Clutch recommendations

[efnfast]

So, I replaced my clutch, flywheel, pressure plate and throw out bearing with an aftermarket. Big mistake.
Do I go back to stock?
I've got a Fidanza, which was the start of it all.
So, I'll install the Fidanza, but what to use for pressure plate and throw out.
I liked the idea of the hydraulic release to get away from the fork and ball, but that didn't work out.

[Demps]

Don't know what's going on but here is one of my LL

Ted

http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23179&highlight=Clutch

[emmvette]

I just replaced mine last week with all OEM, why not go that route?

[XfireZ51]

If you're using the Fidanza, go w new throw out and pilot bearings. I use the Camaro LT1 sprung hub disc and stock pressure plate.

[Paul Workman]

I have the Fidanza and stock PP and the Camaro sprung hub disc (Centerforce fm Summit #381039). Love it!

Also, (it's been a while now) I installed longer (custom) bolts that were part of a kit that included the drill bit and tap, as I recall. (Maybe Dom remembers or has the info on the bolts - I (alas) have lost track of the particulars...)

If and when I need a new clutch, I'm going with the RAM dual-disc setup and be done with clutches thereafter! (I'm assuming their clutch will work with the Fidanza, but maybe not.)

[efnfast]

If you're using the Fidanza, go w new throw out and pilot bearings. I use the Camaro LT1 sprung hub disc and stock pressure plate.
Dom, why the LT1 disc? And, is the stock pressure plate still available?

[Paul Workman]

Dom, why the LT1 disc? And, is the stock pressure plate still available?

Not Dom, but the reason for the sprung hub is better quieting of the ZF gear rattle when using the single mass, aluminum FW.

My Z has the "500+" package w/ stock cams. The idle was bumped to 850 rpm to assist with noise. Basically, there is none - or at least nothing worth mentioning. (Now Ami's Z is cammed. That is a different story - but like I said...her's is also cammed.)

My Z at idle with the Fidanza/sprung hub disc/stock PP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1YFa8ruh8A

[XfireZ51]

Good article on Marc Haibeck's website.
http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20Web/products/flywheel-clutch.html
Marc believes the PP is good for 550chp. I have had good reliable experience w my setup which approaches that level of power.
With the Fidanza you'll want ARP bolts that are the correct length. I believe both Marc and Jerry's Gaskets have them.
With judicious tuning, and good trans lubricant the idle rattle is minimized at idle. There is no rattle once clutch is engaged. I just switched to Amsoil Manual Trans fluid since the Castrol is no longer available through BMW centers.
So far I have found the Amsoil to work just fine maybe even a bit better than the Castrol in controlling idle rattle with higher fluid temps. Shifting smoothness hasn't noticeably changed. I have a Hurst short throw.

[efnfast]

I have the Fidanza and stock PP and the Camaro sprung hub disc (Centerforce fm Summit #381039). Love it!

Also, (it's been a while now) I installed longer (custom) bolts that were part of a kit that included the drill bit and tap, as I recall. (Maybe Dom remembers or has the info on the bolts - I (alas) have lost track of the particulars...)

If and when I need a new clutch, I'm going with the RAM dual-disc setup and be done with clutches thereafter! (I'm assuming their clutch will work with the Fidanza, but maybe not.)
Paul, just an FYI. I'm about 4 grand (parts and labor) into the Ram stuff. Looks like it will all end up in the trash.

[Paul Workman]

Paul, just an FYI. I'm about 4 grand (parts and labor) into the Ram stuff. Looks like it will all end up in the trash.

First I've heard of any such issues. In fact, Bob Gillig (together with Pete) worked with Ram, resulting in the kit that Pete, Bob Gillig and Al Dashto are using. I don't know what FW they are using, however.

I believe Jerry"s Gaskets is carrying the kits too. So, something isn't making sense...!

[efnfast]

It all came through Jerry.

[Paul Workman]

It all came through Jerry.

Is Jerry in the loop?

[efnfast]

He was when I bought it and installed it.

[WVZR-1]

Paul, just an FYI. I'm about 4 grand (parts and labor) into the Ram stuff. Looks like it will all end up in the trash.

How many miles on this install?

I certainly believe I'd look more into the initial install. If I weren't rushed I'd maybe surrender the parts for an inspection by Ram/Jerry since you seem to "hint" product problem. I'd think you could have the pressure plate evaluated locally.

Only the Ram from Jerry or also the ***f'wheel?

I didn't look for threads about issues but just what are the issues or maybe just provide links to what you feel are "relevant" threads.

I've an NOS dual-mass that I hadn't considered a sale of but might consider.

*** Did a search and I see mentioned "NEW TO ME" for the f'wheel. Explain maybe. Used, thought to be new, known to have been serviced OR? Was it ever dimensionally confirmed? 1st time install of a push conversion for the tech?

[efnfast]

I bought a used Fidanza and had it resurfaced.
I was informed that the Ram stuff would work with the Fidanza.
I figured while doing the flywheel, better so the disc and pressure plate.
I liked the idea of the push release instead of the ball and fork.
I ordered from Jerry the PP, disc, hydraulic release and associated hardware.
During install we found the flywheel would not work with the Ram PP. Of course the mechanic doesn't just look at it and go "wrong one". Takes time and phone calls to both Ram and Jerry to figure out whats up.
I ordered a Ram flywheel.
The hydraulic release comes with 2 (I think) shims and very specific instructions on install tolerance.
The shims didn't fit on the input shaft. After many phone calls we (my mechanic) was instructed to ream them out with a die grinder so they would have a bigger I.D. and fit the shaft.
The shims provided would not get us to the correct tolerances. Ram sent more, also needed to be reamed out.
Now, we can't get their tolerance correct, 3 is not enough, 4 is too many.
Ram approves the tolerances and we move on.
Keep in mind, all of this stuff just sucks up time.
After install, and a test drive, we have a leak in the release bearing.
After tearing it all apart again, the pressure plate has rubbed a hole in the hydraulic lines.
Ram SELLS us 2 45 degree fitting to keep the lines out of harms way.
Both Jerry and Ram have been very involved to this point.
I should add we also installed a Hurst short throw. Which I love, except it vibrates and I have to keep my hand on it.
My mechanic had to fabricate a bracket to hold the lines up on the outside of the tranny because he wasn't happy with the way they were suspended. Ram should look into this.
I currently have 1809 miles on the set up.
The clutch is slipping. Although, it seems only in third gear, but that must just be my imagination, or where I push it the hardest.
Now that its done, when I first tried to get a hold of Ram, they were very hard to get a hold of. It took repeated phone calls and e-mails.
Jerry has been amazingly silent.
Ram has suggested a dual disc, even thought the single is suppose to be good for 700 hp. (I only wish over powering the clutch were the problem.).
I told Ram if it came out, it was staying out.
I'm sure there is more, but that's enough for now.

[WVZR-1]

I believe that maybe McLeod no longer offers the 1345 bearing/slave but it certainly looked interesting and it's what I thought I'd contemplate using if I really needed to. Install required some custom shimming etc. but the front input pilot retainer was used to actually bolt the bearing/slave to the ZF replacing the ring. I kept a snapshot of it installed from a CF member "mrc24x". A friend asked me about it a couple weeks ago and I didn't find any references to it any longer in the McLeod offerings but it certainly could be worth a conversation.

Lack of interest and sales may have killed it but it certainly looked like a solid option. I thought I might have had a set of instructions but I don't find it. Here though is the snapshot of it installed on a ZF.

4751

[XfireZ51]

Not a contributor to your issues Steve but "re-surfacing" a Fidanza means u just replace the face w a new one. Isn't that what u did?

[Hib Halverson]

The only aftermarket clutches I've ever used are McLeod. I have them in my 71 BB Coupe, my ZR-1, my C5 Z06, my S10 Blazer and my Camaro.

I have one in my '95 along with a McLeod aluminum flywheel. The clutch and flywheel have been there since 1997. I now have about 51,000 miles on those parts and they work just as well now as they did when I put them in back in '97. In fact, I had the car out doing some photos of it yesterday and, since I hadn't driven it in several weeks and knowing the plugs needed to be "cleaned", I took the car out on US101 and hammered it three different times on different on ramps to the rev limiter in 3rd gear. McLeod clutches are tough stuff for sure.

McLeod flywheels have a friction insert so "resufracing" means you send it back to McLeod and they drill out the rivets and install a new friction face.

I wouldn't buy a Fidanza, ever. The one and only time I tried another mfg's flywheel/clutch was a Fidanza for my C5. Both the flywheel and the clutch were out of balance and the clutch was so bad my balance shop told me to send it back. When Fidanza gave me a hard time, I sent all the stuff back and bought a McLeod flywheel/clutch set up for that car, too.

As for two-plate clutches, you really don't need them until you get past the 550-hp level.

On the McLeod hydraulic TO bearings, McLeod actually doesn't make that part. They buy them from McLeod's former owner, Red Roberts. He no long lists the ZF hyd. TO bearing. Red is a buddy of mine so I'm email him asking why he doesn't list that part any more.

I'll advise when I get an answer.

[HIZNHRZ]

I'm running a RAM clutch package with the factory dual mass fly wheel and I'm very pleased. Work was performed by Marc Haibeck.

[efnfast]

Not a contributor to your issues Steve but "re-surfacing" a Fidanza means u just replace the face w a new one. Isn't that what u did?
I sent it to the machine shop and they resurfaced. I probably should have just bought a new face for it.

[XfireZ51]

I sent it to the machine shop and they resurfaced. I probably should have just bought a new face for it.

Yeah I thought that was the whole point. Just replace the friction surface.

[efnfast]

Thought I should update this thread. Just back back from MR4 and BG. Clutch performed flawlessly, I've changed nothing.????????

[edram454]

I have the Fidanza and stock PP and the Camaro sprung hub disc (Centerforce fm Summit #381039). Love it!

Also, (it's been a while now) I installed longer (custom) bolts that were part of a kit that included the drill bit and tap, as I recall. (Maybe Dom remembers or has the info on the bolts - I (alas) have lost track of the particulars...)

If and when I need a new clutch, I'm going with the RAM dual-disc setup and be done with clutches thereafter! (I'm assuming their clutch will work with the Fidanza, but maybe not.)

Me too. works like a biatch!!

ed ramos #3028

[efnfast]

Ed, don't assume that their clutch will work with a Fidanza, it doesn't. Which, I would assume means it won't work with stock.

[BigIke]

glad to hear it started working for you brother!

[dredgeguy]

Thought I should update this thread. Just back back from MR4 and BG. Clutch performed flawlessly, I've changed nothing.????????

All the down shifts on MR4 and on the track do wonders to cure clutch issues. Maybe coasting down the mountain when you were on fumes worked as well. Sitting in Lagos now thinking of all the fun from last week.

[Paul Workman]

Ed, don't assume that their clutch will work with a Fidanza, it doesn't. Which, I would assume means it won't work with stock.

And, then there's....

I'm running a RAM clutch package with the factory dual mass fly wheel and I'm very pleased. Work was performed by Marc Haibeck.

Maybe someone can "Splain it to me Lucy!"

IF the OE pressure plate will work on the Fidanza (my case), and the RAM PP is working on an OE dual-mass FW (HIZNHRZ example), both proven applications, I'm at a loss to understand why a the RAM wouldn't work with the Fidanza when it does with the stock PP. And....NOW you say it does work - the Ram/Fidanza combo... Is that right?:confused:

I do recall there was a break-in procedure for a new disc. The surface of the PP is/was beveled in toward the center. Therefore, the new disc needed some time to conform to the shape(s) of the PP. Otherwise, there was a risk of slippage and even burning the disc and PP along the outer contacting edges of the PP/disc.

This "break-in stuff" may be grabbing at straws, not knowing the facts in your application, i.e., the RAM PP in particular. But, I thought I'd mention it because I DID do a break-in procedure immediately after installing my OE PP/Fidanza FW. (NO issues at all in over 15,000 miles and a few trips to the drag strip...FWIW!:))

Generally speaking... We have so very few manufactures that are willing to work with us to re-manufacture or develop custom parts to keep our Zs on the road. So, I'd hate to see one or their agent(s) get unjustly maligned resulting from a procedural mis-que...Just sayin. Thanks for the update, Steve!

[efnfast]

Unfortunatly I was not part of the installation procedure. The whole clutch thing started because I bought a Fidanza. Figured I'd upgrade to the RAM while in there. One thing I did discover: Speaking to Marc H, he said he always has to grind out the bushings RAM sends. I don't mean to put words in Marc's mouth, maybe not on every application. Paul, I also installed (had installed) the hydraulic throw out, maybe that's where the issue lies.
I couldn't find any instructions on breaking the clutch in, maybe it needs to slip to wear in. As soon as it started to slip, I'd back right out of it.
I didn't mean to disparige anyone, or throw anyone under the bus. I tried to stick only to the facts as I knew them. It had been a bit since it was installed before I posted, so I may have forgotten some of the story as it was relayed to me. - Steve

[SCCAForums]

For those with stock ZR1's, are there any oem equivalent clutch and pressure plates that still will work with OEM Dual Mass Flywheel?

Best Regards,
Dave

[Racinfan83]

There are a few around. But most of the people who have them are hanging on to them. Best bet would be to contact Marc Haibeck at ZR-1 Specialist and ask him if he knows where any are at...

[A26B]

For those with stock ZR1's, are there any oem equivalent clutch and pressure plates that still will work with OEM Dual Mass Flywheel?

Best Regards,
Dave

The "replacement" available today for the stock clutch is the L98 & LT1/4 version which is a shorter height pressure plate that is also 300lbf less than the stock ZR-1 unit. It will work but requires pressure plate bolts for thew L98 & LT1/4 which are shorter than the ZR-1 pressure plate bolts. (IMPORTANT if you want the clutch to work after it's installed ;))


Available @ Rock Auto & probably your local auto parts store.
Valeo PN 52802204.

http://www.rockauto.com/info/160/52802204a.jpg

[efnfast]

My car is at Pete's getting upgrades. Pete found a few little quirks with the install, but no smoking guns. So, I bought and paid for a new disc and pressure plate from Ram. Time draws close to MR5, so this was the fastest thing to do. If this one also slips, I'm screwed.
New clutch shouldn't cost as many thousands of dollars as this has.

[BigJohn]

Are you changing all clutch components?
Paying someone depending the hour rate; maybe $2500 to $3500!

[efnfast]

All the components were changed and didn't work.

[5ABI VT]

All the components were changed and didn't work.

Tough to have to read about these issues. Are you still using the fidanza with the Ram setup?

[efnfast]

That was my original plan, but the ram stuff won't work with the fidanza. So, I have a nice fidanza for sale.
I've got about 1500 miles on the new set up. No slipping, but it's grabby and has no give to it. Stock set up is much softer.

[FU]

Said this over & over...............anything under 550 RWHP the stock clutch setup is tough to beat.

[BigIke]

Which #FW did you buy?

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