Upgrade to 1995 ZR-1?

[Okiedoke]

I currently have a 1991 ZR-1 and have recently been thinking about whether I should keep the '91 (22k miles) or try to upgrade to a '95. I wanted to see if anyone has any words of wisdom on this. Is it worthwhile in terms of performance, future valuation, traction control, etc. vs more electronics and a $15k or so price difference? Thanks.

[USAZR1]

I currently have a 1991 ZR-1 and have recently been thinking about whether I should keep the '91 (22k miles) or try to upgrade to a '95. I wanted to see if anyone has any words of wisdom on this. Is it worthwhile in terms of performance, future valuation, traction control, etc. vs more electronics and a $15k or so price difference? Thanks.


Sounds like you already own a really decent ZR-1. Let's look at what you would be gaining,if any.
Performance would be close to a wash as even though the 93-95 405hp LT5's are a smidgen more powerful in stock form versus the 90-92 375hp engines,the later cars weigh more which tends to even things out.
Future valuation favors the 95 over your 91 when all else is equal,obviously. There were four times as many 91's produced vs a 95.
Traction control? After owning both a 90 & 91 before purchasing our 94,I could probably do without that feature. Giving up the glovebox for another airbag is another negative I don't care for.
Just my opinion but I think the build quality is better on the 93-95 cars but I'm kinda splitting hairs on that point.
I prefer the 94-95 sport seats over the earlier seats but again,that's just personal preference.
$15K price difference? I wouldn't do it if I owned a low-mile car like yours,assuming it's in excellent condition or better.

[edram454]

the only advantage I see is future valuation simply based on low quantity of 95. I really dont see any other gains. the 95's became grand touring corvettes, quieter, smoother wider seats for wider seats, etc... focus not so much on performance but more on comfort. no great strides in horsepower gains.. I would keep your 91 and enjoy it. I prefer and always have preferred the 90 because of its distinctive look and harder ride and tight seats makes it feel more like a race car. I could have bought any year but only looked at 1990. It is the least valuable but the most produced and you will find a wider variety of cars from stockers to heavily modified cars in many colors. I would stick with your 1991 because it sounds like a nice car.

ed ramos #3028

[Dime]

A great ZR-1 is a great ZR-1. Like Clint and Ed said, the performance equals out across the board. They're all ZR-1s, they'll all make you happy, but if you want a 95 because you want a 95, then do so if you'll be that much happier with it. Your 91 sounds like a champ though.

[Blue Flame Restorations]

The main difference to me between my 91 and 95 was the interior. Besides that, not much.

[HIZNHRZ]

I had a garage queen 91 and looked at the same choice several years ago. I ended up keeping my 91. I took a fraction of what it would have cost me to "step up" into a 95 and put that money into the 91. Each visible change could be returned to stock with the exception of the windshield. To the casual observer the car looks stock. To a ZR-1 guy the exhaust, wheels, brakes, rotors and windshield would be obvious upgrades.

http://zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23223

The significant but transparent upgrades were:
- Haibeck 500Hp engine package
- Boudreau ZF transmission blueprinting package
- Dynamat and Dynapad insulation wrap of the driver, passenger, trans tunnel and cargo area

I happen to like the seats of the 91 and they fit me just fine. The Dynamat/pad upgrade is a significant improvement in the way of noise and overall comfort. I've looked at and driven many 95's when I was making my choice. I'm very pleased with my decision and glad I held on to my 91. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[GOLDCYLON]

Id keep the 91. The other folks have mentioned the traction control/extra bhp/ extra air bag etc. I add to that the 134A Ac system. Other than that I see no reason to upgrade to a 95. Everything that 95 has from the seats to even the interior if so inclined could be added to the 91 if thats what you want to do. Sounds like you have a great 91 id keep it.

As to build quality I think it honestly went down with cheaper interior componets like the crappy all plastic one piece door skins and the loss of interior matting on the carpet and that crappy deluso interior coating. Well they did add a plastic rainshield for the door yipee. lol

[We Gone]

Not much I can add, use the 15K to start a 2nd ZR-1 fund. I think the 93 will be up with the 95 due to low production #s combined with 405 and .. the 90-93 interior, just like the seats and dash details better. But I would not let that stop me if the right deal came along on a 95.

[Blownrunner]

I like the 2nd zr-1 comment! I hope the values stay low so maybe someday I can afford a second one. BTW, the 91's don't have an EGR system...

[Okiedoke]

Thanks USAZR1 for the comparison points. I've never been in a non-91 car, so it really helps to hear from someone familiar with both years. Definitely some points I've never thought of.


Performance would be close to a wash as even though the 93-95 405hp LT5's are a smidgen more powerful in stock form versus the 90-92 375hp engines,the later cars weigh more which tends to even things out.


I knew about the 30 hp and 15 lb torque difference but didn't realize the later cars weighed more.


Future valuation favors the 95 over your 91 when all else is equal,obviously. There were four times as many 91's produced vs a 95.


Yeah, this one was of the main thoughts...if the 95 increases a lot more over time, it may be better to get in now while prices are still "affordable".


Traction control? After owning both a 90 & 91 before purchasing our 94,I could probably do without that feature.


I'm not familar with the Z's traction control, but is this an area that's easily fixable if it "breaks"? Or would it involve replacing a chip that no one makes anymore?


$15K price difference? I wouldn't do it if I owned a low-mile car like yours,assuming it's in excellent condition or better.

This is the first car I've owned that's over 10 years old and don't have other ZR-1's to compare against, so I don't know quite what to expect in terms of what is normal or to be expected. Overall, the car looks and drives well. There are existing issues I haven't gotten around to fixing yet (rattling in driver's door, sagging headliner, passenger seat tilts back, vibrating heat shield at 3100 RPM, scrapes on the front bumper, a couple of paint chips, intermittent SRC lamp, driver's seat bolster a bit flat and worn, front driver's side targa bolt needs to be tightened after a few drives) and new ones (radio picking up engine noise, intermittent low oil lamp). I assume these are normal for a car of this age? With that said, none of these issues affect the car's drivability or fun factor.

BTW, I really like the color combo of your Z. The red interior really makes it pop.

[Okiedoke]

I could have bought any year but only looked at 1990. It is the least valuable but the most produced


If I'm not mistaken, according to Hagerty, the 1990 is worth more than 91-94. :)

[Okiedoke]

I had a garage queen 91 and looked at the same choice several years ago. I ended up keeping my 91. I took a fraction of what it would have cost me to "step up" into a 95 and put that money into the 91. Each visible change could be returned to stock with the exception of the windshield. To the casual observer the car looks stock. To a ZR-1 guy the exhaust, wheels, brakes, rotors and windshield would be obvious upgrades.

http://zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23223

The significant but transparent upgrades were:
- Haibeck 500Hp engine package
- Boudreau ZF transmission blueprinting package
- Dynamat and Dynapad insulation wrap of the driver, passenger, trans tunnel and cargo area

I happen to like the seats of the 91 and they fit me just fine. The Dynamat/pad upgrade is a significant improvement in the way of noise and overall comfort. I've looked at and driven many 95's when I was making my choice. I'm very pleased with my decision and glad I held on to my 91. Good luck with whatever you decide.

I'm glad you chose to stick with the 91 after comparing both. The 500HP engine package sure sounds tempting...but then I need to start a stock vs not debate with myself ;)

[Okiedoke]

Not much I can add, use the 15K to start a 2nd ZR-1 fund. I think the 93 will be up with the 95 due to low production #s combined with 405 and .. the 90-93 interior, just like the seats and dash details better. But I would not let that stop me if the right deal came along on a 95.

I was thinking of a 2nd one being an "almost ZR1" fund....a 71 or 72 LT-1 coupe. So the ZR-1 would be the go fast car and the "almost" ZR1 for cruising in style. If I take the route of a second ZR-1 fund, then I'd keep the 93-95 Z stock, and be tempted to get the Heibeck 510HP package for the 91. Oh my...where does it all stop? The 650HP package! ;)

[Okiedoke]

I like the 2nd zr-1 comment! I hope the values stay low so maybe someday I can afford a second one. BTW, the 91's don't have an EGR system...

What's an EGR system?

[Okiedoke]

Id keep the 91. The other folks have mentioned the traction control/extra bhp/ extra air bag etc. I add to that the 134A Ac system. Other than that I see no reason to upgrade to a 95. Everything that 95 has from the seats to even the interior if so inclined could be added to the 91 if thats what you want to do. Sounds like you have a great 91 id keep it.


Another factor on the side of keeping the 91 is my 4 year old son. I've gotten him hooked on Corvettes over my past year of Z ownership pointing out Corvettes on the road and going to car shows. He's recently grown heavy enough for a booster seat so we've already gone on a few drives together. He won't let mommy go for a ride in the car and wants me to keep his booster in the passenger seat at all times. He thinks 3rd gear is too quiet and likes it in 2nd gear with the RPMs at 5-6k ;)

[secondchance]

What's an EGR system?

EGR = exhaust gas recirculation. Later cars, upon cold start, routes a part of exhaust gas into the passenger side of the plenum to aid faster warm up and reduce cat heat up time - is my understanding.

[mike100]

EGR = exhaust gas recirculation. Later cars, upon cold start, routes a part of exhaust gas into the passenger side of the plenum to aid faster warm up and reduce cat heat up time - is my understanding.

It actually doesn't work on start-up and when warm, recirculates a puff of dirty exhaust gas back into the intake just at the moment of throttle opening off idle. This is to keep combustion temp down for a brief second as that is the condition that oxides of nitrogen(NOx) are produced. It is not used under WOT and really doesn't hurt performance other than it kind of adds clutter.

If you hook a vacuum gauge to the egr port, you can see when the thing activates. I guess the initial loading of the engine is when the combustion temps spike- that and when running lean with a whole lot of ignition timing.

[secondchance]

Thanks for a detailed explanation.

[mike100]

The 94 and 95's have a number of ergonomic improvements that you wouldn't notice until you have owned one.
-more room on the left foot dead pedal rest (less chance of wear thru on the carpet next to the clutch pedal)
- better contrasting white gauge face ink that older eyes can see in dim conditions.
- the improved display in the gauges that shows coolant and oil temp digitally
- Blue label ZF's that shift nicely
- those sport seats!
- the interior looks more modest and not like you are about to fly a plane.
- smuggling compartments in the door panel arm rests.

Unfortunately, the soft dash and molded door panels are much cheaper and not long lasting like the 90-93 cars- even though I prefer the newer look and fit. All this won't mean too much if you don't buy a driver, but even if i was looking for a regular coupe- it would be a 95 or 96 due to many of the reasons I listed above.

[Okiedoke]

Yes. Thanks for detailed explanation. The amount of knowledge on this forum is incredible and there's so many folks always ready to help right away with all types of questions. I'm really appreciative and have just joined as a member.

[WARP TEN]

I was thinking of a 2nd one being an "almost ZR1" fund....a 71 or 72 LT-1 coupe. So the ZR-1 would be the go fast car and the "almost" ZR1 for cruising in style. If I take the route of a second ZR-1 fund, then I'd keep the 93-95 Z stock, and be tempted to get the Heibeck 510HP package for the 91. Oh my...where does it all stop? The 650HP package! ;)

I went through something like this dilemma when I got my 95. I had a 93 since 1994 and like the limited production aspect of the later cars. Also they are the best developed as later cars. I sold the 93 in 2007 and after regretting it for several years finally decided to get another. I thought about it and decided to try for a fairly late production 95. Search for a year or so and finally came up with WARP TEN, which when I bought it was all stock with 20k miles. I had to pay a much higher price than I would have for a 90 or 91 but it was what I wanted. Then the stock vs mod debate. I had Marc do a number of mods on the 93 and liked them: 4.10s, Hurst, Corsa. So I did those and then since my engine had a somewhat rough finish the next year I decided to do Marc's 510 package. Delighted I did. Also went back to stock exhaust with cutouts.

What I did was save all the take off parts, so with a little work or not too much money a new owner could put the car back to stock appearance for certification if desired. If I wanted to pursue that I would simply give Marc the car and parts and say make it look stock, which he has done a couple of time for others. My car now has about 30k miles and is in very good original condition. If I sold it I would expect a fairly high price (compared to early cars) but a new buyer would get all of Marc's upgrades for about half price or less and all the parts to return it to stock. So in the end it is all about what is important to you. Since it sounds like you already have a good 91, I would just get all those small things fixed and if you are adventurous get a 510 package just for grins. You could send it to Marc for everything over the winter and end up with a beautiful strong running ZR-1 for about what you would have invested for a late model with some minor mods. Good luck! --Bob

[cvette98pacecar]

The main difference to me between my 91 and 95 was the interior. Besides that, not much.

You not counting the added 150 hp?

[Blue Flame Restorations]

hahahaha the 95 is so tame it feels like my Cobalt.

PETE SPOILED ME FOR LIFE

[ZR1North]

I went through something like this dilemma when I got my 95. I had a 93 since 1994 and like the limited production aspect of the later cars. Also they are the best developed as later cars. I sold the 93 in 2007 and after regretting it for several years finally decided to get another. I thought about it and decided to try for a fairly late production 95. Search for a year or so and finally came up with WARP TEN, which when I bought it was all stock with 20k miles. I had to pay a much higher price than I would have for a 90 or 91 but it was what I wanted. Then the stock vs mod debate. I had Marc do a number of mods on the 93 and liked them: 4.10s, Hurst, Corsa. So I did those and then since my engine had a somewhat rough finish the next year I decided to do Marc's 510 package. Delighted I did. Also went back to stock exhaust with cutouts.

What I did was save all the take off parts, so with a little work or not too much money a new owner could put the car back to stock appearance for certification if desired. If I wanted to pursue that I would simply give Marc the car and parts and say make it look stock, which he has done a couple of time for others. My car now has about 30k miles and is in very good original condition. If I sold it I would expect a fairly high price (compared to early cars) but a new buyer would get all of Marc's upgrades for about half price or less and all the parts to return it to stock. So in the end it is all about what is important to you. Since it sounds like you already have a good 91, I would just get all those small things fixed and if you are adventurous get a 510 package just for grins. You could send it to Marc for everything over the winter and end up with a beautiful strong running ZR-1 for about what you would have insted for a late model with some minor mods. Good luck! --Bob

Interesting thread! I pondered the same questions (move to '95; stock vs performance upgrade).

Re the move to later model, I decided to stick with my low-mileage '91 (prefer the 90-93 interior, especially the portion of the console just ahead of the shifter).

Re the stock vs performance upgrade, Bob was kind enough to let me drive WARP TEN last month. Prior to that, I was leaning toward the upgrade; after the run, I fell over completely on the side of Marc's 510 pkg; '91 #666 will be spending the winter of 2015 in Marc's stable. Bob's car is awesome. My biggest surprise was the Hurst shifter; if you like crisp, affirmative shifts, this is a great choice!

Isn't life great when these are the choices we're pondering!

[BigJohn]

Cobalt?

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Cobalt?

Yep, 91 had around 530 hp and basically no mufflers. The 95 is bone stock and as quiet as a summer breeze....

[Johnny5]

Id keep the 91 and get the heibeck 510 package. I have a ported plenum, IH, cat back exhaust and marcs tune. Im already used to the power and want more.

[thirstyzr1]

Keep the 91. I bought a low km 90 and had the opportunity to buy a 95 with a few more km on it from the same dealer. It was a no brainer for me considering the high cost difference. Im only 38 and I will be long dead before these cars see any real increase in resale value.
I would go with the performance mods. Good Luck.