NPP Exhaust Valve Controls

[XfireZ51]

NPP Exhaust Control Valves help control resonance without the weight and backpressure of a resonator. However the use of engine vacuum can also cause the valves to open during low vacuum or high MAP conditions. Typically, this happens on inclines causing the valves to crack open increasing resonance. I recently had the opportunity to find an NPP Retrofit kit by Nakid Parts. However, in trying to install it, it didn't work well or not at all. Everything checked out and it did work when using a brake bleeder as a vacuum source. When applying engine vacuum however the exhaust control valves remained in whatever position they were in with engine start. Everything checked out. NakidParts checked the unit and found it to operate properly. They stated that they had 800 units in operation including one for Jay Leno. Maybe it's an issue w the LT-5 v an LS-3 or LS-7.
Reviewing the electrical, pneumatic circuits there was no reason why it shouldn't work. But it just didn't.as Sherlock Holmes would say to Watson,

'How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?'

It's now clear the solenoid used w the NPP in a Box Retrofit kit has an issue, at least, w LT-5 engine vacuum. mike100 has done his own NPP control using a GM EGR solenoid. I decided to try this solenoid in place of the one used for NIAB retrofit.
So here's a video showing the operation of the NPP retrofit BUT using a GM EGR SOLENOID in place of the stock NIAB solenoid.

http://emob187.photobucket.com/albums/x198/Z51Xfire/ROZA%20NERO/th_C6EBA4A0-CEBC-4F2A-968E-5A1A08B79808_zpsp2t5gnbi.jpg (http://s187.photobucket.com/albums/x198/Z51Xfire/ROZA%20NERO/?action=view&current=C6EBA4A0-CEBC-4F2A-968E-5A1A08B79808_zpsp2t5gnbi.mp4)

[mike100]

Already posted on the other forum, but glad to see you verified function of the solenoid I recommended in the write-up for the next HoTB newsletter.

[XfireZ51]

Already posted on the other forum, but glad to see you verified function of the solenoid I recommended in the write-up for the next HoTB newsletter.

Yep Mike. Works great. Valves snap open and shut smoothly. I happened to look at the remnants of my AIR equipment and noticed that the solenoid used there is the same or very similar. However, it does have a vent at the bottom that leads to the AIR valve.

[efnfast]

Well, ain't that cool!

[Schrade]

Already posted on the other forum, but glad to see you verified function of the solenoid I recommended in the write-up for the next HoTB newsletter.


There's another forum? (that's NOT run by anal-orifeces? )

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I'm still thinkin' on a way to remotely actuate the valves on the PE pipes I got from Jeff [Shrek]; either mechanically, by cable, or vacuum actuation, maybe with the secondary port actuators somehow, which tested functional, before I removed them after top end work...

http://www.powereffects.com/image2.jpg

Either way would call for affixing some sort of arm onto the valve controller knobs:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-MAJgzlQMgmA/Uytk30uLOfE/AAAAAAAAD0Y/QnpJ1ljoabs/s576-c/March202014.jpg

[WARP TEN]

There's another forum? (that's NOT run by anal-orifeces? )

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I'm still thinkin' on a way to remotely actuate the valves on the PE pipes I got from Jeff [Shrek]; either mechanically, by cable, or vacuum actuation, maybe with the secondary port actuators somehow, which tested functional, before I removed them after top end work...

http://www.powereffects.com/image2.jpg

Either way would call for affixing some sort of arm onto the valve controller knobs:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-MAJgzlQMgmA/Uytk30uLOfE/AAAAAAAAD0Y/QnpJ1ljoabs/s576-c/March202014.jpg

You might be able to adapt the QTP motors and wiring to the PE valves. Depends on how much torque it takes to turn the knobs I suppose; also the QTPs only turn the cutout valves 90 degrees. QTPs website has some pdfs on the components but I didn't see info on motor torque etc. --Bob

[XfireZ51]

Have run into a glitch that really has me scratching my head. The M2W remote fob works just fine when the motor is running BUT when the vacuum solenoid and wireless receiver are powered using my little lawn tractor battery as a stand in. However, once I transfer power and ground over to the car BATT and ground, it won't work with engine running. With ignition ON, but no engine start, I can hear the solenoid clicking as I press the fob. Once I start the motor, NADA. Appears that no signal is getting through to the wireless.
At this point, I'm about to give up on the fob and install a ground interrupt switch in the console. I don't see the real value of the fob. It's not like I am going to be walking around the car while it idles and I click the fob on and off.
A toggle switch in the console should work just fine as you drive.
Maybe one of you EE geniuses can come up w a good solution. I may try it just to solve the mystery but otherwise, I've spent way too much time messing w this thing. Altho I definitely want to be able to control the opening and closing of the exhaust valves.

[Schrade]

You might be able to adapt the QTP motors and wiring to the PE valves. Depends on how much torque it takes to turn the knobs I suppose; also the QTPs only turn the cutout valves 90 degrees. QTPs website has some pdfs on the components but I didn't see info on motor torque etc. --Bob
THanks for the lead there Mr. B - will do some reading there...


Dom; any chance that you could PhotoChop the wiring diagram with your wiring chopped into the schematic???

Snappics do show things in a different perspective, AND YOU MIGHT SEE THE PROBLEM / SOLUTION AS YOU MAP IT OUT THERE...

...and, try POWER from lawnmower, with GROUND on car, and then POWER from car, GROUND on mower.................................
Have run into a glitch that really has me scratching my head. The M2W remote fob works just fine when the motor is running BUT when the vacuum solenoid and wireless receiver are powered using my little lawn tractor battery as a stand in. However, once I transfer power and ground over to the car BATT and ground, it won't work with engine running. With ignition ON, but no engine start, I can hear the solenoid clicking as I press the fob. Once I start the motor, NADA. Appears that no signal is getting through to the wireless.
At this point, I'm about to give up on the fob and install a ground interrupt switch in the console. I don't see the real value of the fob. It's not like I am going to be walking around the car while it idles and I click the fob on and off.
A toggle switch in the console should work just fine as you drive.
Maybe one of you EE geniuses can come up w a good solution. I may try it just to solve the mystery but otherwise, I've spent way too much time messing w this thing. Altho I definitely want to be able to control the opening and closing of the exhaust valves.

[XfireZ51]

OK. Decided to forego the fob. However, I have it connected so if I ever figure out what the issue is, I can use the fob as an alternative. Frankly, I don't see myself wanting to close or open the exhaust valves when I am outside of the car with motor running.

Here's my solution. BTW it was idling like that and THEN I realized I had left off the brake booster hose AND the vacuum supply to the Fuel Pressure Regulator. DOH!

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x198/Z51Xfire/Mobile%20Uploads/th_A93995D6-BB76-4C59-8768-02375490F82D_zpso146bwfk.jpg (http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x198/Z51Xfire/Mobile%20Uploads/A93995D6-BB76-4C59-8768-02375490F82D_zpso146bwfk.mp4)

[Schrade]

OK. Decided to forego the fob. However, I have it connected so if I ever figure out what the issue is, I can use the fob as an alternative. Frankly, I don't see myself wanting to close or open the exhaust valves when I am outside of the car with motor running.

Here's my solution. BTW it was idling like that and THEN I realized I had left off the brake booster hose AND the vacuum supply to the Fuel Pressure Regulator. DOH!

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x198/Z51Xfire/Mobile%20Uploads/th_A93995D6-BB76-4C59-8768-02375490F82D_zpso146bwfk.jpg (http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x198/Z51Xfire/Mobile%20Uploads/A93995D6-BB76-4C59-8768-02375490F82D_zpso146bwfk.mp4)

So your vacuum was off when you plugged in the actuator?

Doesn't that warrant a re-try?

http://www.zr1.net/forum/images/icons/icon5.gif

[XfireZ51]

Chuck,

The motor starts w vacuum ON for the actuators. Flipping the switch un-grounds the solenoid and vents the vacuum exposing the actuators to atmosphere and therefore open. Not sure I understand your question. The fob is not involved here.

[aafc]

I installed the power effects complete cat back system on my 1990 ZR-1 back
in Aug 1997. At that time the company ( Lawrence- Kaech inc. ) offered a
electric motor to open and close each power capsules. I ordered some gaskets
for my system ( I'am always taken exhaust off to work on the auto install )
last year in July. You could try and call him to see what type of motor they
used. below is the contact information.

Lawrence-Kaech inc.
1800H Industrial Park Drive
Grand Haven, MI. 49417
phone 616-847-4200
fax 616-847-4210
Hope this helps
John Becker
1990 white/black #2546
one of a few auto ( 4l80E ) eq. ZR-1's
member #0115

[Schrade]

Chuck,

The motor starts w vacuum ON for the actuators. Flipping the switch un-grounds the solenoid and vents the vacuum exposing the actuators to atmosphere and therefore open. Not sure I understand your question. The fob is not involved here.

Got it there Dom; either rig a spring-loaded arm for the 'return' position, or a second vacuum line for 'return' position...

...or a mechanical linkage........................................... ............

[XfireZ51]

I installed the power effects complete cat back system on my 1990 ZR-1 back
in Aug 1997. At that time the company ( Lawrence- Kaech inc. ) offered a
electric motor to open and close each power capsules. I ordered some gaskets
for my system ( I'am always taken exhaust off to work on the auto install )
last year in July. You could try and call him to see what type of motor they
used. below is the contact information.

Lawrence-Kaech inc.
1800H Industrial Park Drive
Grand Haven, MI. 49417
phone 616-847-4200
fax 616-847-4210
Hope this helps
John Becker
1990 white/black #2546
one of a few auto ( 4l80E ) eq. ZR-1's
member #0115

John,

Thanks but that's not necessary. Now with the installation of the ground interrupt switch, actuators work fine. You can see the video of the valves in operation in an earlier post of this thread.

[Schrade]

I think aafc was directing his post @ me there Dom, since I have PE pipes (and by coincidence, an automatic)...

Thanks there aafc; got it!

[XfireZ51]

I think aafc was directing his post @ me there Dom, since I have PE pipes (and by coincidence, an automatic)...

Thanks there aafc; got it!

Oops.

[rkreigh]

hi folks, I have a set of the C6 Z06 tips and am interested in a "controllable" setup that allows the system to do the following

1. open on low vacuum (under load) but ONLY after 3000 RPM (RPM activated switch)

2. full time open

3. full time closed

I don't have secondaries anymore so the factory vacuum pump up front could be used.

don't want to spend a ton on this either.

any ideas???

I'd settle for just #1 as that's the biggest requirement. thinking an RPM activated vacuum switch or valve might do the trick combined with a small vacuum reservoir.

hell I might just do this with some old servos from my RC planes and just do it all electric. I'd need a circuit to step down the voltage or just better yet find some 12 volt electric actuators (like the quick time idea)

lots of options, but so far nothing that does what I really want.

might try this on the Turbo Z06 first before cutting up the B&B which is all polished up and looking purdy right now. I love the bark of the LT5 but it's a bit loud for trips.

[XfireZ51]

Ron,

mike100 has the setup ur looking for. He has a write up on it. Mine is manual using a toggle switch which is satisfactory for me. The secondary circuit can provide switched power for the vacuum solenoid. I use vacuum from the charcoal canister supply.
The rpm signal can come from the DIAG connector near the firewall.

[Paul Workman]

hi folks, I have a set of the C6 Z06 tips and am interested in a "controllable" setup that allows the system to do the following

1. open on low vacuum (under load) but ONLY after 3000 RPM (RPM activated switch)

2. full time open

3. full time closed

I don't have secondaries anymore so the factory vacuum pump up front could be used.

don't want to spend a ton on this either.

any ideas???

I'd settle for just #1 as that's the biggest requirement. thinking an RPM activated vacuum switch or valve might do the trick combined with a small vacuum reservoir.

hell I might just do this with some old servos from my RC planes and just do it all electric. I'd need a circuit to step down the voltage or just better yet find some 12 volt electric actuators (like the quick time idea)

lots of options, but so far nothing that does what I really want.

might try this on the Turbo Z06 first before cutting up the B&B which is all polished up and looking purdy right now. I love the bark of the LT5 but it's a bit loud for trips.

Coming Soon!

As a matter of fact, Mike 100s article is due to appear in the up coming issue of HOTB, scheduled to be released in April. It is very comprehensive and has both vacuum and rpm considerations to prevent opening under normal highway loads such as hills, etc.

[mike100]

hi folks, I have a set of the C6 Z06 tips and am interested in a "controllable" setup that allows the system to do the following

1. open on low vacuum (under load) but ONLY after 3000 RPM (RPM activated switch)

...

don't want to spend a ton on this either.

...

It's cheap, especially if you are willing to scrounge for some of the parts used. The mufflers and the welding labor are the big cost. I'd say $100-$150 dollars more for a complete system. I personally used the more expensive German style braided vacuum line, but you could save a ton there. I already had clamps and tie-wraps, but you could maybe add $10 for misc hardware..parts store plastic vacuum T's, etc.

The two must order items only come out to $75 or so.

[rkreigh]

sounds like exactly what I'm after

anyone have a link to the write up?

thanks!:cheers:

[mike100]

sounds like exactly what I'm after

anyone have a link to the write up?

thanks!:cheers:

It's in the upcoming HoTB issue for April. (so no, not yet).

[USAZR1]

I wonder if this Mild2Wild set-up would work on our cars?
http://www.qpcpv.com/topflightreproductions/id34.html

[mike100]

I wonder if this Mild2Wild set-up would work on our cars?
http://www.qpcpv.com/topflightreproductions/id34.html

M2W doesn't work stand-alone. You might search for "NPP in a box"- it is more geared to adding to cars without the system. It doesn't have any kind of rpm or engine load activation- Quite honestly, there's better ways to do it and cheaper too (The remote control is a nice toy, but it's just a wireless switch).

[XfireZ51]

USA,

What I have realized with mike100's help is that the NPP in a Box does not do what I THOUGHT it was supposed to do. I won't suggest that NPP is misrepresenting the operation of their NIAB unit. In fairness, NakidParts never designed this unit for installation in a C4. From reading the promotional material it "seemed" that NIAB would allow me to open and close the NPP actuators as I wanted to. That the actuators would remain closed regardless of throttle position or manifold vacuum. The conclusion that myself and Mike have come to is that
NIAB is really designed to allow the NPP actuators to open and stay open. However, the other position of the system is to simply allow the actuators to move with the swings in vacuum. IOW, you could get drone in situations when
Manifold vacuum drops allowing the actuators to open. My goal has been to keep the actuators closed in those situations. Mike and I have discussed how to do that. Mike will be presenting his solution(s). I am putting together something a bit less sophisticated but to do what I am looking to do. In the end, these configurations will cost substantially less than the $189 for the NIAB unit.

[USAZR1]

USA,

What I have realized with mike100's help is that the NPP in a Box does not do what I THOUGHT it was supposed to do. I won't suggest that NPP is misrepresenting the operation of their NIAB unit. In fairness, NakidParts never designed this unit for installation in a C4. From reading the promotional material it "seemed" that NIAB would allow me to open and close the NPP actuators as I wanted to. That the actuators would remain closed regardless of throttle position or manifold vacuum. The conclusion that myself and Mike have come to is that
NIAB is really designed to allow the NPP actuators to open and stay open. However, the other position of the system is to simply allow the actuators to move with the swings in vacuum. IOW, you could get drone in situations when
Manifold vacuum drops allowing the actuators to open. My goal has been to keep the actuators closed in those situations. Mike and I have discussed how to do that. Mike will be presenting his solution(s). I am putting together something a bit less sophisticated but to do what I am looking to do. In the end, these configurations will cost substantially less than the $189 for the NIAB unit.


Trust me,Dom,,I'm paying attention to what you,Mike,and others are doing with this "problem". Thanks for letting me tag along and ask questions.

[rkreigh]

I'm thinking some electric actuators like quicktime uses might be better

for now I'm going to just hook mine up to the canister vacuum and call it a day until this gets sorted out.

I've got the tips, just need to take the plunge and hack up a B&B

thinking about replacing the muffler with free flowing alternative as I understand the B&B "new style" mufflers make it more restrictive than the corsa.

time to fix that and let the beast eat.

[XfireZ51]

I'm thinking some electric actuators like quicktime uses might be better

for now I'm going to just hook mine up to the canister vacuum and call it a day until this gets sorted out.

I've got the tips, just need to take the plunge and hack up a B&B

thinking about replacing the muffler with free flowing alternative as I understand the B&B "new style" mufflers make it more restrictive than the corsa.

time to fix that and let the beast eat.

Ron,

If you are going to spend the money and effort to hack the B+B, then just buy the DynoMax UltraFlows, sell the B+B including the resonator, and install the NPP
tips on the DynoMax. Install an EGR solenoid ($35 from Rock Auto), rocker switch ($4 from Radio Shack), and a one way check valve ($11 from NAPA).
That's the simplest setup, or do the mike100 system with RPM/Vacuum control.

[XfireZ51]

Next step in NPP controls install, check valve.
This will seal pipe from engine to solenoid whenever plenum drops vacuum.
Since the pipe runs from front to back, it will act as a "reservoir" providing a buffer from the variation in engine vacuum. That's why I've installed it by the blower motor. $8 from NAPA.
Now when I have solenoid closed, actuator will stay shut regardless of throttle opening. If I flip switch in console, the actuators will remain open, again regardless of throttle position.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x198/Z51Xfire/Mobile%20Uploads/4FC0FD2D-9381-49D8-8F87-666B126C6C4A_zpse1tqjitj.jpg

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x198/Z51Xfire/Mobile%20Uploads/ACB4CB85-FE6C-44C9-8AE5-DD203CB13BED_zpsdazbpwi7.jpg


Here's the EGR SOLENOID connected to the console switch via circuit starting in engine bay.
This is installed by the disconnected Charcoal Canister in rear passenger side corner.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x198/Z51Xfire/Mobile%20Uploads/EEB8678D-90D7-4D67-A321-688D3FF4ADC4_zpsqj1gldhk.jpg

[mike100]

That studded bracket was quite useful on my installation also.

[XfireZ51]

That studded bracket was quite useful on my installation also.

Mike,

The way I have this wired would allow me to use the wireless fob IF I can determine how to make it work. Altho don't have a ton of initiative at this point on that front.

[XfireZ51]

OK. Time to see how the check valve works.

Here's the NPP control installed in rear quarter

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x198/Z51Xfire/IMG_0886_zps7a1b3c1e.jpg (http://s187.photobucket.com/user/Z51Xfire/media/IMG_0886_zps7a1b3c1e.jpg.html)

And then here's the NPP control working w the check valve in-line. so this will give me a ON/OFF capability depending on which way the console rocker switch is set.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x198/Z51Xfire/th_IMG_0887_zps8f8c4c9a.jpg (http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x198/Z51Xfire/IMG_0887_zps8f8c4c9a.mp4)

[mike100]

Yeah...I gotta add an off switch to mine as well...easy enough, but where to put it?

The NPP trick is all well and good, but it is still very loud when they open up (got pulled over again). So... I need the totally turn it off when I'm in certain parts of town since the temptation to pull a gear is just too strong sometimes.

[XfireZ51]

Bolted a pair of borrowed seats from PW and so I was able to drive the car. Took it this morning for a wheel alignment. This gave me a chance to try out the NPP control. It really sounds sweet driving w the actuators closed. You get a nice purrrrr from the back. There is some 'boom" at 12-1300rpm, but flip the switch and it really gets louder. Very noticeable. The switch works just great. An hour after shutting down, the actuators were still closed indicating that the system was holding vacuum very nicely.

[Karl]

Will something like this work instead?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/150727996468?nav=SEARCH

[XfireZ51]

Mike,

I ran a ground interrupt circuit to a simple toggle switch I installed in one of the "cup holder" recesses of the console. That, together w the vacuum check valve is working well in terms of either keeping the actuators fully open or closed shut.
I'll also reiterate that a portion of the loudness and flabby sound of the exhaust is related to a "too rich" fuel mixture. I observed that sometime ago and have confirmed it with my latest tuning sessions working w injector offset values.