracket where the parking cable terminates at the rear of the car and two clevises and M6 (I think) bolt with head cut off to join clevises between the parking brake cable and mechanical caliper lever.

This was not totally sorted out kit when I bought and installed it but worked out fine with some additional engineering.

[USAFPILOT]

Willwood emailed me back and basically said they dont guarantee the fit with any wheel and that I have to measure. Anyone know if the kit I listed in the beginning of this thread works with A Molds?

[-=Jeff=-]

Not a Direct answer but:

on my car.. I had C5 front brakes, fit behind the A-mold. I swapped to the Shelby, to fit I needed a spacer. Now I have wilwoods, like your link, with my Shelby's and no spacer. I believe they will fit without issue. in fact I believe Bob Gillig has those brakes with A-molds and no issues.

Maybe you could convince GC to bolt up an A-mold from his 90 to his 91 to confirm for you

[USAFPILOT]

Not a Direct answer but:

on my car.. I had C5 front brakes, fit behind the A-mold. I swapped to the Shelby, to fit I needed a spacer. Now I have wilwoods, like your link, with my Shelby's and no spacer. I believe they will fit without issue. in fact I believe Bob Gillig has those brakes with A-molds and no issues.

Maybe you could convince GC to bolt up an A-mold from his 90 to his 91 to confirm for you

I am running Shelby's myself, but just want the option to run my A-Molds. Glad to hear they work with the Shelby's.

Did you do Wilwoods on the rear or leave the stock rear brakes?

[USAFPILOT]

I also can't find the group buy thread mentioned by GC.

[-=Jeff=-]

I am running Shelby's myself, but just want the option to run my A-Molds. Glad to hear they work with the Shelby's.

Did you do Wilwoods on the rear or leave the stock rear brakes?

I did not.. I ran out of $$ LOL

The brake adapter is ~$700 before group buy price..

Rear brakes are ~$1700, although the have a DPC kit for ~$800

So at the time my cost was $2400 and I did not have that in the front kit that I bought used. I am using stock rears. but I had problems with my parking brake working (does now), but at the time I looked at rear early C4 drums with early brakes, although now I am not sure I would do anything, I guess I would upgrade to the C5 DPC kit and re-shoe my C4 parking brake pads and run those potentially, never gave it thought after getting the parking brake to work

[RussMcB]

I've been resisting the urge to pop into this thread and ask, are big brakes really needed?

I've punished my (mostly) stock brakes on mountain runs and race tracks, and I haven't noticed them being unable to keep up with the tires' grip.

I admit big brakes are very cool, but considering the expense (and my perceived lack of need), there are plenty of other places to spend money to improve performance.

I am open to being educated if there are times when people have experienced significant shortcomings of the stock brakes.

Thanks.

[GOLDCYLON]

I've been resisting the urge to pop into this thread and ask, are big brakes really needed?

I've punished my (mostly) stock brakes on mountain runs and race tracks, and I haven't noticed them being unable to keep up with the tires' grip.

I admit big brakes are very cool, but considering the expense (and my perceived lack of need), there are plenty of other places to spend money to improve performance.

I am open to being educated if there are times when people have experienced significant shortcomings of the stock brakes.

Thanks.


For a Stock ZR-1 I don't see the necessity. The OEM systems are pretty good. However, when you start stroking the motor to push the HP envelope you need to upgrade the transmission, The cooling, beefing up the half shafts u joints, the suspension and the yes the brakes etc. A lot of folks will spend upwards of 10-15k on their motor to make the car faster beyond original design. Now apply that to stock parts and you have exceeded design tolerance and that's when stuff starts breaking. If all about safety once your surpass the OEM limits of the car. Its a little harder to stop a 500 hp ZR-1

[XfireZ51]

As one of those that's gone through the process of upgrading to big brakes,
I am going to tell you it was a very worthwhile improvement.
Had C5 brakes on my first ZR, the Black Rose came w Brembos on the front.
As GC says, if you are taking a stock motor from 375 up to ~ 540(like mine)
the Z06 brakes provide a great sense of security. They require less pedal pressure to stop in the same distance. W similar pedal pressure they are going to stop quicker w much less chance of lockup.
They do look great, especially if you are using a larger diameter wheel like the stock C6Z06 star wheels.
Worth every penny in my book.

[GOLDCYLON]

This is what is going on my rear on my 91 not this weekend but the following weekend along with the street shop mod

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WILWOOD-DISC-BRAKE-KIT-REAR-97-13-CORVETTE-C-5-C-6-Z06-ROTORS-CALIPERS-PADS-RED-/401040361732?fits=Model%3ACorvette&hash=item5d5fde4904:g:UXcAAOSwnH1WavnW&vxp=mtr

I picked em up local for $700 out the door :cheers:

[RussMcB]

For a Stock ZR-1 I don't see the necessity. The OEM systems are pretty good. However, when you start stroking the motor to push the HP envelope you need to upgrade the transmission, The cooling, beefing up the half shafts u joints, the suspension and the yes the brakes etc. A lot of folks will spend upwards of 10-15k on their motor to make the car faster beyond original design. Now apply that to stock parts and you have exceeded design tolerance and that's when stuff starts breaking. If all about safety once your surpass the OEM limits of the car. Its a little harder to stop a 500 hp ZR-1Thanks. Good reasoning.

[USAFPILOT]

This is what is going on my rear on my 91 not this weekend but the following weekend along with the street shop mod

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WILWOOD-DISC-BRAKE-KIT-REAR-97-13-CORVETTE-C-5-C-6-Z06-ROTORS-CALIPERS-PADS-RED-/401040361732?fits=Model%3ACorvette&hash=item5d5fde4904:g:UXcAAOSwnH1WavnW&vxp=mtr

I picked em up local for $700 out the door :cheers:

I think this is the route I will take, I am having trouble getting my membership renewed on the registry, can you make sure the folks doing the group by know I want in? I am waiting on the mods to fix me up.

[GOLDCYLON]

I think this is the route I will take, I am having trouble getting my membership renewed on the registry, can you make sure the folks doing the group by know I want in? I am waiting on the mods to fix me up.

on the street shop mod sure ?

[USAFPILOT]

on the street shop mod sure ?

Is there anywhere else to purchase the street shop
mod bracket?

[USAFPILOT]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wilwood-140-11920-DR-FNSL-4R-Rear-Disc-Brake-Kit-1984-87-Corvette-C4-/261943243573

Would this not work on a 94?

[GOLDCYLON]

Is there anywhere else to purchase the street shop
mod bracket?

Sure but not at the registrys discount group buy price

[GOLDCYLON]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wilwood-140-11920-DR-FNSL-4R-Rear-Disc-Brake-Kit-1984-87-Corvette-C4-/261943243573

Would this not work on a 94?

I think the issue is the rotor. But I am not sure

[USAFPILOT]

Sure but not at the registrys discount group buy price

I'm googling it and coming up with nothing

[GOLDCYLON]

Www.streetshopinc.com

[-=Jeff=-]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wilwood-140-11920-DR-FNSL-4R-Rear-Disc-Brake-Kit-1984-87-Corvette-C4-/261943243573

Would this not work on a 94?

no, different set-up.. you will still lose the parking brake

[GOLDCYLON]

no, different set-up.. you will still lose the parking brake

Yep and the rotors are wrong

[-=Jeff=-]

Yep and the rotors are wrong

I think the picture is not correct..

If they sold the cheaper kit like the C5 kit, I think I could make the 87 parking brake work on our cars..

[BigJohn]

Going cheap can be a waste of time.

[-=Jeff=-]

Not always


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[GOLDCYLON]

I think the best way forward is the street shop mod with the C5 Calipers. All the adapter math is worked out and all you need are longer wheel studs and C5 Caliper bolts (I have the POC for the bolts now lol)

[GOLDCYLON]

Not always


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Unfortunately usually sometimes always only in months with "R"'s in them

[-=Jeff=-]

To expand my answer..

something like this for the C5
http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdRear.aspx?itemno=140-15176-DR&year=2003&make=Chevrolet&model=Corvette&option=C-5+%26+Z06

but with rotors to work with the C4

this is the 87 rear kit..
http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdRear.aspx?itemno=140-11920-DR&year=1987&make=Chevrolet&model=Corvette&option=C-4

[-=Jeff=-]

I think the best way forward is the street shop mod with the C5 Calipers. All the adapter math is worked out and all you need are longer wheel studs and C5 Caliper bolts (I have the POC for the bolts now lol)

Yes I agree, but I have the 87 adapters for for the drum Parking brake. I have them machined to work on the back of my car.. so the C5 kit with C4 Rotor hats would be the perfect match for me..

[BigJohn]

Funny thing is all GM rotors are right hand!

[-=Jeff=-]

Funny thing is all GM rotors are right hand!

:confused: explain please...

ALL Rotors? or ALL REAR rotors?

[GOLDCYLON]

To expand my answer..

something like this for the C5
http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdRear.aspx?itemno=140-15176-DR&year=2003&make=Chevrolet&model=Corvette&option=C-5+%26+Z06

but with rotors to work with the C4

this is the 87 rear kit..
http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdRear.aspx?itemno=140-11920-DR&year=1987&make=Chevrolet&model=Corvette&option=C-4

Hmm I wonder is the picture is off for that 87 rear kit. They are call them 4 piston narrow lites but they sure look like 4 piston DPC56s for the C5

[BigJohn]

:confused: explain please...

ALL Rotors? or ALL REAR rotors?


GM in order to save money; they only purchased right side rotors and installed right front on both right and left sides. The rear rotors also have right side on both sides.

[USAFPILOT]

if I do the C5 brake rotor kit with the street shop mod, will my rear wheels stick out further than normal?

[-=Jeff=-]

if I do the C5 brake rotor kit with the street shop mod, will my rear wheels stick out further than normal?

Good question

I think the best way forward is the street shop mod with the C5 Calipers. All the adapter math is worked out and all you need are longer wheel studs and C5 Caliper bolts (I have the POC for the bolts now lol)

you need the longer wheels stud because the rotor is thicker?

[USAFPILOT]

All of this headache is due to the parking brake huh, what is the difference between the two parking brakes? What if I wanted the stand alone parking brake caliper I've seen on some other cars?

[-=Jeff=-]

GM in order to save money; they only purchased right side rotors and installed right front on both right and left sides. The rear rotors also have right side on both sides.

if the vent vanes are straight up and down I can see that.. but I have seen right and left and they are truly right and left

[USAFPILOT]

Hmm I wonder is the picture is off for that 87 rear kit. They are call them 4 piston narrow lites but they sure look like 4 piston DPC56s for the C5

Thats part of what is making me think alot about this. Those look like the same calipers to me. The difference has to be the rotors, and how the parking brake functions. I can tell the Hat on the 84-87 hit is taller or deeper, I guess the parking brake kit goes inside.

I emailed the guys doing the Street Shop mod and got some pictures of their parts, which look like they have to fit inside that part of the rotor, so I'm not sure how the C5 Rotor would work at all.

http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l629/ttupilot/Street%20Shop%20Mod%202%20front.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/ttupilot/media/Street%20Shop%20Mod%202%20front.jpg.html)

http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l629/ttupilot/Street%20Shop%20Mod%201%20rear.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/ttupilot/media/Street%20Shop%20Mod%201%20rear.jpg.html)

[-=Jeff=-]

Thats part of what is making me think alot about this. Those look like the same calipers to me. The difference has to be the rotors, and how the parking brake functions. I can tell the Hat on the 84-87 hit is taller or deeper, I guess the parking brake kit goes inside.

I emailed the guys doing the Street Shop mod and got some pictures of their parts, which look like they have to fit inside that part of the rotor, so I'm not sure how the C5 Rotor would work at all.


To clear things a bit.. the C5 rear and C4 rear calipers from Wilwood LOOK the same but are different:
C5:
Lug mount
2.46 Piston Area
One piece rotor in the DPC kit

C4:
Radial Mount
1.98 Piston Area
2 Piece rotor/Hat (hat is also iron for parking brake)

Stock C5 rotors have the shoe surface in the hat, looks can be deceiving. remember the caliper brake surface is not offset the same as the C4. I have looked into using the C4 parking brake assemble but you cannot mix them with C5, The C5 drum diameter is bigger. but the C4 is more like a true drum brake. I have seen adapter brackets for stock C5 calipers/ rotors for 84-96 C4s, but the 89-96 will lose the parking brake. with the 87 style you need custom shoes on the brake (thicker)

I think if I got the Mounting brackets and calipers from the Wilwood kit, I could make them work on my car with all the part I currently have (that are not currently on the car)

[USAFPILOT]

So if I do this Street Shop mod, and use the C5 Calipers and Rotor, longer wheel studs etc. Will my parking brake cable reach to whatever it needs to activate the different parking brake?

Also still wondering if my wheels would poke any more than they already do. Shelby's are right to the edge of the fender.

[-=Jeff=-]

So if I do this Street Shop mod, and use the C5 Calipers and Rotor, longer wheel studs etc. Will my parking brake cable reach to whatever it needs to activate the different parking brake?

Also still wondering if my wheels would poke any more than they already do. Shelby's are right to the edge of the fender.

No, you need the lokar cables to run from the 'front' parking brake cable and then can be adjusted

for the Shelby's, I am still not sure why the longer studs are needed BUT you can move the Shelby centers outboard and get the wheel to tuck in if needed

[USAFPILOT]

true, i forgot about that

[GOLDCYLON]

No, you need the lokar cables to run from the 'front' parking brake cable and then can be adjusted

for the Shelby's, I am still not sure why the longer studs are needed BUT you can move the Shelby centers outboard and get the wheel to tuck in if needed

Just buy the ARPs they are reasonable in cost from JEGS and ship fast and its a just in case. You would hate to be there and damn I need longer studs

[GOLDCYLON]

All of this headache is due to the parking brake huh, what is the difference between the two parking brakes? What if I wanted the stand alone parking brake caliper I've seen on some other cars?

Its the old school method. Nothing wrong with it its just another caliper in there

[GOLDCYLON]

Good question



you need the longer wheels stud because the rotor is thicker?

Folks on the other thread said you need longer studs. I assume the hub and the rotor make that so ?

[USAFPILOT]

What if we changes the rear knuckle to that of an 87? Then we could just use the regular 84-87 kit right?

[USAFPILOT]

Do you have part numbers for those bolts and wheel studs?

[USAFPILOT]

I asked Trey at streetshop about the longer wheel studs being needed.

he says "Not true. Hub width and stud length remain unchanged unless the wildwood rotor hats are thicker than stock."

Anyone know if the wilwoods are thicker, and if so by how much?

[BigJohn]

if the vent vanes are straight up and down I can see that.. but I have seen right and left and they are truly right and left

Next time you see a 2016 or 2017 Z06 & Z07 take a close look at their rotors!

[-=Jeff=-]

Next time you see a 2016 or 2017 Z06 & Z07 take a close look at their rotors!

Oh I know about those..

Last time I checked , this thread was talking about C4 and C5 brakes.. NOT C7

It helps when you actually add the information first..

[-=Jeff=-]

I asked Trey at streetshop about the longer wheel studs being needed.

he says "Not true. Hub width and stud length remain unchanged unless the wildwood rotor hats are thicker than stock."

Anyone know if the wilwoods are thicker, and if so by how much?

FWIW the front Wilwood hubs are about the same as stock from what I recall. I did not use a micrometer to check them for accuracy though

I would say the rear will be stock thickness since they are iron. I am thinking you will not need the longer studs.

[-=Jeff=-]

Folks on the other thread said you need longer studs. I assume the hub and the rotor make that so ?


just the rotor.. the bearing assembly bolts to that hub assemble from Street shop, which has nothing to do with the studs, that is why I asked as it was not completely making sense

[BigJohn]

Oh I know about those..

Last time I checked , this thread was talking about C4 and C5 brakes.. NOT C7

It helps when you actually add the information first..

Since 1960 all GM disc brake rotors are right hand only for all production vehicles C4, C5 and C6 are included.

[-=Jeff=-]

Since 1960 all GM disc brake rotors are right hand only for all production vehicles C4, C5 and C6 are included.

so then the vanes will be directionally backwards on one side?

the 13 J55 had directional vanes..

as did the C5 brakes I had on my 89.. so how is it the same number?

[USAFPILOT]

Folks on the other thread said you need longer studs. I assume the hub and the rotor make that so ?

I finally renewed my membership to the registry, can you get me access into that forum now where the other thread is.?

[GOLDCYLON]

Its in the General Section, Registry Members Only thread

[BigJohn]

so then the vanes will be directionally backwards on one side?

the 13 J55 had directional vanes..

as did the C5 brakes I had on my 89.. so how is it the same number?

For street use directionally doesn't make much difference.

[-=Jeff=-]

Agreed.. so you are saying they have the right part number not the wrong one.. lol


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[emmvette]

A couple pics of my older Brembo Brakes: They have been great brakes!
First pic is front with hat removed -

http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss217/emmvette/IMG_0820_zpsxgukrzui.jpg

http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss217/emmvette/ZR-1/photo_zpsedd7dd5b.jpg

[GOLDCYLON]

Looks very old school and Great. Looks like you need a little refresh maybe PC em

[XfireZ51]

Is that a spacer on the rear?

[-=Jeff=-]

no it is a very thick hat honestly

[GOLDCYLON]

Yep that is true the front hub is similar as it pushes the wheel
Away for clearance

[emmvette]

Looks very old school and Great. Looks like you need a little refresh maybe PC em

PC em? OK, I must need coffee this morning; what does PC stand for?

[GOLDCYLON]

PC em? OK, I must need coffee this morning; what does PC stand for?

Powder Coated.

Definitely not Politically Correct lol

[-=Jeff=-]

Powder Coated.

Definitely not Politically Correct lol


Powder correct?

Politically coated?

LOL


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[USAFPILOT]

Cool...the send caliper on the rear is for the parking brake right?

[BigJohn]

Yep!