Steering feeling vague

[secondchance]

I have a 94Z with 146,000 miles. The car has been freshed up over the last 5 years - poly bushings, brakes, interior, etc... including bore, stroke, porting and cams.

Theother day, while driving, I noticed a dead spot in steering between the left and the right - top of the streering wheel. Anyone had similar experience? Is this from rack & pinion being worn out? Is there a gear lash adjustment? If deemed necessary to replace the steering rack, how difficult a work is this?

Any and all input is appreciated.

[GOLDCYLON]

I have a 94Z with 146,000 miles. The car has been freshed up over the last 5 years - poly bushings, brakes, interior, etc... including bore, stroke, porting and cams.

Theother day, while driving, I noticed a dead spot in steering between the left and the right - top of the streering wheel. Anyone had similar experience? Is this from rack & pinion being worn out? Is there a gear lash adjustment? If deemed necessary to replace the steering rack, how difficult a work is this?

Any and all input is appreciated.


Do you mean were the steering wheel can play at the top center left and right a little bit and continue straight? Mine has always been that way its not like my wifes mercedes SLK it has a immediate response to any steering wheel input

[secondchance]

Do you mean were the steering wheel can play at the top center left and right a little bit and continue straight? Mine has always been that way it not like my wifes mercedes SLK it has a immediate response to any steering wheel input

Exactly what you are describing. Either I have gotten a lot more sensitive or rand and pinion have developed extra clearance.

[GOLDCYLON]

Exactly what you are describing. Either I have gotten a lot more sensitive or rand and pinion have developed extra clearance.

I would be interested in what other members have to say about this but mine has always been this way. I always assumed the ratio was just not as "Gut and tite" as my wifes car but you do noticed the differnce. I know there are a few Multiple Z owners out there so maybe they can post up what they are seeing and feeling at the top center of the wheel

Im running poly everything and coil overs and my front sway bar is also relocated by Guldstrand I wonder if thats the slight difference? I dont know

[WVZR-1]

Grab the intermediate shaft while someone else twitches the wheel left to right to left and you should likely be able to feel either the wear in the intermediate shaft OR feel some slack in the rack. Do this with it not running. I believe not running would limit the travel to the top of the rack at the spool valve.

I've never attempted the adjustment but there is a spec in the FSM for adjustment that is similar to what I've always done on older 800 steering boxes. I measured a rack a few days ago for someone and I believe M22 and a 1 3/4 for the locking nut. The 1 3/4 would need to be a very thin spanner of sorts, I've not had my hands on a plumbers sink wrench in several years but it might do well. I didn't try an M22 but I'm quite sure of that on the hex. Perhaps someone has a rack near their tools to confirm.

Something like this but like I say it's been a very long time:

http://www.amazon.com/Master-Plumber-223-388-3-In-1-Wrench/dp/B000BQQMUU

I don't know that the plumbers tool would fit "in the car" but it would require something of rather diminished thickness. A 1 3/4 end wrench I doubt would accomplish it but then again I haven't tried. In the car it could be quite a task, maybe there's one on someone's lift to check.

[Hib Halverson]

Last week, I had the exact same problem with the steering rack in my Camaro.

The bolt which holds the intermediate steering shaft to the steering pinion splines had loosened up.

I retightened it to the spec. in the FSM and the play in the steering was gone.

In fact, it's prompted me to check that same bolt in my ZR-1 this weekend.

[lbszr]

I've got the same problem. Mine also has a knock when the engine is off and rock the steering wheel back and forth, pulling up and down on the left tie rod also causes a knock in the rack. It also at times, had a catch, or bind, point while turning the wheel, not at center.

When on the ground, I have about .5 inch at least of steering wheel movement with no steering output.

Compared to a C5, there is no play. I can't imagine there should be any play on these either.

If you can get your power steering lines loose on the rack, the change wouldn't be too bad. I had mine all disconnected and ready to come out except the lines. Second attempt I'll try taking the power steering pump out so I can get better leverage on the lines, probably radiator hoses also and try it from the top side.
So I'm not enjoying the rack change.:(

I have a rebuilt rack, might be a while, but I'll post back on play when I get it in there.
I hear turnone has a good reputation of rebuilding them.

I tried the factory adjustment with no help.

[Hib Halverson]

Grab the intermediate shaft while someone else twitches the wheel left to right to left and you should likely be able to feel either the wear in the intermediate shaft OR feel some slack in the rack. Do this with it not running. I believe not running would limit the travel to the top of the rack at the spool valve.

I've never attempted the adjustment but there is a spec in the FSM for adjustment that is similar to what I've always done on older 800 steering boxes. I measured a rack a few days ago for someone and I believe M22 and a 1 3/4 for the locking nut. The 1 3/4 would need to be a very thin spanner of sorts, I've not had my hands on a plumbers sink wrench in several years but it might do well. I didn't try an M22 but I'm quite sure of that on the hex. Perhaps someone has a rack near their tools to confirm.

Something like this but like I say it's been a very long time:

http://www.amazon.com/Master-Plumber-223-388-3-In-1-Wrench/dp/B000BQQMUU

I don't know that the plumbers tool would fit "in the car" but it would require something of rather diminished thickness. A 1 3/4 end wrench I doubt would accomplish it but then again I haven't tried. In the car it could be quite a task, maybe there's one on someone's lift to check.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that big adjuster nut on the front, driver side of the rack is like the free-play adjustment on a Saginaw 800 series recirculating ball steering gear.

That's the pinion being preload adjustment. The preload adjustment is as follows, loosen the lock nut (45-mm, I think), turn the adjuster in just until it bottoms, then turn it out 50°-70°. Finally, retighten the lock nut. Adjusting that will likely not fix the problem being discussed but you can try it.

If the problem is not a loose intermediate shaft and you're getting noise when you move the inner tie rod ends up and down, you probably need a new or rebuilt steering rack.

[WVZR-1]

Don't make the mistake of thinking that big adjuster nut on the front, driver side of the rack is like the free-play adjustment on a Saginaw 800 series recirculating ball steering gear.

That's the pinion being preload adjustment. The preload adjustment is as follows, loosen the lock nut (45-mm, I think), turn the adjuster in just until it bottoms, then turn it out 50°-70°. Finally, retighten the lock nut. Adjusting that will likely not fix the problem being discussed but you can try it.

If the problem is not a loose intermediate shaft and you're getting noise when you move the inner tie rod ends up and down, you probably need a new or rebuilt steering rack.

I didn't assume it was for free-play adjustment and referenced the FSM for preload adjustment. 45mm (1.77165) is quite close to the what I measured and I don't believe that I measured quite that so I referenced it to what I felt most might have access to locally or inexpensively.

The physical mounts of the rack to the chassis could also create a similar feel but I would think that more easily checked from underneath under power when checking inner/outer tie rods. A person if they felt an issue when holding the intermediate shaft could of course increase the effort and likely see the rack move if it were a mount issue.

I believe a reasonable number of potential intermediate shaft issues would be found vs. actual steering rack issues, maybe not the bolt at the rack coupling or the bolt at the column coupling but the "rag joint" on higher mile cars.

[secondchance]

Thanks guys. I'll check steering shaft joint, rack to chassis mounting, tie rod ends and go from there.
Anyone replaced the steering rack? How difficult?

[Billy Mild]

Why must the steering rack be replaced? Can't the tie rods be replaced instead?

[secondchance]

Why must the steering rack be replaced? Can't the tie rods be replaced instead?

I didn't say that it must be replaced. Just that if pinion and rack are worn to a point of being sloppy, I Sam guessing, would have to be replaced.

[mike100]

I test drove a 92 vette yesterday with 209k miles on it and the chassis and steering felt about the same as my 39k mile car. The interior and typical C4 wear items were another story, but the chassis/suspension and steering would seem to be a strong point on these cars (for street use anyways).

[Hib Halverson]

I didn't assume it was for free-play adjustment and referenced the FSM for preload adjustment. 45mm (1.77165) is quite close to the what I measured and I don't believe that I measured quite that so I referenced it to what I felt most might have access to locally or inexpensively.

The physical mounts of the rack to the chassis could also create a similar feel but I would think that more easily checked from underneath under power when checking inner/outer tie rods. A person if they felt an issue when holding the intermediate shaft could of course increase the effort and likely see the rack move if it were a mount issue.

I believe a reasonable number of potential intermediate shaft issues would be found vs. actual steering rack issues, maybe not the bolt at the rack coupling or the bolt at the column coupling but the "rag joint" on higher mile cars.

In previous posts I incorrectly identifed the "rack bearing" adjuster as a "pinion bearing" adjuster. I apologize for that mistake.

I went out to the shop last night and looked at the socket I bought for the lock nut on the rack bearing adjuster. The locknut size is, indeed, 45-mm. The reasons I bought a socket were 1) the nut requires tightening to 55-ft/lbs and lack of space around that nut precludes use of an open-end wrench, pipe wrench or slip-joint plier and 2) the cost of a 45-mm or 1 3/4-in box wrench was far more than a socket. I bought the socket from Amazon.

Someone asked about inner tie rods...

They can be replaced but it requires removal of the rack to do it.

Finally, the ZR-1 steering has no "rag joint". The last Corvette to use one was C3. There is a universial joint just above the steering rack at the end of the intermediate shaft which serves a similar purpose. Obviously, if that u-joint is wearing or has failed, play would develop in the steering.

[WVZR-1]

They can be replaced but it requires removal of the rack to do it.

Finally, the ZR-1 steering has no "rag joint". The last Corvette to use one was C3. There is a universial joint just above the steering rack at the end of the intermediate shaft which serves a similar purpose. Obviously, if that u-joint is wearing or has failed, play would develop in the steering.

Hib - just because the "rag-joint" isn't directly bolted to the gear box or steering rack doesn't disqualify the use of the term to describe the "coupling" between the two halves of the I/S shaft. That I believe is getting just a bit to damned technical. What would you care to call it?

The later C4 I/S shaft has u-joints top and bottom at the steering rack and the column lower shaft but a "flexible" joint in the center to absorb I would think harmonics.

3915

When I mentioned "rag joint" I'm referring to the flexible aspect at the joint of the two halves of the I/S shaft. I realized I used "intermediate shaft" for what SPO and GM service calls steering gear coupling but I believe it's generally understood I believe to be "intermediate shaft".

Can your 45mm socket be used in the car?

A replacement I/S would need to be from a '90 - '95 ZR-1 OR a '91+ base C4. The '90 L98 base car is different.

It might be interesting to investigate the replacement of the "rag/flexible" joint with maybe a urethane/poly service part. I've never done it but I know that there's product out there for other applications with a similar coupling.

YUN - It might likely be possible to tighten the two hex nuts/bolts that secure the two halves of the I/S surrounding the "flexible" aspect also. Lot's of wear/tear could maybe loosen them. Shouldn't require much of an effort in an attempt. Pinch bolt @ top, pinch bolt @ rack and the two @ the "flexible" disc.

[5ABI VT]

I would guess this isn't normal. If I had some slop im certain my front end would be in pieces lol. my 93 has a short ratio rack and I will probably do the same to my 94 with new tie rod parts to ensure everything is sharp.

[batchman]

Someone asked about inner tie rods...

They can be replaced but it requires removal of the rack to do it.


It may not work on this particular rack but a friend has a very interesting set of Snap-On inner tie rod tools that make changing them in-car pretty straightforward. Of course the set was pretty spendy.


Finally, the ZR-1 steering has no "rag joint". The last Corvette to use one was C3. There is a universial joint just above the steering rack at the end of the intermediate shaft which serves a similar purpose. Obviously, if that u-joint is wearing or has failed, play would develop in the steering.

I beg to differ, at least on our 91 and another ZR-1 parts car that "universal joint" was most certainly a rag joint - rubber & canvas laminated, just like the old days. This was a surprise to me since our 88 z51 car used something more like a hockey puck. I do not know if all other c4s have the hockey puck or just the z51, but I presume the ZR-1 used the rag joint (and the slow rack) to limit twichiness on a car with such a high top speed, as well as improved NVH in its price class.

On our ZR-1, I started out with the collar tying the rag joint to the lower shaft/rack loosening up, and once tightened the rag joint itself exhibits play, or to be kind "slow engagement".

It might be interesting to investigate the replacement of the "rag/flexible" joint with maybe a urethane/poly service part. I've never done it but I know that there's product out there for other applications with a similar coupling.

I switched the intermediate medium on a ZR-1 'universal' to the puck from another z51 car (can't interchange the whole joint) and that, coupled with a quick rack and a Turn-One "stock replacement" pump crisped up the steering very nicely. My race class now allows metal bushings so I look forward to mounting the rack with same for yet another notch of crisp.

And for completeness' sake I have had other cars developing dead spots show big improvement using a high-quality synthetic fluid such as Mercon V or Redline Power Steering Fluid. Overheats less too ;).

Cheers,
- Jeff