Clutch :-(

[c4koh]

All,

I was out this morning, all good. On the drive back, onto the highway entry, I went from 2nd to third with a powershift, and - boom. It didn't go into third, lots of rattle, and the clutch won't disengage.

Clutch pedal feels normal (perhaps a bit softer), and if I push hard all the way to the bottom, and the engine is off, I can put it in gear (e.g. second), and then start the car, and and it will bump forward to start... so I got the car home. No way of changing gear once in gear and the engine's on, which made the multiple reds a pain! Had to switch engine off, wait for green, put it in gear then start...

Clutch pedal is now "squeaky", and also when the engine is on (in neutral or if engaged), there is a rattling and a high frequency whirr to go with it, clearly something's having fun going round and round...

This is a new clutch (<3 months old, <1000 miles), and was fine until this morning's power-shift. Original clutch cylinders, however.

Any thoughts?

[Franke]

I would guess that possibly the throw out bearing went bad or clutch fork bent.

[LGAFF]

My 92 had the throwout bearing go bad, the sudden rattling is the ball bearings flying around the bell housing.

[c4koh]

Well, whatever it was - something bad happened in there...

Just removed the flywheel inspection plate and a load of clutch pieces fell out... disintegrated somewhat!

http://sdball.com/zr1/photo1.JPG


There's also scoring around the bellhousing:

Driver Side 1:
http://sdball.com/zr1/photo2.JPG

Driver Side 2:
http://sdball.com/zr1/photo3.JPG

Passenger Side:
http://sdball.com/zr1/photo4.JPG

I'd imagine that the flywheel hasn't done any better either...

:-(

[Franke]

Yep. looks like the clutch exploded and punched the bell housing. Bummer.:(

[ZZZZZR1]

All,

I was out this morning, all good. On the drive back, onto the highway entry, I went from 2nd to third with a powershift, and - boom. It didn't go into third, lots of rattle, and the clutch won't disengage.

Clutch pedal feels normal (perhaps a bit softer), and if I push hard all the way to the bottom, and the engine is off, I can put it in gear (e.g. second), and then start the car, and and it will bump forward to start... so I got the car home. No way of changing gear once in gear and the engine's on, which made the multiple reds a pain! Had to switch engine off, wait for green, put it in gear then start...

Clutch pedal is now "squeaky", and also when the engine is on (in neutral or if engaged), there is a rattling and a high frequency whirr to go with it, clearly something's having fun going round and round...

This is a new clutch (<3 months old, <1000 miles), and was fine until this morning's power-shift. Original clutch cylinders, however.

Any thoughts?

My guess is the clutch was a Chinese reproduction?

Those clutches / throw out bearings don't last....

Who did the installation?

:cheers:

David

[ZRXMAX]

Sorry to see that happen to your Z. Now we know why power shifting comes with a steep price on occassion. We also know why an occasional bellhousing is needed now and then. Yours is probably repairable with some heliarc.

[c4koh]

The clutch should have been good - it was supplied from Carolina Clutch, fitted by Vette Doctors - so there should not have been any quality issues in the parts or the labor. It needs to be opened up to see if there is any indication of what may have caused it...

So, I'll need a new clutch (duh!) and probably flywheel. I'd like to go for a lightweight flywheel, less rotating mass basically - any downside to it?

For the bellhousing: yes, probably repairable - actually it could have the grooves likely filled in by something (???), but until it's opened again not sure what to do...

Not the best of days....

[ZZZZZR1]

The clutch should have been good - it was supplied from Carolina Clutch, fitted by Vette Doctors - so there should not have been any quality issues in the parts or the labor. It needs to be opened up to see if there is any indication of what may have caused it...

So, I'll need a new clutch (duh!) and probably flywheel. I'd like to go for a lightweight flywheel, less rotating mass basically - any downside to it?

For the bellhousing: yes, probably repairable - actually it could have the grooves likely filled in by something (???), but until it's opened again not sure what to do...

Not the best of days....

I'd call Jim @ Power Torque Systems

He sells only OEM clutch's and flywheels. But for the money, get a fidanza lightweight flywheel for about $325 shipped.

Downside to the lightweight flywheel, NOISE!! (sounds like a rattle can)

Jim's # is 641-342-7446

As far as powershifting with only 1k miles? You didn't cause it, it is the quality of the clutch / T/O bearing.

:cheers:

David

[WVZR-1]

The clutch should have been good - it was supplied from Carolina Clutch, fitted by Vette Doctors - so there should not have been any quality issues in the parts or the labor. It needs to be opened up to see if there is any indication of what may have caused it...

So, I'll need a new clutch (duh!) and probably flywheel. I'd like to go for a lightweight flywheel, less rotating mass basically - any downside to it?

For the bellhousing: yes, probably repairable - actually it could have the grooves likely filled in by something (???), but until it's opened again not sure what to do...

Not the best of days....

You bought the clutch parts or VD bought and did the install? Would certainly maybe make a difference in the discussion with Carolina Clutch.

[Harvie]

Call RAM Clutches, take out the dual mass flywheel and get a steel flywheel with a dual disk clutch/ pressure plate sys with a new HD throwout bearing.

Those will solve all your problems until torque levels exceed 800 ft lbs.

After looking at the pics you can repair that bell housing with Devcon, it does not need to be welded. I could do either and would just use Devcon because it looks like the structural integrity has not been compromised and both would be permanent OEM approved repairs.

If you want to have the bell housing bead blasted and send it to me (Maryland) I will repair it for you for just the cost of the Devcon. You will have a very hard time telling where it was repaired. I have repaired about 15-20 al bells over the years and have a spare ZR1 bell on the shelf to use as a pattern/mold if need be.

or just do it your self.

If the BH is just scarred or chipped repair it with Devcon titanium and it will last forever. Grind the area about 1 inch around the repairable area wit 24 or harsher disc clean off then apply the Devcon low or as close to level as possible.

One or u can smooth the Devcon right after after applying it by using wd40 and a hard steel or plastic surface to make the repaired surface smooth. Then use a clean rag soaked in wd40 wrapped around your finger and gently tap the top to dimple the surface to make it look factory. Once it goes off and sets it takes 24 grit high speed grinder to remove the stuff. It is a perm repair and harder lighter than al.

[Shrek]

Had the same exact problem 3 weeks ago in my wife's track car (stroked LT4)
She was shifting to fourth on the front stretch at VIR when it came apart.
She shut it down immediately and got a tow back to the paddock with no further damage.
I had just installed it from Carolina Clutch and it lasted just over 200 track miles.
The clutch I removed was an 8 year old Carolina Clutch with thousands of track miles on it.
Tom at CC explained the problem (quality issue), apologized, and took care of a correct replacement disc.
BTW we are running an aluminum Fidanza.


From what I understand, the quality issue pertains to the backing plate.
There needs to be a solid backing plate ring, not just the segmented spring steel shown in the photo of ours below.
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq186/2manyvettes24/96/photo_zps8af2f1bd.jpg

[Fully Vetted]

...Downside to the lightweight flywheel, NOISE!! (sounds like a rattle can)...

Mine is dead quite. Corey waved his magic wand over it and that was it.

[c4koh]

All,

Finally had a chance this weekend to remove everything to have a look. Only the clutch bellhousing bolts got me using some bad words, and I expected as much... the rest was fairly straightforward.

Well, for starters, here is what remains of the clutch disk:

http://www.sdball.com/clutch.jpg

The scoring around the outside of the bellhousing is restricted only to the bottom (as already shown in the earlier picture), and is basically a slim, 1mm slice. I'm going to devcon that up and smooth it off with my dremel.

The flywheel (original dual mass) is pretty spotted, and with various scratches ... as would be expected with that amount of broken clutch and back plate spinning around...

http://www.sdball.com/flywheel.jpg

And the clutch pressure plate also didn't fare much better:

http://www.sdball.com/pplate.jpg

So.........

I spoke with Tom @ Carolina Clutch and explained it, and I'm going to replace the flywheel (OE DM) with the lightweight aluminum FW, and add to that a Stage 2 clutch kit.

Questions:
Can I re-use the existing 8 bolts from the original flywheel with this new flywheel? Reason I ask is that I saw this:

Originally Posted by Hammer
Thanks to all that have posted regarding the flywheel and clutch. I just got flywheel bolts today. Only thing left for the clutch is the speedometer gears. I'll be ordering them from Marc Monday. I'm installing them and the Hurst shifter while the trans is out on March 13th-14th, then the rear gears April 19th or so.

I had to buy a whole bag (25 ea) of the bolts and washers for the flywheel. I'll be putting up a separate post to sell two sets of them. Probably $12 shipped a set.

This will include 8 - 7/16"x20-1 1/4" Grade 8 Bolts and 8 washers.
Marc Haibeck recommends these as the bolts that come with the Fidanza are too short, 1", and the ones that are stock are too long 2". He also stated the washers are too thin also.

This is the only mention of it...

If I hadn't of read that, I wouldn't have even thought about it... I'd just planned to remove, and re-apply with Loctite 262 Red for those 8 bolts... but that statement got me worried!!

The stock bolt for my 1992 is PN# 10085334 which is 7/16" head (why not a metric size??) and being 2 inches long... ???

Also - flywheel balancing? Tom at Carolina advised it, though with a *maybe* ... I see plenty of posts mentioning folks using the Fidanza who didn't balance it at all (this may not be the same as Carolina's Aluminum flywheel - see here http://www.carolinaclutch.com/ShowItem/105093%20Chevrolet%20Lightweight%20Aluminum%20Flyw heel.aspx)

I won't get back to the car until the weekend to take the flywheel off, but Tom mentioned if it's balanced with only a few (1 or 2) weights, then likely I'd be fine using the new FW as-is... but if it has 3 or more, I'd need to balance it...

So - any info on whether I can re-use the 8xFW bolts and new LW FW balancing appreciated...

[Harvie]

1) I would rec you research the differences between steel and al flywheels very carefully. I use a single heavy steel with center force clutch sys currently in the LT5 and will repalce with dd when it fails.. Reason: In my 8.5 bracket car we tried AL and after 3 failures we went back to a heavy steel NON FACED . WE ALWAYS BALANCE ANYTHING THAT SPINS FASTER THEN 4500 RPM. 3 seaons later not one more flywheel failure. We shift at 9200 and have dual discs and the flywheel failures have been 100% eliminated. Ram makes our flywheels currently. Hayes also makes great clutch system for the LT5.

A dual disc system with a bullet proof tob is the current tech for these cars now..Ram or Hayes make the complete systems

You will find that a car with a heavier spinning flywheel vrs a lighter weight faced flywheel will maintain the rpms better when starting and between shifts. The dics will take the beating instead of the crank and thrust bearings, as all clutch systems are designed to accomplish.

2) Also get new higher grade flywheel fastners then even the vendors rec, ARP and Crower make them, these are one of the weak points in all the systems. The vendors default down to grade 8 and it is a cost saving that is not worth the gamble. ALSO GET HIGHER GRADE PRESURE PLATE BOLTS most forget those. My flywheel bolts are grade higher than grade L9 but those L9 (all the way) should do for a small block Chevy and will never fail.

PS I never reuse any high grade fastner after it is torqued (the bolt stretches) and can never give the same strentgh bond. Cheap Ins...

I play around with a 3400 lb cars with 850-900 FT lbs of torque with 1150+ HP to 1400Hp punishing clutches and have learned a few expensive things about clutch systems. Now lets talk about air shifters.....

[Daniel_Mc]

I would not reuse the bolts. See "torque to yield" for me it's cheap insurance to just change the bolts.

Going back in my notes on the Z I installed ARP #230-7303 (had to order 3 packs), the bolts came with the washers needed. Lots of miles later and no issues thus far. BTW the ARP's are torque converter bolts but are what you need.

Best of luck in your repairs!

-Daniel

[Harvie]

I would not reuse the bolts. See "torque to yield" for me it's cheap insurance to just change the bolts.

Going back in my notes on the Z I installed ARP #230-7303 (had to order 3 packs), the bolts came with the washers needed. Lots of miles later and no issues thus far. BTW the ARP's are torque converter bolts but are what you need.

Best of luck in your repairs!

-Daniel

If you would like you may always call ARP and get the product code for the single fastner you need along with THE HARDNED STEEL WASHERS, then call any speed shop or jugs/Smuuit and order just what you need...

OR


The scrounges like me, get the numbers then check the nascar guys or arp bolts.com / ebay, they sell them a whole lot cheaper.

[c4koh]

Harvie, Daniel,

Thanks for this info. The ARP bolts are shorter than the 2 inch bolts that I have, but shorter of course will fit... 3 packs... that's nearly $50 for 8 (or well, 9!) bolts....

[c4koh]

OK, I've used boltdepot before to good use.

Looking at the spec of the ARP Bolts... these:

http://www.boltdepot.com/Product-Details.aspx?product=758

look correct - Grade 8, 7/16"x20 (fine thread) 1.25" ... and way cheaper (even buying 25...)...

[Harvie]

OK, I've used boltdepot before to good use.

Looking at the spec of the ARP Bolts... these:

http://www.boltdepot.com/Product-Details.aspx?product=758

look correct - Grade 8, 7/16"x20 (fine thread) 1.25" ... and way cheaper (even buying 25...)...


Grade 5 or used ones off ebay are even cheaper, after all its only a chevy....:o

You guys are lucky you have those little bitty bolts, just one of my Crower TI rod bolts costs more than all your flywheel and pp bolts combined.

Yup $116 each rod bolt.....that is 2 of those into the about $900 each connecting rod. But they are pretty.

If you do use grade 8, just bookmark this page so when it blows, you have direct link to all the part numbers to get the new stuff....

[WVZR-1]

I would be inclined to call ARP as was suggested rather than just use the mentioned ARP product for converter. You should tell them "flywheel" and it would be good to have flywheel thickness available to pass on to them. Judging from images the ARP product mentioned has a very short shoulder and looses most/some of that with the use of the washer. I would think the desired fastener should have a shoulder that nearly matches the thickness of the flywheel or at least more than that offered by a converter bolt. ARP flywheel bolts do seem to have more shoulder but not near flywheel thickness.

ARP does a 7/16-20 ring gear bolt that is 1.20 under head for Strange rear axles. I'd ask them the details of their 250-3001 product maybe. I don't know that this Summit image is correct but you might look. It's also a 200,000 psi bolt ARP spec.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-250-3001?seid=srese1&gclid=CNuPsMWh5cACFbTm7Aod_UsATA

There should be many sources for satisfactory product but I'd be inclined to use "branded product" from reliable sources. The finish of the bolt should also be considered.

Daniel - If you've got the 9th bolt you might confirm the shoulder length.

[A26B]

FLYWHEEL BOLTS

Cautionary advice: The LT5 crankshaft flywheel hub is blind tapped. Make sure the under head length is not too long or the bolt can "bottom out" before the full clamping force is applied to the flywheel.

Before installing the flywheel, I recommend:
1.cleaning the tapped hole out thoroughly to remove contaminants
2. install the new flywheel bolt by hand until it stops. Do not oil the threads.
3. measure the space under the bolt head/washer & crankshaft insure that the space is at minimum, 0.100" less than the flywheel thickness.
4. Use Loctite 262 or equivalent when installing the flywheel

We stock ARP flywheel bots and sell them by the set of 8. They are properly sized for the 3 different aluminum flywheels that we stock for the LT5. Offhand, I am not sure how our aluminum flywheel flange thickness compares with other brands.

You will note that hardened washers are furnished with the bolts and are recommended for aluminum flywheels.

http://jerrysgaskets.com/store2/root/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=877

PRESSURE PLATE BOLTS

A good read on the subject:
http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8306

[WVZR-1]

FLYWHEEL BOLTS

Cautionary advice: The LT5 crankshaft flywheel hub is blind tapped. Make sure the under head length is not too long or the bolt can "bottom out" before the full clamping force is applied to the flywheel.

Before installing the flywheel, I recommend:
1.cleaning the tapped hole out thoroughly to remove contaminants
2. install the new flywheel bolt by hand until it stops. Do not oil the threads.
3. measure the space under the bolt head/washer & crankshaft insure that the space is at minimum, 0.100" less than the flywheel thickness.
4. Use Loctite 262 or equivalent when installing the flywheel

We stock ARP flywheel bots and sell them by the set of 8. They are properly sized for the 3 different aluminum flywheels that we stock for the LT5. Offhand, I am not sure how our aluminum flywheel flange thickness compares with other brands.

You will note that hardened washers are furnished with the bolts and are recommended for aluminum flywheels.



Jerry,

What is the depth of the bore on the threaded flange on the crankshaft hub? I had never considered the after-market flywheels but I did like the possibilities of the Strange ring gear bolts if I did consider one. Your steel SMF flywheel is how thick at the crankshaft mounting flange?

[c4koh]

Jerry -

Thanks for that advice, appreciated.

There seems to be many opinions on bolts - whether to re-use, or use new, which kinds, lengths and so on... I think I have what I need all sorted in my mind at least :-)

Last but not least - I was planning to loctite red (262) the FW bolts, and loctite blue (242) the pressure plate bolts. I may have messed that up too lol.

Anyway - all good fun, and part of the enjoyment of the ZR1. No pain, no gain, right?

[Daniel_Mc]

c4koh,

The ARP bolts I mentioned are specific for the Fidanza single mass FW. That is why they are shorter.

-Daniel

[A26B]

Jerry,

What is the depth of the bore on the threaded flange on the crankshaft hub?
Effective, threaded depth = 1-5/16" (1.312") on the single crankshaft checked (4 bolt holes checked). I would recommend staying 0.100" off bottom, which still leaves plenty of thread engagement.

I had never considered the after-market flywheels but I did like the possibilities of the Strange ring gear bolts if I did consider one. Your steel SMF flywheel is how thick at the crankshaft mounting flange? I do not have any steel billet flywheels in stock, although we can get them from RAM. Assuming they are dimensionally the same as our aluminum billet flywheels, the thickness of the flange under the bolt/washer is appx 0.387". The flywheel total flange thickness is appx 0.583" thick. The difference is the counterbore depth of the bolt holes (appx 0.196" deep)

If you are referring to the iron SMF I have in the webstore, the flange is 0.432" thick with no counterbore for the bolt hole.

I think another important consideration in comparison of different bolts, i.e. Grade 8 and ARP for example, is the threading method, cut vs rolled. There is a significant difference in fatigue resistance in favor of rolled threads.

[WVZR-1]

I think another important consideration in comparison of different bolts, i.e. Grade 8 and ARP for example, is the threading method, cut vs rolled. There is a significant difference in fatigue resistance in favor of rolled threads.

Yes there's a dramatic difference in threaded integrity "rolled vs. cut". That is often overlooked by many when buying hardware. Curious about the counter-bore in the flywheels. Is there a reason? It seems that many of the ring gear bolts with something near 1" UHL might be a good fit for the thinner thickness at the flange. I would guess only the OD of the washer would be of concern.

Some of the flywheels without the counter-bore then the Strange bolts look like a good choice. The only exception could be is that if the bore of the flywheel is done to only match the major diameter of the rolled threads and NOT the shoulder. You might just try a conventional 7/16-20 bolt with a shoulder and try it for fit.

Bolt choice I guess is dictated by the flywheel choice.

[rkreigh]

OP

I feel your pain, my clutch exploded after 1500 miles on the first burnout and I'm kinda wimpy on my burn out compared to most

about 1/3 of a mcleod disk roached and came off

drove it all the way back from BG that way

the broken burn clutch material stinks like nothing else and it took a long time for that smell to go away

I'm interested in the RAM dual disk, Bob G turned me onto it, and now local folks are stepping up

still has the gear rattle, I'm saving my old dual mass as that rattle is really starting to annoy me more and more

the car has so much power already, the fidanza really isn't worth that much to put up with the "rox anne rox anne, your tranny sounds like gravel rattling in a can"

I've caught more than a few laughs, hey dude, your engine spun a rod bearing

sheesh..........:p

[HIZNHRZ]

Seem like a lot of this going around:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h113/hiznhrz/DCP_1484_zps17a6c817.jpg (http://s62.photobucket.com/user/hiznhrz/media/DCP_1484_zps17a6c817.jpg.html)

Pretty much the same story, less than a handful of 7K RPM shifts on a brand new Carolina Clutch kit and BOOM! I now have a Marc Haibeck RAM push type clutch setup modified for use with my factory dual mass flywheel.

[c4koh]

Seem like a lot of this going around:

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h113/hiznhrz/DCP_1484_zps17a6c817.jpg

... less than a handful of 7K RPM shifts on a brand new Carolina Clutch kit and BOOM! ...

That picture looks like the Stage 1 / Stock (which is what I had) from Carolina Clutch - correct??

Tom @ CC explained that my original dual mass flywheel may not have been damping well enough, due to age and wear, which on a high-rev shift basically can put far too much through the clutch disk, and as can be seen it's a very thin piece of backing plate, and there's no spring dampening any chatter, so I can imagine that it's fairly sensitive... From my "simple" point of view, that Stage 1 clutch seems fairly brittle without any dampening springs... does that make sense?

Given the high revving and high mass of that original DM flywheel, it's done a lot of work over its 61,000 miles and 22 years of service... so if that internal dampening isn't working as well (not that I could hear / feel any issue), perhaps there was just too much deviation from spec, passing too much on to the clutch disk, and boom...

Good to at least write down potential causes for the failure - if anything I've learned poring through the forums, the more we write the better and more useful it is!

So - moral of this story is probably replace that original dual mass flywheel if car is 22 years old & 61K original miles while doing the clutch! Of course, it can be replaced by a new DM flywheel (expensive, and 35-36lb or so), a steel single mass (24lb or so) or lightweight single mass (14-15lb or so)...

And now in hindsight, lots of folks (not just on Corvette sites) discuss changing a dual mass flywheel in tandem with a clutch... hmmmm... perhaps every second change... I wonder....

Anyway, for me, I didn't replace the flywheel through reliance on past experience... on my prior 91 ZR1, I replaced the clutch with a LUK 04-114 in 2004, being then a 13 year old vehicle and 45K miles at that time... had no problems with that setup with the original flywheel remaining... so, I thought, I'd be fine with the same (clutch kit only - retain original flywheel) for my 92...


Anyway, live and learn ...

[HIZNHRZ]

That picture looks like the Stage 1 / Stock (which is what I had) from Carolina Clutch - correct??

Correct!

Tom @ CC explained that my original dual mass flywheel may not have been damping well enough, due to age and wear, which on a high-rev shift basically can put far too much through the clutch disk...

I understand Carolina Clutch's position but in my cause I bought the clutch, pressure plate, throw-out and pilot bearing replacement kit from Carolina Clutch AND installed a new dual mass flywheel at the same time.

I spent a fair amount of time looking at options for replacement clutches and spent an equal amount of time talking with Marc Haibeck. I don't want to speak for Marc but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't know Tom at Carolina Clutch or to find out they have talked to one another on this subject. I listen to Marc at every opportunity talk about ZR-1/LT-5 replacement parts, in general, and clutch replacement hardware specifically. I would encourage anyone, whether you do your own work, or are looking for someone to solve a problem for you, to talk (email is typically best) with Marc Haibeck as well. He does his homework and is very open with what he learns and experiences. You'd be hard pressed to find a better person to work with or a more informed subject matter expert on most anything ZR-1 related.

[c4koh]

I understand Carolina Clutch's position but in my cause I bought the clutch, pressure plate, throw-out and pilot bearing replacement kit from Carolina Clutch AND installed a new dual mass flywheel at the same time.


Well in this case, if there is the same failure with the same stage 1 clutch, even on a new flywheel, then it would be something for Carolina Clutch to look into... I'm sure they will.

On the other hand, Tom was very professional, has helped me out, and as noted I'm going to go with the Stage 2 (needing a new FW for this anyway) with a single mass (lightweight) flywheel (other option being a single mass steel flywheel). My vehicle is pretty much stock, except Marc's chip and better exhaust, and I plan it to stay that way.

Thanks all for their input.

Steve

[5ABI VT]

Was going to start my clutch in the morning. Now the word carolina has me thinking Explosions. :( If I may ask here.. I have the stg2 with alum flywheel. He did have an option for LT1 bolts or something that were the correct length are those good enough or do you guys still reccomend arp or better? I dont mind spending whatever it takes to get the best bolts for the whole setup even if it only makes me feel better about having them. I can order what I need and just tackle the stereo and top end in the meantime.

Ill take some pics in the am. I just looked at a not so great photo and my stg2 clutch disc does look identical to all those photos of exploded ones..:(

[XfireZ51]

Was going to start my clutch in the morning. Now the word carolina has me thinking Explosions. :( If I may ask here.. I have the stg2 with alum flywheel. He did have an option for LT1 bolts or something that were the correct length are those good enough or do you guys still reccomend arp or better? I dont mind spending whatever it takes to get the best bolts for the whole setup even if it only makes me feel better about having them. I can order what I need and just tackle the stereo and top end in the meantime.

Ill take some pics in the am. I just looked at a not so great photo and my stg2 clutch disc does look identical to all those photos of exploded ones..:(

When it comes to keeping a clutch from becoming a buzz saw, a couple of extra bucks is worth it. I used the ARP bolts.

[5ABI VT]

When it comes to keeping a clutch from becoming a buzz saw, a couple of extra bucks is worth it. I used the ARP bolts.

Spoke with Tom over the phone and decided the stg2 disc that I have should work but there is still the possibility to want to break up at high rpms in instances like a down shift and a miss-shift where it would over rev. I did bump my limiter up and I do love the rpms and decided for peace of mind to upgrade. I'm used to the McLeod twin disc in the 93 and actually like it's engagement characteristics so I went with a dual friction disc.

[XfireZ51]

Since I use the Fidanza, I have paired that w the Camaro LT-1 sprung hub disc.
Have not had any issues with it handling 450+ at the wheels. I guess that although I used it to take up some of the rattle from the SMFW, it also helps in absorbing some of the shock when "bangin gears".