GM's KOTH ZR1 Legacy

[XfireZ51]

Recently, rumors of a new mid-engine ZR1 Corvette have become more realistic w the exposure of a mid-engine running around the Tech Center in broad daylight. Just thinking about it, we have had a ZR-1 in the C3, C4, C6, and now possibly the C8 generations. I suspect this isn't just a haphazard type of thing but would be interested in others thoughts.

Hib,

Would be very interested in your views and insights given your history and journalistic history.

[tpepmeie]

I believe the first ZR-1 was a C3. Around 1970.

[Bob Eyres]

The corporate marketing nabobs will ultimately rule on this, but it's my opinion that if this mid-engine car comes to market it should be dubbed the ZR1 for these reasons:

In legend, if not in established fact, the terms ZR1 and ZR2 were coined in the early 1970's to refer to those rare competition cars as "Zora's Racers".

Zora Arkus Duntov has always been well known as the prime exponent of mid- engine variants of the Corvette for numerous engineering reasons.

Even though Mr. Duntov's dream of a mid-engine Chevy supercar never came to pass within his tenure. This new 21st. Century car should wear his name as a lasting tribute to him as the one man that almost singlehandedly saved the Corvette from the dustbin of history, as just another corporate "T-Bird".

And if for whatever reason they decide, this time, to leave the term ZR1 on the shelf, I propose that they just use the term "ZORA" for the new Corvette.
It's a great name, with history and deep meaning for us. And the car is going to kick ***.

[XfireZ51]

I believe the first ZR-1 was a C3. Around 1970.

Yeah ypur right Todd. Apologies for the misinformation.
Made the correction above.

[Regimof]

I've read, more than once, that powering said beast might be a 4 cam, 32 valve motor....

[cvette98pacecar]

She's coming, It may not be a mid engine car. But it will have 4 cams and VVT timing.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-engines/lt5/

[Z51JEFF]

If this car does come together Mid Engine I HOPE IT ISNT A V6. Have heard several rumors of a V6 floating around lately.

[XfireZ51]

If this car does come together Mid Engine I HOPE IT ISNT A V6. Have heard several rumors of a V6 floating around lately.

What's somewhat frustrating is that GM has done a fine job developing
OHC architecture on their V6's. :salute:

[Paul Workman]

What's somewhat frustrating is that GM has done a fine job developing
OHC architecture on their V6's. :salute:

Well said! Just as a teaser, the performance of our 2016 4900+ pound Buick Enclave w/ the N/A V6, (3.6L 24 valve, DOHC, VVT, DI) is amazing - all things (49xx pounds) considered. (And an even better (the improvede LFX) is slated for 2017.) The flat torque curve of the LLT delivers the same kind of pull characteristics of our beloved LT5s - maybe a bit better, actually(?). In short: The combo of engine and transmission compares very well with V8 performance of yesteryear: no doubt about it! So, hold that thought...

In case nobody at Corvette noticed (but I'm sure they did), Corvette isn't doing nearly as well as past years at some of the most prestigious events of late.

Arguably, the 24hr Le Mans race is the pinnacle of GT racing. And ALL 4 of the top 4 winners on the of the 2016 24hr Le Mans GT1 winners were mid-engine cars powered with DOHC motors, and 3 of the top 4 positions (1st. 3rd. and 4th) were occupied by the FORD mid-engine, DOHC, 32 valve V8s! To see that must have left a sour taste of frustration in the mouths of the Corvette engineers...as it does to a lot of Corvette supporters and buyers, for sure!

At the last Chicago WANNAGOFAST event in 2014, Corvette wasn't anywhere close to the top 4 in the 1/2 mile top speed event. In fact not even one in the top 20. You had to dig down to 25th place to find any Corvette. Now there's no sign of Corvette in the winner's circle at Le Mans. Does these two examples say anything?

(Incidentally, the fastest car as well as several...perhaps most...of the 2014 WANNAGOFAST cars were FI V6s. Just a thought teaser...)

Its high time for a new ZR1 to occupy the winners podium(s) again. And, to the casual observer, the writing has been on the wall for some time now - even w/in GM's halls. And the winning car design and engine architecture of late is leaving Corvette fans wanting something better. What better way to reinstate the LT5 (and the ZR-1) to the recognition it deserves than to acknowledge it with a modern version of the architecture that was so dominant then and even more so now. (We) want the reemergence of the KOTH!:worship:

[XfireZ51]

BTW Paul,

I think the 25th fastest car there was Al's 441 at 160mph.

[Paul Workman]

BTW Paul,

I think the 25th fastest car there was Al's 441 at 160mph.

No, actually that was a Vengeance Racing prepped C5 - the same one that cooked my ZR in 2014 (?). It was listed as N/A and ran @ 171.xx in the 1/2 mile from a dig. (I remember that car, cuz I was paired with it and ran against him.) N/A? I never found out. But when it staged, it "idled" like a box of rocks and smelled NOT of pump gas (to me).

[Kevin]

Well said! Just as a teaser, the performance of our 2016 4900+ pound Buick Enclave w/ the N/A V6, (3.6L 24 valve, DOHC, VVT, DI) is amazing - all things (49xx pounds) considered. (And an even better (the improvede LFX) is slated for 2017.) The flat torque curve of the LLT delivers the same kind of pull characteristics of our beloved LT5s - maybe a bit better, actually(?). In short: The combo of engine and transmission compares very well with V8 performance of yesteryear: no doubt about it! So, hold that thought...

In case nobody at Corvette noticed (but I'm sure they did), Corvette isn't doing nearly as well as past years at some of the most prestigious events of late.

Arguably, the 24hr Le Mans race is the pinnacle of GT racing. And ALL 4 of the top 4 winners on the of the 2016 24hr Le Mans GT1 winners were mid-engine cars powered with DOHC motors, and 3 of the top 4 positions (1st. 3rd. and 4th) were occupied by the FORD mid-engine, DOHC, 32 valve V8s! To see that must have left a sour taste of frustration in the mouths of the Corvette engineers...as it does to a lot of Corvette supporters and buyers, for sure!

At the last Chicago WANNAGOFAST event in 2014, Corvette wasn't anywhere close to the top 4 in the 1/2 mile top speed event. In fact not even one in the top 20. You had to dig down to 25th place to find any Corvette. Now there's no sign of Corvette in the winner's circle at Le Mans. Does these two examples say anything?

(Incidentally, the fastest car as well as several...perhaps most...of the 2014 WANNAGOFAST cars were FI V6s. Just a thought teaser...)

Its high time for a new ZR1 to occupy the winners podium(s) again. And, to the casual observer, the writing has been on the wall for some time now - even w/in GM's halls. And the winning car design and engine architecture of late is leaving Corvette fans wanting something better. What better way to reinstate the LT5 (and the ZR-1) to the recognition it deserves than to acknowledge it with a modern version of the architecture that was so dominant then and even more so now. (We) want the reemergence of the KOTH!:worship:

le mans was an FIA ploy to get a ford/ferrari show down and they got it. Look at the imsa race the week after. the fia and ford went to risi and "explained" to him that it was important that ford win

[Z51JEFF]

I will agree a V6 is the way of the future,at least that's what Ford would have everyone believe but GM needs to do it with a V8. If they did go with a V6 that would seem too obvious that maybe they were competing with Ford. Will we ever see another V6 in a Ferrari, I doubt it. While all of the exotics went multi cams,valves GM was able to get it done with the good ol V8 recipe and still smoke um for the most part. I for one will be very disappointed if the new car is a V6. If they can kick some a$$ with the current V6 arraignment think of what they will do with a V8. It's fine Ford wants to push a V6 but GM can do better. That new Ford GT is an absolutely gorgeous car,but a V6? I don't care how much power it makes,make mine a V8.

[XfireZ51]

Highlighting GMs 6cyl was to make the point that GM has very good credentials regarding OHC configurations. So if they can do a fine job w 6's, why not a V8?
Did Ford go V8 for LeMans?

[Paul Workman]

Highlighting GMs 6cyl was to make the point that GM has very good credentials regarding OHC configurations. So if they can do a fine job w 6's, why not a V8?
Did Ford go V8 for LeMans?

V8? Well, now you make me wanna look up the source again to be sure. Geeze... Talk about adding insult to injury...what if Ford was using a V6 after all, and NOT a V8!!

Hmmmm... anybody got their finger on it? V6 or V8???

[tpepmeie]

Its a V6 twin turbo. Ecoboost is their marketing name I think.

[XfireZ51]

Its a V6 twin turbo. Ecoboost is their marketing name I think.

Right Todd. But I thought I read somewhere for racing they used an 8. The V6 wasn't cutting it for LeMans supposedly. I very well could be mistaken.

[LGAFF]

http://www.hotrod.com/news/1604-ford-gt-switches-from-ecoboost-v6-to-v8s-for-le-mans-racing-program/

[rush91]

Right Todd. But I thought I read somewhere for racing they used an 8. The V6 wasn't cutting it for LeMans supposedly. I very well could be mistaken.
It was always going too be a twin turbo V6. Seeing how the new Raptor shares the same engine, makes sense from manufacturing standpoint. V6 is lighter, and weight is key in racing. As i have no doubt the Corvette is going mid engined now. And mark my words, we WILL see a production V6 in a Vette very soon......twin turbo, around 500hp, and make it a base model. Oh and make it a special front engined model, as the front engined ones will be phased out.....

[tpepmeie]

http://www.hotrod.com/news/1604-ford-gt-switches-from-ecoboost-v6-to-v8s-for-le-mans-racing-program/

you do realize that was an April Fools joke, right?

[KPW]

If we are considering the race world, there's been a mid engined Corvette for years now ;)

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160716/b03df5fa68b908a1aa1cf6b734b9d262.jpg


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[XfireZ51]

http://www.hotrod.com/news/1604-ford-gt-switches-from-ecoboost-v6-to-v8s-for-le-mans-racing-program/

I think I'm the one that got pranked Todd.

[XfireZ51]

If we are considering the race world, there's been a mid engined Corvette for years now ;)

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160716/b03df5fa68b908a1aa1cf6b734b9d262.jpg


Sent from my iPad using ZR-1 Net Registry (https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=90383)

Yep. Always thought that wasn't for just sh*ts and giggles.