Another LT5 build wohoo!!

[oricale]

So,... I had an engine that was offered to me, & I didn't initially want to take it on because I have a spare built engine already,... However you can never have too many LT5's available :rolleyes::)....anyway got home last night at around 6:30...and had to see what was inside....OMG....it was a goddam nightmare!!:eek::eek:..I have found #8 piston cup/rod.mount destroyed and a few bolts (which was the start point of the damage) pics coming; )

[Dynomite]

So,... I had an engine that was offered to me, & I didn't initially want to take it on because I have a spare build engine already,... However you can never have too many LT5's available :rolleyes::)....anyway got home last. Igh at around 6:30...and had to see what was inside....OMG....it was a goddam nightmare!!:eek::eek:..I have found #8 piston cup/rod.mount destroyed and a few bolts (which was the start point of the damage) pics coming; )

Not sure I want to see the pictures :p
I do know what you are talking about however ;)

Kind of like the Registry web site issues at the moment......frustrating.

[oricale]

Here's a few pics:

[oricale]

So after tearing the engine down to the block itself, I've came to the conclusion on the past rebuild of this engine that: #1: no gaskets are used, different types of sealant were used in place of required gaskets) #2: no thread lock was used.. ( there are various points in this engine that thread lock is mandatory, one of them being the oil pan baffle bolts(which happen to be the three bolts bouncing around in the engine cavity- lodging one of them into number 8 piston under / rod mount shattering it.. however, it is not all bad news, even though there is enough metal shavings and pieces sloshing around inside the engine-to build another engine, the liners one through seven are good, and no damage to heads or anything else, although I will have to clean up and machine the cavity of the block due to the popcorn effect of 100's of little prices of metal and aluminum bouncing around the cavity of the engine.

I just remembered I will find another little treasure trove of metal in the oil filter!!

[oricale]

I have been asked if I'm going to build this engine for myself or to sell,... At this point I'm building for myself, however if someone needs an engine..and has the money to buy it I can build and powder coated for them. Currently my plan is to build this stock - ported, powder coated a bright crinkle red with black writing. And do some other little details as well like eliminating secondaries eliminating water through the throttle body or the plenum. solid NO- weak link strong engine.

[oricale]

A few more pics:

[efnfast]

What a mess. Somebody needed Jerry's phone number.

[vilant]

I know where that came from :-D Was curious how was bad it was, and it's worse than I thought. That was a "professional" mechanic's shop that did the rebuild too, if I'm not mistaken:eek:.
That's awesome that you're going to do bring it back right. Would love to see pics of it when you're done. Hope the rest goes smoothly for you:cheers:

[WARP TEN]

I know where that came from :-D Was curious how was bad it was, and it's worse than I thought. That was a "professional" mechanic's shop that did the rebuild too, if I'm not mistaken:eek:.
That's awesome that you're going to do bring it back right. Would love to see pics of it when you're done. Hope the rest goes smoothly for you:cheers:

Oricale since you have no axe to grind with the original rebuild shop, I wonder if you planned to share your findings with whomever the owner of that shop is? Might help him if he ever gets another to rebuild, and therefore save a potential Z buyer from disaster. I do love the picture with the bolt stuck in the valve. Priceless. Just a thought--Bob..

[oricale]

When it comes to other shops...I ONLY state what I found during the tear down investigation....obvious things are clearly an issue. Small.things like thread lock in this is situation almost destroyed this engine. When I tore down Yun's engine and documented what I found. I did my normal procedure of pics and documentation and go.from.there. his build issue was a popped plug, head clearence issue and possible torque values. IMHO : follow tech data and don't bend corners...not with an LT5.. using wrong sealant. No Gaskets. Bolts in wrong locations, and lack of thread lock in required locations Can lead to major issues...

Bob. As for the findings. It was simple things that led to.major issues...some were active some didn't effect.

Sealant in place of gaskets:... aside from the obvious issues with using sealant as opposed to gaskets many of the bolts that held water sleeves and IH's or corroded due to insufficient sealing .

Incorrect bolts in locations throughout the engine, and torque specs not followed in major locations: in certain locations within the motor different bolts were put in wrong locations, while this had no bearing on the failure of the engine it is to be noted as part of the attention to detail.

Minimal use of thread lock throughout build:with the rebuild of this engine was done with only 4-5 bolts thread locked, the first thing I noticed upon dropping the pan was three bolts missing, I initially thought is just another oversight then looked inside of the cavity and saw all the damage and immediately assumed bolt head became loose. ( during tear down I found numerous bolts in the lower end of the assembly, the remaining baffle bolts were finger tight only)

Bolt in the exhaust valve, and plastic coupling in the secondary: I do not feel this was done during the rebuild I think this was done during the removal process of the engine, however the plastic coupling in the secondaries was covered in fuel and seemed as it was in place for a while there by keeping the secondaries open at all times, not a source of failure in this engine.

Major findings from this tear down,... The personnel who rebuilt his engine while a good mechanic, may not have utilize the correct technical data or torque values required to build these engines correctly, everything that has to do with standard engine building - (bearing /crank/cams ect) - seem to be inherently correct,failure to use thread lock in all of the correct locations was the biggest contributor.

(As far as telling the shop)...I'm sure if he reads this, he will see the small errors and will fix it next time, no need for me to speak to them..im.sure they are good what they do...these things happen.

[secondchance]

I have been asked if I'm going to build this engine for myself or to sell,... At this point I'm building for myself, however if someone needs an engine..and has the money to buy it I can build and powder coated for them. Currently my plan is to build this stock - ported, powder coated a bright crinkle red with black writing. And do some other little details as well like eliminating secondaries eliminating water through the throttle body or the plenum. solid NO- weak link strong engine.

Now we have spare LT5s available for rent or purchase at WAZOO land! This is a great place for ZR-1 nuts!

[Dynomite]

And do some other little details as well like eliminating secondaries eliminating water through the throttle body or the plenum. solid NO- weak link strong engine.

Keep the Secondaries (fix all vacuum leaks) and Eliminate TB Coolant which is a 30 minute job with the Injector Housings Removed (I have also Blocked TB Coolant without removing the Injector Housings but did remove the two Injector Housing Coolant Manifolds).

See this link for TB Coolant Blocking drilling and threading details Injector Housing TB Coolant Blocking (http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-10.html#post1588695506)

I have rebuilt several LT5s and have a couple as spares only because it is sooooooo much fun rebuilding the LT5s :thumbsup:

If you eliminate TB Coolant so many options and simplicities open up regarding Plenum Removal/installation and that followed by opportunities regarding Starter, Coil Refurbishing and including the Vacuum System. Such as NO sealant ever used on Plenum gasket again and a totally reusable Plenum Gasket. NO specific Torque on Plenum Bolts (just tight enough to hold a vacuum) and all this resulting in the 10 minute Plenum Removal :cheers:

Actually the LT5 becomes maintenance free in many respects which is a problem if you love working on the LT5s :D

[secondchance]

Totally agree Cliff. Phil modified the IH for me when I was chasing coolant leak into combustion chamber and it makes under plenum service so hassle free.

[oricale]

Keep the Secondaries (fix all vacuum leaks) and Eliminate TB Coolant which is a 30 minute job with the Injector Housings Removed (I have also Blocked TB Coolant without removing the Injector Housings but did remove the two Injector Housing Coolant Manifolds).

See this link for TB Coolant Blocking drilling and threading details Injector Housing TB Coolant Blocking (http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-10.html#post1588695506)

I have rebuilt several LT5s and have a couple as spares only because it is sooooooo much fun rebuilding the LT5s :thumbsup:

If you eliminate TB Coolant so many options and simplicities open up regarding Plenum Removal/installation and that followed by opportunities regarding

Starter, Coil Refurbishing and including the Vacuum System. Such as NO sealant ever used on Plenum gasket again and a totally reusable Plenum Gasket. NO specific Torque on Plenum Bolts (just tight enough to hold a vacuum) and all this resulting in the 10 minute Plenum Removal :cheers:

Actually the LT5 becomes maintenance free in many respects which is a problem if you love working on the LT5s :D


Since I did the mod on earlier on the white car..I have been wanting to do it to another one, however with the red car being rare-I left it stock, and then with the spare chrome engine I didn't want to mod it too much....if I move forward with this build I am surely doing it.:cheers:

[spork2367]

(As far as telling the shop)...I'm sure if he reads this, he will see the small errors and will fix it next time, no need for me to speak to them..im.sure they are good what they do...these things happen.

"Small errors"???:eek:

Someone probably payed decent money for that rebuild. And there is no shortage of info out there on rebuilding these.

"Good at what they do"? You're saying that based on what? That the engine didn't fall out of the car entirely? If they were good at what they did, they'd have done an ounce of research. A good mechanic looks up proper torque values when he doesn't know them. He doesn't just guess.

"These things happen"? Yeah, at a shop that does shitty cut rate work. Your choice as to whether or not you want to post up the culprits, but all the people who can't rebuild one of these themselves better pray they never end up at this shop by accident. I'd stand by your first assessment "a goddam nightmare!!:eek::eek:"

On another note, nice to see another engine being preserved.

[oricale]

"Small errors"???:eek:

Someone probably payed decent money for that rebuild. And there is no shortage of info out there on rebuilding these.

"Good at what they do"? You're saying that based on what? That the engine didn't fall out of the car entirely? If they were good at what they did, they'd have done an ounce of research. A good mechanic looks up proper torque values when he doesn't know them. He doesn't just guess.

"These things happen"? Yeah, at a shop that does shitty cut rate work. Your choice as to whether or not you want to post up the culprits, but all the people who can't rebuild one of these themselves better pray they never end up at this shop by accident. I'd stand by your first assessment "a goddam nightmare!!:eek::eek:"

On another note, nice to see another engine being preserved.

Spork :....the information I give is factual and as much as I want to eviscerate a person who claims to be a mechanic and take someone's hard earned cash to half *** build an engine that requires an attention to detail as well.as the right tech data to complete it right...I would love to!!!!....but...I do my thing the way I do it and and I try not to judge others-....I'm not there to see what happened...I state what I find..that's it. .I actually have NO idea who did this rebuild to dime them out...as far as anyone who needs an engine built...they can call Mark Heibeck. Pete, or myself. Or ask around to trusted confidants....we are a community..:)

[spork2367]

Spork :....the information I give is factual and as much as I want to eviscerate a person who claims to be a mechanic and take someone's hard earned cash to half *** build an engine that requires an attention to detail as well.as the right tech data to complete it right...I would love to!!!!....but...I do my thing the way I do it and and I try not to judge others-....I'm not there to see what happened...I state what I find..that's it. .I actually have NO idea who did this rebuild to dime them out...as far as anyone who needs an engine built...they can call Mark Heibeck. Pete, or myself. Or ask around to trusted confidants....we are a community..:)

Nothing personal, sorry if it came out that way. You made it sound like you knew the shop and were being gracious about it. I was just curious why, when the build was such a **** show. Being that you don't know who built it, it's irrelevant.

Are you keeping the good liners and pistons? Re-ring? A's or B's?

[oricale]

Nothing personal, sorry if it came out that way. You made it sound like you knew the shop and were being gracious about it. I was just curious why, when the build was such a **** show. Being that you don't know who built it, it's irrelevant.

Are you keeping the good liners and pistons? Re-ring? A's or B's?

Hello. Nope..not keeping anything. New liners. New forged pistons...reworking the crank. Then going from.there;)

[dredgeguy]

Can't wait to see the end result. Such talent in this group...

[RICKYRJ1]

Can't wait to see the end result. Such talent in this group...

Just another great reason i love my ownership of the C4 ZR-1. Great car but greater people :flag:

[rkreigh]

nice work!

can't wait to see another wazoo build. the 380s are some great new affordable tech.

I'd love to see an LT5 in a 68 vette and just happen to have one. but you KNOW if I go there is just has to be a twin turbo right??

well, I've got quite a few of the pieces I've got a 480Le and a couple of particular borg warner turbos that need to be spinning and we can hack up a 93 exh manifold with some v bands and the clearance is abundant on the old 68

looks like a small city under the hood with the tilt front end and NO pop ups. boqu room.

aes liners, some decent head studs and E85 with a megasquirt

run some nice FIC injectors (big uns of course, I'm going to use 127's in the TT Z06 iron block build)

interested????

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l292/ronkreigh/68%20vert%20vette/th_katies%20078_zpscpqnhstl.jpg (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/ronkreigh/media/68%20vert%20vette/katies%20078_zpscpqnhstl.jpg.html)

[-=Jeff=-]

There was one I saw at Bloomington Gold.. Quite sure the build was on Digital corvettes ( but it might have been and LS7 now that I think of it