Flat Plane Crank LT5

[mgbrv8]

Freshly rebuild LT5 thanks to a grenaded oil pump. They replaced the stock crank with a flat plane. It still isn't broken in yet. I hope the video and the pics work


Video:
https://www.facebook.com/holger.hovemann/videos/1012022775541093/?pnref=story


Pictures
https://www.facebook.com/norbert.vornholt/media_set?set=a.595361453889432.1073741833.1000024 67474204&type=3



David Hetrick

[Fully Vetted]

Would this not be the largest displacement engine ever made with a FPC? I know Fords Coyote is the largest displacement FPC for a OEM at 5.2L. Not sure about aftermarket and/or racing applications.

[mgbrv8]

Would this not be the largest displacement engine ever made with a FPC? I know Fords Coyote is the largest displacement FPC for a OEM at 5.2L. Not sure about aftermarket and/or racing applications.


Boy that is a good question. Im going to ask around?


Dave

[LGAFF]

I believe the Lotus GT-1 was 6.0 Liter

Renewing their ties with General Motors, they managed to get hold of a set of 5.7L LT5 V8’s. Lotus had helped develop this engine for the Corvette ZR1 when it was still a GM subsidiary. The engine was fitted with a flat-plane crankshaft and its displacement was increased to 6.0L. It eventually developed 615 horsepower with FIA-mandated 36mm intake restrictors.

[Hog]

"The factory GT1 Lotus Racing team (run by Fabien Giroixs-First Racing )would be the only ones to opt for the Chevrolet V8 instead of the Lotus 3.5 V8 turbo unit." The other privateer teams (GBF UK and Martin Veyhle Racing) stayed with the 3.5 turbo V8. These 3 teams got the 7 chassis that were built.

The flat plane LT5 was eventually replaced by Dodge V-10's in the Elise. Talk about a step----down. The V-10 couldn't match the lackluster performance of the Chevrolet LT5 V8 or the even worse Lotus 3.5 turbo engine. While the Lotus developed LT5 was a good engine, it was competing against race bred engines and apparently did have the top end power that other pure race engines were delivering.

Here are some LT5 pics the Lotus Elise GT1.(at least I think they are LT5 derivatives. Its tough to decipher as the 3.5 Lotus was a V8 as well, though it was turbocharged

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc202/sagaris400/Elise%20GT1%20No%208/22222222/DSC05065.jpg

http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/experience/competition/gt1rsus.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3055/2756684188_93518c543a_z.jpg

[A26B]

The Moldex flat plane crank was coordinated through Jerrys Gaskets, as well as some gaskets & seals. The Main Studs were developed by Todd Pepmeier.

We are glad to have played a small part in the project.

[Jagdpanzer]

The Moldex flat plane crank was coordinated through Jerrys Gaskets

Jerry,
Another excellent example of support for the LT5 ZR-1 brotherhood!!
How was Moldex to work with and what was their lead time to design and produce the crank?

[tpepmeie]

Hog's pics are indeed the 3.5L twin-turbo V8, not the LT5. You can see the lotus casting logo on the cylinder head, and the turbo plumbing (hard to see).

[XfireZ51]

Would someone clarify what a Flat Plane Crank is, what are the benefits?

[tpepmeie]

Dom,
Imagine the crank throws all on the same "plane", rather than at 90 degrees to each other. Usually it is "up, down, down, up" for the 4 rod journals. Still have a cylinder event every 90 degrees, but they alternate banks (Left, Right, Left, Right, ...). And all the firing intervals are evenly spaced on each bank. Helps exhaust tuning quite a bit, and all cylinders exhibit the same airflow performance. On a 90 degree V-8, certain cylinders can perform up to 8-10% worse than the best cylinder due to exhaust tuning (mainly the closely spaced (90 degrees apart in the firing sequence) cylinders on each side.).

The downside... a considerable secondary shake, in the side-to-side axis. Not as naturally well balanced as a 90-degree crank. And-you can't run a large stroke due to this vibration.

[XfireZ51]

Dom,
Imagine the crank throws all on the same "plane", rather than at 90 degrees to each other. Usually it is "up, down, down, up" for the 4 rod journals. Still have a cylinder event every 90 degrees, but they alternate banks (Left, Right, Left, Right, ...). And all the firing intervals are evenly spaced on each bank. Helps exhaust tuning quite a bit, and all cylinders exhibit the same airflow performance. On a 90 degree V-8, certain cylinders can perform up to 8-10% worse than the best cylinder due to exhaust tuning (mainly the closely spaced (90 degrees apart in the firing sequence) cylinders on each side.).

The downside... a considerable secondary shake, in the side-to-side axis. Not as naturally well balanced as a 90-degree crank. And-you can't run a large stroke due to this vibration.

Todd,

Thanks. I thought the name denoted basically a 180 journal config.

[Fully Vetted]

Because of this configuration they are absolutely insane when under boost.

[XfireZ51]

Because of this configuration they are absolutely insane when under boost.

David,

Would u explain further why that is?

[Fully Vetted]

I believe it is because of two things. It's ability to rev so quickly due to less rotating mass and it's ability to evacuate its exhaust so efficiently. These things are nothing but giant air pumps. If you shove air in, especially under boost, you've got to get air out at the same rate or it robs power.

I did misspeak earlier. The 5.2 is not the Coyote engine. The Coyote engine is an 11:1 compression 5.0L yielding 435HP/390 lb ft of torque. The 5.2L FPC is the Voodoo engine that comes with 12:1 compression and yields 526HP at, wait for it...7500 RPM! With a redline of 8250! IMHO, this is the modern day LT5. A bean counters be damned engine that changes the rules and flips the bird to those that want to play on a level playing field. And the only car this engine is available in is a Shelby.

Here's a great article on the Voodoo engine:

http://www.powerperformancenews.com/tech-articles/inside-fords-new-5-2l-shelby-gt350-engine/#prettyPhoto

[mgbrv8]

Here is some sound with some revs

https://www.facebook.com/holger.hovemann/videos/1012992382110799/

David Hetrick

[Fully Vetted]

Wow.

[LGAFF]

Should we start a "Show us your Crank" thread....oh, uh...maybe not

[Jagdpanzer]

Sure, here's my 4" Bryant

http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg333/pwasinger/IMG_0061_1_zpsed73fec3.jpg

[LGAFF]

Not often you can brag about having a 4 inch crank

[mgbrv8]

Now that's funny.

Dave


Not often you can brag about having a 4 inch crank

[XfireZ51]

Excellent article on the Voodoo.

[A26B]

Jerry,
Another excellent example of support for the LT5 ZR-1 brotherhood!!
How was Moldex to work with and what was their lead time to design and produce the crank?

Moldex was great to work with. Modified the damper bolt threads to a more common metric, without issue. Made to lightest possible weight, balanced to bob weight specs provided for rod/pistons used. Nitrided, same journal specs

Lead time was estimated at 12 weeks but ended up being 18 weeks between deposit & final payments.

I wouldn't hesitate doing business with them again.

[tpepmeie]

What's the bore x stroke on this engine? Anybody know?

[Jagdpanzer]

Modified the damper bolt threads to a more common metric, without issue.

Excellent improvement to the LT5 crankshaft design.
I always wondered what must have been going through their heads when they decided to go with the M16x1.0 damper bolt lash-up instead of something more practical and readily available like M16x1.5.

[ZRapid-1]

Crossplane Crankshaft
http://www.onallcylinders.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/131490-300x225.jpg

Flat Plane Crankshaft
http://www.onallcylinders.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/V8Flat-300x225.jpg

The Bottom Line

Crossplane Crankshaft Advantages: Smooth, vibration-free performance; distinctive American muscle car burble.
Crossplane Crankshaft Disadvantages: Heavier (harder to rev), requires larger crankcase.

Flat Plane Crankshaft Advantages: Lighter, more compact, more responsive (high-revving), better exhaust scavenging.
Flat Plane Crankshaft Disadvantages: Prone to vibration, lower torque levels.


Good video showing how the pistons move relative to each other:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AzrOPPZFzs
(Should have added exhaust sounds instead of music in the video.)

[5ABI VT]

Very cool!! Is the owner on here ? Wondering if he would mind me sharing those pics :) . How much power did it make ? That flywheel looks awesome !

Interesting note.. While I understand the pros/cons of the flatplane crank.. I applaud ford for their marketing scheme with the gt350. I'm a fan of different and unique and I do like the sound from the voodoo engine (I have a 15 GT with the coyote and it sounds HORRIBLE compared to my zr1s LT5). What I find interesting is Yamaha when introducing the new R1 in the early 2000s.. Actually came with a cross plane crank and they hyped that up and it's advantages on release big time.. Just like ford has done with the fpc in the gt350

[5ABI VT]

I still have the mag here's a pic.. The 'astounding' cross plane crank ;)

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb463/Emm3Speed/01%20Z28/91C75B21-F01A-431D-AB13-061EC7D86A81_zpsihhhdzro.jpg (http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/Emm3Speed/media/01%20Z28/91C75B21-F01A-431D-AB13-061EC7D86A81_zpsihhhdzro.jpg.html)

[mgbrv8]

Here is some more screaming flat plane LT5 music


https://www.facebook.com/holger.hovemann/videos/1012992382110799/

Dave

[Hog]

The cool part starts at about 1:15. Explains the difference between the flat-plane Shelby GT350 5.2 liter "Voodoo" engine with 526hp@7500rpm and 429lb/ft torque@4750rpm, 8250rpm redline, with 12.0:1 compression, and the standard GT "Coyote" engine 435hp@6500rpm/400lb/ft torque@4250rpm with 11.0:1 compression(and every other conventional cross-plane V8 engine)
The drummer really helps visualize and audiolize what's going on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbbNlkP-ZSM

On a street vehicle this amounts to a foundation for marketing hype and bragging rights.

[mgbrv8]

Extended footage. I hope the smoke is just crank case breather

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fI9vgjb5j5k&feature=share

Dave Hetrick

[Hog]

Here is some Lingenflter flat plane music in a GEN iV SBC vintage

358 cid with turbo, 9200rpm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIxngbwE8jg

Running 8.71@162mph in a 5th GEN Camaro.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-L9S_TDO9Y

[mgbrv8]

Here is a Facebook video of the LT5 flat plane cracked Opel on the track

https://www.facebook.com/100009550818995/videos/1611074899220855/

Dave

[mgbrv8]

Another Video of the LT5 powered opel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=JpMiTX_fqgs&app=desktop

Dave
editor and cheif

[SAM/CH ZR-1]

Another Video of the LT5 powered opel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=JpMiTX_fqgs&app=desktop

Dave
editor and cheif

DR.Z/LT5-Performance is proud to be a part of this successful LT5 Opel story. It support the team with parts and ideas.
The researchs and new knowledges helps to make the street LT5's more powerful.

[tpepmeie]

What's the bore x stroke on that piece of work? Fantastic bits of engineering with the crank, cams and intake manifolds/throttles.

[SAM/CH ZR-1]

What's the bore x stroke on that piece of work? Fantastic bits of engineering with the crank, cams and intake manifolds/throttles.

Stock bore and stroke

[mgbrv8]

Thats fantastic Sam thanks for sharing. And thank you for your help in furthering the LT5 performance envelope.

Dave


DR.Z/LT5-Performance is proud to be a part of this successful LT5 Opel story. It support the team with parts and ideas.
The researchs and new knowledges helps to make the street LT5's more powerful.

[mgbrv8]

I believe the bore is stock but the stroke is different?

Dave

Stock bore and stroke

[mgbrv8]

Here is the in car footage. Man that looks like fun :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGrg98-mvnE

Dave Hetrick
Editor and chief

[SAM/CH ZR-1]

I believe the bore is stock but the stroke is different.

Dave

No Dave

The engine run with a stock 93 mm stroke.

[A26B]

Sam is correct, the stroke is stock.

[mgbrv8]

Thank you for the correction

Dave

No Dave

The engine run with a stock 93 mm stroke.

[tpepmeie]

Again, Great job by all involved. Did you dyno it before installation?

I am itching to do one of these. Although slightly different dimensions. Wish one of you ZR-1 brothers would win the Mega Millions tomorrow and pony up the cash for the ultimate LT5. I've got the crankshaft sourced and the cams to go with.

[SAM/CH ZR-1]

For the next race season we plan to go with another bore x stroke configuration and increase the max. rpms up to 10'000.

[Fully Vetted]

OMG…I'm going deaf just thinking about it.


Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry (https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=90383)

[A26B]

Just received word from Norbert Vornholt, "First race done. Second place. All doing well engine is running good. 750HP at 8800 Revs/min."

"Here two videos of that weekend."

https://youtu.be/JpMiTX_fqgs
https://youtu.be/XGrg98-mvnE

[Paul Workman]

Just received word from Norbert Vornholt, "First race done. Second place. All doing well engine is running good. 750HP at 8800 Revs/min."

"Here two videos of that weekend."

https://youtu.be/JpMiTX_fqgs
https://youtu.be/XGrg98-mvnE

Ooooo! That goes right to my bones!! WOW!!

[WARP TEN]

Excellent and simple explanation that is made even more clear by the video. --Bob


Crossplane Crankshaft
http://www.onallcylinders.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/131490-300x225.jpg

Flat Plane Crankshaft
http://www.onallcylinders.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/V8Flat-300x225.jpg

The Bottom Line

Crossplane Crankshaft Advantages: Smooth, vibration-free performance; distinctive American muscle car burble.
Crossplane Crankshaft Disadvantages: Heavier (harder to rev), requires larger crankcase.

Flat Plane Crankshaft Advantages: Lighter, more compact, more responsive (high-revving), better exhaust scavenging.
Flat Plane Crankshaft Disadvantages: Prone to vibration, lower torque levels.


Good video showing how the pistons move relative to each other:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AzrOPPZFzs
(Should have added exhaust sounds instead of music in the video.)

[spork2367]

Such a cool build.

[FU]

That is some setup on the Opel. Driver is right on target.

[bdw18_123]

Ooooo! That goes right to my bones!! WOW!!

I second that, holy crap that is an aaawwwesome sound!!! I cranked my speakers up full blast for that, nothing like LT5 music... :icon_thum

[mgbrv8]

Thank you sir I'm glad you enjoyed it. If he sends me any more messages I will make sure to share.

Dave Hetrick


[I second that, holy crap that is an aaawwwesome sound!!! I cranked my speakers up full blast for that, nothing like LT5 music... :icon_thum[/QUOTE]

[SAM/CH ZR-1]

We have issues with vibrations. Hope the block won't break.

[XfireZ51]

We have issues with vibrations. Hope the block won't break.

Well that IS the issue w Flat Plane Cranks. How is Ford mitigating that in the
Voodoo motor?

[Fully Vetted]

The only thing Ford is saying is they are using a "highly tuned crankshaft damper" to control vibrations. It must be filled with feathers...

[mgbrv8]

I image it's a fluid dampener of some kind they have a larger range of dampening the rubber types.

Dave