FS: 1991 ZR-1 Blk/Red only 4800 miles!!!

[Raging Bull]

Hi everyone. Iam looking to sell my 1991 ZR-1 Corvette. Only 2 registered owners. It has traveled a total of 4800 miles!! This ZR-1 is in pristine condition. The car has beautiful black paint complimented with a gorgeous red leather interior. Absolutely no mods. It is totally original. I have all original documentation and window sticker. Also included is the original pizza box. Iam asking $35k obo. Car is located in Long Island, NY. Please feel free to ask me any questions. You can also contact me at 516-790-7151. Thanks

[Raging Bull]

more pics.....

[Raging Bull]

pics...

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Outstanding!

[We Gone]

Nice GLWS.

[XfireZ51]

Pretty car!

[JimZRyd]

Red has GOT to be the BEST color to wrap a gorgeous black ZR-1 around! GLWS! If only I was in the market. One day!

[Raging Bull]

Thanks for the positive feedback guys. The black and red combination really compliments each other well.

[cvette98pacecar]

Red has GOT to be the BEST color to wrap a gorgeous black ZR-1 around! GLWS! If only I was in the market. One day!

Jim, I cant agree with you more.

[Hog]

Beauty!

[Johnny5]

I wish I could spend that much, I'm lookinf for a ZR1 for around $20,000

[902066]

Beautiful car, good luck with sale. 4800 miles completely stock, like new. That's exactly what my 90 ZR-1 was like in 2,000 when I paid $35,000 for it.

[Raging Bull]

Bump. Still for sale

[Raging Bull]

Putting her back on the market. If any one is interested in a super clean Zr1 don’t hesitate for this one.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Outstanding!
:cheers:
Marty

[lfalzarano]

That’s my favorite color combo. Don’t settle for less!


Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)

[BlackSheepz]

LOVE the color Combo! Wish I had the money or space, GLWS!

[Johnny5]

That’s my favorite color combo. Don’t settle for less!


Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)

It's beautiful don't get me wrong but Admiral Blue is the best C4 cover like Electron Blue is best for C5 or Spiral Grey metallic

I have a friend whom i show these cars to and he said he would only buy a White ZR1 with Red interior. I believe that is the rarest

[USAFPILOT]

I wish I had room for another

[Raging Bull]

Thanks everyone for the comments. New price $32,000

[Norwegianmopar]

Interested in a trade?

[Raging Bull]

Beautiful car!! Unfortunately have no room. Thanks for the offer

[Raging Bull]

New low price....$28,900.00!! This car is a steal at this price.

[Raging Bull]

Tried to change the price in description as well. If someone could help me with that. Thanks

[rossgn49u]

This car reminds me of the early 60s Chevrolets. Black with red guts was the hot color for performance cars. Still looks good 50 years later.

[Atari_Prime]

Beautiful car. But I think the price is going to be an issue. Can you show where any 91' Zr-1s have sold near that price the last 5 years?

[lfalzarano]

Beautiful car. But I think the price is going to be an issue. Can you show where any 91' Zr-1s have sold near that price the last 5 years?



It’s what the market will bear, not what they sold during a recession or good times. The right buyer will come along. Negative pricing comments on pricing is not appropriate, because you haven’t inspected the car. JMHO


Lou

[Atari_Prime]

It’s what the market will bear, not what they sold during a recession or good times. The right buyer will come along. Negative pricing comments on pricing is not appropriate, because you haven’t inspected the car. JMHO


Lou


Not trying to be negative. Trying to pose a real question. If the market is that price, great. Just looking for any information that can confirm that is the market.


If it's not market, how does the price help the seller?

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Now, the moment this post is added, many will feel compelled to pooh-pooh it.
They will cite all of their sources, facts, auction results, what they heard somewhere, etc. in a quest to say it isn't so, but let them have at it.
They are entitled to their opinion.
However, I would ask each potential campfire pee-er to document how many copies of "their" price opinion are published, and where the information is obtained to support their opinion.



There is a book.
It is called the Black Book CPI ( Cars of Particular Interest ) Collectable Vehicle Value Guide.


While books do not buy cars, this is a respected guide of "Retail Prices" of Collector Cars that has been around for a long, long time.


A 1991 ZR-1 Coupe has the following values according to CPI:


Fair $ 9,650.00
Good $18,500.00
Excellent $31,000.00


Without a doubt, a black with red 4800 mile car as pictured is far closer to excellent than most all others.


Will this car sell at that price?
Quite possibly, if the seller takes the time and effort required to find the right buyer at that price, which can take 1 year or more.
Many sellers fail to do the above for a multitude of reasons, and there is nothing wrong with that.
:cheers:
Marty

[TX '90 ZR1]

Now, the moment this post is added, many will feel compelled to pooh-pooh it.
They will cite all of their sources, facts, auction results, what they heard somewhere, etc. in a quest to say it isn't so, but let them have at it.
They are entitled to their opinion.
However, I would ask each potential campfire pee-er to document how many copies of "their" price opinion are published, and where the information is obtained to support their opinion.



There is a book.
It is called the Black Book CPI ( Cars of Particular Interest ) Collectable Vehicle Value Guide.


While books do not buy cars, this is a respected guide of "Retail Prices" of Collector Cars that has been around for a long, long time.


A 1991 ZR-1 Coupe has the following values according to CPI:


Fair $ 9,650.00
Good $18,500.00
Excellent $31,000.00


Without a doubt, a black with red 4800 mile car as pictured is far closer to excellent than most all others.


Will this car sell at that price?
Quite possibly, if the seller takes the time and effort required to find the right buyer at that price, which can take 1 year or more.
Many sellers fail to do the above for a multitude of reasons, and there is nothing wrong with that.
:cheers:
Marty

Marty,
I have been inclined several times to weigh in on this subject. Have been hesitant, but since you opened "the can of worms".
I have purchased 1,000's of vehicles over the course of my career. Of course, I did not personally inspect each and everyone. I did purchase them from someone I trusted and they knew if they tried to put one over on me it would be the last time. I also had trusted people that checked out vehicles that were not from one of the trusted suppliers. These were late model vehicles generally less than a few years old.
Now to the subject vehicles. C4 Corvette ZR-1's.
This requires a totally different buying strategy. The newest of these is over 20 years old. There are so many variables in the purchase, that I argue it is impossible to even give a close estimate of value just by looking at a few pictures and description supplied by the seller.
For grins, let's say we have a 30K example that has been lovingly cared for. Sitting next to it is an identical 30K example that has not received the attention it should have over its 20 plus years of life. Both are shiny and nice looking in the pictures. On the first example, it has lived in a favorable climate and everything works as expected. On the second example, it has been in a harsh enviornment and a few things are not working. There can be a vast difference in value of these two otherwise identical cars.
It is very easy to drop several thousand dollars on a car like the second example, and chances are it will still not be the quality of the first one. The only way, in my opinion, to place a value is to put "eyes on" if you are knowledgeable enough or have a very trusted knowledgeable person check it out. This is not a 15 minute job. It can take more than a single inspection as well.
To sum this up, I don't think we should be offering opinions on values if we have not met the criteria of doing due diligence to determine it.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Opinion noted.
However, the question that I answered had to do with the Market Value of a 1991 Corvette ZR-1.
I cited the source of that number.
I did not place a "value" in my opinion on the car, but conveyed the book value or retail value of such a car, in such condition as suggested by that source.
While everything you said may or may not be true, it does not change the representation of the retail value range of a 1991 Corvette ZR-1 as of July 2018, according to the source cited.
Should you wish to express an opinion on the condition, i.e. fair, good or excellent, of that particular car, you are also welcome to do so.
I stand by my statement of a car that meets the definition of a Retail Price which would convey one that has been properly inspected, tested and prepared for a retail sale of a 4500 mile car.
:cheers:

Marty

[George Maz]

I know the owner. He's owned and sold several mint ultra low mileage ZR-1's. He's a big fan of the corvette & the ZR-1 and co-owns a performance corvette shop, so all his cars are well sorted, no expense spared, properly stored and maintained.
If your in the market for investment grade car or just willing to spend for a nearly new perfect condition ZR-1...you might want to go see the car in person, meet the caretaker.
Car is sexy, great color combination.

At that price, you're basically paying the storage & maintenance for 28 years...getting the car for free, no?

[TX '90 ZR1]

Opinion noted.
However, the question that I answered had to do with the Market Value of a 1991 Corvette ZR-1.
I cited the source of that number.
I did not place a "value" in my opinion on the car, but conveyed the book value or retail value of such a car, in such condition as suggested by that source.
While everything you said may or may not be true, it does not change the representation of the retail value range of a 1991 Corvette ZR-1 as of July 2018, according to the source cited.
Should you wish to express an opinion on the condition, i.e. fair, good or excellent, of that particular car, you are also welcome to do so.
I stand by my statement of a car that meets the definition of a Retail Price which would convey one that has been properly inspected, tested and prepared for a retail sale of a 4500 mile car.
:cheers:

Marty

Marty,
I was not disagreeing with your post. In fact, I totally agree with it. My post was more directed at the one or two line responses we see that most times state that a car is not priced realistically without the poster actually having any knowledge of the specific vehicle other than seeing a few pictures and sellers supplied discription.
I agree the source you mentioned is a good guide as a starting point to determine value.
Sorry if you took it to be pointed in your direction, which is not what was intended. :cheers:

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Marty,
I was not disagreeing with your post. In fact, I totally agree with it. My post was more directed at the one or two line responses we see that most times state that a car is not priced realistically without the poster actually having any knowledge of the specific vehicle other than seeing a few pictures and sellers supplied discription.
I agree the source you mentioned is a good guide as a starting point to determine value.
Sorry if you took it to be pointed in your direction, which is not what was intended. :cheers:


Kenny,
After re-reading your post, I conclude that we are indeed on the same page.
My apologies as well, although likely, neither yours or mine are needed.
I often cringe at the same comments as you, that unrealistically suck the value out of these cars, without merit.
A p.o.s. ZR-1 is worth 9k.
A perfect or near so cannot be given the same value as often occurs in these posts.
Enjoy your Z!
After 23 years, mine still "does it".
That almost never happens.
:cheers:
Marty

[spork2367]

Now, the moment this post is added, many will feel compelled to pooh-pooh it.
They will cite all of their sources, facts, auction results, what they heard somewhere, etc. in a quest to say it isn't so, but let them have at it.
They are entitled to their opinion.
However, I would ask each potential campfire pee-er to document how many copies of "their" price opinion are published, and where the information is obtained to support their opinion.



There is a book.
It is called the Black Book CPI ( Cars of Particular Interest ) Collectable Vehicle Value Guide.


While books do not buy cars, this is a respected guide of "Retail Prices" of Collector Cars that has been around for a long, long time.


A 1991 ZR-1 Coupe has the following values according to CPI:


Fair $ 9,650.00
Good $18,500.00
Excellent $31,000.00


Without a doubt, a black with red 4800 mile car as pictured is far closer to excellent than most all others.


Will this car sell at that price?
Quite possibly, if the seller takes the time and effort required to find the right buyer at that price, which can take 1 year or more.
Many sellers fail to do the above for a multitude of reasons, and there is nothing wrong with that.
:cheers:
Marty

Something must be wrong...I agree with you...Those values are spot on where the market is at currently. Which also means, at 35k the seller is going to be waiting awhile for just the right buyer. And he may be fine with that.

I think the big thing is, 90% of the cars being sold as "pristine/excellent" simply are not. And the initial post selling the car doesn't detail anything well enough to convey that the car is indeed "excellent." (Which happens more often that not)

Low mileage and shiny paint doesn't make an excellent car, which you know. There are a lot of Z owners who don't even change their own oil. Those people are terrible judges of "excellent." It's the difference between a 35k car that needs nothing, and a clean low mileage car that needs 5-8k in maintenance and is worth 20k. Upon further details, this car may be excellent, but the original post didn't convey that and the sellers price is definitely above what the market seems to currently be doing.

The newest of these is over 20 years old. There are so many variables in the purchase, that I argue it is impossible to even give a close estimate of value just by looking at a few pictures and description supplied by the seller.
For grins, let's say we have a 30K example that has been lovingly cared for. Sitting next to it is an identical 30K example that has not received the attention it should have over its 20 plus years of life. Both are shiny and nice looking in the pictures. On the first example, it has lived in a favorable climate and everything works as expected. On the second example, it has been in a harsh enviornment and a few things are not working. There can be a vast difference in value of these two otherwise identical cars.
It is very easy to drop several thousand dollars on a car like the second example, and chances are it will still not be the quality of the first one. The only way, in my opinion, to place a value is to put "eyes on" if you are knowledgeable enough or have a very trusted knowledgeable person check it out. This is not a 15 minute job. It can take more than a single inspection as well.
To sum this up, I don't think we should be offering opinions on values if we have not met the criteria of doing due diligence to determine it.

Definitely. Although, I would argue that due to simple things in pictures, brief descriptions, etc., without seeing the car, you can determine if it's an "excellent" vs. a "good" car. If an owner has a low mileage Z that he's done no work to, and has no maintenance history on, it's not likely an "excellent" car. The difference between "good" and "fair" is where details and in person inspection is even more critical.

[rossgn49u]

Here's a little info on mine:

91 Red/Red #347
Previous owner bought it 3 or 4 years ago for $32k with 6k miles...pristine.
Drove it a few miles and it choked....tank flush, injectors and coils....nearly $3k
New set of tires as originals were showing signs of cracking.

I bought it a few months ago for $25k with old original tires included with sale.

I hope values are getting close to bottoming out, but who knows. I really liked the black car and red guts. I think I offered $24k on Ebay, but cant remember for sure. Had to consider shipping from NY in my offer.

[Z51JEFF]

I have a friend whom i show these cars to and he said he would only buy a White ZR1 with Red interior. I believe that is the rarest

Not even close,just about every other 91 for sale is white/red. I’m a firm believer in spending the money on the cleanest car I can find,I’ll put that over the price. The car in question here might be a $32,000 car,if I were in the market and I had $32,000 to spend on another 91,it would have to be a 91,the price difference of $3000 would not put me off the car. The fact that it’s black/red makes the difference here. Now,if the car were white/red that would be a tough sell at that price. My car,it’s white/red and I love it.

[Atari_Prime]

Beautiful car. Given the color, interior, mileage and general appearance in pictures, I'm interested at about $22k. I completely understand that's nowhere near the asking price but I feel it's fair regardless.

[George Maz]

Beautiful car. Given the color, interior, mileage and general appearance in pictures, I'm interested at about $22k. I completely understand that's nowhere near the asking price but I feel it's fair regardless.
Lowball.

[Z51JEFF]

Beautiful car. Given the color, interior, mileage and general appearance in pictures, I'm interested at about $22k. I completely understand that's nowhere near the asking price but I feel it's fair regardless.

That’s not a fair price,that’s an insult.

[Ccmano]

Per post #23 by the OP the new price is $28,900. Nice car!
H
:cheers:

[Z51JEFF]

Per post #23 by the OP the new price is $28,900. Nice car!
H
:cheers:

Somebody’s going to get a smokin deal.

[spork2367]

Somebody’s going to get a smokin deal.

No offense, but that isn't a "smokin" deal. Valuation guides say that today the car is worth 28,500 if it is indeed in excellent condition. I would consider a smoking deal to be something less than than the average market price. So the seller is right on what the market is doing.

If it is indeed totally stock, then figure in short order it will need injectors, fuel pumps and gaskets (at a bare minimum). That is over a grand without labor.

But if you look at what 91s are selling for right now, it's not likely to be a quick sale at that price.

Very nice car though. Good luck with the sale.

[AnthonyGS]

The fact remains these cars are a bargain. The C5 Z06 is similarly a bargain. It’s pretty sad being the owner of such an awesome car that you can’t expect to break even on.

[Z51JEFF]

No offense, but that isn't a "smokin" deal. Valuation guides say that today the car is worth 28,500 if it is indeed in excellent condition. I would consider a smoking deal to be something less than than the average market price. So the seller is right on what the market is doing.

If it is indeed totally stock, then figure in short order it will need injectors, fuel pumps and gaskets (at a bare minimum). That is over a grand without labor.

But if you look at what 91s are selling for right now, it's not likely to be a quick sale at that price.

Very nice car though. Good luck with the sale.

When was the last time anybody saw a 4000 mile black/red 91 for sale? The price guides are a bit of a hit and miss issue,everybody knows that. Why is it the owners of these cars know the market so much better than the people that make the -price guides-?

[AnthonyGS]

When was the last time anybody saw a 4000 mile black/red 91 for sale? The price guides are a bit of a hit and miss issue,everybody knows that. Why is it the owners of these cars know the market so much better than the people that make the -price guides-?

The price of a ZR-1 depends on your point of view. There simply are very few cars from the same vintage with comparable performance and they all cost close to original retail or more.... 911 turbo, 928 GTS, testarossa..... very expensive.

This makes the ZR-1 a bargain. However if you’re an owner and have kept things in great condition, fixed c4 issues and paid a fair price when you bought the car you will most likely sell for a considerable loss.

For these two reasons, anytime you bring up ZR-1 pricing you get a polarizing discussion. It’s sad to me that these cars do not get the respect they deserve.

[spork2367]

When was the last time anybody saw a 4000 mile black/red 91 for sale? The price guides are a bit of a hit and miss issue,everybody knows that. Why is it the owners of these cars know the market so much better than the people that make the -price guides-?

It drives me nuts when people use colors and low mileage to justify high pricing.

First, there are tons of rare color combos...they didn't make many cars total, made a lot of two colors each year, and offered a pile of colors. Is black on red particularly rare for a 91....not really. Black was the second most popular exterior color, with red being probably the third most popular interior color (behind saddle and gray). If you have one of the 5 black 91's with the steel blue interior, you have a rare color combo. Plus, despite rarity, black on black is more desirable. The best color combo vs. the worst color combo on cars of equal condition and mileage makes maybe a 5% difference in selling price from the 100s of cars I've seen for sale. And color is very subjective.

Low mileage makes a difference in selling price, but it's not a car for which low mileage is rare for its age....at all. Within the collector car world in general there are probably very few cars which have as high of a percentage of low mileage cars per total production numbers as the ZR1. Low mileage doesn't mean rare for these. There are hundreds of cars with less than 10k on the clock and probably 50% or more have less than 50k.


The price of a ZR-1 depends on your point of view. There simply are very few cars from the same vintage with comparable performance and they all cost close to original retail or more.... 911 turbo, 928 GTS, testarossa..... very expensive.

This makes the ZR-1 a bargain. However if you’re an owner and have kept things in great condition, fixed c4 issues and paid a fair price when you bought the car you will most likely sell for a considerable loss.

For these two reasons, anytime you bring up ZR-1 pricing you get a polarizing discussion. It’s sad to me that these cars do not get the respect they deserve.

Part of what the zr1 suffers from is being manufactured on a platform that was shared with a very VERY pedestrian base model. So a zr1 was never easily identified on the street by the average person as a high performance car like the Porsche or Ferrari.

Of the cars you listed, the 911 turbo is the only one that is worth more than it's original MSRP. The 1992+ GTS is close, but if your look at the 1991 S4 which was only 34 less HP, it is worth half the GTS and nearly a third of the original msrp. Testarossas are break even right now on the high retail side, but if you've watched them at auction they are low and typically topping out in the low 120k range.

Part of this is the generation of car in general. On of the reasons the 911 remained so high even through these years is because they were using ancient technology and there is a perception that it is a more reliable car because of that. Mid 80's to late 90's cars will never have the collectability of their predecessors. Part of that is their unique appearance which sets them apart from generations before and after (square sharp edges). Part of it is complex electronics that are cost prohibitive to reproduce and unreliability of early complex electrical systems.

[lfalzarano]

Let the market do the talking and not the owners that treat the ZR-1 as an investment to become future wealth. This is a car to enjoy and be proud to own. Your grandchildren will be the ones reaping the appreciation of these cars and not you. Build a bridge and get over it in IMHO.


Lou

[AnthonyGS]

It drives me nuts when people use colors and low mileage to justify high pricing.

First, there are tons of rare color combos...they didn't make many cars total, made a lot of two colors each year, and offered a pile of colors. Is black on red particularly rare for a 91....not really. Black was the second most popular exterior color, with red being probably the third most popular interior color (behind saddle and gray). If you have one of the 5 black 91's with the steel blue interior, you have a rare color combo. Plus, despite rarity, black on black is more desirable. The best color combo vs. the worst color combo on cars of equal condition and mileage makes maybe a 5% difference in selling price from the 100s of cars I've seen for sale. And color is very subjective.

Low mileage makes a difference in selling price, but it's not a car for which low mileage is rare for its age....at all. Within the collector car world in general there are probably very few cars which have as high of a percentage of low mileage cars per total production numbers as the ZR1. Low mileage doesn't mean rare for these. There are hundreds of cars with less than 10k on the clock and probably 50% or more have less than 50k.




Part of what the zr1 suffers from is being manufactured on a platform that was shared with a very VERY pedestrian base model. So a zr1 was never easily identified on the street by the average person as a high performance car like the Porsche or Ferrari.

Of the cars you listed, the 911 turbo is the only one that is worth more than it's original MSRP. The 1992+ GTS is close, but if your look at the 1991 S4 which was only 34 less HP, it is worth half the GTS and nearly a third of the original msrp. Testarossas are break even right now on the high retail side, but if you've watched them at auction they are low and typically topping out in the low 120k range.

Part of this is the generation of car in general. On of the reasons the 911 remained so high even through these years is because they were using ancient technology and there is a perception that it is a more reliable car because of that. Mid 80's to late 90's cars will never have the collectability of their predecessors. Part of that is their unique appearance which sets them apart from generations before and after (square sharp edges). Part of it is complex electronics that are cost prohibitive to reproduce and unreliability of early complex electrical systems.



I disagree with your last sentiment completely. Go check prices on twin turbo Supras and FD RX-7s in the US. They are sky high for low mileage clean cars almost at retail when new or higher. These cars have electronics that make the ZR-1 seem simple and reliable.


People want what they want, and it can't be easily predicted or controlled. I think people want what they lusted for as a kid and couldn't have. That explains why no one is going after Model Ts or 32 T buckets now, because those generations are gone. Our dads all wanted muscle cars as they aged and drove prices through the roof. As they generation leaves us muscle car prices will fall. The current middle aged guys want Supras FD RX7s and Porsches. No one wants 300ZX turbos or Mitsu 3000 GTs though. And very few people want ZR-1s, like it or not, and that is keeping the price low and availability high and sales long.


I'm considering selling my ZR-1 and getting a really clean 944 turbo. Why, because as I age that 944 turbo is going to be worth a whole lot more even though it isn't nearly as much car performance wise. That's a car I can buy, drive on nice days, and leave to my kids and they can enjoy it or sell for a huge profit. The ZR-1 is never going to be that car no matter how much anyone wants it.


The reason air cooled 911s are so high is the perceived notion that the water cooled one are inferior, when in fact its a way better car. You can buy a 996 for ZR-1 money and it has ZR-1 like performance and Porsche quality. I have one of them too and they are cheap.


People want what they want, and actual vehicle performance has zero to do with it in many cases thus the ZR-1 is an underappreciated super car in disguise.


Today's kids are going to be searching for really clean Scion FR-S models and paying out the nose for them. They won't want any old muscle car, an air cooled Porsche or our ZR-1s.

[spork2367]

Let the market do the talking and not the owners that treat the ZR-1 as an investment to become future wealth. This is a car to enjoy and be proud to own. Your grandchildren will be the ones reaping the appreciation of these cars and not you. Build a bridge and get over it in IMHO.


Lou

Agreed for the most part. I don't think they are ever going to appreciate beyond what the MSRP was, adjusted for inflation of course.

I disagree with your last sentiment completely. Go check prices on twin turbo Supras and FD RX-7s in the US. They are sky high for low mileage clean cars almost at retail when new or higher. These cars have electronics that make the ZR-1 seem simple and reliable.

I'm not saying those cars won't be desirable, I'm saying they won't ever see the appreciation of 60's Ferraris or 60-70 (and 80s) Porsches.


Twin turbo supras were expensive new. Adjusted for inflation, a 1996 Supra that sold for 49k in 1996 would sell for 78k in 2018 dollars. A nice clean 50k mile car might sell for low to mid 60k today. So as an investment, you still wouldn't have made any money. Part of the reason they command the money they do clean today is because they were sold cheap abused and cut up in the early 2000s. There are very few nice clean examples left.

Inflation is the other part people ignore. A ZR1 that sold to the first owner for say, 65k, would have to sell for 125k today just to break even considering inflation. A ZR1 that sold to the second owner in 2010 for 32k would have to sell for 37k today just to make up for inflation.

Same goes for the RX-7. Except they they sold new for 20k in 1990 and sell for 20k now in todays dollars. Again, not huge appreciation.

The notion is that because they once sold super cheap and have skyrocketed that they would have been good investments. That goes for anything that dips then appreciates. Porsche 911s sold for 16-18k not that long ago. Ferrari 308s could be had for 30k all day long less than 10 years ago.

ZR1s are absolutely more complex electronically than either the 1JZ-GTE or the 13B-DEI. Reliability aside.

The current middle aged guys want Supras FD RX7s and Porsches. No one wants 300ZX turbos or Mitsu 3000 GTs though. And very few people want ZR-1s, like it or not, and that is keeping the price low and availability high and sales long.

Mitsubishi 3000 GTs and Dodge Stealth's have a strong following which will only increase as my age group approaches middle age. Go price a nice clean low mileage RT/TT...But yes, I don't believe ZR1s will ever appreciate greatly because they get lumped in with low performance C4s and because the supply of clean cars far exceeds the demand, and I don't see the demand increasing. Porsches are popular across age groups.

I'm considering selling my ZR-1 and getting a really clean 944 turbo. Why, because as I age that 944 turbo is going to be worth a whole lot more even though it isn't nearly as much car performance wise. That's a car I can buy, drive on nice days, and leave to my kids and they can enjoy it or sell for a huge profit. The ZR-1 is never going to be that car no matter how much anyone wants it.

Agreed on the ZR1, but Porsche 944s have topped out, and I don't see them increasing significantly, but you never know. A clean turbo car is going to cost almost twice what your ZR1 is worth though.

The reason air cooled 911s are so high is the perceived notion that the water cooled one are inferior, when in fact its a way better car. You can buy a 996 for ZR-1 money and it has ZR-1 like performance and Porsche quality. I have one of them too and they are cheap.

They also have some serious head gasket issues that can turn your car from a great car into a paperweight because they are cost prohibitive to fix.

People want what they want, and actual vehicle performance has zero to do with it in many cases thus the ZR-1 is an underappreciated super car in disguise.

Absolutely.

Today's kids are going to be searching for really clean Scion FR-S models and paying out the nose for them. They won't want any old muscle car, an air cooled Porsche or our ZR-1s.

They'll still want Porsches...lol.

[AnthonyGS]

Agreed for the most part. I don't think they are ever going to appreciate beyond what the MSRP was, adjusted for inflation of course.



I'd argue the twin turbo cars are more complex electrically especially the 13B-REW which was its demise in the US anyway.


Yes sadly ZR-1s are likely never going to be a great investment car in high demand.


I'm not sure today's kid will always want Porsche's. And long term I think good clean stock low mile 944 turbos have quite a bit of room to grow. Anyone that's drive them know it's a better driver's car than the air cooled 911s, but nostalgia drives price for the air cooled cars.


I once made a list of the best performance bargains under 20K and the ZR-1 is the near top as well as my 996. You can also get 944 turbos and FD RX7s under that if you look really hard and are patient or you can buy a basketcase in any flavor. The newest best absolute value is probably a Porsche Boxster. It's a great car but there are so many of them and the "chic car" reputation has driven the price down. If you replace the IMS with the IMS solution, you'll have a car you can beat on for 200K miles that will still look better and handle better than any of its contemporaries.


The final cars on my best performing list are the C5 Z06 (just now starting to reach the 20k mark), an '03-'04 Cobra terminator and a nice LS1 SS or ram air Trans Am. Those cars are starting to turn a corner value wise as well.


The two cars I am considering trading my ZR-1 for are a nice 944 turbo and a white '01 Z06. Honestly, I'd most likely do some more things to the ZR-1 though and sell it on bring a trailer or go the long sale route. I have a really nice '91 blk/blk with only 68k miles and so many of the normal ZR-1 things are already addressed.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

These threads are absolutely fascinating.
Every Corvette made from 1953 to 1982, if pristine, sells for at least what it stickered for.
Absolutely EVERY year.
Didn't happen right away, but it happened to every single year.
Older ones sell for up to 25-30 times sticker.


I am ever so thankful that you have all warned us that this phenomenon, is without a doubt atypical, and has come to a crashing end.
Wow, I guess we all should just junk them at this point, being as they will never be worth a thing.
Oh, other cars will have value, but Corvettes, no?
Absolutely amazing!
How can we ever thank you all enough for these insights?
Not that I ever bought it for an investment, nor kept it for 23 years for any reason other than appreciation.
Oh well.
It is good to know that some of those foreign marks are increasing in value.
Their increases might almost cover their parts and repair costs, but hey who cares, those cars have value unlike our Corvettes.
I'll pass though.
My DRM will still kick the snot out of most of them, even though it is near valueless.
I rather enjoy letting them view those taillights.
Marty

[AnthonyGS]

The prices that 53-82s fetch has nothing to do with ZR-1s sadly. It's not a correlation that can be made. It doesn't apply to any Corvette after '82. I'm not even sure it applies to all of the C3s really.


Yep the ZR-1 is a fascinating performance machine, and is faster than many other cars that are appreciating in value. Your DRM isn't valueless, it's just way undervalued compared to its performance capabilities when looked at in context of cars of the same period. Being faster won't change that. I've seen dog slow 150 hp naturally aspirated 944s fetch more than ZR-1s in many cases.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

The prices that 53-82s fetch has nothing to do with ZR-1s sadly. It's not a correlation that can be made. It doesn't apply to any Corvette after '82. I'm not even sure it applies to all of the C3s really.


Yep the ZR-1 is a fascinating performance machine, and is faster than many other cars that are appreciating in value. Your DRM isn't valueless, it's just way undervalued compared to its performance capabilities when looked at in context of cars of the same period. Being faster won't change that. I've seen dog slow 150 hp naturally aspirated 944s fetch more than ZR-1s in many cases.


Really?
The ZR-1 is a Corvette correct?
So the thought is that out of 53-95, the ZR-1 will be the first and only Corvette to break the trend. A trend that has held for 30 years of production Corvettes.
While that is certainly within the realm of possibility, it has to be one of the least probable events to occur, based simply upon 30 years of documented history that supports the exact opposite.
Again, I prefaced this with "pristine" condition cars from 53-82.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but it would certainly help to at least attempt to explain what factually will cause this calamitous value collapse event to occur.

For those of you that may be too young to know or remember, the exact same dire predictions were made about C-3 Corvettes, particularly, the later, post chrome cars.
They were so cheap you could buy half a dozen for $10,000.00.
Those days are gone.
There are no factual trends or events cited that support the value collapse theory.
To the contrary, facts and trends for C-4's in general, are consistently following the same trajectory as the C-3 generation before them.
Absent a true game-changing event, history tends to follow the same path.
Our combined conjecture pales when the factual patterns are empirically evident.
Simply look at the values of 53-82, and how they steadily climbed and in EVERY case matched then exceeded original MSRP.
Time and inflation are as unstoppable as waves in the ocean.
Those forces have shaped the values of solid axle cars, mid years, and third generation cars, and will continue to do the same for the generations to come.
Back to one of the best statements made, I believe by Z51 Jeff, " how many 4800 mile black red cars are out there?"
If you don't want it, you won't pay up.
If you do want it, then price becomes far less important.
Enjoy your cars.
I do.
Marty

[AnthonyGS]

Your entire argument hinges on the fact that the past predicts the future. It doesn’t. Things change.

The only thing you nailed is that a ZR-1 is a Corvette.

Ever meet a millennial? Meet lots of them? They hate Corvettes for the most part and love the Prius. They take Uber, Lyft and public transportation. They shun driving. They are busy texting while driving and don’t care about horsepower, speed, or handling.

The MMA has annihilated professional boxing. NASCAR is dying a slow death. The once invincible NFL is crumbling. Our great republic is being infiltrated by socialists thanks largely to millennials. TV sitcoms are gone. No one wants a black and white TV anymore and most people don’t want a car with a carburetor either. No one watches the Indy 500 anymore either. There’s no market for parachute pants either. Ford is only going to make two cars because everyone wants suvs and crossovers now. The car hobby is experiencing its last hurrah.

Legislators are doing all the can to remove our rights to drive ourselves and will likely succeed someday. Then there will be nothing to do but text while riding big delighting all the younger generations.

The dinosaurs thought they’d live forever too. A lot more than 30 years of history had them on top.

I’m also big time into airplanes and trains. No one today gives a crap about steam locomotives or old aircraft either. I fly RC airplanes. 30 years ago you had to build your airplane out of wood, it flew on nitromethane, and your radio was AM or FM. Now they are made out of foam in china, electric powered, and fly off 2.4 ghz spread spectrum radios.

But it’s a Corvette right? Captain Kirk was a womanizing tough guy who today would be imprisoned for being a toxic masculine sexual predator.

The world changes, even if you don’t. 30 years ago a lot of people said they’d never use computers too.... how’d that work out?

Today’s kids are going to want a Prius or a Scion FR-S or maybe a WRX. They’ll have as much desire for my ZR-1 as I do for a Model A.

[Z51JEFF]

All the arguing about values. Honestly,anybody that knows these cars knows that 91 is worth $30K. You can argue the point,market whatever. One of the most desirable color combinations dictates what this car will to for and nobody can go off a price chart they read in a magazine. Please,don’t come back witt it’s what the market will pay BS.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Your entire argument hinges on the fact that the past predicts the future. It doesn’t. Things change.

The only thing you nailed is that a ZR-1 is a Corvette.

Ever meet a millennial? Meet lots of them? They hate Corvettes for the most part and love the Prius. They take Uber, Lyft and public transportation. They shun driving. They are busy texting while driving and don’t care about horsepower, speed, or handling.

The MMA has annihilated professional boxing. NASCAR is dying a slow death. The once invincible NFL is crumbling. Our great republic is being infiltrated by socialists thanks largely to millennials. TV sitcoms are gone. No one wants a black and white TV anymore and most people don’t want a car with a carburetor either. No one watches the Indy 500 anymore either. There’s no market for parachute pants either. Ford is only going to make two cars because everyone wants suvs and crossovers now. The car hobby is experiencing its last hurrah.

Legislators are doing all the can to remove our rights to drive ourselves and will likely succeed someday. Then there will be nothing to do but text while riding big delighting all the younger generations.

The dinosaurs thought they’d live forever too. A lot more than 30 years of history had them on top.

I’m also big time into airplanes and trains. No one today gives a crap about steam locomotives or old aircraft either. I fly RC airplanes. 30 years ago you had to build your airplane out of wood, it flew on nitromethane, and your radio was AM or FM. Now they are made out of foam in china, electric powered, and fly off 2.4 ghz spread spectrum radios.

But it’s a Corvette right? Captain Kirk was a womanizing tough guy who today would be imprisoned for being a toxic masculine sexual predator.

The world changes, even if you don’t. 30 years ago a lot of people said they’d never use computers too.... how’d that work out?

Today’s kids are going to want a Prius or a Scion FR-S or maybe a WRX. They’ll have as much desire for my ZR-1 as I do for a Model A.


100% opinion

0% fact


Things indeed change,which validates your speculation, but even your millennial and dinosaur analogies may sound cute, but remain pure speculation, as they do not disprove anything as far as Corvette values.

No facts.
Dare I say "fake news"?

By the way,
Some of those Corvettes with carburetors sell at 40 times original MSRP, AND continue to climb, many being purchased by men and women who were not alive when the car was new.
Perhaps we should talk with them about dinosaurs.

I don't wish to argue.
Show the trends.
Show the facts.


Or, better yet, forget all of this time wasting mutual conjecture and drive and enjoy the car!
Now where is my 7 transistor radio......................


Oh, and I have areal nice WRX if one of those young or old kids are looking for one.


Marty

[lfalzarano]

100% opinion

0% fact


Things indeed change,which validates your speculation, but even your millennial and dinosaur analogies may sound cute, but remain pure speculation, as they do not disprove anything as far as Corvette values.

No facts.
Dare I say "fake news"?

By the way,
Some of those Corvettes with carburetors sell at 40 times original MSRP, AND continue to climb, many being purchased by men and women who were not alive when the car was new.
Perhaps we should talk with them about dinosaurs.

I don't wish to argue.
Show the trends.
Show the facts.


Or, better yet, forget all of this time wasting mutual conjecture and drive and enjoy the car!
Now where is my 7 transistor radio......................


Oh, and I have areal nice WRX if one of those young or old kids are looking for one.


Marty



Right on!!!!


Lou

[TX '90 ZR1]

100% opinion

0% fact


Things indeed change,which validates your speculation, but even your millennial and dinosaur analogies may sound cute, but remain pure speculation, as they do not disprove anything as far as Corvette values.

No facts.
Dare I say "fake news"?

By the way,
Some of those Corvettes with carburetors sell at 40 times original MSRP, AND continue to climb, many being purchased by men and women who were not alive when the car was new.
Perhaps we should talk with them about dinosaurs.

I don't wish to argue.
Show the trends.
Show the facts.


Or, better yet, forget all of this time wasting mutual conjecture and drive and enjoy the car!
Now where is my 7 transistor radio......................


Oh, and I have areal nice WRX if one of those young or old kids are looking for one.


Marty

I'm with you again Marty.
Let's just drive and enjoy. A lot of enjoyment can also be had by keeping the cars in top shape!!
If you are in the market for one of these cars, make an informed decision on the particular car and buy your preference at an amount where you are comfortable.
All the apples in the basket are not the same. Sometimes you find a worm, so check closely before deciding where to bite!

[32valvZ]

Your entire argument hinges on the fact that the past predicts the future. It doesn’t. Things change.

The only thing you nailed is that a ZR-1 is a Corvette.

Ever meet a millennial? Meet lots of them? They hate Corvettes for the most part and love the Prius. They take Uber, Lyft and public transportation. They shun driving. They are busy texting while driving and don’t care about horsepower, speed, or handling.

The MMA has annihilated professional boxing. NASCAR is dying a slow death. The once invincible NFL is crumbling. Our great republic is being infiltrated by socialists thanks largely to millennials. TV sitcoms are gone. No one wants a black and white TV anymore and most people don’t want a car with a carburetor either. No one watches the Indy 500 anymore either. There’s no market for parachute pants either. Ford is only going to make two cars because everyone wants suvs and crossovers now. The car hobby is experiencing its last hurrah.

Legislators are doing all the can to remove our rights to drive ourselves and will likely succeed someday. Then there will be nothing to do but text while riding big delighting all the younger generations.

The dinosaurs thought they’d live forever too. A lot more than 30 years of history had them on top.

I’m also big time into airplanes and trains. No one today gives a crap about steam locomotives or old aircraft either. I fly RC airplanes. 30 years ago you had to build your airplane out of wood, it flew on nitromethane, and your radio was AM or FM. Now they are made out of foam in china, electric powered, and fly off 2.4 ghz spread spectrum radios.

But it’s a Corvette right? Captain Kirk was a womanizing tough guy who today would be imprisoned for being a toxic masculine sexual predator.

The world changes, even if you don’t. 30 years ago a lot of people said they’d never use computers too.... how’d that work out?

Today’s kids are going to want a Prius or a Scion FR-S or maybe a WRX. They’ll have as much desire for my ZR-1 as I do for a Model A.

I can see your point. And yes, things are always changing... However, you can look at this as just the opposite. People also long for the old times and things from the old times...

Look at the gas light bulb craze thats happening right now... Go into a Home Depot or Lowes and look at all the Chinese reproductions of a gas light fixture....

Take watches... I like watches.... I like many types of watches... Of course a new Apple watch is the new thing....and pretty cool... that doesnt devalue an 80's Submariner at all.... Check the prices on them... still between $5-7k

Another interest I have is quality home audio... so what use would I have for a vintage RCA Victor? Not for its sound quality obviously.... but the cool factor of having it in my home as a piece of history and a conversation piece.

Do you see what Im saying? Anything old, or rare in good condition, be it a cash register, a clock, antique furniture or a Corvette, will eventually be something that people will want in the future.

What comes around goes around. Value is built through rarity and the longing to have things others do not. Its simple human nature.

....and as a car guy.... Id love to have a Model A in my collection..... why wouldn't I?

[rossgn49u]

Well, crap! The majority of my 401k is invested in parachute pants stock.



Your entire argument hinges on the fact that the past predicts the future. It doesn’t. Things change.

The only thing you nailed is that a ZR-1 is a Corvette.

Ever meet a millennial? Meet lots of them? They hate Corvettes for the most part and love the Prius. They take Uber, Lyft and public transportation. They shun driving. They are busy texting while driving and don’t care about horsepower, speed, or handling.

The MMA has annihilated professional boxing. NASCAR is dying a slow death. The once invincible NFL is crumbling. Our great republic is being infiltrated by socialists thanks largely to millennials. TV sitcoms are gone. No one wants a black and white TV anymore and most people don’t want a car with a carburetor either. No one watches the Indy 500 anymore either. There’s no market for parachute pants either. Ford is only going to make two cars because everyone wants suvs and crossovers now. The car hobby is experiencing its last hurrah.

Legislators are doing all the can to remove our rights to drive ourselves and will likely succeed someday. Then there will be nothing to do but text while riding big delighting all the younger generations.

The dinosaurs thought they’d live forever too. A lot more than 30 years of history had them on top.

I’m also big time into airplanes and trains. No one today gives a crap about steam locomotives or old aircraft either. I fly RC airplanes. 30 years ago you had to build your airplane out of wood, it flew on nitromethane, and your radio was AM or FM. Now they are made out of foam in china, electric powered, and fly off 2.4 ghz spread spectrum radios.

But it’s a Corvette right? Captain Kirk was a womanizing tough guy who today would be imprisoned for being a toxic masculine sexual predator.

The world changes, even if you don’t. 30 years ago a lot of people said they’d never use computers too.... how’d that work out?

Today’s kids are going to want a Prius or a Scion FR-S or maybe a WRX. They’ll have as much desire for my ZR-1 as I do for a Model A.

[spork2367]

These threads are absolutely fascinating.
Every Corvette made from 1953 to 1982, if pristine, sells for at least what it stickered for.
Absolutely EVERY year.

Stopped reading this post right here. Adjust the numbers for inflation and virtually nothing from 1972 on sells for what it stickered for. A dollar today doesn't buy what a dollar did in 1979. Obviously. A corvette was 12k dollars in 1979 and today is 55k.

So correcting numbers for inflation, for say a 1979 to sell for sticker price it would have to sell for 45k today. Let me know how many 1979 corvettes you've seen sell for that.

edit* You have an "absolutely stunning" 1982 for sale on your site right now that you are selling for far less than the inflation adjusted msrp. In fact, you have it priced about 2k below original msrp not adjusted for inflation. Your "pristine" 1982 is only 2k above original msrp. Adjusted for inflation that should be a 48k car all day!!!

Talk about fake news!

I also wanted to add, you have a HUGE vested interest in portraying these cars as being worth more than they are while you're sitting on a number of low mileage cars that you have priced 25% over market value. I'm sure you have 100 reasons why they are worth that money, magical color combinations, one owner cars, original owner was a virgin, whatever the argument may be.


The prices that 53-82s fetch has nothing to do with ZR-1s sadly. It's not a correlation that can be made. It doesn't apply to any Corvette after '82. I'm not even sure it applies to all of the C3s really.

This. The generation that grew up loving corvettes of the 50's, 60's and 70's doesn't love 80's and 90's corvettes. And the group that would have been the right age to love the 80's and 90's corvettes....doesn't. There is no group "coming of age" who is going to reminisce and start raising the values.


Back to one of the best statements made, I believe by Z51 Jeff, " how many 4800 mile black red cars are out there?"
If you don't want it, you won't pay up.
If you do want it, then price becomes far less important.
Enjoy your cars.
I do.
Marty

First, there are tons of rare color combos...they didn't make many cars total, made a lot of two colors each year, and offered a pile of colors. Is black on red particularly rare for a 91....not really. Black was the second most popular exterior color, with red being probably the third most popular interior color (behind saddle and gray). If you have one of the 5 black 91's with the steel blue interior, you have a rare color combo. Plus, despite rarity, black on black is more desirable.

Secondly, it's completely subjective.

Your entire argument hinges on the fact that the past predicts the future. It doesn’t. Things change.

The only thing you nailed is that a ZR-1 is a Corvette.

Ever meet a millennial? Meet lots of them? They hate Corvettes for the most part and love the Prius. They take Uber, Lyft and public transportation. They shun driving. They are busy texting while driving and don’t care about horsepower, speed, or handling.

This, the generation that should have fallen in love with c4's didn't, and isn't going to. They have a completely different mentality than those that fell in love with previous generations. Not only that, A much larger group of people can appreciate the aesthetic qualities of c1 or c2 corvette. Even the c3 has it's very unique curves. The c4 doesn't have that same appeal. There is just a much smaller group that likes that relatively short lived style (square cornered cars vs cars with curves). You can see that across the board. Even Ferraris of that era haven't done spectacular.

All the arguing about values. Honestly,anybody that knows these cars knows that 91 is worth $30K. You can argue the point,market whatever. One of the most desirable color combinations dictates what this car will to for and nobody can go off a price chart they read in a magazine. Please,don’t come back witt it’s what the market will pay BS.

No sports car has an intrinsic value beyond what the scrap metal is worth...or possibly, for it's utilitarian purpose, the price of the car compared to the cheapest mode of transportation available. Since by technical standards it just gets a person from one place to another.

So every sports car is worth only what someone is willing to pay. And no one is buying this one for 28,900. Which tells me it certainly isn't worth 30k. That's about as simple as economics get.

100% opinion

0% fact

By the way,
Some of those Corvettes with carburetors sell at 40 times original MSRP, AND continue to climb, many being purchased by men and women who were not alive when the car was new.
Perhaps we should talk with them about dinosaurs.

I don't wish to argue.
Show the trends.
Show the facts.


Says the guy who is claiming all pristine corvettes up to 82 are worth msrp or more, casually ignoring inflation...

I can see your point. And yes, things are always changing... However, you can look at this as just the opposite. People also long for the old times and things from the old times...

Look at the gas light bulb craze thats happening right now... Go into a Home Depot or Lowes and look at all the Chinese reproductions of a gas light fixture....

Take watches... I like watches.... I like many types of watches... Of course a new Apple watch is the new thing....and pretty cool... that doesnt devalue an 80's Submariner at all.... Check the prices on them... still between $5-7k

Another interest I have is quality home audio... so what use would I have for a vintage RCA Victor? Not for its sound quality obviously.... but the cool factor of having it in my home as a piece of history and a conversation piece.

Do you see what Im saying? Anything old, or rare in good condition, be it a cash register, a clock, antique furniture or a Corvette, will eventually be something that people will want in the future.

What comes around goes around. Value is built through rarity and the longing to have things others do not. Its simple human nature.

....and as a car guy.... Id love to have a Model A in my collection..... why wouldn't I?

It's not just about age though. It's about appearance, use, purpose, all together.

The light bulbs are reproductions. They aren't collectable items. It's not really about old becoming new, it's about people desiring to create an atmosphere of a different time period.

See anyone collecting early 1996 RCA boom boxes and stereos? They don't have the aesthetic quality, or the physical quality. If things only get more valuable over time, why aren't the pristine Model A cars worth a million bucks?

Value is built on desirability, availability, and condition. Then one has to consider maintainability and future collectability.

ZR1s aren't overly desirable. The group that likes them is small. In actuality, smaller than the number of cars available. Substantially when you look at the number of owners who own multiple cars. And compared to past generations of corvettes and owners, the generation that should have loved the C4 doesn't.

They are available in almost any year and most colors at any given point. You may not find the exact combo you want, but consider some other collector cars out there that rarely come up for sale. It's take what you can get. There are a lot of choices with ZR1s.

Condition. As I said before, there are likely more low mileage ZR1s as a percentage of cars built than any other mass produced collector car model out there. So finding clean low mileage cars is more the norm than the exception.

[Mystic ZR-1]

Hey Marty
I gotta get some cash quick!
Can you sell my car on consignment for
whatever you can get for it while there’s still some (but not much...)
value left?
Got a hot hot hot tip on some parachute pants stock, but gotta act quick!
Thanks,
🤪

[spork2367]

Hey Marty
I gotta get some cash quick!
Can you sell my car on consignment for
whatever you can get for it while there’s still some (but not much...)
value left?
Got a hot hot hot tip on some parachute pants stock, but gotta act quick!
Thanks,
🤪

I heard there's about to be a big sell off, I'd hold out...

[Mystic ZR-1]

I heard there's about to be a big sell off, I'd hold out...

How about “Members Only” jacket stock? 🤩

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Again, I was tempted to write a factual response to spork's whatever.
However, I remembered the old adage of arguing with a fool.
From ten feet away, you can't tell who is who.


I am however left with one question.


All of the people that regularly come on here and assert the lack of value of Corvettes in general, and ZR-1's in particular, why do they even own one if they do, and why come here if that is how they feel? What is the point?

I have presented facts.
If you don't like them, then that is fine.
May you have a good day anyway.


My ZR-1 is priceless to me!
Sorry some of you don't feel the same.
Your loss, not mine.
Marty

[spork2367]

Again, I was tempted to write a factual response to spork's whatever.
However, I remembered the old adage of arguing with a fool.
From ten feet away, you can't tell who is who.


I am however left with one question.


All of the people that regularly come on here and assert the lack of value of Corvettes in general, and ZR-1's in particular, why do they even own one if they do, and why come here if that is how they feel? What is the point?

I have presented facts.
If you don't like them, then that is fine.
May you have a good day anyway.


My ZR-1 is priceless to me!
Sorry some of you don't feel the same.
Your loss, not mine.
Marty

You'd be tempted to write a factual response, but you don't have one, and while YOU'RE ZR1 may be priceless, the ones on your website have a price...and it's high. Really high.

Your own website, where the dealership you are partial owner in is selling cars, contradicts what you've come into this thread and said about corvette values.

I've got more in spare parts than most have in their cars. My z's will run forever, and I love them. I'm just realistic about their value.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Well, crap! The majority of my 401k is invested in parachute pants stock.


As a broker, I spread my risk around.


8 track tape players


Sony Beta


Harvey Weinstein movie futures.


Cigarette companies.


Zippered pants/shorts.


Pontiac Franchises.


the list goes on.


Marty

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Hey Marty
I gotta get some cash quick!
Can you sell my car on consignment for
whatever you can get for it while there’s still some (but not much...)
value left?
Got a hot hot hot tip on some parachute pants stock, but gotta act quick!
Thanks,
🤪




No, I hear that these Corvettes are just a passing fad, so it might never sell.
But count me on on the pants deal!
Marty

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

You'd be tempted to write a factual response, but you don't have one, and while YOU'RE ZR1 may be priceless, the ones on your website have a price...and it's high. Really high.


Your own website, where the dealership you are partial owner in is selling cars, contradicts what you've come into this thread and said about corvette values.

I've got more in spare parts than most have in their cars. My z's will run forever, and I love them. I'm just realistic about their value.


Realistic?
Pointless.

Believe what you wish.


Oh, and for the record, that is owner, spork, and yes I do sell them, thank you.



Again, have a good day.
Marty

[Mystic ZR-1]

Marty
We’ve gotta talk inve$tment$ at Carlisle!
Could use some good advice,
my “guy” ain’t cutting it anymore... 💸

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

How about “Members Only” jacket stock? 🤩


Does one need to be member....................

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Marty
We’ve gotta talk inve$tment$ at Carlisle!
Could use some good advice,
my “guy” ain’t cutting it anymore... 💸


For you I would, however I surrendered my NASD license when I left the bank.


Plastics my boy, PLASTICS!

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

I heard there's about to be a big sell off, I'd hold out...


figures.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

You'd be tempted to write a factual response, but you don't have one, and while YOU'RE ZR1 may be priceless, the ones on your website have a price...and it's high. Really high.

Your own website, where the dealership you are partial owner in is selling cars, contradicts what you've come into this thread and said about corvette values.

I've got more in spare parts than most have in their cars. My z's will run forever, and I love them. I'm just realistic about their value.


Well, see, I knew we would agree about something!

[Mystic ZR-1]

For you I would, however I surrendered my NASD license when I left the bank.


Plastics my boy, PLASTICS!

Wonder how Anne Bancroft looks today?

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Wonder how Anne Bancroft looks today?


Not sure, but I prefer the memory!

[spork2367]

Well, see, I knew we would agree about something!

Isn't the first time, probably won't be the last.

We probably agree on more than we disagree on, this just happens to be the topic we end up discussing the most.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

I found a company that makes PLASTIC straws!!!
Need I say more?
How much should we ante up?


( for Mystic)

[spork2367]

I found a company that makes PLASTIC straws!!!
Need I say more?
How much should we ante up?


( for Mystic)

Plastic straws and 3d printed guns...

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Isn't the first time, probably won't be the last.


Sounds good to me!


We probably agree on more than we disagree on, this just happens to be the topic we end up discussing the most.


Quite likely, and you are right.
Have a good one!
Marty

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Plastic straws and 3d printed guns...


Now THAT is good!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TX '90 ZR1]

Seems like we have totally hijacked the OP's thread. (I'm guilty too)
I guess at least we are keeping his thread top, front & center.
Maybe someone that is interested will see what looks to be a VERY nice car at a VERY reasonable price.

[onethumb]

Not to wade too deep into this one, but I thought I'd add my perspective to the energetic discussion because I am one of those people some of you here are saying don't exist.

The issue is not what younger people want to buy--I was a teenager when the original ZR-1 came out, and my wife even younger (and yes, she was the driving force behind our recent entry into the ZR-1 world--her dad's friend had one and she got to ride in it when she was little, and to this day has always wanted one).

Just like the era of the muscle car, collectors are often those who couldn't afford the car new but always wanted one, after growing up hanging pictures of them on our bedroom walls.

But here is the catch: unlike prior generations, ours graduated college under tough economic times, saddled with insane student loans, were faced with an overvalued-then crashing housing market, and overall had very little help from parents.

My wife and I were fortunate enough to attend good schools, worked hard to get valuable degrees, went to graduate/professional school to do the same, and it has paid off---we own a home in a nice area and have paid off $250k in student loans. So now, yes we can buy 3rd and 4th cars to have fun with.

But we are in a small minority. Most people my age struggled to buy a home and had to endure one heck of a ride when the market crashed. Some were wiped out. A lot have still not been able to buy a home yet.

Bottom line is that it is not a lack of interest in classic cars that drives the current market---the interest is there. It's the lack of resources. Same goes for housing---for over a decade we listened as "experts" told us that suburbs were dying, that millennials wanted to live in cities, and so on. But recent numbers suggest that millennials are now buying houses like crazy, as they start families. It has just all been delayed---marriage later, children later, etc. all because of a lack of resources.

Having said all that, things are changing. You can see this starting with the recent trends in the classic car market: the 80's cars of all makes are rising rapidly (80's TA's are going up leaps and bounds), and older trucks are making a huge comeback---Broncos, Jeeps, even 70's era pickups are gaining value fast.

90's cars are not on the radar yet. Be patient!

And yes, this is a GREAT looking car! GLWS!

[TX '90 ZR1]

Not to wade too deep into this one, but I thought I'd add my perspective to the energetic discussion because I am one of those people some of you here are saying don't exist.

The issue is not what younger people want to buy--I was a teenager when the original ZR-1 came out, and my wife even younger (and yes, she was the driving force behind our recent entry into the ZR-1 world--her dad's friend had one and she got to ride in it when she was little, and to this day has always wanted one).

Just like the era of the muscle car, collectors are often those who couldn't afford the car new but always wanted one, after growing up hanging pictures of them on our bedroom walls.

But here is the catch: unlike prior generations, ours graduated college under tough economic times, saddled with insane student loans, were faced with an overvalued-then crashing housing market, and overall had very little help from parents.

My wife and I were fortunate enough to attend good schools, worked hard to get valuable degrees, went to graduate/professional school to do the same, and it has paid off---we own a home in a nice area and have paid off $250k in student loans. So now, yes we can buy 3rd and 4th cars to have fun with.

But we are in a small minority. Most people my age struggled to buy a home and had to endure one heck of a ride when the market crashed. Some were wiped out. A lot have still not been able to buy a home yet.

Bottom line is that it is not a lack of interest in classic cars that drives the current market---the interest is there. It's the lack of resources. Same goes for housing---for over a decade we listened as "experts" told us that suburbs were dying, that millennials wanted to live in cities, and so on. But recent numbers suggest that millennials are now buying houses like crazy, as they start families. It has just all been delayed---marriage later, children later, etc. all because of a lack of resources.

Having said all that, things are changing. You can see this starting with the recent trends in the classic car market: the 80's cars of all makes are rising rapidly (80's TA's are going up leaps and bounds), and older trucks are making a huge comeback---Broncos, Jeeps, even 70's era pickups are gaining value fast.

90's cars are not on the radar yet. Be patient!

And yes, this is a GREAT looking car! GLWS!

Very insightful, and I think you are probably "spot on"!

[spork2367]

Not to wade too deep into this one, but I thought I'd add my perspective to the energetic discussion because I am one of those people some of you here are saying don't exist.

The issue is not what younger people want to buy--I was a teenager when the original ZR-1 came out, and my wife even younger (and yes, she was the driving force behind our recent entry into the ZR-1 world--her dad's friend had one and she got to ride in it when she was little, and to this day has always wanted one).

Just like the era of the muscle car, collectors are often those who couldn't afford the car new but always wanted one, after growing up hanging pictures of them on our bedroom walls.

But here is the catch: unlike prior generations, ours graduated college under tough economic times, saddled with insane student loans, were faced with an overvalued-then crashing housing market, and overall had very little help from parents.

My wife and I were fortunate enough to attend good schools, worked hard to get valuable degrees, went to graduate/professional school to do the same, and it has paid off---we own a home in a nice area and have paid off $250k in student loans. So now, yes we can buy 3rd and 4th cars to have fun with.

But we are in a small minority. Most people my age struggled to buy a home and had to endure one heck of a ride when the market crashed. Some were wiped out. A lot have still not been able to buy a home yet.

Bottom line is that it is not a lack of interest in classic cars that drives the current market---the interest is there. It's the lack of resources. Same goes for housing---for over a decade we listened as "experts" told us that suburbs were dying, that millennials wanted to live in cities, and so on. But recent numbers suggest that millennials are now buying houses like crazy, as they start families. It has just all been delayed---marriage later, children later, etc. all because of a lack of resources.

Having said all that, things are changing. You can see this starting with the recent trends in the classic car market: the 80's cars of all makes are rising rapidly (80's TA's are going up leaps and bounds), and older trucks are making a huge comeback---Broncos, Jeeps, even 70's era pickups are gaining value fast.

90's cars are not on the radar yet. Be patient!

And yes, this is a GREAT looking car! GLWS!

I agree with some of this and disagree with other parts. I'm right on the border of being a millennial (35).

Yes, money is tighter than it was with my parents. I made good decisions and have very little school debt and a good career. Wife has a little school debt. I have friends that have piles of school debt. But they aren't interested in sports/classic/collectors cars regardless. Even my friends who are technically/mechanically inclined. If they were to buy a performance car, it would be new off a dealer lot, or a couple years old. And even the more technically oriented people don't have an indepth knowledge of the automotive industry or car specs, etc. They are much more utilitarian about their cars, and would rather only own one that does as much as possible well, vs. owning multiples that have specific purposes. (hence the popularity of the crossover SUV and 4 door pickups) They don't work on their own cars and only see them as an expensive utilitarian item that they will throw away and replace.

Using late 70s early 80s TAs as your support for the argument that these cars are becoming popular is a terrible example. They went from 20k cars to 120k cars overnight, then right back down to into the 20s/30s. And as asinine as it seems it was due to a couple television shows and media buzz. There were 3-4 that sold for well over 75k, two breaking 100k at Barrett Jackson.

"older trucks are making a huge comeback---Broncos, Jeeps, even 70's era pickups are gaining value fast."

Older broncos have been commanding premium prices for a decade.

You are right about Jeeps. CJ-3, CJ-5, and CJ-7s are on a steep rise. Oddly, they are just now catching up to Broncos despite always being relatively popular.

Older trucks have always had a broad market, but the only ones really on the rise are survivors. You can go to any major auto auction and buy a nice clean ford or chevy pickup that someone else spent 60k restoring/restomodding for 20-30k.

[dvburkley]

C4 zr-1 corvettes are awesome cars. Finally at age 64 (yep, I was 16 in 1970, the apex of the musclecar era) we are able to get a really special car. So I bought a white/red '94 auto 117k LT1 C4 for 6 grand. Car had some issues: would have cost $$$ to make car right. I have the highest paying job of my life - OTR team driver w/wife. Still, i didn't want to wait until I could save 18 - 24 k to buy a c4 Z.
So dealer financing to the rescue: we traded the C4 LT1 for a Quicksilver Metalic '03 Z06 w/ headers, cam and cold air intake. Car makes 404rwhp at 6980 rpm. I still want a ZR-1. Preferably cool colors but available funding will pbly dictate that. The Lt5 Zr-1 will remain a collectable valuable car.
I bought the Z06 instead of a ZR-1 because I could get dealer financing AND because they would take my trade with several issues: A/C, cruise, CD player, 16 year old tires and headlight bushings out. I love your black/red Z. I'd put 600 to 900 miles a year on it and keep it under cover. GLWS awesome car!
Thanks, dvburkley

[rossgn49u]

By the way....the thread was started over 4 years ago.

[spork2367]

By the way....the thread was started over 4 years ago.

And?

[dvburkley]

It is an old thread, but it's one of the best reading discussions from really dedicated vetted guys. Besides, I don't think it ever said the guy sold his car. Who knows? As long as it sometimes takes to sell a vette, he might still have. Also, it's my first post on this forum and I got a cool car. Thanks for reading anyway.

[Vette73]

I disagree with your last sentiment completely. Go check prices on twin turbo Supras and FD RX-7s in the US. They are sky high for low mileage clean cars almost at retail when new or higher. These cars have electronics that make the ZR-1 seem simple and reliable.


People want what they want, and it can't be easily predicted or controlled. I think people want what they lusted for as a kid and couldn't have. That explains why no one is going after Model Ts or 32 T buckets now, because those generations are gone. Our dads all wanted muscle cars as they aged and drove prices through the roof. As they generation leaves us muscle car prices will fall. The current middle aged guys want Supras FD RX7s and Porsches. No one wants 300ZX turbos or Mitsu 3000 GTs though. And very few people want ZR-1s, like it or not, and that is keeping the price low and availability high and sales long.


I'm considering selling my ZR-1 and getting a really clean 944 turbo. Why, because as I age that 944 turbo is going to be worth a whole lot more even though it isn't nearly as much car performance wise. That's a car I can buy, drive on nice days, and leave to my kids and they can enjoy it or sell for a huge profit. The ZR-1 is never going to be that car no matter how much anyone wants it.


The reason air cooled 911s are so high is the perceived notion that the water cooled one are inferior, when in fact its a way better car. You can buy a 996 for ZR-1 money and it has ZR-1 like performance and Porsche quality. I have one of them too and they are cheap.


People want what they want, and actual vehicle performance has zero to do with it in many cases thus the ZR-1 is an underappreciated super car in disguise.


Today's kids are going to be searching for really clean Scion FR-S models and paying out the nose for them. They won't want any old muscle car, an air cooled Porsche or our ZR-1s.

I think in the future the kids of today would want a car that drives itself so they can text all day in it......I can honestly say I do not text and drive....Maybe did it a few times ten years ago or so......

When I am a passenger in lets say an SUV I look over and see countless number of people doing it.....Not trying to be sexist but, females mostly....

I'm like E nuff already !!!!

[Z51JEFF]

I think in the future the kids of today would want a car that drives itself so they can text all day in it......I can honestly say I do not text and drive....Maybe did it a few times ten years ago or so......

When I am a passenger in lets say an SUV I look over and see countless number of people doing it.....Not trying to be sexist but, females mostly....

I'm like E nuff already !!!!

The generations that want a 32 Ford are very much alive today,the reality is not too many can afford $75K and up to build,buy a nice car and an original 32,don’t even bother. I would love to build a 32 3 window full fender Duece and have been in throwing the idea around of selling my Z to help finance the project.