ZR-1 vs Shelby

[8cam]

Ok either the ZR-1 is about the size of an MG, or the Shelby is an RV! Ok not quite that bad, but it sure felt like my car was dwarfed by the GT350. A friend brought his new toy by today and I got to drive it. Holy cow what an amazing car, and yes absolutely pastes my old vette. Loved it.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb49/mlitherland/ZR-1/IMG_2625_zpstukcdirv.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb49/mlitherland/ZR-1/IMG_2627_zpsnlgqjzwx.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb49/mlitherland/ZR-1/IMG_2626_zpsfdpfdn8j.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb49/mlitherland/ZR-1/IMG_2628_zpsr2uk1bii.jpg

[Kevin]

my mazda 6 "Feels" small...I had a c4 behind me yesterday, could only see the top of the windshield.

[8cam]

Standing next to it, with the Z ahead, it was shocking just how large it looked. The Z looked like a Miata...a very wide Miata.

The sound is otherworldly, fantastic. That flat-crank V8 sounds like a crazed animal, especially off-throttle with all the spits and pops (sport mode is awesome). It really does sound like a much bigger version of my 308's V8. I only drove it for about 15 minutes, and it's still in the break-in period so I didn't go much over 5k rpm, but even then it's just astounding. The turn-in is super-responsive and will grab quickly if you're not careful. The clutch is a little strange, with resistance in the first inch, and then it's like tissue paper, very light, with a pinpoint engagement. Nothing like the progressive clutch in the Corvette. Oh and the brakes are RIGHT NOW.

Honestly I loved it, and if I was new car shopping in the $60-70k range, this would be a strong contender. Absolutely amazing car. It was a fun afternoon.

I will say it's also amazing how well the ZR-1 compares, being 26 years old. It's clearly a bit slower in all respects, but the steering turn-in and feel is pretty similar. The seat/steering wheel/pedal relationship is surprisingly similar, and those Recaro seats feel almost exactly like the 90 sport seats.

The real kicker will be when he brings it to the next autocross and we can compare notes. I fully expect him to be a lot quicker, but it'll be fun to run after him.

[ZR-1 Franz]

When this Shelby is so fantastic, why doesn't anybody try (the Ford company included)
to get the world records the ZR-1 was able to get?
I know, Volkswagen got them, in some way the same way they manipulated their
diesel cars. Nice company! Not gentlemen like!

Franz

[Vette73]

True the ZR1 set records for top speed for a given amount of hours but in the real world how often are we going to put those claims to the test? None....

I think what he was trying to get at was in the real world of driving- acceleration, braking,driving aggressive for a half a mile or so, the Shelby just left the Z behind....

It's understandable due to the technology that we have gained in the past two decades...

[G8nightman]

True should compare a 90 mustang to a 90 Z :-)

[rush91]

I got to ride along in a new Shelby last weekend. It was as you described....An assault on the senses. When the exhaust was changed from the default to the track mode, OH my GOODNESS!!! The sound was incredibly NASCAR like, wake the dead, and lovely!!
Seeing them parked next to each other, reminds me how far ahead of its time the ZR-1 was. And to me, it still looks like something out of the future.

[Fully Vetted]

In a lot of ways this new Shelby is doing the same thing the ZR-1 did in '90. They are taking a current platform and putting a stand alone engine unavailable in any other car and upgrading the rest of the car around it. The new 5.2L FPC engine in the Shelby is every bit as ground breaking as the LT5 was back then. Dollar for dollar the LT5 cost a lot more to develop but every analogy breaks down at some point. Kudos to Ford engineers for having the balls to tell the bean counters to get out of their sandbox.

De'ja' vue all over again...

[8cam]

In a lot of ways this new Shelby is doing the same thing the ZR-1 did in '90. They are taking a current platform and putting a stand alone engine unavailable in any other car and upgrading the rest of the car around it. The new 5.2L FPC engine in the Shelby is every bit as ground breaking as the LT5 was back then. Dollar for dollar the LT5 cost a lot more to develop but every analogy breaks down at some point. Kudos to Ford engineers for having the balls to tell the bean counters to get out of their sandbox.

De'ja' vue all over again...

BINGO.

Of course the Shelby is faster than the ZR-1 everywhere, it's 26 years newer! Hard to find published top speed numbers, but I'd bet it's well in excess of 180mph. 1/4 mile times look slightly quicker, but where it shines is on a road course, where it will absolutely walk away. My time was limited and couldn't really push it, but the feel was outstanding.

And yes, real world driving is a whole real world different too, but again...26 years newer. The old Z holds up pretty damn well, and is still an outstanding car.

Cool to see a manufacturer build a car with a radical engine, designed to take down far more expensive competition, and still practical enough to drive every day. Sounds familiar. :D

[Fully Vetted]

I passed one absolutely identical to this one this morning. It was like 2:30 and I was wondering what the heck he was doing out at that time a night during the week. Then it dawned on me. That's the perfect time to drive one. Man, I wished I'd been in my car...

[32valvesftw]

True should compare a 90 mustang to a 90 Z :-)

Having owned a 90 mustang 5.0 and now a 91Z there is not much too compare. For 1990 the Stang was pretty fast, and ZR-1 were so rare on the road I never ran across one to play with, but it would not have been much of a contest. Stock for Stock the V-8 Camaros would run the Stang.

[8cam]

There isn't really a contemporary American factory car you can compare the ZR-1 with. The better comparison would be a 90 Ferrari 348 or Porsche turbo, both more expensive than the Z. These days the Porsches have gone stratospheric, most Ferraris have gone up, but for some reason the 348 has stayed relatively affordable.

I still say that new Shelby is a flat amazing machine. Kudos to Ford.

[Paul Workman]

There isn't really a contemporary American factory car you can compare the ZR-1 with. The better comparison would be a 90 Ferrari 348 or Porsche turbo, both more expensive than the Z. These days the Porsches have gone stratospheric, most Ferraris have gone up, but for some reason the 348 has stayed relatively affordable.

I still say that new Shelby is a flat amazing machine. Kudos to Ford.

I too say Ford engineering is to be commended for having the balls to build that car; THAT motor. Right on, it is the equivalent of the LT5 in its day, far as domestic makers go.

We all know how much 'hate and discontent' was poured all over the ZR-1/LT5 by the jilted 'not invented here' people at GM. I wonder how the FPC'ed 'Stang is going to fair?

Anywayz...I agree: KUDOS to FORD!:cheers:

[Bob Eyres]

Although it's silly to compare styling 30 years apart, I think the Ford is a more successful 21st. Century version of the Mustang look than the C7 is to the C4.

I don't expect many to agree, but I haven't seen a Corvette since the ZR-1 that I like better, body design wise. A no frills Classic. JMHO.

[Hog]

We are talking about a car with a power rating of 526hp@7500rpm with 429hp@4760rpm from 315 cubes "Voodoo" DOHC engine with a 12.0:1 compression ratio weighing between 3760lbs-3798lbs. I would hope that it would outperform a car with 121-151hp less sae net horsepower.

That new 2016 Ford Mustang Shelby GT350 has a coefficient of drag of 0.310 while the C-4 is 0.340(but put the headlights up and that gets destroyed down to 0.402) which is surprising considering how much of a boat the Mustang looks like in comparison. So a record attempt wouldn't be out of the question aerodynamically speaking.

It would be great to be in the Ford engine development tent over the last few years. I wonder what the actual power differences between the 315 cube "Voodoo" flatplane engine and a 315 cube version of a similar engine with a crossplane crank. As with any car, there is a lot of marketing at play, but they could spend a few dollar to make the engine compartment look at least a little appealing.

I guess I'm just not a Mustang guy, but I do appreaciate the engineering that is involved. Ford has taken the Mustang and made wayyyy too many models available. Keywords Mustang, Ford 500 350, GT, Cobra, Shelby, Boss, etc etc etc. Even Chevrolet has done this in the Corvette IMO.

One mistake with the 2nd iteration of the ZR-1 from 90-95 was that there wasn't much visual differentiation between the "run of the mill" L98/LT1 cars and the LT5 version, esp. in a car that effectively doubles the sticker price when you check the rpo ZR1 box.

The technology marches on and I really do love it application to performance vehicles. As time goes on though, it seems that this evolution isn't entirely a positive change. Some of this technology allows automakers to "improve the process of polishing a turd". Engineered obsolescence and thin or cheap materials seems to be a theme. Powertrains seem to get better and better, but the bodies and certain "feel" of some cars is plain y cheap. Maybe some ideology of the way cars used to be built coupled with the technology of today, would make for a great vehicle. The bottom line and making money seems to be king nowadays.


I can hardly wait to take a rip in a 5.2 liter Shelby sounds like a fun car. Hows the off idle torque? Whens the power start to come on?
Thanks

[d15b7]

hi Hog! I just got to drive a GT350 (a regular street version, not the R) at VIR racetrack last month (I'm a pro driving coach and my client had just taken delivery of it and we spent two days down there). the car is amazing (I can't believe how much better than the older mustangs; back in the day I owned a 96 Mustang Cobra, and tracked it occasionally; this new GT350 is incredibly better in every possible way). anyway, powerwise, it's decent off idle but fairly soft til about 3000 rpm, where it begins to wake up and pull. but at 6k rpm? boy howdy! it pulls HARD to 8200!!!! this motor is in it's happy place from 6k on up.

btw it wasn't the engine that impressed me the most; the suspension tuning and the incredible brakes are mind boggling; this car was as good on track as the new GT4 Porsche. simply amazing that its a ford mustang!

my ZR-1 is bone stock -- and powerwise on the street the Z feels like it isn't THAT much off the GT350. especially because we have much more torque down low. normal everyday driving the Z will feel almost as fast to 'regular' folk. but the Z's suspension and brakes aren't even in the same galaxy as the Shelby, given stock for stock. and on the racetrack the GT350 would run away from it.

oh and one last thing - I think my Z sounds fantastic stock. but the Shelby with the electronic cutout engaged? orgasmic above 5k!!!!!!!!

[Hog]

hi Hog! I just got to drive a GT350 (a regular street version, not the R) at VIR racetrack last month (I'm a pro driving coach and my client had just taken delivery of it and we spent two days down there). the car is amazing (I can't believe how much better than the older mustangs; back in the day I owned a 96 Mustang Cobra, and tracked it occasionally; this new GT350 is incredibly better in every possible way). anyway, powerwise, it's decent off idle but fairly soft til about 3000 rpm, where it begins to wake up and pull. but at 6k rpm? boy howdy! it pulls HARD to 8200!!!! this motor is in it's happy place from 6k on up.

btw it wasn't the engine that impressed me the most; the suspension tuning and the incredible brakes are mind boggling; this car was as good on track as the new GT4 Porsche. simply amazing that its a ford mustang!

my ZR-1 is bone stock -- and powerwise on the street the Z feels like it isn't THAT much off the GT350. especially because we have much more torque down low. normal everyday driving the Z will feel almost as fast to 'regular' folk. but the Z's suspension and brakes aren't even in the same galaxy as the Shelby, given stock for stock. and on the racetrack the GT350 would run away from it.

oh and one last thing - I think my Z sounds fantastic stock. but the Shelby with the electronic cutout engaged? orgasmic above 5k!!!!!!!!

Hi d15b7,

Sounds like the Shelby is a whole lot of fun to drive around, esp. when involving some curves/corners to navigate.

Thanks a lot for your input. Take care.

[32valvesftw]

[oh and one last thing - I think my Z sounds fantastic stock. but the Shelby with the electronic cutout engaged? orgasmic above 5k!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]
I had n E39 M5 with DOHC V-8 with aftermarket exhaust, That car had the best sounding exhaust of any car I ever heard. I cannot seem to get close to it with the ZR-1. My ZR-1 is LOUD but lacks the refinement. Hard to explain.

[gmonsen]

The GT350 engine is fantastic. Maybe the best engine being made today anywhere. I drove one the other day for a short test drive. Not enough to tell much about the handling. Hate the size of the thing, though. It's HUGE.

G