Changing oil...Let it drain overnight ?

[Vette73]

I like to do basic stuff when it comes to my autos,brakes,tune ups,front end..

I'm going to change the oil on my 91 that I just got ...
I read in Corvette forums to let it drain overnight?

I know there is an oil cooler,if this is correct is that the reason?

Thank you....

[mike100]

The main reason for me personally is so that the oil filter doesn't blop out a bunch of oil on the front corner of the engine. The oil cooler won't drain since it is lower than the feed lines.

also define drain... I let it sit for a few hours before I pull the drain plug (and as mentioned, filter), but once that is done it is a 10 minute drain job. You will read about draining oil on a warm engine- I also feel you get a more complete draining, but really, just changing the oil without making a mess is all you need to do. If the oil is super bad, then you might consider running a cheap 10w-30 through it for 10 miles to flush, then come home, drain it and refill with the good stuff. If you have been keeping up with the maintenance regularly, then a simple 8-9 qt change is all you need- the oil cooler oil won't be that dirty anyhow if you change the oil like you are supposed to.

[XfireZ51]

I usually start the motor if its cold and warm up the oil but not hot. Then I'll use a floor jack to raise the passenger side of the car slightly. Remove the oil filler cap and undo the drain bolt. Let it sit overnight. I will also pour about
3/4L of oil into new filter before installing.

[Fully Vetted]

The main reason for me personally is so that the oil filter doesn't blop out a bunch of oil on the front corner of the engine...

Doesn't the check valve in the filter prevent that from happening? Since I've had my car the oil change has always coincided with some kind of work being done so Corey has changed my oil both times.

...I will also pour about
3/4L of oil into new filter before installing...

That's always been a practice of mine as well.

[Kevin]

I let it drain till the flow coming out is a just a drop or two, hour or so wait, and I get ~10 quarts out

[Dynomite]

The main reason for me personally is so that the oil filter doesn't blop out a bunch of oil on the front corner of the engine. The oil cooler won't drain since it is lower than the feed lines.

also define drain... I let it sit for a few hours before I pull the drain plug (and as mentioned, filter), but once that is done it is a 10 minute drain job. You will read about draining oil on a warm engine- I also feel you get a more complete draining, but really, just changing the oil without making a mess is all you need to do. If the oil is super bad, then you might consider running a cheap 10w-30 through it for 10 miles to flush, then come home, drain it and refill with the good stuff. If you have been keeping up with the maintenance regularly, then a simple 8-9 qt change is all you need- the oil cooler oil won't be that dirty anyhow if you change the oil like you are supposed to.

Concur :thumbsup:

Let the engine sit over night so you can remove the oil filter without a mess as Mike suggests. Yes...some oil filters have a check valve of sorts but on Mobile 1 M1-207s the filter can be removed without any oil mess after sitting over night.

The LT5 engine and oil cooler will hold about 12 quarts of oil of which you drain about 8-9 quarts on an oil change.
So you get about 70 % of the old oil changed on an oil change. Next time you will get 70% of that 30% old old oil (9% of old old oil remaing), and on the third change you will get 70% of the 9% old old old oil remaining with 3% of old old old oil remaining. And so it goes :D

The oil pick up screen in the LT5 Oil Pan sits about 1/4 inch from the bottom of the pan (has nothing to do with changing oil :p). When you drain oil (depending on how the ZR1 is sitting) you will have about 1/4 inch of oil in the bottom of the oil pan that does not drain.

On a ZR1 just purchased I will change oil twice within a week or so of each change to get down to the 9% of original "unknown" oil remaining.

LT5/ZR-1 Fluids (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp.html#post1580070550)

[A26B]

I usually start the motor if its cold and warm up the oil but not hot. Then I'll use a floor jack to raise the passenger side of the car slightly. Remove the oil filler cap and undo the drain bolt. Let it sit overnight. I will also pour about
3/4L of oil into new filter before installing.

This is my preferred method as well. While I do fill my conventional filters with oil, I have never done that with the LT5 upside down filter. Probably because I was leery about then flipping it upside down for the install & having a mess to cleanup.

Maybe lazy, but may also be because I looked into at least a dozen LT5's that had been stored by GM for at least 10 yrs. They were unceremoniously removed from the car and dropped into a crate or box, with whatever coolant didn't run out and oil still in the pan. I put an engine on a stand, drained the oil, turned it over & pulled the pan to remove rod caps for bearing/crank inspection. I was amazed to see that the bearings &crank had lots of oil on them after all those years.

Honestly, I have no concern about engine damage from starting with an empty filter. Synthetic oils are so much better than their fossil counterpart.

Please don't interpret this as disagreeing with filter pre-fill. You can't go wrong pre-filling the filter.

[mike100]

Doesn't the check valve in the filter prevent that from happening? Since I've had my car the oil change has always coincided with some kind of work being done so Corey has changed my oil both times.


The rubber drain-back valve is only one side of the filter media. The big threaded hole in the center is wide open and whatever is seeping out of filter paper seems to back up on the filter pad if you try to pull it off right after you park it.

[Myt415]

Just let me know if you want Amsoil. I am a dealer/distributor and am able to help with all your lubrication needs.

[Paul Workman]

When the car has been driven before being shut off, say the day before, the oil will have drained back into the pan, as much as it will by the next morning.

So, lifting the front end enough to reach the plug and get a catch-pan under it, is about the best we can hope for. And, considering there is going to be at least a quart in the cooler anyway, there's no need to wait hours for the last drop to fall out - when the dripping slows to several seconds between drips - put the dang plug in and take it off the jack stands.

I pre-fill the filter, and with a little practice one can flip it over and place it onto the threaded post - in one quick motion, and usually not spill a drop. But, if you do, that's why God made rags!:)

I use the AMO 10W-40: buy it by the case from Marc Haibeck (fellow FBI member)

[Dynomite]

I pre-fill the filter, and with a little practice one can flip it over and place it onto the threaded post - in one quick motion, and usually not spill a drop. But, if you do, that's why God made rags!:)


Pre fill the Filter ??....I am not so sure why given all the potential mess involved......;)
http://legacyadvisors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Quiz-thumbnail.jpg

I have found that Camshaft bearings and rod bearings maintain oil for a very long time with engine not running (like years).
The Lifters also maintain oil on their surfaces for a very long time as do the Cams.

Likewise the Chain Guides maintain oil for a very long time. The Chain tensioners will bleed back oil but it has been said that Start Up Loose Chain guide slap is just a noise and no harm and no foul mechanically. Having said all that......pre-filling the filter definitely does not hurt the engine in any way :p

[Paul Workman]

Pre fill the Filter ??....I am not so sure why given all the potential mess involved......;)
http://legacyadvisors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Quiz-thumbnail.jpg

I have found that Camshaft bearings and rod bearings maintain oil for a very long time with engine not running (like years).
The Lifters also maintain oil on their surfaces for a very long time as do the Cams.

Likewise the Chain Guides maintain oil for a very long time. The Chain tensioners will bleed back oil but it has been said that Start Up Loose Chain guide slap is just a noise and no harm and no foul mechanically. Having said all that......pre-filling the filter definitely does not hurt the engine in any way :p

But - but - but...Thar ain't no PRESSURE on that residual oil, doanchaknow! Not filling the filter means it takes longer before the pressure comes up, an deez dern 1990s rev to 1800+ on fire-up and hold for a couple seconds before idle slows down to settling. The sooner I see pressure, the better, at least that's how I feel.:mrgreen:

[Dynomite]

But - but - but...Thar ain't no PRESSURE on that residual oil, doanchaknow! Not filling the filter means it takes longer before the pressure comes up, an deez dern 1990s rev to 1800+ on fire-up and hold for a couple seconds before idle slows down to settling. The sooner I see pressure, the better, at least that's how I feel.:mrgreen:

Yep.....you are correct on those start up revs for sure......and concur on seeing the oil pressure build up as quick as I can.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS5-pJ1Qmv_x1HGf4ratjiVQSzoZdssSxmy24V6eJmKQoSwfioI

:D

[RussMcB]

So, do some filters let you pre-fill with oil, turn them upside down and the oil doesn't pour out (all the time while you're spinning it in place)?

Yesterday I bought a Napa Wix 1324 filter and will be changing my oil this week. It's hard to imagine not making a mess.

I've always prefilled oil filters in the past, but I've never had a car with the OF on top of the engine upside down.

[Roadster]

The best way to install a pre oil filled filter for the LT5 is to turn the car upside down, that way you won't spill a drop....I'll just leave it at that.....:eek:

[mike100]

I could see just pouring enough oil into a new filter to saturate the filter media which might facilitate a quicker flow-thru when the flow of oil fills the empty filter can on start up. You could reasonably expect to be able to flip it and screw it on quick enough to not make a mess.

Plus if do it fast it will be a centrifuge of sorts and won't blurp out the threaded hole. Don't slip!

[secondchance]

I could see just pouring enough oil into a new filter to saturate the filter media which might facilitate a quicker flow-thru when the flow of oil fills the empty filter can on start up. You could reasonably expect to be able to flip it and screw it on quick enough to not make a mess.

Plus if do it fast it will be a centrifuge of sorts and won't blurp out the threaded hole. Don't slip!

Maybe there is a worthwhile market for LT5 oil change bib - you know, like the bibs they hand out when you go to eat crabs - anti-blurp bibs?!

[Dynomite]

You guys. :D :D :D

[Fully Vetted]

I could see just pouring enough oil into a new filter to saturate the filter media which might facilitate a quicker flow-thru when the flow of oil fills the empty filter can on start up. You could reasonably expect to be able to flip it and screw it on quick enough to not make a mess.

Plus if do it fast it will be a centrifuge of sorts and won't blurp out the threaded hole. Don't slip!

That's all I do. I fill it about halfway up and set it to the side. Within minutes the filter media soaks most of it up.

[XfireZ51]

That's all I do. I fill it about halfway up and set it to the side. Within minutes the filter media soaks most of it up.

That's what happens. Flip it over fast enough and you won't spill any oil. You can just spin it on quick enough.

[Paul Workman]

Well, it takes a couple minutes - filling, waiting for the oil to pass through the filter to the fill the outer side of the filter media, then keep adding a little at a time until it is practically full.

Then, I hold the filter close to the threaded center 'post'. In one clean motion I turn it over and plant it on the threaded post and spin it on. Because of the rubber diaphragm (ZR-1 filters), oil doesn't come out of the periphery holes.

Y'all do whatcha want, but with minimal effort it is really not messy at all; save for maybe a few drops. (I figure if Lotus specified filters with the diaphragm valve in them as to minimize the wear until oil pressure builds up, then pre-filling the filter has to be a good thing.)

YMMV...

[Dynomite]

After you have filled that oil filter before installing and after you have practiced and accomplished the "one clean motion planting" to perfection you get your oil filter installed :D

Then you fire the LT5 up and get oil pressure a bit faster (if you fire the LT5 up within minutes of installing the oil filter). Then you let the LT5 sit overnight and you are exactly where I am the next morning after I install a dry filter or you may be just a tad ahead because your filter medium is wet (not a full oil filter).

So.....rather than have us practice the "one clean motion planting" why don't you just fill your oil filter the night before and then after a few minutes tip it over in a clean oil pan letting it drain exactly like I do by leaving it on the engine until the next morning. You can then pour that drained clean oil back into the empty oil quart. Then the next morning you remove your old oil filter and install your filter medium wet but drained oil filter which is exactly like the old oil filter you remove. NO MESS

If you really want to get a discussion......why not every morning before you fire up your LT5, remove the drained oil filter and fill it up with oil and then with the "one clean motion planting" install that oil filter (filled with oil) before you fire the LT5 up within minutes later. You could really get carried away and do that "trick" every time you turn the engine off for 30 minutes or more. I have never heard of anyone doing that (at least admitting they do that) on an LT5 before :sign10:

Every engine drains back oil but every engine maintains plenty of undrained oil in the Main Bearings and Rod Bearings as well as the Camshaft Bearings to not have metal to metal contact within several seconds (even longer) of no oil pressure. The LT5 would be at say 5 seconds without oil pressure as the Oil Filter gets its supply of oil that drained back.

The Oil then runs through the crankshaft from front to back through each Rod Journal and associated Main Bearing with oil pressure building from front to back. At the same time the oil is flowing through the timing chain idler sprocket as well as upward through the oil port toward the front of each head (a hole about 3/8 inch diameter) feeding the camshaft journals and associated cams and lifters. All that journal oil is not drained while sitting without oil pressure but all the ports/paths to those locations does drain a bit and is replenished within a few seconds of start up. Now if you let an engine sit for months I think the situation is identical as cited above as the oil is maintained (not drained) from the various journals where you need oil on start up. Start Up Journal Loads are light as compared to driving journal loads so the coating of unpressurized oil does prevent metal to metal contact upon start up for several seconds and probably much longer.

And keep in mind the LT5 usually turns over several times before firing which that is usually within that time period that gets the oil filter filled. I know this because I have an LT5 engine upside down with oil pan off and heads off. If I fill the Oil Pick up port on bottom (top with engine upside down) with about a quart of oil (in steps while rotating the crankshaft clockwise) I get an empty oil filter filled and oil coming out of the crankshaft journals (two oil ports to heads blocked) within about 50 rotations of the crankshaft more or less.

The actual oil pump flow rate at Idle is 1.6 gpm (at say 850 rpm) which actually would mean the oil flow rate is .0075 quarts each revolution of the crankshaft.

When the engine fires up at 1,500 rpm you get 25 rotations of the crankshaft in one second. You would get one quart of oil in 133 revolutions of the crankshaft or about 5 seconds of idle at 1,500 rpm which is more than enough to fill the empty oil filter :p

Well, it takes a couple minutes - filling, waiting for the oil to pass through the filter to the fill the outer side of the filter media, then keep adding a little at a time until it is practically full.

Then, I hold the filter close to the threaded center 'post'. In one clean motion I turn it over and plant it on the threaded post and spin it on. Because of the rubber diaphragm (ZR-1 filters), oil doesn't come out of the periphery holes.

Y'all do whatcha want, but with minimal effort it is really not messy at all; save for maybe a few drops. (I figure if Lotus specified filters with the diaphragm valve in them as to minimize the wear until oil pressure builds up, then pre-filling the filter has to be a good thing.)

YMMV...

[Paul Workman]

After you have filled that oil filter before installing and after you have practiced and accomplished the "one clean motion planting" to perfection you get your oil filter installed :D

Then you fire the LT5 up and get oil pressure a bit faster (if you fire the LT5 up within minutes of installing the oil filter). Then you let the LT5 sit overnight and you are exactly where I am the next morning after I install a dry filter or you may be just a tad ahead because your filter medium is wet (not a full oil filter).

So.....rather than have us practice the "one clean motion planting" why don't you just fill your oil filter the night before and then after a few minutes tip it over in a clean oil pan letting it drain exactly like I do by leaving it on the engine until the next morning. You can then pour that drained clean oil back into the empty oil quart. Then the next morning you remove your old oil filter and install your filter medium wet but drained oil filter which is exactly like the old oil filter you remove. NO MESS

If you really want to get a discussion......why not every morning before you fire up your LT5, remove the drained oil filter and fill it up with oil and then with the "one clean motion planting" install that oil filter (filled with oil) before you fire the LT5 up within minutes later. You could really get carried away and do that "trick" every time you turn the engine off for 30 minutes or more. I have never heard of anyone doing that (at least admitting they do that) on an LT5 before :sign10:

Cliff... Don't confuse me with the facts - I'VE ALREADY MADE UP MY MIND!:p

:sign10:I guess this all started with leaving the drain plug out over nite so as to get that last drop out...seems rather moot when it still retains a quart or more in the cooler and other places, no? I don't see what difference a few drops would make against a quart+ that remains in there: left over nite or not? I don't think it does. Besides... 10+ quarts of fresh SYNTHETIC oil mixed with a quart+ of slightly used SYNTHETIC oil doesn't seem worth all the fuss, no?

OMG...!! We've forgotten the perpetuation of diminishing proportions aspect! :icon_scra Think about it: Somewhere in that crank case there is some of the original oil still running around!:jawdrop:

[Hog]

I remember reading the service instructions for the 3.8L turbo Buicks. After an oil drain/refill and filter change, the tech was to disable the ignition and turn the engine over until oil pressure is attained.

Could probably be done with the LT5 as well.

[Paul Workman]

I remember reading the service instructions for the 3.8L turbo Buicks. After an oil drain/refill and filter change, the tech was to disable the ignition and turn the engine over until oil pressure is attained.

Could probably be done with the LT5 as well.

THAT makes sense (to me)! As we've been tossing this around, that occurred to me as well.

[Dynomite]

Cliff... Don't confuse me with the facts - I'VE ALREADY MADE UP MY MIND!:p

:sign10:I guess this all started with leaving the drain plug out over nite so as to get that last drop out...seems rather moot when it still retains a quart or more in the cooler and other places, no? I don't see what's difference a few drops leaving it drip over nite would make against a quart+ that remains in there: left over nite or not? I don't think it does. Besides... 10+ quarts of fresh SYNTHETIC oil mixed with a quart+ of slightly used SYNTHETIC oil doesn't seem worth all the fuss, no?

OMG...!! We've forgotten the perpetuation of diminishing proportions aspect! :icon_scra Think about it: Somewhere in that crank case there is some of the original oil still running around!:jawdrop:

You guys always get me calculating :sign10:

I remember reading the service instructions for the 3.8L turbo Buicks. After an oil drain/refill and filter change, the tech was to disable the ignition and turn the engine over until oil pressure is attained.

Could probably be done with the LT5 as well.
That is exactly like my experiment where I find the oil filter is filled in about 50 revolutions of the crankshaft with NO rod pressure on the rod journals (cranking the engine by hand). Yes...that does make sense but then again.....I think there is the majority of LT5s that have been fired up with drained back oil filters for years and with well over 100,000 miles on the engines with NO noticeable adverse wear on the Rod or Main bearings from what we would call a potential dry start up. I surmise from that the oil maintained on the journals is plenty to prevent metal to metal contact of the rod bearings/journals for a short period of no oil pressure. I further suggest that this oil maintained on the journals resides there for a very long period of time (months if not years).

[Paul Workman]

You guys always get me calculating :sign10:


That is exactly like my experiment where I find the oil filter is filled in about 50 revolutions of the crankshaft with NO rod pressure on the rod journals (cranking the engine by hand). Yes...that does make sense but then again.....I think there is the majority of LT5s that have been fired up with drained back oil filters for years and with well over 100,000 miles on the engines with NO noticeable adverse wear on the Rod or Main bearings from what we would call a potential dry start up. I surmise from that the oil maintained on the journals is plenty to prevent metal to metal contact of the rod bearings/journals for a short period of no oil pressure. I further suggest that this oil maintained on the journals resides there for a very long period of time (months if not years).

Yeah-but...think on how much of the wear in to total X miles occurred during the engine's life of cold start-up/NO oil pressure, Huh? Is it .0000009% or 90% or somewhere in between? (That'll keep ya bizzy for a while!:confused:)

[Dynomite]

Yeah-but...think on how much of the wear in to total X miles occurred during the engine's life of cold start-up/NO oil pressure, Huh? Is it .0000009% or 90% or somewhere in between? (That'll keep ya bizzy for a while!:confused:)

:D

OK...OK....OK.....I am going to design an electric auxiliary oil pump that I just flip a switch (with key on) before firing up the LT5. I run this auxiliary oil pump for a few seconds until the dash oil gauge reads good oil pressure. Then turn off the auxiliary and fire up the LT5. :p

I will install a pressure switch on the auxiliary intake side that is closed when there is no oil pressure and opens at say 50 psi oil pressure with key on (the auxiliary gets 12 volts available when key is on at the pressure switch). Just in case your mechanical oil pump fails this auxiliary will also function as an emergency back up for a failed Oil Pump.....;)

Or even more simple.......a push button that hot wires the Starter Solenoid hot wire (just run a wire from battery to switch to Starter Solenoid Wire). You get in the ZR1 and push the Starter Solenoid button with key off and the engine turns over until you get oil pressure (check with key on). But.....I think with key on if you hot wire the Solenoid the LT5 will fire up so you have to not push Starter Solenoid button and key on at the same time which may take some practice like the "one clean motion planting" of the oil filter takes practice :D

How about them apples :sign10:

[Paul Workman]

:D

OK...OK....OK.....I am going to design an electric auxiliary oil pump that I just flip a switch (with key on) before firing up the LT5. I run this auxiliary oil pump for a few seconds until the dash oil gauge reads good oil pressure. Then turn off the auxiliary and fire up the LT5. :p

I will install a pressure switch on the auxiliary intake side that is closed when there is no oil pressure and opens at say 50 psi oil pressure with key on (the auxiliary gets 12 volts available when key is on at the pressure switch). Just in case your mechanical oil pump fails this auxiliary will also function as an emergency back up for a failed Oil Pump.....

Or even more simple.......a push button that hot wires the Starter Solenoid hot wire (just run a wire from battery to switch to Starter Solenoid Wire). You get in the ZR1 and push the Starter Solenoid button with key off and the engine turns over until you get oil pressure (check with key on). But.....I think with key on if you hot wire the Solenoid the LT5 will fire up so you have to not push Starter Solenoid button and key on at the same time which may take some practice like the "one clean motion planting" of the oil filter takes practice :D

How about them apples :sign10:

I realize we're just having a bit o' esoteric fun here (and everyone else left to go have a beer while we two idiots argue in the parking lot!:p), but truth be known, IIRC some aircraft engines in fact DO have a pre-oiler, just for the reason we're kickin' around here. So there!! ;)

[XfireZ51]

I just take advantage of the long starting cycle for the LT-5 and run the starter a few times just before the engine catches.

[Dynomite]

I just take advantage of the long starting cycle for the LT-5 and run the starter a few times just before the engine catches.

Does that work.....just crank it a bit and stop...crank some more and then stop (not going all the way to firing)....I will try that today for kicks......I mean for pre-oiling...that may be the answere but starter will then get a work out :p

OK...on a 91' I cranked it over maybe 4 or 5 times without starting (did this six times). Then fired it up and oil pressure was almost immediate.
Same on 90'. The oil pressure on a regular start (after sitting over night) comes up in a second or two later and I am thinking I will stay with "standard" starting practice and "standard" oil filter changing practice. That is to say......just turn it over until if fires and let engine sit overnight before changing oil filter with new dry filter.

That method of changing oil filter on the LT5 is cleaner and with less mess than on any other engine I have ever changed oil filters (the filters that are horizontal or tilted up which stay full of oil and capture oil above them that creates the mess when you remove the filter).

[XfireZ51]

Don't think its necessary to get full pressure before ignition. Just looking to get some oil into the system and give it a head start before actually running the motor. Try that even now while car is lying dormant for long periods. I look to start the car during the winter at least once every 3-4 weeks altho I wait for temps close to 40 if possible.

[mike100]

I remember reading the service instructions for the 3.8L turbo Buicks. After an oil drain/refill and filter change, the tech was to disable the ignition and turn the engine over until oil pressure is attained.

Could probably be done with the LT5 as well.

Yes, but of course you should also remove the spark plugs to reduce the compression load on the crankshaft! You also get a faster cranking speed.

Actually I have done this before on new engines that I did not have the oil pump priming tool (or as mentioned, on distributorless engines like the 3.8 that use the classic style sump mounted pump).

[Paul Workman]

Hmmmm.... Kerful Mike & Dom, or we're gonna veer into a formal (and good) mod discussion about cutting off ignition/fuel so as it would be possible to turn pre-oil the motor after sitting for and "extended" period...

[Dynomite]

Hmmmm.... Kerful Mike & Dom, or we're gonna veer into a formal (and good) mod discussion about cutting off ignition/fuel so as it would be possible to turn pre-oil the motor after sitting for and "extended" period...

You will probably not see any oil pressure register on the oil pressure gauge just from starter cranking. But......you will fill all the oil voids with oil. Once started the LT5 oil pressure jump to full pressure will be almost immediate. Like with my experiment this morning on a 91' and a 90' :p

[Mystic ZR-1]

How about an Accusump system?
They're pretty straight forward but I've never
seen one on an LT5.

[Dynomite]

How about an Accusump system?
They're pretty straight forward but I've never
seen one on an LT5.

This is what Canton Racing says about their Accusump System.
I am no so sure about the wear and tear when I start :p
I would think if this were a serious problem, GM would have incorporated a Pre-Oiler system ;)

Did you know that most of the wear and tear on your engine occurs when you start it? Solve this problem by installing an accumulator, which is also a pre-oiler! By circulating oil throughout the engine before you start it, you can avoid the damage caused by dry starts! You'll also get added benefits: You'll increase your oil supply and, because the oil in the accumulator is under constant pressure, if the oil in the pan runs away from the pick-up durring hard cornering, the oil in the accumulator will continue to lubricate the engine! You'll be double protected. It's a huge return for a small investment.

I am thinking of installing this.....:D
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjQwWDQ4MA==/z/OaIAAOSwYGFUwFTh/$_12.JPG

[BigJohn]

Do you have any more of them????

[Dynomite]

Do you have any more of them????

Engine Oiler (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Original-Antique-Brass-Lunkenheimer-Alpha-6-Hit-Miss-Steam-Engine-Oiler-/361193605551?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5418d109af)

[BigJohn]

Cool thanks!!!

[Fully Vetted]

This is what Canton Racing says about their Accusump System.
I am no so sure about the wear and tear when I start :p
I would think if this were a serious problem, GM would have incorporated a Pre-Oiler system ;)

Did you know that most of the wear and tear on your engine occurs when you start it? Solve this problem by installing an accumulator, which is also a pre-oiler! By circulating oil throughout the engine before you start it, you can avoid the damage caused by dry starts! You'll also get added benefits: You'll increase your oil supply and, because the oil in the accumulator is under constant pressure, if the oil in the pan runs away from the pick-up durring hard cornering, the oil in the accumulator will continue to lubricate the engine! You'll be double protected. It's a huge return for a small investment.

I am thinking of installing this.....:D
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjQwWDQ4MA==/z/OaIAAOSwYGFUwFTh/$_12.JPG

Cliff - I just came across my dad's entire collection of his oilers. And they are all Lunkenheimers and beautiful!

[Paul Workman]

Sitting here sippin my coffee, I just remembered that story from the HOTB book, where this gal was cranking up the brand new ZR-1s in sub freezing temps with the accelerator nearly floored. The result was a number of new ZR-1s with cam failures. So, it seem a quite plausible notion that most of the wear over time goes hand in hand with cold, dry starts, sans pre-oiling.

I too crank my Z every 3-4 weeks when in winter storage. My thought is to minimize the "drying out" of the bearings, and keep fuel residue from gumming up in the injectors (which actually happened to one of my motorcycles and a pressure washer left too long over winter w/o running). Pulling the injector fuses, IIRC, is easy to do, and would allow some pre-oiling/cranking for say 4-6 seconds w/o worrying about it firing up. (If it does fire, one would have to be wondering about a leaking injector.)

I knew this discussion was going to veer into something useful!:dancing

[Dynomite]

this gal was cranking up the brand new ZR-1s in sub freezing temps with the accelerator nearly floored. The result was a number of new ZR-1s with cam failures. The result was a number of new ZR-1s with cam failures.

Now you are scaring everyone.......

cannot tell what is meant by cam failure.

Was it due to gas pedal to the floor, freezing temps, or a brand new ZR1 that had sat for months on show room floor :p
Or.......something else entirely??

This discussion has just veered into something scary :D

[A26B]

Sitting here sippin my coffee, I just remembered that story from the HOTB book, where this gal was cranking up the brand new ZR-1s in sub freezing temps with the accelerator nearly floored. The result was a number of new ZR-1s with cam failures. So, it seem a quite plausible notion that most of the wear over time goes hand in hand with cold, dry starts, sans pre-oiling..................

That's just part of the story.

As related to me by Graham Behan.
Upon investigating this problem, it was discovered that the cam journal & corresponding journal bore tolerances were at fault, but certainly exacerbated by the starting procedure. All machining dimensions have tolerances, or a range of acceptable size. The size usually varies from tool wear and the machine tool accuracy. Such is the case here. As it turned out, clearance from the cam journal diameter at the large end of the tolerance and the journal bores at the small end of tolerance was insufficient. Revising the dimensions & corresponding tolerances solved the problem, right along with the cold start procedure.

[A26B]

WEW......Thanks Jerry......was about to start tear downs of five or six LT5s to investigate the issues :D

It appears this was then a problem in the design of the first few LT5s that has long been corrected.
It also appears that such failure was not a locking of the camshaft between the cam covers and head but just a lot of initial wear of aluminum in the cam cover and head where the cam shaft was in contact. Or was this something more catastrophic????

I have noticed that on all the cam covers I have removed that some cam cover journals on the same cam cover have greater wear than others.

I have also noticed that the cam cover journal wear in general is the same on ALL cam covers no matter how many miles on the LT5.

This indicates some intolerance from the get go in the design of the cams/cam journals which seems to correct itself (quickly) by the wear indicated. In other words, once worn in the wear stops and the cams find themselves in a comfort zone for thousands (100,000 or more miles).

I am assuming that ALL the LT5s that came off assembly line with this initial Cam Journal intolerance were corrected in a call back??

And....what is the Cold Start Procedure??

About the wear pattern in the cam cover/cylinder head journal bores & similarity in different engines.
Think about the forces on the camshaft along the length of the cam. I think you will come to understand the wear pattern & why it is the same in other engines.;)

[A26B]

Once in a while one will find aberrations in components like the Cam Lobes on one camshaft I found where there was wear on one side of the lobe as if the cam lobe was not cut parallel to the lifter (every lobe of that camshaft).

Supposed to be like that to impart rotation of the lifter.

[Paul Workman]

Sorry If what I said about WOT cold starts scared ya Cliff - or anyone else;). I recon my point was missed; no fault of yours or anyone's (and I DO do cold starts, all winter long, FWIW).

My point was only with regard to when some reports say significant amounts of the total wear occurs in any engine, i.e., during cold, near-dry starts in general. The LT5 WOT cold start affair was (to me) just a bizarre & extreme example of such damage of cold and perhaps dry starts. And, Jerry brought additional info regarding the particular circumstances that further exacerbated the net result - further insulating us from actual wear and tear.

I guess we're past the age old question that started this: Does your chewing gum taste better left on the bedpost over night? (Or was it oil draining over night? - I forget: seems so long ago!))

[5ABI VT]

Changed my oil today.. I did let it sit overnight tilted to the drain side. I also did fill the oil filter up and let it sit and soak in for 2 days.. tipped it over to let any excess oil out and then screwed it on. I warm my oil up in the oven .. pours like water and figure couldn't hurt startup when its cold. the 10w40 is like ketchup compared to when its warmed up.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v141/5abivt/5ABI%20ZR1%20Makeover/5E8FF642-3F20-4F5E-8890-A43762374F8A_zps9j9uv0wi.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/5abivt/media/5ABI%20ZR1%20Makeover/5E8FF642-3F20-4F5E-8890-A43762374F8A_zps9j9uv0wi.jpg.html)

[Fully Vetted]

Wow. Just...wow. Ok, you win.

[RussMcB]

I've found that if you play soothing music to your oil for two hours the night before it flows into the engine better.

[A26B]

I think we have gone where no man has gone before........

[Paul Workman]

I think we have gone where no man has gone before........

Or should have!!!!!:p

[XfireZ51]

I've found that if you play soothing music to your oil for two hours the night before it flows into the engine better.

Smooth Jazz or Classical?

I don't run my motor in the winter unless temps get to somewhere ~ 40F.

[Mystic ZR-1]

Changed my oil today.. I did let it sit overnight tilted to the drain side. I also did fill the oil filter up and let it sit and soak in for 2 days.. tipped it over to let any excess oil out and then screwed it on. I warm my oil up in the oven .. pours like water and figure couldn't hurt startup when its cold. the 10w40 is like ketchup compared to when its warmed up.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v141/5abivt/5ABI%20ZR1%20Makeover/5E8FF642-3F20-4F5E-8890-A43762374F8A_zps9j9uv0wi.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/5abivt/media/5ABI%20ZR1%20Makeover/5E8FF642-3F20-4F5E-8890-A43762374F8A_zps9j9uv0wi.jpg.html)

I'll bet your Bride let's you use the dishwasher to clean parts too...:)

[mike100]

Pre-heating your oil jugs and pre-saturating the oil filter for 2 hours... ok, gonna give you the OCD of the year award.

Of course if you want to do it right, you still need to yank the oil cooler, right?


bonus points for doing the job in the house!
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c265/mschrameck/Cars/DSC03646.jpg~original

[Blownrunner]

Pull the oil cooler? My 91's oil cooler has an oil drain plug. You guys knew about this, right? If we are preheating oil in the oven...

[Dynomite]

Mobile 1 M1-207 Oil Filter (https://sales.shopthedude.com/goto.cl/CLControl/R05VIFR5cGVkU3RyZWFtIDEApApZoaTgpAgU48DhpAgU4zhnQ0 xQYWdlciCkCjxaJOCkCBVHYOGkCBUwTWhDTFN0cmluZyBpQC5y ZXN1bHRzACkgAKQQforc4MQIFUdgdUNhdGVnb3J5X2RldGFpbC 5zaHRtbADBAKQKM_gc4KQIFXKg4aQIFXIsakNMQ2F0ZWdvcnkg pAox4TTgpAgTtoDhpAgTtfxzQ0xNdXRhYmxlRGljdGlvbmFyeS AhpAox9iTgxAgVR2BiaWQApAo034zgpAgTwKDhpAgTwChoQ0xO dW1iZXIgQWlCAZgAAKQKMdhc4MQIFUdgdHNob3B0aGVkdWRlLm NhdGVnb3J5AAAg?start=30)

[RussMcB]

Pull the oil cooler? My 91's oil cooler has an oil drain plug. You guys knew about this, right?I didn't know that, but I have a good excuse since I'm a newbie ZR-1 owner. :-)

I looked in the manual but did not find a reference or picture of the plug. Is it easy to find and access? I'll crawl under my car later tonight and look for it.

Thanks for posting this. I'm in the middle of an oil change(*) and it will be nice to replace a little more of the old oil.

Russ

* It's been draining for about a week. Is that long enough? JK :-)

[Dynomite]

* It's been draining for about a week. Is that long enough? JK :-)

:D

Just do not forget the LT5 has no oil and get in the ZR1 and fire it up :sign10:

[RussMcB]

:D

Just do not forget the LT5 has no oil and get in the ZR1 and fire it up :sign10:That scary thought has crossed my mind several times this week. I should go tape a note to the steering wheel right now.

Or maybe I'll do a new Cold Start/No Oil test and add a data point to our knowledgebase. :-)

[Dynomite]

Pull the oil cooler? My 91's oil cooler has an oil drain plug. You guys knew about this, right? If we are preheating oil in the oven...

I looked in the manual but did not find a reference or picture of the plug. Is it easy to find and access? I'll crawl under my car later tonight and look for it.


For your information......

It seems that everyone accept that the oil in the oil cooler does not get changed during a routine oil change. Did you know, according to the FSM, that the oil cooler holds 2 quarts of oil, about 20% of the oil in the engine?

Determined, I figured out how GM solved this problem: The oil cooler has a drain plug that is easily accessible on the passenger side of the car, aft of the center front spoiler, in the center of what appears to be a large grommet with an allen screw in the middle! Mine was covered up by some type of sealant or adhesive, which is easily removed. The grommet is actually the lower right mount that sandwiches the oil cooler/air conditioning condenser assembly in the front cooler assembly housing.

I am sharing this because it seems to be accepted practice that you don't drain the oil cooler at oil change time. I would be astonished if I were the first to discover this, or at least to post it on this forum.

I believe the "conventional wisdom" needs to prevail here because the plug the OP mentions isn't meant to be a "service port". I don't know the thread size involved here but for any thing other than maybe it's use to drain the oil for a cooler change seems maybe foolish. Any conventional engine oil drain plug uses a gasket or seal to prevent seepage and I'm quite sure this could only be some sort of an NPT plug and that's not a conventional method used for engine oil service ports.


Or maybe I'll do a new Cold Start/No Oil test and add a data point to our knowledgebase. :-)

Ya....let us know how that goes :D

[RussMcB]

Here is a posting by a guy who added a small extension to his oil cooler drain/port for easier access. What do you think?

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c4-zr-1-discussion/1086433-drain-plug-for-the-oil-cooler.html