Oil Filters

[Hammer]

For those that didn't read the oil change notes I posted here's some great news.

Autozone has the Bosch 3401 filters for $5.99. They were in stock too, I bought two and will get more. AND they are black.

[Z Factor]

Sounds like a decent price though I will be sticking with Mobil 1 filters even though they run $9-$10

:cheers:

[Hammer]

Sounds like a decent price though I will be sticking with Mobil 1 filters even though they run $9-$10

:cheers:

Jim, if you read the current edition of the Heart of the Beast, you will see why I chose the Bosch over the Mobil 1. It wasn't money.

[Corvette95]

Yep, the latest issue was great, I use the Mobil 1 and get the valve rattle, I though Mobil 1 was the best , I will be swapping filter this weekend.

[brodykelly]

i got the last 2 3401's at my local autozone for 5.99 also they were covered in dust, and they are indeed black

[tomtom72]

I have no mechanical ability other than being a "back yard" type with no formal trainning so I would just like to pass this along for the fyi file.

I was using the M1-207 filter, the grey ones, and I am using the black ones now, and I'm not real happy with them. It seems to me that the black ones give me a slightly longer period of chain rattle upon start up than the grey ones did.:icon_scra :???:

I'm just wondering if they changed something when they changed colors. That don't make sense to me, or proly anyone else for that matter. Like I said, I'm not a mechanic but we all know the noises our cars make....by heart. Any new sounds get our attention. With the old grey ones it seemed once they primed up from sitting a week I was good to go for all the starts that day....now it just ain't so any longer and the rattle lasts a bit longer????

I'm gonna try a Bosch 3401 today & see if my symptoms persist. If they do I guess my tensioners are out to lunch or is it the right side chain guide???

Thanks
:cheers:
Tom

[Tom]

Maybe yoy just got a filter where the check valve does not seal as tightly and the oil drains out of the filter a little quicker. I also use the Mobil 1's and currently have a black one and don't notice any difference.

[tomtom72]

You are proly right Tom! I think I got two bad ones in a row....makes sense to me as I bought them at the same A/Z store.

I'll just add this as another "shot in the dark". Both of the black M1's did the same symptoms: more & longer rattle time on cold start up, which to me is 5 - 7 days of sitting. A small amount of rattle on hot start ups, again to me is any start the same day after cold start up. And the bonus symptom, my O/P gauge was taking it's sweet time to show pressure on any start up but markedly on cold start....I was starting to think the sender was checking out.

Last week I swapped in a Bosch 3401 and this past Saturday's run the rattle on cold start was back to 3-5 seconds & not too loud and silence on hot starts and my "maybe going bad" sensor suddendly came back from the DNR list. I'm stumped because the grey M1's didn't behave like the new black M1's.:icon_scra


:cheers:
Tom

[evl_twn]

Any specifications on the actual quality of filtration between the two filters? I'd hate to swap out the M1 for something else, just to have worse filtration. If your oil pressure rises faster, there's less restriction through the filter so maybe it doesn't perform as well? I just want the best filter for my Z, so I want good filtration AND less drainback. Thoughts?

[Aurora40]

Thoughts?
My two cents would be that the period of running where there's no oil circulating due to an empty filter having to fill up would be worse for the motor than any minor difference in filtering capability. But that's just a guess...

[tomtom72]

Any specifications on the actual quality of filtration between the two filters? I'd hate to swap out the M1 for something else, just to have worse filtration. If your oil pressure rises faster, there's less restriction through the filter so maybe it doesn't perform as well? I just want the best filter for my Z, so I want good filtration AND less drainback. Thoughts?

evl_twn and Bob have good points. For my $ I'm in the less time to prime camp as to me that's the more destructive event. To the Q about filtration media and the "time to build O/P" and the media's ability to filter I say that the two are not mutually exclusive. What I mean is that you could have a filter media that can go down in the micron scale without being that restrictive to pure liquid flow....on a molecular level I'm thinking. The junk in the oil has to be larger than the oil molecules and the media must be designed with the shape/size/molecular configuration in mind so as to allow liquid flow but trap the junk??? JMHO:redface:

:cheers:
Tom

[Peaven]

My two cents would be that the period of running where there's no oil circulating due to an empty filter having to fill up would be worse for the motor than any minor difference in filtering capability. But that's just a guess...

Agreed....it's why I try to fill up the filter as much as I can before I spin it on...I can usually get about 1/4 qt or so in it and let it soak in the pleats as much as possible before i flip and spin it. Haven't had problems spilling any oil...yet.

[Corvette95]

Peaven, did you ever get the vacuum problem solved with your car?

[Peaven]

Peaven, did you ever get the vacuum problem solved with your car?

Replacing the o2 sensors fixed my drivability problems, so i haven't dug into the vacuum issue yet....it's a minor leak, as the secondary pump only runs in very short bursts every 3-4 seconds, so I haven't elected to pull the plenum yet. As long as she continues to run strong, I'm not fixin' it!:mrgreen:

[Aurora40]

Agreed....it's why I try to fill up the filter as much as I can before I spin it on...I can usually get about 1/4 qt or so in it and let it soak in the pleats as much as possible before i flip and spin it. Haven't had problems spilling any oil...yet.
I'll have to try that. I figured it'd dump all over the place and make a mess.

I'd like to pull the fuel pump fuses and crank it over to get the oil circulating after a change, but the 2ndary pump fuse is under the dash somewhere... :???:

[FU]

Agreed....it's why I try to fill up the filter as much as I can before I spin it on...I can usually get about 1/4 qt or so in it and let it soak in the pleats as much as possible before i flip and spin it. Haven't had problems spilling any oil...yet.

I soak the oil into the filter as well , it wil take a few minutes to soak up.. It's done 2-3 times. No mess. Plus I disconnect the ECM and crank the car for 15-20 second's. Reconnect then start 'er up. This is done on all my vehicle's. Both car's get 10w-30 weight oil and add 1 quart of 15-50 weight racing oil at each oil change.

[Peaven]

I'd like to pull the fuel pump fuses and crank it over to get the oil circulating after a change, but the 2ndary pump fuse is under the dash somewhere... :???:

Not a bad idea Aurora...

[Peaven]

Plus I disconnect the ECM and crank the car for 15-20 second's. Reconnect then start 'er up. This is done on all my vehicle's. Both car's get 10w-30 weight oil and add 1 quart of 15-50 weight racing oil at each oil change.

Better idea, Frank:thumbsup:

Only thing I'd be concerned with is hosing up the ECM somehow, but I take it you've never had any issues doing this....this would almost seem to be a mandatory practice if the car sits for very long.

[FU]

Better idea, Frank:thumbsup:

Only thing I'd be concerned with is hosing up the ECM somehow, but I take it you've never had any issues doing this....this would almost seem to be a mandatory practice if the car sits for very long.

I never had a problem with disconnecting the ECM and cranking it. For some reason both my Z's have a red wire that come's off the positive battery terminal connector and powers the ECM. The red wire has a black quick disconnect about 8" beyond the terminal.

Aurora40....that fuse is under the glove box. The passenger side hush panel has to be removed first. It's not that easy to find.

[Aurora40]

Aurora40....that fuse is under the glove box. The passenger side hush panel has to be removed first. It's not that easy to find.
Yeah, your way sounds a lot easier. :cheers:

[petefias]

If your oil pressure rises faster, there's less restriction through the filter. Thoughts?
Not so.

More restriction through the filter INCREASES oil pressure (with no other changes). To support this claim I offer you two examples:

Power steering system - there is a built in check-valve to provide restriction, without it the pressure is not there. My car validated this when the check valve went south I lost power assist.

High blood pressure - caused by restricted arteries (mainly). Have not had personal experience yet. :)

This is one of those thing that goes against "conventional wisdom".

So it seems I'm switching to Bosch. :)

[Tom]

On a ZR-1, more filter restriction will decrease the oil pressure measured by the oil pressure sensor since it is downstream of the oil filter.

I used to belong to a Corvette club where there was another ZR-1 owner and the time to build oil pressure bothered him so much he took his car to Guldstrand and had them install a pre-luber. With the pre-luber he could already have the oil system pressurized when he started the car. They mounted the pre-luber pump/motor on the bars out in front of the power steering cooler.

[evl_twn]

Well, I think I'm done with the Mobil 1 filters. It has nothing to do with the ZR-1, either. I have a Mobil 1 filter on the Z right now with no problems, no chain rattle even after sitting for several days. BUT- last night I'm changing oil in my truck (2004 Dodge Ram) which I had been using the K&N filter on, but I bought a Mobil 1 when they were on sale a couple weeks ago. I got the old filter off, started threading the Mobil 1 on, and the threads just felt a lot "looser". I usually tighten my filters hand tight, then use a filter wrench to spin them maybe 1/2 turn more, and have never had a problem. I tried that with the M1, and it went about 1/4 turn then popped loose again. Yup, filter threads are stripped. And that was with almost NO tightening torque. I didn't really pay much attention to the threads on the filter I put on the ZR-1, but I think I'm going to go get a couple of the Bosch filters and put them on the shelf. I ran out and got another K&N for the truck though. I'll still use the Mobil 1 oil, but that does it for the filters.

[Tom]

K&N, Mobil 1, STP and Bosch filters at one time were all made by the same company (Champion Labs) to the respective companies requirements. I haven't looked at the current Bosch or STP filters, but the K&N and Mobil 1 filters look like the same filter except for the hex added to the end of the K&N filter.

Also, I had one K&N filter that had threads that were very loose and looked like they had been tapped twice, so now I look at the threads on any filter I plan to buy.

[Z Factor]

Something I forgot to mention earlier regarding Mobil products.

Aside from Mobil 1 providing quality oil and filters, I also support them because they supported the ZR-1 during the early years of its development. They also helped Tommy Morrison break the world record by donating money and product in his effort. They were also instrumental in figuring out how to keep the wheel bearings cool enough to sustain the 24 hours of 180 mph that was needed to break the record.

:cheers:

[ZRXMAX]

They were also instrumental in figuring out how to keep the wheel bearings cool enough to sustain the 24 hours of 180 mph that was needed to break the record.

:cheers:

I am curious... what did they do to keep the wheel bearings from failing ?

[ZR-1 Franz]

Hello from Switzerland,

Read the story about the record run in "The Heart of the Beast" and you will
be well informed about the problems with the wheel bearings at high speeds
they had during the tests for this famous world record.

I wish you a good time

ZR-1 Franz `90 ZR-1 # 982

[guinnessdood]

Got an answer back from Exxon Mobil regarding some testing they did on their M1-207 oil filter for us...

In response to the customer questioning the subject filter performance, I can offer the following comments. There are two avenues of leak back paths in the filter. One is leakage past the rubber anti-drainback valve (check valve) back thru the outer ring of inlet holes in the filter baseplate. Silicone rubber is used for this application and provides the ultimate material for long life in extreme temperature swings. The second path is the area between the baseplate and the sheet metal gasket retaining plate. Our manufacturing process applies a ring of sealant between these two components just prior to the components being spot welded together. Occasionally skips do occur while dispensing the adhesive ring due to air pockets in the pressurized dispensing system. A real world evaluation can only be made using the actual engine application in question, a Corvette with the ZR-1 engine option. We unfortunately do not have one available to test. Unknown conditions within the engine, such as bearing wear, bearing clearances, and pump wear and clearances make it impossible to duplicate the engine characteristics in the lab. To evaluate worst and best case performance, I had a sample filter made with no sealant between the base plate and gasket retaining plate, and a sample filter made with a perfect seal between these two components. The sample filters were actually made on the assembly line using production methods. Our lab, and our competitors, typically test anti-drainback performance using the SAE HS806-2001 test standard. For our testing of the sample filters, we used Mobil 10W30 oil in place of the specified mineral oil. The filter is placed inverted on a stand while an elevated 100 ml graduated glass Burette tube filled with Mobil 1 10W30 oil is "piped" into the filter outlet. Leakage is checked, from both pathways mentioned above, based on per hour time sequence. In the SAE test, the sample with no sealant leaked 470 ml (16 oz.) in one hour. The sample with perfect sealant had zero leakage. The following evaluation was made using the same two filters with non-typical test methods. The filters were flowed at 3 gpm on a test stand using Mobil 10W30 oil for one hour at 250 F. This conditions the internal components of the filter in an environment similar to that found in the engine. The filter was weighed full of oil after being removed from the test stand, the outlet plugged, and the filter was placed inverted (like the filter mounts in the ZR-1 engine) on a ring stand placed over a drip pan. The filter was re-weighed following eight hours and the leakage through the inlet holes (past the anti-drainback valve) was reported. The leakage of the filter with no sealant was 5 grams (0.2 oz.) while leakage of the perfect filter was 0.7 grams (0.02 oz.). The two filter samples were then re-filled, re-weighed, and a 1/8 inch diameter hole was made in the dome of the filter's shell. Repeating the same eight hour test method, the leakage of the worst case filter was 1081.5 grams (38.2 oz.) while leakage of the perfect filter was zero. Design and condition of the engine gallery and effective sealant application between the filter backplate and gasket retaining plate will affect filter drain-back leakage significantly. Any occurances of less than acceptable sealant application in Mobil filters should be considered an exception to the normal level of quality.

[jonszr1]

Ully, awsome post alot of work went into that thanx:thumbsup:

[petefias]

Those who just purchased the Bosch 3401, what does it look like on the open side? I opened the last two boxes on AutoZone's shelf and one had a black plastic valve and 4 holes on the metal around the thread. It looks like it has a spring below the threaded part to hold the paper element in place. The other one had a red plastic valve with about a dozen smaller holes. It didn't have a spring inside. Both were black on the outside and had the 3401 sticker on them. One had a little dent so I only bought one.

Does Bosch has multiple suppliers? Why would be the construction be so different on two filters probably from the same batch of shipment? I think the important part is the filter element shape, size and they both equally capable. Just thougth it was strange...