C7 Vs Old Blue

[We Gone]

Ok don't flame for this but I could not help it after he taunted me a few times.

Well lets just say I even in 3rd and started going by in 4th this started from a 60mph run. This was a stock C7 . We stopped and talked after, was a very nice guy he was amazed at the LT5. :cheers: It was a great lookin Black on Black.

[BigJohn]

English?

[FU]

You did this in the 91 or 93 ?

[BigJohn]

Old Blue is a 91!

[We Gone]

Old Blue is a 91!

You did this in the 91 or 93 ?

Yes the 91 don't think the 93 would have kept up. He backed out after I was half a car ahead and I can't say I would have run much father anyway to fast to caught at.

[Paul Workman]

Nice KILL! I assume the 91 was your "510" Z, yes? And, what differential gear does the 91 have, if I may ask?

I suspect there will be a couple or so C7s at the local CPCC Corvette Shootout @ the (old) US-41 Dragway a month from now (Sept 28th), and it will be interesting to see how the LT5s compare! Considering the "510" LT5 packages are putting down 430 ish to the wheels, it should make for an interesting contest. A good launch an cutting a good light would just about seal the fate of a stock C7...I would think.

[Z06scentair]

Nice KILL! I assume the 91 was your "510" Z, yes? And, what differential gear does the 91 have, if I may ask?

I suspect there will be a couple or so C7s at the local CPCC Corvette Shootout @ the (old) US-41 Dragway a month from now (Sept 28th), and it will be interesting to see how the LT5s compare! Considering the "510" LT5 packages are putting down 430 ish to the wheels, it should make for an interesting contest. A good launch an cutting a good light would just about seal the fate of a stock C7...I would think.

What few c7's I've seen come across my friend's dyno have put down 430-445 rwhp and 390-400 rwt. They were all automatic cars as well, this will be intresting to compare once he does a couple manuals.

These numbers are sae corrected on Dynojet

[We Gone]

Nice KILL! I assume the 91 was your "510" Z, yes? And, what differential gear does the 91 have, if I may ask?
.[/I]

Paul I have 3.73 gears and it was a running start about 60MPH. I was in 3rd and went about 3/4 the way into 4th. We were on the interstate. It was even thur 3rd than I stated going past him in 4th. I'm sure I would have gone on down the road, but was not the safest place to be running that fast.

[Racinfan83]

I hear that. We have a straight stretch of 6 lane rural freeway north of town here, about 3 miles between exits. Perfect for a little "speed run". I hit it up the on ramp when wife and I were going home from dinner a few nights ago and kept er hammered. Backed out at 135 - traffic is way too unpredictable at that speed..:(
There are a few C7's in our club - haven't ridden in one yet but I wonder if I could take em... LOL :dancing

[8cam]

Man I have got to get down there and go for a ride. I really like the C7 a lot, but upgrading the ZR-1 is really a tempting option too.

[Fully Vetted]

What few c7's I've seen come across my friend's dyno have put down 430-445 rwhp and 390-400 rwt...


I'd guess it would be pretty easy to get to that power level starting out with 460hp at the crank. I'm thinking headers/exhaust and a K&N would probably do it.

[Paul Workman]

I'd guess it would be pretty easy to get to that power level starting out with 460hp at the crank. I'm thinking headers/exhaust and a K&N would probably do it.

Yep. That is what I was thinking too.

[ZR1North]

I ran the C7 for three days at Spring Mtn in May and was blown away. Lot of soul searching in the days that followed about what to do, but I decided to keep ol 91#666 and have her upgraded to 510 over the winter. We are blessed to have these kinds of options, especially when I consider what I had to settle for in a new Camaro back in '75. There are the good old days!

[Hog]

Dont forget the GEN 5 SBC LT1's massive torque, that matches the GEN 4 7.0 427 LS7 engine until 4700rpm.

Also the GEN 4 SBC LS7 and GEN 5 LT1 SBC's use the independently verified and totally manufacturer optional "SAE Certified Power" with SAE J2723. Originally the GM GEn 4 SBC LS7 427 in the C6 ZO6 (and now the 2014+ Z/28 Camaro) was rated at 500hp/475lb/ft torque. Then after "Certified" SAE testing was completed the final spec was 505 sae Certfied hp and 470 lb ft torque.

The GEN V smallblock Chev carries RPO LT1 and is rated at 460 SAE "Certified" horsepower@6000rpm/465lb/ft torque@4600rpm with optional exhaust.
or
455hp at 6000rpm/460 lb/ft torque at 4600rpm with standard exhaust.

I wonder what the LT5 would do with the 2006+ "Certified" spec?



Lingenfelters chassis dyno shows the following
On LPE rollers the Stingrays LT1 put down 416 rwhp and 416rwtq. This car was equipped with the new 7 speed manual transmission.
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb373/Paul_Schermerhorn/LT1dyno.jpg
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb373/Paul_Schermerhorn/LT1dyno.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/Paul_Schermerhorn/media/Cars3/DSC_0532_zps99e6bd9f.jpg.html)

These Direct Injected engines are begging for boost, the GEN 5 C7 ZO6 with its 1.7 L blowers is going to be a beast. 650 horsepower at 6,400 rpm and 650 lb-ft of torque at 3,600 rpm.

A base C7 Vette, doesnt have the looks IMO. You will have top spend some serious cash to make them look decent.
You can always just take a spray bomb of some Plasti-Dip to it though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQJo-gSChFI

[Hog]

What few c7's I've seen come across my friend's dyno have put down 430-445 rwhp and 390-400 rwt. They were all automatic cars as well, this will be intresting to compare once he does a couple manuals.

These numbers are sae corrected on Dynojet
I wonder why there is such a difference between the torque and power output on your buddy's dyno? The LT1 is rated at 455or 460 sae "certified"hp and 460 lb/ft torque.

You think that since the engine power/torque is almost exactly the same, taht the rear wheel numbers would also match, or be close?

Thats the thing with comparing chassis dynos, no 2 are the same.

Maybe it was an automatic thing?


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
OP Nice kill, gotta feel nice.

[Paul Workman]

Some analysis, just for consideration here...

A "typical" ≈ 510hp 5.7L LT5 w/ stock cams

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x220/6PPC_bucket/Dyno%20graphs/DynoLT510-19-10.jpg (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/6PPC_bucket/media/Dyno%20graphs/DynoLT510-19-10.jpg.html)

comparing to the C7 LT1

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x220/6PPC_bucket/Dyno%20graphs/C7LT1dyno_zps72b4c85d.jpg (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/6PPC_bucket/media/Dyno%20graphs/C7LT1dyno_zps72b4c85d.jpg.html)

To make it simpler, I took the liberty of converting the mph to approx rpm (simple proportion assuming torque/power crossover at 5252 rpm @ 118 mph):

MPH Aprox rpm

40 1780
50 2225
60 2671
70 3116
80 3561
90 4006
100 4451
110 4896
120 5341
130 5786
140 6231
150 6676
160 7121

This could explain (again) why the LT5s come into their own on the "big end" of the quarter mile or even half mile contests... Power under the curve!

[Z06scentair]

I wonder why there is such a difference between the torque and power output on your buddy's dyno? The LT1 is rated at 455or 460 sae "certified"hp and 460 lb/ft torque.

You think that since the engine power/torque is almost exactly the same, taht the rear wheel numbers would also match, or be close?

Thats the thing with comparing chassis dynos, no 2 are the same.

Maybe it was an automatic thing?

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
OP Nice kill, gotta feel nice.

Automatic would be my guess....through a manual the torque would be closer to the 420.

Brad

[Hog]

Some analysis, just for consideration here...

A "typical" ≈ 510hp 5.7L LT5 w/ stock cams

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x220/6PPC_bucket/Dyno%20graphs/DynoLT510-19-10.jpg (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/6PPC_bucket/media/Dyno%20graphs/DynoLT510-19-10.jpg.html)

comparing to the C7 LT1

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x220/6PPC_bucket/Dyno%20graphs/C7LT1dyno_zps72b4c85d.jpg (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/6PPC_bucket/media/Dyno%20graphs/C7LT1dyno_zps72b4c85d.jpg.html)

To make it simpler, I took the liberty of converting the mph to approx rpm (simple proportion assuming torque/power crossover at 5252 rpm @ 118 mph):

MPH Aprox rpm

40 1780
50 2225
60 2671
70 3116
80 3561
90 4006
100 4451
110 4896
120 5341
130 5786
140 6231
150 6676
160 7121

This could explain (again) why the LT5s come into their own on the "big end" of the quarter mile or even half mile contests... Power under the curve!

Thanks for doing the MPH/RPM conversions, much easier to compare.
The 510hp packaged LT5 certainly outpowers the stock GEN 5 LT1.
'Power peak of LT1 is 6000rpm, roughly 6700rpm for the modded LT5.

Modded LT5 is down over 25 lb/ft at 2000rpm.

At the torque peaks the LT1 is up 39 lb/ft torque with 416 rwtq at approx. 4700rpm LT5 is 377 rwtq @ 5000rpm. The LT1 does have an extra 26 cubes though.

Another consideration is weight. The C7 Stingray curbs out at 3298 so 3300lbs. The only ZR-1 spec I could find was 3505lbs, with the non-ZR-1 coupes specced at around 3300-3350 lbs.

I will give the GEN 5 6.2l/376cid credit though. The GEN 5 6.2 LT1with 465lb/ft@4600rpm comes within 5 lb/ft torque of the GEN 4 LS7 and its 470 lb/ft torque@4800rpm.

GEN 4 LS7
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb373/Paul_Schermerhorn/Engine/Dyno%20Graph/08ls7curve_zps2cf55a9f.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/Paul_Schermerhorn/media/Engine/Dyno%20Graph/08ls7curve_zps2cf55a9f.jpg.html)


GEN 5 LT1
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb373/Paul_Schermerhorn/Engine/Dyno%20Graph/2014-Corvette-LT1-V8-TorqueHP-630x384_zpsd2f0c6de.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/Paul_Schermerhorn/media/Engine/Dyno%20Graph/2014-Corvette-LT1-V8-TorqueHP-630x384_zpsd2f0c6de.jpg.html)

GEN 3 LS6 vs LS1 vs 90 LT5
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb373/Paul_Schermerhorn/Engine/Dyno%20Graph/ls6_5comp_zpsd367e4bc.gif (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/Paul_Schermerhorn/media/Engine/Dyno%20Graph/ls6_5comp_zpsd367e4bc.gif.html)


The LT5 sure hauls the mail up where the revs are fun, 7 grand sounds like heaven.

[Jim Nolan]

When I had my SGC475 package done AAron did a before and after check on the dyno on the before the hp and torque peaked at about 5300 and started dropping off through 7k. After the hp and torque kept climbing through 6500 and leveled off through 7k but did not drop off.

[mike100]

My philosophy is to go after the low hanging fruit the manufacturer left on the table as a compromise for economy, emissions, insurance against octane mis-fueling, etc. Maybe at the most, a little cam and porting depending.

In the case of the C4 ZR-1, I think they are great as a 440-450 (crankshaft) hp stock displacement car. It is going to get real expensive if you see the vehicle out of this frame of reference and try to make it better than a newer generation.

I like the smooth torque delivery that doesn't just burn off the rear tires as it seems to make the car safer and so long as you realize you are on early 90's braking technology, can be kept withing a reasonable limit. If you want to best the newer cars, you would need a lot more than just a power increase and if you do the math, sometimes buying the newer car makes more sense. I gotta wonder what a 400 cubic inch LT5 runs like though, but not comparing my 91 to other generations, I do enjoy the reasonably modern power level it delivers, but mainly the extended torque curve 4 valves per cylinder brings.

[NVMYRC51]

Well I got to take some rounds at the new NCM Motorsports park in the C7 and I came away VERY impressed with it as a package. These were loaded stock C7's and they are simply brilliant on the track. Not the hardest hitting engine but the combination of handling and braking are possibly the best I have seen in a stock vehicle and even rivaled some race cars I have had the fortune to ride in. I cannot even imagine what the new
ZO6 will be like. I truly was not expecting anywhere near that level of control and refinement. I am sure I could match the power from my Z at considerable expense but I doubt I could ever duplicate that handling/braking at any price. As a point of reference I have lapped in Ferrari F430's, 458's, and a California. In Lambo's I have lapped in the Gallardo. I have also lapped in Johnny O'Connell's series winning Cadillac CTS-V. Of course I have lapped my own 90 ZR-1 and my MX-5 built to spec race but never raced and sold recently. With this said the C7 felt the most planted and confidence inspiring of all of these save the full race CTS-V. So now how to afford a ZO6 on active duty military pay?

[edram454]

the downside of the lt5 is how expensive it is to modify and make serious horsepower. to me serious horsepower is anything over 500 rwhp. You can get any ls1 or ls corvette, dump in a supercharger, make a cam change and see over 500 rwhp easily. thats what i did to my c5 and after 8 grand I was in the big leagues.

Unless you have deep pockets 500 rwhp in a lt5 will not be feasible. I dont want to be the fastest because I know that its all about money at this point. I enjoy the technical marvel of the lt5, the sound and the history. I feel like I am driving a special car and that feeling is well worth the money of a zr1 lt5. also it never fails, every time I take the car out to a muffler shop, a friends house, a gathering.. people take out there cameras and start snapping pictures. that never happened with my c5 as beautiful as it was it was just a dime a dozen c5. I will leave the high horsepower racing to the guys with 415 and 441 cars pushing 650 hp etc...

[rkreigh]

yea, the LSV 390 build cost 36k and puts down 508

but now you can go out an BUY a stroker car for way less than that DONE

still won't keep up with a lightly modded c7 even though the weight is similar.

technology marches on guys.

I still like the way the old ZR-1 looks a bit better, but the Z06 is going to be an animal.

try getting the ZR-1 to 650 ft lbs, gonna take turbos to do it!!

the c7 chassis is pretty sweet too. just wish they would get rid of some of the weight from all the new gizmos

those control units and wiring are all big boxes bolted onto the chassis

when you heft some of that stuff it's amazing how much weight could be saved with a "stripper"

love to build something on a bare c7 chassis and put a kick @$$ body on it

I've seen some old retro transmagorified c3 designs that really looked hot!

aero might suck, but they are gourgeous

I like the new c7 Z06 wide body ok, the base C7 body, not so much

just loosing the "retainer" helps a bunch as does dressing up that flabby butt

corvette has struggled with an attractive rear end design since the Z IMHO

yet to get it quite right

[edram454]

If I had an unlimited budget, how about a Lingenfelter wide body zr1 lt5 nelson racing engine 500 cube LT5 twin turbo at 1200 hp. with money anything is possible. this car would idle down like grandma grocery getter but blister the quarter mile in 9 seconds with top end over 210 mph. If I only had the money........

[edram454]

yea, the LSV 390 build cost 36k and puts down 508

but now you can go out an BUY a stroker car for way less than that DONE

still won't keep up with a lightly modded c7 even though the weight is similar.

technology marches on guys.

I still like the way the old ZR-1 looks a bit better, but the Z06 is going to be an animal.

try getting the ZR-1 to 650 ft lbs, gonna take turbos to do it!!

the c7 chassis is pretty sweet too. just wish they would get rid of some of the weight from all the new gizmos



those control units and wiring are all big boxes bolted onto the chassis

when you heft some of that stuff it's amazing how much weight could be saved with a "stripper"

love to build something on a bare c7 chassis and put a kick @$$ body on it

I've seen some old retro transmagorified c3 designs that really looked hot!

aero might suck, but they are gourgeous

I like the new c7 Z06 wide body ok, the base C7 body, not so much

just loosing the "retainer" helps a bunch as does dressing up that flabby butt

corvette has struggled with an attractive rear end design since the Z IMHO

yet to get it quite right



505 rwph.... thats what I'm talking about... thats real power. congrats on that animal.:-D

[BigJohn]

If I had an unlimited budget, how about a Lingenfelter wide body zr1 lt5 nelson racing engine 500 cube LT5 twin turbo at 1200 hp. with money anything is possible. this car would idle down like grandma grocery getter but blister the quarter mile in 9 seconds with top end over 210 mph. If I only had the money........


And twist your half shafts until they blew apart!!!

:cheers:

[edram454]

And twist your haft shafts until they blew apart!!!

:cheers:

what negativity big john. you dont think there is a fix for that??? just more money. plus, turbo power comes on smooth and tends to break less parts. Just make the half shafts out of a different material or maybe a heat treated material for added strength.. this would not be the first car putting down those kinds of numbers...:p

[BigJohn]

Yep! very smooth!!!!

Cast steel half shafts; like on the Sledgehammer?

I know I tend to blow thing up with much less power!


:cheers: