Hurst Shifter Difficult 3rd

[KPW]

Hi All,

I've been enjoying my ZR-1 as much as the fair weather allows, and digging into a ton of these forum posts. Awesome.

I've found that while driving (and parked with the engine off) selecting 3rd gear can hang up a bit in the shifter. I have a Hurst that the PO installed. Has anyone had a similar issue?

Just changed the trans fluid tonight (haven't driven yet but still same engine off feeling), clutch level seems OK, and I've done the ZFDoc clutch hydraulics test (coasting down once at temp and pushing the clutch in, waiting 2 sec, and then selecting 1st and reverse), and everything seems smooth there.

I might have some time in the next few days to dig into the console and inspect the shifter from above. Anything I should keep an eye out for?

Thanks!

Kelby


UPDATE: Just drove it. Seems to hang up only sometimes. Played with it idling in the driveway a bit, seems smooth most times, then seems to bind up and not fully achieve 3rd (sometimes 2nd and 4th as well). Starting to think it's just not lining up right sometimes, maybe needs rebuilt? Tough to say as I don't know much about the mechanics of this shifter.

Overall shift quality was improved by changing the trans oil though so that's good! :)

[XfireZ51]

Hi All,

I've been enjoying my ZR-1 as much as the fair weather allows, and digging into a ton of these forum posts. Awesome.

I've found that while driving (and parked with the engine off) selecting 3rd gear can hang up a bit in the shifter. I have a Hurst that the PO installed. Has anyone had a similar issue?

Just changed the trans fluid tonight (haven't driven yet but still same engine off feeling), clutch level seems OK, and I've done the ZFDoc clutch hydraulics test (coasting down once at temp and pushing the clutch in, waiting 2 sec, and then selecting 1st and reverse), and everything seems smooth there.

I might have some time in the next few days to dig into the console and inspect the shifter from above. Anything I should keep an eye out for?

Thanks!

Kelby


UPDATE: Just drove it. Seems to hang up only sometimes. Played with it idling in the driveway a bit, seems smooth most times, then seems to bind up and not fully achieve 3rd (sometimes 2nd and 4th as well). Starting to think it's just not lining up right sometimes, maybe needs rebuilt? Tough to say as I don't know much about the mechanics of this shifter.

Overall shift quality was improved by changing the trans oil though so that's good! :)
Has the clutch fluid been changed?

[KPW]

Haven't changed the clutch fluid...what's the consensus on the easiest way for that? I have a fresh can of DOT4.

[George Maz]

Thank you for posting, same issue here.
Happens randomly shifting out of second, like it's getting hung up on something. Happened once coming out of first, made a loud "pop bang". There is no gear grinding whatsoever, and this happens during hard running & sunday driving. About a dozen occurrences in 200miles.
Hurst Shifter, aftermarket grip (that I like)
Fidanza flywheel, oem slave cylinder

I'm a confident shifter, sometimes upshifting without the clutch. Also recently relearned to not "ride the clutch" which was a bad habit I didn't realize was detrimental to internal parts.

[XfireZ51]

I have used this method from Ranger for several years with real effectiveness.


http://youtu.be/gBbsy0LjUvE

[KPW]

Flushed a whole can through the system with Ranger's method. Still a little dirty so I'll continue with that periodically to try and clean it up good.

Did some more investigation with the shifter hang up issue...seems to happen even without the clutch (engine off) which still seems to point to the shifter? Strange to me is the intermittent nature of this issue.

[RussMcB]

Just tossing out a question ...

Are you sure it's the shifter and not the trans?

Perhaps we can ask if anyone has had this issue with the stock shifter. If not, then you're probably right.

There's a rubber boot underneath the car. I suppose you could shoot some lithium grease in there, but it's a pain to work with. Therefore, I'd think it'd be easier to go in from the top to apply some new grease, and, if you're lucky, maybe recreate the issue while you're looking at the shifter workings.

Good luck.

[efnfast]

I love to hear this stuff as I'm in the throws of installing a Hurst. Been at the mechanics for a week and a half. Whole new thread when it's over.

[WVZR-1]

I've seen the 3d gear issue mentioned many times in the past and I understand that's likely very easily corrected from "under the car" with three parts and minimal time. A detent ball and two springs accessible just forward of the CAGS. ZF DR mentions it in his FAQ.

Part ID'd as 627, 628 & 629 in his "shift system group" from this link

http://www.zfdoc.com/S640Parts.htm

Could it be a shifter issue? Maybe. Likely? I've no idea.

I'm starting a new thread looking for some ZF shifter help right now.

[GOLDCYLON]

I have used this method from Ranger for several years with real effectiveness.


http://youtu.be/gBbsy0LjUvE


Awesome post up Dom thanks for sharing. I now have a weekend job

[FU]

Could it be a shifter issue? Maybe. Likely? I've no idea.


Hurst shifter issue ? I posted about my experience with the Hurst shifter and got run over. I installed the Hurst shifter AFTER hearing a much more experienced ZR1er's experience. And guess what happened ? Read OP.

Solve the issue and put in a BB short shifter.

Again , my experience and another as well. And I expect this advise to be run over as well. Hey , I have nothing to loose it's your ZF.

[WVZR-1]

OP - if this were my car just because it requires so little effort I'd remove the plug for the transmission detent, remove the springs and the ball then wash everything down with brake clean and maybe just wash out the bore some, use maybe some sewing machine oil and see if I couldn't get the shift rail maybe being just a bit more free in the case.

I really believe it's very easy to end up with a situation like you have with the shifter being installed by a novice. Fault of the shifter? Maybe. Frank's been there but I'd be inclined to think maybe installer.

[RussMcB]

What are some mistakes a novice might make?

I just installed a Hurst shifter. It wasn't "easy", but it was pretty straightforward.

My car is still on jackstands, so I haven't really tested it yet (other than going through the gears while still off the ground).

It is kinda funny - I only remember hearing good things about the Hurst shifter before I decided to get one.

[KPW]

Are you sure it's the shifter and not the trans?

I don't think I have done anything to rule out the trans. Hoping not, because in my mind the shifter is easier/cheaper to deal with.

I've seen the 3d gear issue mentioned many times in the past and I understand that's likely very easily corrected from "under the car" with three parts and minimal time. A detent ball and two springs accessible just forward of the CAGS. ZF DR mentions it in his FAQ.

I read that too. Do you know what aspect of the shift movement that detent controls? As easy as that is I'd like to have a little more confidence before I throw parts at it.

OP - if this were my car just because it requires so little effort I'd remove the plug for the transmission detent, remove the springs and the ball then wash everything down with brake clean and maybe just wash out the bore some, use maybe some sewing machine oil and see if I couldn't get the shift rail maybe being just a bit more free in the case.

I like the idea of this. When I get an opportunity to get it in the air again I'll take a swing at it.

I really believe it's very easy to end up with a situation like you have with the shifter being installed by a novice.

I'm on board with this statement...I just opened up the console to take a look at this thing. The lower boot is half gone...looks like whoever installed it took a shortcut and cut it out. Eek.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/WSdQtcjruOgq0nc0KqNotcXCViB5Rogjw6ATfJLTc8uJ8UtBk5 8zDHjr9tfsTECsl0CrNJkc2cs1nvxySSRMtDzWa1RYV1At8ntU eENj1n7tZojA-2kLOIMHcJikjwhN-7Fv45r4siB9bC-L90VIfMTpJI_CIN4Fr2Mp77rkCRxBayAi4uDvuahBBA7XugnRC oIZGbt7bS3BAfXRG_qhPm9X_ZCbbVNGHMas8X6DEpaVrPDVmMs p_fM3WwW5Bv7L7m0afjvhgoXIRjqH3lKHnCzf25rIEl9hXSDVP YN-pNlI_RRVpo00QfRLWgCjFUw5aR05a5MKrpDKOS61jxlfPAjLCK k8oQma5Xd8-bRJwrsGm1rVbs8jymaHzMmwiXma2aK-2QAASJ58_IVwD11eMPku6nlRW37DgVRN8KDhIrv3YCQMWhJy4X yuyekp0uWVEFBAV17n4xMBL3xE_8Kb3QrqWh4eTjnzXGNcZ5lS U3apR7Hioo-lF095xDHtLjL7_C8yLxBht-vSMSFF1MrwhUg=w640-h360-no

I played around with the shifter some more, but I can't seem to recreate the hang-up with any consistency. It seems to happen when it wants to. However, I have found that I can typically fix it by pulling back into 4th and then when I go forward to 3rd it will fully engage. Does that indicate an alignment issue?

I'm beginning to think that I may want to have a qualified installer either re-install this shifter or change out to another. Wipe the slate clean and just get it right. I'm willing to try cleaning the detente, but the missing lower boot seems problematic at best...any suggestions in SE Michigan?

[Z51JEFF]

My 91 with 7000 miles would hang up when bangin 3rd gear hard. Anymore in this situation when bangin 3rd I pay attention to make it instead of grindin off a few pounds. This is a stock shifter and trans.

[Paul Workman]

Just tossing out a question ...

Are you sure it's the shifter and not the trans?

Perhaps we can ask if anyone has had this issue with the stock shifter. If not, then you're probably right.

There's a rubber boot underneath the car. I suppose you could shoot some lithium grease in there, but it's a pain to work with. Therefore, I'd think it'd be easier to go in from the top to apply some new grease, and, if you're lucky, maybe recreate the issue while you're looking at the shifter workings.

Good luck.

Reading with great interest, as I'm contemplating a Hurst shifter in the near future.

I can say that with the engine off and running through the gears with my stock shifter, it will often randomly refuse to go into a gear - not always the same one tho. That isn't unusual, considering how synchros work and depend on movement to align the splines.

While driving/racing, it hasn't been a problem, except occasionally for 5th gear - a synchro(?), I suspect. But, in comparison, I've not had any issues at all with shifting Ami's 91 Z; at least while driving (never tired it with the engine OFF).

However, after seeing that video, I may step up my clutch maintenance some...but I doubt it will be with every gasoline fill-up per the video. (That seems a little "OC" to me.)

[WARP TEN]

Reading with great interest, as I'm contemplating a Hurst shifter in the near future.

I can say that with the engine off and running through the gears with my stock shifter, it will often randomly refuse to go into a gear - not always the same one tho. That isn't unusual, considering how synchros work and depend on movement to align the splines.

While driving/racing, it hasn't been a problem, except occasionally for 5th gear - a synchro(?), I suspect. But, in comparison, I've not had any issues at all with shifting Ami's 91 Z; at least while driving (never tired it with the engine OFF).

However, after seeing that video, I may step up my clutch maintenance some...but I doubt it will be with every gasoline fill-up per the video. (That seems a little "OC" to me.)

Hi Paul--For comparison, you can also try mine when we are at Marc's on the 20th. --Bob

[Gunny]

Paul ... you can also try mine on the 20th ... I'm plan to be at Marc's BBQ too.

[5ABI VT]

I have no issues with any gear with my Hurst in my 94. I have tons of videos on my youtube page going through the gears at the limiter including racing a mustang cobra just the other night and hitting 3rd. smooth as silk I can probably shift into gear with my pinky if I had to. I have a fully stage 2 rebuilt t-56 in my ctsv and its a pile of turd compared to the zf. Every time I drive this car.. this shifter and trans simply amaze me at how smooth it is. :) I would reccomend reverse bleeding the hydraulic system or at least trying to change the fluid and doing a bench bleed etc on the slave.

[KPW]

Thanks everyone for chiming in with their experiences and suggestions. As a newbie I'm learning a lot here.

I've driven the Z quite a bit in the last week, culminating with a long drive over the Labor Day weekend. Shifting seems much improved. Here's where I'm at:

-The trans oil now has had an abundance of time to work it's way through everything.
-I'm being very mindful of taking my time on shifting into 3rd, seems to alleviate any difficulties there, regardless of RPM.
-Took out the aftermarket floor mat on the driver side. Looks like the mat may have been interfering a little...maybe not that big of a deal in most cases, but more so if the clutch hydraulics are at all degraded, which brings me to my next point.
-As many of you have suggested, my clutch hydraulics probably need some refreshment. Once I flushed my hydraulics with new fluid, shifting improved considerably. I think we have a winner here. It would be prudent to pick a new master and slave soon, but I'll keep the ones on the car as clean as I can in the meantime.

I was quick to blame the shifter for my issues here, but upon further discussion and investigation it seems like it's not entirely at fault. Based on the installation of my Hurst, it's possible that it's not perfect, but it seems to work well when all of the other components involved are brought up to speed.

[Z51JEFF]

You mentioned the floor mat. Years ago I bought an 80s Coupe DeVille. Right from the beginning I couldn't believe how gutless the thing was,all 135 HP. Went to clean up the car one day and found the floor mat bunched up behind gas pedal.