Oil & Flat Tappets

[tf95ZR1]

I think this is applicable to our engines:

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/corp-0808-worn-down-engines/

[Paul Workman]

Yes, I've experienced a cam that went flat; on a flat tappet SBC, actually. And, here's a link (http://zr1specialist.com/HAT%20Web/articles/Modern%20Motor%20Oil%20and%20the%20LT5%20Engine.pd f)to an article by Marc Haibeck with regard specifically to the LT5 and recommendations for our engines.

In short, Amsoil AMO 10W-40 has the ZDDP levels originally available and spec'ed for the LT5. If not AMO, then something equivalent with ZDDP levels sufficient to support not only our flat tappets, but those long double row chains as well.

P.

[PhillipsLT5]

I think this is applicable to our engines:

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/corp-0808-worn-down-engines/

Article called for AMO 10/40, thats what Marc suggests

[rkreigh]

loads on the lt5 cam buckets are relatively light

with the light valves and relatively small light springs and the LT5 quality harnened parts we don't see too much of the stock stuff going flat

I use the mobile gold top extended with more zddp

but the amsoil stuff is a step up and better

but for sure the slippery stuff helps

[pantera1683]

Article called for AMO 10/40, thats what Marc suggests

How much is the Amsoil AMO 10/40 going for these days?

[We Gone]

How much is the Amsoil AMO 10/40 going for these days?


About $8-10 per quart, small price to pay for piece of mind.

[pantera1683]

Has anyone actually ran into any problems using more common off the shelf oils such as Mobil 1?

[We Gone]

Ran Mobil 1 for the last 11 years in the 91 with no issues, I did change to Amsoil this year after Marc did the upgrades.

[Paul Workman]

Has anyone actually ran into any problems using more common off the shelf oils such as Mobil 1?

When you say MOBIL 1....

C-LINK (http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf)

[WVZR-1]

When you say MOBIL 1....

C-LINK (http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf)

The majority of the Mobil1 product purchased "across the counter" isn't in your "LINK"!

The product most see and I expect use is in the mobil1.us left column either the M1EP, or the next conventional M1, the rest is there also:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Oils.aspx

[Dynomite]

About $8-10 per quart, small price to pay for piece of mind.
I Concur :handshak:

Engine............................................ ...................Transmission................... Differential
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite6/2844c361-c225-4c5b-be61-a3129d0d14b0.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite6/3e33210c-cfc3-44ca-944d-b6022cb1e533.jpg

[Paul Workman]

The majority of the Mobil1 product purchased "across the counter" isn't in your "LINK"!

The product most see and I expect use is in the mobil1.us left column either the M1EP, or the next conventional M1, the rest is there also:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Oils.aspx

Yes, I believe the M1 product most find is there*. But! The point of the link was to illustrate the variety of Mobil 1 products. Simply recommending Mobil 1, or "I only use Mobil 1" is a little ambiguous w/o some clarification, I recon.

*But to your point, the third one down on the second page, one finds the M1 10/30 API SN. It seems if there is only one Mobil 1 product on the shelf, that is likely the one, I find. It "meets or exceeds requirements of all new car manufactures..." blah, blah, blah. Don't believe me? Check it out - you'll see.

I don't have to read about cam failure and lobes going flat: I have first-hand experience. I can't prove it was the low ZDDP content that caused the failure, but M1 and others have products with higher levels of the "good stuff" and specifically call out the fact it is intended for or suitable for flat tappet motors.

So, the thing I hope readers take away is the fact there ARE differences - even among Mobil 1 products, and there ARE products more suitable than others perhaps for the LT5, and it behooves one to know the difference and understand the importance, and to seek it out especially since the difference in cost is NOT the reason not to! Are there examples of LT5s that have survived on 800/900 ppm stuff almost exclusively? Yep. Does that mean it is OK for MY motor? Nope. Why not? Because oils with levels of phosphorous/zinc in the vicinity of 1200-1300 ppm were specified at the time the motor was in production. YMMV.

[LGAFF]

How many miles on the cam failure Paul?

[Paul Workman]

How many miles on the cam failure Paul?

We don't know the exact miles, cuz the car came with that camshaft* installed. But, it was in the middle of the third driving season - probably under 6000 miles with her behind the wheel - when it suddenly began to loose power, and a couple outings after that, and it was done. (Had to be flat-bedded home).

*L46 motor (350/350) with hydraulic lifters, 4.11 diff gear, 4-speed M21 trans.

[LGAFF]

http://www.cranecams.com/pdf-tech-tips/cam_failure811.pdf

[LGAFF]

I run the 15-50W Mobile One

[pantera1683]

I run the 15-50W Mobile One

This is what I'm using for the summer. I use 0w40 in the winter.

[Jim Nolan]

I went with Mobil 15-50, years ago, on Aaron's recommendation when he did my porting. If you read the label on the 15-50 it says for high performance engines and contains anti-wear (zinc). Plus at Wal-mart you can buy it in 5 qt. jugs for $25 and change.

[Hog]

Hearing of cam failures on the LT5 with its lower OHC loading kinda freaks me out considering the old school SBC I have in the garage. Heck 1957 was the 2nd year of having an oil filter at all. Recommended oil change is every 2000 miles and a new canister type filter change every 6000 miles.

Plus I run a conventional oil as well. I need to do some research.

[Dynomite]

Hearing of cam failures on the LT5 with its lower OHC loading. I need to do some research.
Just run Amsoil 10w40 and be done with it. Get it delivered to your door ;)

I do what Marc Haibeck tells me to do except I kind of like a quicker oli filter drain back before removing oil filter (Mobile M1-207). I do not notice any lag in oil pressure on start up :D

[Hog]

Just run Amsoil 10w40 and be done with it. Get it delivered to your door ;)

I do what Marc Haibeck tells me to do except I kind of like a quicker oli filter drain back before removing oil filter (Mobile M1-207). I do not notice any lag in oil pressure on start up :D

Even in the 3rd year of the SBC, the 1st year of the 283 isnt the "tightest" of sealed engines? ANy issues with the rope main seals?

Certainly something to consider. Thanks.

Amsoil is available on the shelf here at Canadian Tire, $21.00 a liter(quart).

[Mystic ZR-1]

10w40, 15w50 etc...
How come GM said 10w30?

[Jim Nolan]

I don't recommend any oil. That is a personal choice based on info. available. I can tell you when I bought mine in '98 it had cam chain rattle about 1 in every 4 starts. I suspect it had dino oil all it's life. By the second oil change of Mobil 1 it went away and I haven't heard the rattle since. I don't think it was so much Mobil 1 as it was a synthetic over dino oil. As for why GM recommending 10w-30w. I'm sure there are alot of opinions on that, so I won't go there.

Jim

[Paul Workman]

10w40, 15w50 etc...
How come GM said 10w30?

At the time the LT5 was introduced, phosphorus and zinc in the API SG and later the SH was 1200/1300 respectively (C-link (http://zr1specialist.com/HAT%20Web/articles/Modern%20Motor%20Oil%20and%20the%20LT5%20Engine.pd f)).

If there is a synthetic 10/30 with the phos./zinc at the 1200/1300 levels, then it might rise to the top of the recommendation list for today's LT5 oils However, shopping around, there doesn't appear to be a 10/30 that does, or if there is, it isn't exactly advertised very aggressively, apparently.

So, reasonable substitutes are the AMO 10/40 (the 10W... part is the key with regard to cold viscosity) with 1200/1300 and Mobil 1 15/50 also has the same ppm of the good stuff. And too, the Mobil 1 High Mileage 10/30 comes close and might be fine too (and is what I bought for Jim and Nancy's car when the oil filter sprung a leak on the Mountain Run.)

Since I don't drive much in winter due to the salt, 10/40 is fine for summer, I recon. And, when I buy it by the case, the price for AMO 10/40 gets down around $7/qt, changed every-other year (under 5000 miles as a rule).

P.

[Gunny]

in reply to Paul w/reference to Marc

I also use Amsoil 10-40 ... in my part of Georgia it's always warm or hot with some rare cold spells so 10-40 works well. Similar to Paul, I change oil every 24 months with at least 2, if not 3 filter changes in between oil changes and topping up as necessary. I suspect the Mobil 1 High Mileage 10-30 is probably OK for most applications but would really like a "go ahead" recommendation from Marc and the other engine builders. With a "thumbs up" for the M1 high mileage 10-30 I would probably go back to that simply because it's readily available at WallyWorld.

[secondchance]

I have been using off the shelf Mobil 1 since I bought the car in 2000. Of course we have gone through a few generational change of Mobil 1 which I was not aware of 'till about 2-3 years ago (at the time I had about 110,000 miles). For the last 2 years I added 1/2 bottle of ZDDP until about a year ago, switched to Mobil 1 for high mileage cars.
For what it's worth, cams and flat tappets were all in excellent shape after 140,000 miles. General consensus I have been hearing is that LT5 with relatively short lift and less spring pressure is less susceptible to cam wear compared to high performance OHV V8s.

[Paul Workman]

*...General consensus I have been hearing is that LT5 with relatively short lift and less spring pressure is less susceptible to cam wear compared to high performance OHV V8s.

YES, and less valve weight too. But on the other side of the ledger is the fact pushrod motors are rev limited substantially lower than the LT5, and cam chains are significantly longer on the LT5 than the average single cam pushrod motor.

That said, a while back there was a survey to see how many had ever hit their rev limiter. I was astounded by the number of replies that not only never hit the rev limiter, but putted the LT5 around below 6000 rpm! :jawdrop: I suppose Johnson & Johnson BABY OIL would work just fine in that case! AND, they run the risk of their man card being permanently revoked up here in FBI country!!:p (Just kidding).

[We Gone]

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf