F-Body wheel bearing installed

[Karl]

I needed new front wheel bearing and after looking around the F-Body wheel bearings part no: SKF BR930186 is suppose to be one of the better options for a tough front wheel bearing that is better than factory.

Installation on both sides took me about 1 hour. Only difference is you insert the bolts from the rear and nuts in the front due to the threads on the bearings. Either that or tap them out.

Hope this helps with a option for the C4 ZR-1.

Edit, this bearing will work for 1991 - 1996 Corvette only.

Before:

http://s5.postimg.org/ps0bulx03/20150328_174317.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/ps0bulx03/)

After

http://s5.postimg.org/4jmnd6ij7/20150328_180021.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/4jmnd6ij7/)

Time to get that alignment, put some miles on the Z, and have some fun!

[Paul Workman]

Good to know, Karl!!!:cheers:

Is this a GM part#, or did you get it somewhere else??

[WVZR-1]

I mentioned to Karl that if it were me that I'd certainly consider the F-body for a '91+ car. The confirmation was done years ago and I guess the monetary savings would depend upon the brand, warranty and vendor for the bearing. It's good to see that it worked well for Karl and his install times are what I would consider reasonable. Once done of course the next pair would be somewhat less time consuming.

The bearing used for the install is a '93 - '02 F-body and the "branding" is "your choice"!

I believe that if a person had a '90 or earlier car which had an ABS defeat or the ABS was just broken that the bearing could be used also. I haven't had a pair of them "side-by-side" to check but I likely will. I'm not interested in the use for the '86 - '90 with ABS, but rather it would be maybe a less expensive/easier to procure bearing that could be used for the '84 & '85 cars that don't have ABS.

A friend has an '84 and he'll likely do and confirm the install. I'll pass on what I determine after I have one of each in a "side-by-side".

[Paul Workman]

I mentioned to Karl that if it were me that I'd certainly consider the F-body for a '91+ car. The confirmation was done years ago and I guess the monetary savings would depend upon the brand, warranty and vendor for the bearing. It's good to see that it worked well for Karl and his install times are what I would consider reasonable. Once done of course the next pair would be somewhat less time consuming.

The bearing used for the install is a '93 - '02 F-body and the "branding" is "your choice"!

I believe that if a person had a '90 or earlier car which had an ABS defeat or the ABS was just broken that the bearing could be used also. I haven't had a pair of them "side-by-side" to check but I likely will. I'm not interested in the use for the '86 - '90 with ABS, but rather it would be maybe a less expensive/easier to procure bearing that could be used for the '84 & '85 cars that don't have ABS.

A friend has an '84 and he'll likely do and confirm the install. I'll pass on what I determine after I have one of each in a "side-by-side".

Thanks, once again for delving into that marvelous database/memory banks of yours! I've got both a 90 and a 91 Z. Looking forward to any updates you run across for the 90s (as MOST of us ZR-1'ers are.:dancing:cheers:

[mike100]

skip to post #11
http://www.thevettebarn.com/forums/c4-open-discussion/37950-help-me-choose-c5-rotor-warning-actual-corvette-topic.html

[Paul Workman]

Read a couple posts mentioning the SKF930186 F-body fits the 91-96. The 90 has no traction control or slip recovery, but will these parts fit a 90, is the question??

Soon as I know (or someone else chimes in), I'll post it.:cheers:

[mike100]

Read a couple posts mentioning the SKF930186 F-body fits the 91-96. The 90 has no traction control or slip recovery, but will these parts fit a 90, is the question??

Soon as I know (or someone else chimes in), I'll post it.:cheers:

There was definitely some question on what the model year break point was when I was researching the F-body cross reference. The toothed encoder is still needed for ABS so that part should be relevant and functional. As far as the wheels and hubs are concerned, ASR is strictly software and actuators to the throttle, rear brake actuation, and a routine to retard timing. They still need the wheel speed input same as ABS. 91's don't have ASR either and these hubs worked on mine. If there is no difference between the rear hub housing and the front spindles on 90 vs. 91 ZR-1's then it should work out ok. If the 90 has a different ABS tooth count or something odd, I would have read about it by now I'm sure- I mean we know they had a 1 year only airbag setup, but not sure that the chassis hard components or ABS was different.

Buyer beware until somebody tries it I guess. I know some of you guys have both years in your collection, maybe one of them could try it out and just keep the spare parts just in case the 90 is an oddball fit.

[WVZR-1]

Buyer beware until somebody tries it I guess. I know some of you guys have both years in your collection, maybe one of them could try it out and just keep the spare parts just in case the 90 is an oddball fit.

I only mentioned the possibilities IF the ABS were "defeated" because I had no experience. I don't know exactly what the economical advantage might be but before this could be done on '90 or earlier cars the back-side of the knuckle/spindle would need a bore of substantial diameter to allow the F-body OR for that matter the potential use of the later Corvette bearing for the fronts.

If the ABS is active and working I see no real advantage to even considering the use of the F-body assemblies for the '90. The F-body I thought would be of particular interest to maybe the '84 - '85 owners maybe.

No auto parts store near me had both the assemblies involved on the shelf for comparison "first-hand". I could likely determine the requirement if I knew the dimension from the back of the mounting flange(to knuckle/spindle) to the tip of the ABS reluctor wheel of the '90.

This link takes you directly to the back-side view of a '90 and earlier assembly. That's the dimension that interests me.

http://www.carid.com/timken/wheel-bearing-and-hub-assembly-front-mpn-513019.html?gclid=CMbV1aCu0MQCFUoV7Aodbn4Anw

[mike100]

...
If the ABS is active and working I see no real advantage to even considering the use of the F-body assemblies for the '90. ...

http://www.carid.com/timken/wheel-bearing-and-hub-assembly-front-mpn-513019.html?gclid=CMbV1aCu0MQCFUoV7Aodbn4Anw

The F-Body bearing assemblies are all from 4th gen cars with ABS. Unless the 90 is somehow special mechanically and not the same as the 91, I'm thinking these might work. The concern is also if the code wheel has the same number of teeth and the same style of electrical connector etc. The picture in the link above shows an exposed code wheel and the camaro hubs/ later C4 hubs have a plastic cover and electrical plug.

The only difference on the 91-96 vette vs f-body hub bearing is the threaded hole vs. non-threaded. And 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of course.

[mike100]

So does anybody know why they say you can't do the later parts on 90 and below C4's? I'm of the thought that there is a very specific reason or people wouldn't be listing them as for use on 91-up.

[-=Jeff=-]

I do know the ABS Module (Brain) is the same form 90-91..

EDIT..

totally different:
91-96:
http://www.rockauto.com/info/118/513085-A.jpg

90:
http://www.rockauto.com/info/118/513019-A.jpg

[WVZR-1]

So does anybody know why they say you can't do the later parts on 90 and below C4's? I'm of the thought that there is a very specific reason or people wouldn't be listing them as for use on 91-up.

The WSS is different, the '90 has a WSS inserted through a bore in the spindle/knuckle that uses an air gap to the reluctor exactly like the rears on all C4's with ABS. I "know" that a minimum requirement would be a 2 1/4" diameter bore through the back-side of the knuckle/spindle to allow the accommodation of the hub/bearing for the later. I believe that for a '90 you just "pay-up" and get the right stuff.

There is likely one possible exception. If the WSS is frozen in the spindle/knuckle and can't be removed with out destroying it, it's already demolished then a person might consider the attempt both economical and a repair to keep the system functional.

I mentioned not being able to have both the earlier and the later side-by-side but I'm working on that. I'm not going to purchase something I don't need to satisfy my curiosity. Do I know it CAN'T? NO -- Might it? MAYBE.

Could the required 2 1/4" bore be done "on the car" using a metal cutting hole saw? It would eliminate the possibility of ruining the ball joint boots to remove the spindle/knuckle for a machining operation. No one's even considered it previously that I'm aware of. I mentioned earlier that I thought it maybe a valid thought for '84 - '85 owners that share the hub/bearing application but don't need the functionality.

This is a '90 and earlier spindle/knuckle and it would need a 2 1/4" bore in the back of the knuckle for starters:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1988-1990-C4-Front-Steering-Knuckle-Spindle-RH-Passenger-USED-Corvette-/121499953126

You can choose various images in that eBay to see how the WSS is done in the knuckle/spindle if you don't understand the differences.

[-=Jeff=-]

WV.. I added pictures to my reply to show differences..

I think you could use the 91 on a 90 with a harness mod to to the front as I know the ABS ECM is the same for both years

[WVZR-1]

WV.. I added pictures to my reply to show differences..

I think you could use the 91 on a 90 with a harness mod to to the front as I know the ABS ECM is the same for both years

Jeff - I knew and understood every bit of that. I questioned only the - is it actually economical, is the modification required to the knuckle/spindle a likely modification that can be accomplished easily and again economically. I believe maybe NOT.

This is a '91+ spindle/knuckle and you can see the minimum modification required (2 1/4") bore in earlier spindle/knuckle.

4181

[mike100]

! light bulb going off over my head- I get it now...totally different mechanical setup. I was quite sure the ABS functionality was the same. Never had a c4 older than this so had no idea.

[-=Jeff=-]

WV,

All is good, i have to wonder if you could (worst case) get a 91 Knuckle and swap everything, then you just need to connection for the newer wheel bearing.. Since the ABS ECM is the same, theoretically it should work.. but as you mention, the cost benefit may no longer be there

[WVZR-1]

WV,

All is good, i have to wonder if you could (worst case) get a 91 Knuckle and swap everything, then you just need to connection for the newer wheel bearing.. Since the ABS ECM is the same, theoretically it should work.. but as you mention, the cost benefit may no longer be there

That should likely do with just a change of the ABS connector or a quality cut/splice. My original interest in this possibility was actually for a fellow in "The Down Under" (AU) that has an '85 of course with no ABS and he needs to import what ever it is he buys. I thought/think if the F-body was available there(requiring a no ship) then the modification required to the spindle/knuckle would certainly be a more reasonable approach than the import of the correct stuff. The use for the '86 - '90 ABS was an after thought of that.

I'll gather the parts required to compare but at my leisure. I don't need and don't want to impose on a parts house to special order a hub/bearing just to look at. I've no idea why my snapshot ended up as it is but I see that it should work. What did I maybe do wrong?

! light bulb going off over my head- I get it now...totally different mechanical setup. I was quite sure the ABS functionality was the same. Never had a c4 older than this so had no idea.



I maybe assumed that you hadn't had a hands-on of an earlier assembly and that's why I did the eBay link so you could see everything that's different and the snapshot of the '91+ I thought would confirm for you the difference.

[Billy Mild]

What is the best way to test wheel bearings? I think this might be one of my noises I hear on acceleration.

I shook the wheel both front and rear on the passenger side of the car and had a little play. I held the wheel at 12 and 6 positions. It moved a little bit.

Car has 70,000 miles. I would think wheel bearings would last longer than that, but who knows.

[Karl]

Lift the car and grab the wheel at opposite ends and look for play or a slight wobble back and fourth.

My car has 68,xxx miles.

[lbszr]

I've been running the F-body on my 90. ABS sensors removed. As mentioned, there would need to be a mod to the spindle for it to fit with the sensor on the bearing. I remove the sensor from the f-body bearing and have gotten the most life out of the bearings by filling the spindle cavity half up with 90 weight oil and giving the bearings a bath of oil. They seem to last significantly longer on the track with the oil, so the late model on the 90 has worked out good in this case.

[Billy Mild]

Any ideas on rear wheel bearings? Appears advance auto parts doesn't carry them.

[lbszr]

Any ideas on rear wheel bearings? Appears advance auto parts doesn't carry them.

Rock Auto has SKF, National and AC Delco. I had good luck with National, but I'm not sure they were the same as the ones from Rock Auto.

[Billy Mild]

I recently have had a noise sometimes on acceleration usually at lower speeds, but seems to be consistent with speed more so then RPM. Also at a very high rate of speed say 80+ MPH I noticed the car has a horrible vibration that is felt through the chassis.

Usually wheel bearings make a rumbling noise, but on my car it hasn't been that. Almost sounds like something is rubbing occasional metal to metal type contact, but it isn't consistently there.

Is it possible I need all 4 wheel bearings?

[WVZR-1]

I've been running the F-body on my 90. ABS sensors removed. As mentioned, there would need to be a mod to the spindle for it to fit with the sensor on the bearing. I remove the sensor from the f-body bearing and have gotten the most life out of the bearings by filling the spindle cavity half up with 90 weight oil and giving the bearings a bath of oil. They seem to last significantly longer on the track with the oil, so the late model on the 90 has worked out good in this case.

That's pretty damned clever. did you fashion a threaded plug for the WSS bore so it could be filled OR ... ? I'm glad you came along. This done on an early '84/'85 with no ABS should be a piece of cake then. I never thought about the dissection of the F-body assembly. I just assumed it would demolish the effectiveness of the assembly procedure, a friend had asked me years ago about knocking off the sensor.

[lbszr]

That's pretty damned clever. did you fashion a threaded plug for the WSS bore so it could be filled OR ... ? I'm glad you came along. This done on an early '84/'85 with no ABS should be a piece of cake then. I never thought about the dissection of the F-body assembly. I just assumed it would demolish the effectiveness of the assembly procedure, a friend had asked me years ago about knocking off the sensor.

A rubber plug with a suspension shim holding it in, using the same bolt that held the sensor, if that makes sense. Does the 85 have the big o-ring seal like the 90 spindle. Because with the bearing sensor removed, dirt might get in if not sealed to the spindle?

[WVZR-1]

A rubber plug with a suspension shim holding it in, using the same bolt that held the sensor, if that makes sense. Does the 85 have the big o-ring seal like the 90 spindle. Because with the bearing sensor removed, dirt might get in if not sealed to the spindle?

The shim/seal/bolt makes sense. I understand that.. again pretty damned simple. I like a threaded plug I'd think just in case someone took a peak. I had a friend that didn't always "win the race" but he always won "the best engineered/assembled". He'd go nuts if I showed him the shim/plug arrangement. LOL

Yes it does use the o-ring. I thought that when assembling the hub/bearing to the spindle/knuckle you would use GMS/RTV to create a seal also. For the '84 - '85 as I mentioned I guess maybe the bore/tap and use a threaded plug might be in order. It seems that would simplify the assembly. I'm sure glad you wandered by this evening.

[lbszr]

The shim/seal/bolt makes sense. I understand that.. again pretty damned simple. I like a threaded plug I'd think just in case someone took a peak. I had a friend that didn't always "win the race" but he always won "the best engineered/assembled". He'd go nuts if I showed him the shim/plug arrangement. LOL

Yes it does use the o-ring. I thought that when assembling the hub/bearing to the spindle/knuckle you would use GMS/RTV to create a seal also. For the '84 - '85 as I mentioned I guess maybe the bore/tap and use a threaded plug might be in order. It seems that would simplify the assembly. I'm sure glad you wandered by this evening.

I know what you mean, but mine has a brake cooling duct running over the sensor area, so nobody can see it, not even when the wheel is off (but now everybody knows!!) I also have plans to stop tracking it and put the sensors back in, so I didn't want to modify the spindle.

[Karl]

And on a side note I plan on cleaning and detailing my z.

My suspension is embarrassingly dirty!

[batchman]

In my experience most hubs are now coming from the same factory in China. I have been amused at the number of marking discrepancies, and while running 2 C4's on slicks I must have gone through 40 hubs, of all brands except Moog (next!).

I don't believe there is any difference between F- and Y-body hubs other than the flange threads, and maybe the price.

I have heard wheel bearings make a surprising range of noises. First off, some amount of play is normal, I forget the limit value in the FSM for play but it is not zero. Pick wheel off ground and put some ooomph at 3/9 o'clock and again at 12/6. If you get the same play at both, it's the hub. If you have a noise you suspect is a hub, it'll change with speed and with side loading, in other words if you have the noise going straight and/or turning only one direction, it's a hub. An infrared pyrometer will also tell you about your hubs, or a back-of-the hand check (careful what you touch).

I actually started to back-date my hubs to the earlier style as they're a lot cheaper without the integral sensor. Haven't done it yet, but it's a spindle and harness (or just connector) change. I'd love to try the oil bath scheme (great idea!) but I really need my ABS - tried an event without it once. Wow. I really thought I never triggered it but turns out I do, at just about every big brake zone.

Later,
- Jeff

[lbszr]

Who has tried this bearing? Not sure if it is available. http://hoosierpe.com/tech-info/4th-gen-f-body-and-c4-corvette-front-wheel-hub-assembly/

[batchman]

Y'know those would almost pay off in my Hoosier-shod Z. Problem is they'd be outside my class rules, "OE or parts store equivalent only". Of course I'd only get challenged if I were nationally competitive, which I'm not.

But then this year they've started an allowance in stock class for "common fixes not in the shop manual/parts store" realm I believe this is to allow the common BMW 3-series rear subframe fixes, Porsche IMS bearings etc. I think if I squint just right I might be able to see this rule being inherited into my class, making those hubs legal, sort of...

- Jeff

[RussMcB]

It looks like a nice piece. I'd consider it if I autocrossed regularly, or often took my car to the race track (road racing, not drag strip).

It's overkill for a street car, though, right?

[batchman]

Overkill, probably almost always unless you're having persistent problems and sick of such.

I've not had a problem on the street, and in fact had many fewer problems on the 88 autox car as it did get significant street miles. The Z is trailered, no plate, so no way to "break in" hubs. They seem to do better if they at least get a few K per year.

Until you try Hoosiers anyway!
- Jeff