Novel feature on a new Dodge Challenger!

[KILLSHOTS]

I was just reading an article on the all-new 600-plus horsepower 2015 Dodge Challenger Hellcat, and found this...

"Interestingly, the Challenger SRT Hellcat gets two individual keys: One in black for reduced output and another red one to unleash the full 600-plus-horsepower output...valet mode for both variants that, among other things, limits power..."

WOW! Imagine: an automaker using a key-based system to provide 2 distinct engine output levels, so you'll feel safe leaving your high-horsepower car with a lot attendant. Clever bastards! What will they think of next? =D>

[Paul Workman]

I was just reading an article on the all-new 600-plus horsepower 2015 Dodge Challenger Hellcat, and found this...

"Interestingly, the Challenger SRT Hellcat gets two individual keys: One in black for reduced output and another red one to unleash the full 600-plus-horsepower output...valet mode for both variants that, among other things, limits power..."

WOW! Imagine: an automaker using a key-based system to provide 2 distinct engine output levels, so you'll feel safe leaving your high-horsepower car with a lot attendant. Clever bastards! What will they think of next? =D>

Sheeeiiiiitttt.... Looks like I'll be moving my 427 mod schedule up a bit...

[Racinfan83]

Yeah I bet that will be one BAD ride..... :dancing

Wife has the 375hp Hemi in her 300C and that thing is pretty quick. Can't imagine another 225 in a lighter car.. Of course I can't imagine that much in one of these Vettes either :o

[Karl]

I though about that when I read the article earlier today.

Is the ZR-1 the first car produced by any manufacture to have a valet key to limit engine output?

[KILLSHOTS]

I though about that when I read the article earlier today.

Is the ZR-1 the first car produced by any manufacture to have a valet key to limit engine output?
Don't know for sure, but I do remember that feature - among many others - being spoken about by all the rags as revolutionary at the time of the Z's intro.

[Tyler Townsley]

The car will have 707 'certified' HP.

Tyler

[LGAFF]

How much will it weigh?

[Fully Vetted]

It's still going to be a pig. Those things weigh over 4000 lbs. with the Hemi. Nice looking pigs but they need to seriously go on a diet.

[Fully Vetted]

Don't know for sure, but I do remember that feature - among many others - being spoken about by all the rags as revolutionary at the time of the Z's intro.


The last Boss 302 (2012?) also had two separate keys. I think they were red and black.

[LGAFF]

Shelby Cobra GT500 662hp.....11.8 @125

Thats alot of HP to just be breaking into the 11s

ZL1....

At the dragstrip, the 4405-pound Camaro ZL1 convertible automatic hit 60 mph in 4.1 seconds and finished the quarter mile in 12.5 seconds at 114.3 mph. In comparison, the 354-pound-lighter ZL1 coupe with a six-speed manual sprinted to 60 mph in 3.8 seconds and finished the quarter mile in 12.1 seconds at 117.4 mph.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/convertibles/1312_2014_chevrolet_camaro_zl1_convertible_first_t est/#ixzz32JbLKWXN

[Tyler Townsley]

10.6 in quarter and 207 MPH in testing.

Tyler

[Kevin]

The last Boss 302 (2012?) also had two separate keys. I think they were red and black.

they were

[USAZR1]

Holy Crap,a 4400 pound Camaro!!:rolleyes:

[8cam]

A Bugatti Veyron also has two keys but instead of just power, the little key enables "top speed mode" which does all kinds of interesting things. When I flip the power key I just pretend I'm going into top speed mode.

But seriously, that's HUGE horsepower for a production car. FWIW the new Camaro Z/28 is a relative bargain for what you get, but if it's power you're after then the hp wars are really kicking it up a notch - ZL1, GT500 and now the Hellcat. Building a 700hp LT5 will cost you the car plus the purchase price again...these new muscle cars are pretty damn amazing for the price.

[Hog]

Yes the Z/28 is the last car to have that beauty LS7 427 cube engine. Get em while you can.

Z/28 gets you 505hp/481 lb/ft torque SAE "Certified" for $75,700
ZL1 gets you 580hp/556 lb/ft for $56,225. I then built my own with all available options and got the price up to $74,000 for the ZL-1 coupe(including the $6,700 brake options-but didnt click for the $1,400 auto trans option) Chev declares 0-60 in 3.9 seconds, nothing to sneeze at, they declare 3.8 seconds for the Vette Stingray.

In the Veyron, once the car is in "top speed mode" which requires a stop, if you turn the steering wheel over so many degrees, "top speed mode" is exitted.

There certainly are a multitude of ways to spend money.

[Fully Vetted]

I'm very interested to see the direction of the all new Mustang. The coyote engine is one hell of an engine. And now you can order the new 'Stang with line lock. But, until then, I'll take a new Z/28...

[Bob Eyres]

Yikes! How did did the Camaro pick up a half TON of weight?

All these fabulous H.P. numbers are well and good, but if they don't translate into street performance, so what?
Maybe I'm just not a fan of superchargers because I don't have one. but I'm unimpressed at some of these numbers:

Camaro ZL1 -six speed coupe =12.1@117.4mph

Gee, that looks familiar....oh yeah, I've done that in a twenty year old, naturally aspirated, stock 350c.i. motor, ZR-1. :dancing

BTW, about that "power key". I thought it was lame on the ZR-1, and it's still lame.

[8cam]

BTW, about that "power key". I thought it was lame on the ZR-1, and it's still lame.

On a car like the ZR-1 that I would NEVER valet, yeah it's lame. But having a valet function is nice. My wife's car has a valet key that easily separates from the main ignition key, and we use that all the time. It allows us to take our full keyring with us and leave only the ignition with the valet. It also means they can't unlock the trunk or glovebox.

The Challenger will be available with an automatic, so anyone could drive it and it's very valet-able. I think I'd like the idea of keeping the stupid away by chopping off the power and other things like locking the trunk and glovebox.

[Paul Workman]

Yikes! How did did the Camaro pick up a half TON of weight?

All these fabulous H.P. numbers are well and good, but if they don't translate into street performance, so what?
Maybe I'm just not a fan of superchargers because I don't have one. but I'm unimpressed at some of these numbers:

Camaro ZL1 -six speed coupe =12.1@117.4mph

Gee, that looks familiar....oh yeah, I've done that in a twenty year old, naturally aspirated, stock 350c.i. motor, ZR-1. :dancing

BTW, about that "power key". I thought it was lame on the ZR-1, and it's still lame.

I believe it was at the 2008 Bowling Green Gathering when I saw Dave McLellan detailing the coming about of the "FULL POWER" key. As some may not know, it had NOTHING to do with Vallets or the like. NOISE qualification testing in California was the concern.

According to Dave, the Corvette engineering knew the CHP (who drove the cars during the drive-by test) would be doing the drive-by test at WOT - at some point. The ZR-1 would not pass the test simulation at GM, which posed a problem because several other states followed California's lead on such tests.

Someone came up with the idea of the power switch that would lock out the secondary port throttles; calling it "normal". The idea was pitched to the CHP was that "nobody" in their right mind would use the full power in traffic! (Gotta remember 375 hp was over 125+ more than most of the contemporary sports cars at that time.) The CHP bought it, and so the "NORMAL, FULL POWER" switch was born. It was the press and marketing that came up with the various names/purposes of the switch - as they tend to do. But, at the root was passing the noise drive-by test imposed by California that would cascade down to other states as well, and NOT worrying about a Vallet taking a joy ride - although it was a plausible reason.

[Bob Eyres]

4Cam, Paul - Good points guys. I stand corrected.

That story about McLellan was one I'd never heard, cool.

[XfireZ51]

If you watch this vid, you'll see that a message on the display of the Hellcat
saying "Red Key In Use"
Nasty sounding exhaust too.
http://youtu.be/7r1bOZd7T8Q

[Bob Eyres]

Sounds great. In fact, it may be the nastiest sounding "factory" exhaust I've heard.
I'm not a Mopar guy, but that's a real 21st century muscle car.


I'l take mine in matte, (hot rod), black.:)

[weldbead]

the key is a way to switch the secondary throttle system on/off..,but the system itself is just there to produce baloney numbers for the epa, right? an expensive failureprone box of parts that impedes airflow ? or have i missed something?isnt the secondary system another trick like the AIR system which the engine would be better off without?

[Hog]

the key is a way to switch the secondary throttle system on/off..,but the system itself is just there to produce baloney numbers for the epa, right? an expensive failureprone box of parts that impedes airflow ? or have i missed something?isnt the secondary system another trick like the AIR system which the engine would be better off without?
The key may be there to play with EPA numbers, but the Port Throttles are there retain low rpm torque as well as to provide excellent high rpm power numbers.
Graham has posted dyno printouts with both the Port Throttles Open and Closed. Marked difference. The LT5 system is akin to the effects that variable cam phasing accomplishes in the GEN 4/5 SBC. Just remember that the LT5 is 80's technology and at the time the Port Throttle and moreso the dual injector/cylinder logic and ECM calibration were technological breakthroughs in engine management.

[weldbead]

thank you hog i didnt know about the low end torque advantage

[efnfast]

Anybody got a link to Graham's dyno sheet's? I also didn't know that yanking the secondaries would impact torque.

[Paul Workman]

Anybody got a link to Graham's dyno sheet's? I also didn't know that yanking the secondaries would impact torque.

I saw those sheets - some time ago, but a couple things struck me:

Most of the difference was at relatively low rpm and load. However, you don't have to be very deep into the throttle or rmp and the secondaries open anyway - mitigating any low-end torque advantage when they do open.

And, for a fully-ported LT5 the WOT low end torque is substantially above stock.

Case in point, my stock LT5 vs. after the "500" package (sans secondaries) was in effect:

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x220/6PPC_bucket/Dyno%20graphs/Dynographs_zps723fdad7.jpg (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/6PPC_bucket/media/Dyno%20graphs/Dynographs_zps723fdad7.jpg.html)

Some commented on this during the recent Mountain Run.

[Hog]

Anybody got a link to Graham's dyno sheet's? I also didn't know that yanking the secondaries would impact torque.

Here is the dyno sheet that Graham Behan posted in reference to the action of the Port Throttles being open for a run and closed for another.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb373/Paul_Schermerhorn/portthrottles_zpsa2a0f9f3.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/Paul_Schermerhorn/media/portthrottles_zpsa2a0f9f3.jpg.html)

From this thread.
http://zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19823
You can see the torque advantage of 30 lb/ft at 2600rpm for the closed Port throttles, but at just 4500rpm, the Closed Port Throttles give up roughly 45hp at 4500rpm to the open Port Throttles. At this same 4500rpm, the CLosed Port Throttles are all done and power falls off abruptly after than as airflow is choked off It should be noted that the low rpm torque difference between the Open vs. Closed Port throttles would increase if the dyno run was started at a lower rpm.

The Open Port throttles continue to build another roughly 125hp from 4500rpm to their peak of 469hp at 6600rpm or so.

All totalled the Open Port Throttles are worth an extra 160hp vs the Closed Port Throttles.(469 vs 309hp) and an extra 428 lb/ft of torque (417 lb/ft vs 389 lb/ft) when the entire vastness of the LT5 rpm range is considered..



The 1992-1995 Vortec 4.3 V6 that was used in the Highride ZR2 and S-10 SS and others that had engine VIN "W", used a variable geometry intake manifold, where there was a plate that blocked off part of the intake to promote low rpm torque without sacrificing upper rpm power. There is a parameter in the ECM calibration that uses engine RPM to activate the mechanics of the intake.