Clutch Reservoir Empty

[emmvette]

64 degrees, what a great day to come home after work and fire up the beast from its long winter sleep! Started right up after reconnecting the battery. Tried to put it in reverse and back out of the garage and the clutch pedal went right to the floor. Wow, I don't remember it being that way....

After figuring out the reservoir was hiding under the ECM, I found it to be basically empty except for a small bit of sludge that I sucked out. So for now, my car is under a lift with another car above it and I can't back it out to work on it. My question is can I just fill the reservoir and do some clutch pumps to get it to work enough to move it around so I can work on it?

If so, can somebody give me the quick list of how to do this? Is it as simple as leaving the reservoir lid off and doing some slow, half strokes with the clutch pedal, or is there something else that has to be done?

I see in the Solutions sections mention of a bleeder on the slave, but I can't get to it where the car sits.

[Dynomite]

My question is can I just fill the reservoir and do some clutch pumps to get it to work enough to move it around so I can work on it?

If so, can somebody give me the quick list of how to do this? Is it as simple as leaving the reservoir lid off and doing some slow, half strokes with the clutch pedal, or is there something else that has to be done?

I see in the Solutions sections mention of a bleeder on the slave, but I can't get to it where the car sits.

This just happened to me on a 90' I drove home on 4th of March.....Just wipe out the black sludge (clean) and add Dot 3 or Dot 4. Fill to within 1/2 inch of top and leave open while pumping the clutch slowly (full strokes) in and hold...then slowly out and wait a minute..then repeat about 10 times. You will have plenty clutch. Just look underneath next few days to determine if you have a leak or you just ran out of clutch fluid slowly.

Lift off ECM and rotate out of way. Take a large Channel Lock that will grip firmly around plastic reservoir and another large Channel Lock that will grip around cap....twist cap (loosen) counterclockwise.

[emmvette]

Got it for tonight, thank you for the affirmation! It's time to get my spring to do list in order and start working / learning with the car so when the warm days come she will be ready. Maybe its a "He"; it does have a lot of attitude. Then again so does my better half...

[Dynomite]

Got it for tonight, thank you for the affirmation! It's time to get my spring to do list in order and start working / learning with the car so when the warm days come she will be ready. Maybe its a "He"; it does have a lot of attitude. Then again so does my better half...
If you see no leaks on the floor but still have a soft clutch.....it is leaking internally (leaking back). Then time to rebuild Clutch Slave Cylinder or Master Cylinder. Or buy a new clutch Slave Cylinder.

Just drove my 90' out tonight after a top end rebuild and found Clutch Slave leaking internally. Will replace both Clutch Slave and Master Cylinders tomorrow with a used unit still connected Master to Slave.

Oh....Them new RC injectors are MIGHTY FINE.....cured a bit of a hesitation with Full Power Switch ON ;)

[scottfab]

...snip....
My question is can I just fill the reservoir and do some clutch pumps to get it to work enough to move it around so I can work on it?

...snip....

I'd push it around if necessary. First thing to do is
inspect the bell housing for fluid before any newly added fluid splashes around on the clutch plate. (mistake)

[XfireZ51]

Check to see if your driver's side carpet is wet w oil. Up the firewall. I change my fluid using Ranger's method. Makes it real easy to keep fresh fluid in there.

[lisounds]

http://www.powertorquesystems.com/

jim can rebuild your original slave unit if that is the problem

[Mr Blue]

Maybe its a "He"; it does have a lot of attitude. Then again so does my better half...

Thats how the moniker Mr. Blue came to be. My wife said the ZR-1 had too much power and additude (testosterone) for a feminine title. so she claims. She named the car Mr. Blue, so that became my forum I.D.
Good luck with the clutch. Post the outcome.

David

[FU]

http://www.powertorquesystems.com/

jim can rebuild your original slave unit if that is the problem

What part of LI are you from ??


Pardon for the interfearing with the thread OP.

[Gunny]

http://www.powertorquesystems.com/

jim can rebuild your original slave unit if that is the problem


Been there, done that ... Jim does a great job with clutch masters & slaves.

[emmvette]

OK, so the slave is leaking.... On the 1990 it is hard "piped" in, not flexible tubing and the CAGS is in the way to put a new slave back in. How can you remove the CAGS cylinder? Can't get to the two nuts on it due to the angle they come at the trans.

[Dynomite]

OK, so the slave is leaking.... On the 1990 it is hard "piped" in, not flexible tubing and the CAGS is in the way to put a new slave back in. How can you remove the CAGS cylinder? Can't get to the two nuts on it due to the angle they come at the trans.

I was under my 90' most of the day fooling around with the Slave and Master Clutch Cylinder....I had an extra Slave and Master Cylinder but bleeding that ^&^*^&*%^$&#((*&(....well you get the picture. I just ordered a NEW Master Cylinder and Slave Cylinder from Jerry.

It turns out I could remove the two nuts on the Slave Cylinder and slip it out from the studs and down (the hard line will slip between the bell housing and drivers tunnel). The hard line has a rubber hose section about 12-18 inches from the hard line (a 12 inch more or less section of rubber hose between two hard lines). This rubber hose section allows the Slave Cylinder movement flexibility which allowed me to move the Slave Cylinder down below the exhaust pipe. I used a 13mm open end on the tube connection on the Slave Cylinder. Loosen that connection and remove the tubing from the Slave Cylinder.

Now it you are saying the New Slave Cylinder is a bit different and cannot be installed as easy as the old Slave Cylinder was removed.....let me know as I will run into this issue myself next Tue when I receive the New Master Cylinder and New Slave Cylinder from Jerry :handshak:

[emmvette]

Got the replacement one from Jim @ powertorquesys and he helped me put it in; the new one has a bleeder which makes it taller and a little more challenging to install, but it did go. My aftermarket exhaust was in the way and caused some grief along with the CAGS sticking out in the way. If I had to do this again; I would probably drop the exhaust first as it caused the job to take an extra couple hours.

We decided to go ahead and have Jim rebuild the master as well so I won't have to worry about the clutch hydraulics for quite some time. So it is now pulled out.

I'd still like to know how the heck the CAGS can come off. I guess everybody just disables it and leaves it on. If my trans comes out - I'll pull it off without question.

[emmvette]

Master is back in and everything bled with a bunch of clutch pumps. Took it for a littel test drive to make sure everything works. Its all in great functioning perfectly. Thanks again to Jim at www.powertorquesystems.com !!!!

Snow is coming, so back to winter for a day. Should have some sun and 70's soon enough.

[Mystic ZR-1]

Anybody have any tips and tricks to ensure the shaft from
the slave centers on the socket of the clutch fork? You can't see it,
and have to work by feel, which didn't work...
And while we're at it,
what genius put the bleed port on the bottom of the new slave?
Had to back fill via the bleed valve to get the air out, flushed over a pint thru a system that probably holds only a few ounces.

[BigJohn]

Took C16 out for a drive today!
Think we sould change clutch and brake fluid in the 96????????

[Dynomite]

Anybody have any tips and tricks to ensure the shaft from
the slave centers on the socket of the clutch fork? You can't see it, and have to work by feel, which didn't work...
And while we're at it, what genius put the bleed port on the bottom of the new slave?
Had to back fill via the bleed valve to get the air out, flushed over a pint thru a system that probably holds only a few ounces.
First tighten the fitting on top of Clutch Slave Cylinder so steel line us parallel with Slave Cylinder. Loosen bleeder. Depress Slave Cylinder shaft and insert into bell housing such that shaft us centered in bell housing port then depress Slave cylinder shaft further to install nuts on Slave Cylinder studs.

Now.......fill (2/3 full) Master Cylinder reservoir with DOT 3 or DOT 4. As someone pumps clutch, open bleeder on Slave Cylinder each pump untill you get fluid. Close Bleeder. Continue to pump clutch holding 5 sec each time and release for 5 seconds. You will see some bubbles each release in Master Cylinder Reservoir. Continue untill you have Clutch release (keep Clutch Master Cylinder Reservoir 2/3 full at all times). Fill Master Cylinder Reservoir 3/4 full as Clutch Slave will continue to self bleed as you drive.

[XfireZ51]

I've been using Ranger's method of changing clutch fluid for the last several years. Makes it easy and works without needing to get under the car.

Watch this video

http://youtu.be/gBbsy0LjUvE

[MuRCieLaGo]

I have seen on www.zfdoc.com that one the main reasons of transmission failure is because of a bad slave cylinder bleeding.

I changed my slave cylinder 2 years ago (about 1,000 miles driven since then).
I tried to use the traditional 2-men method on the slave but it didn't seem to be very effective... I've got 3 other sports cars and lots of other things to do at the same time, can I just use the gravity method? Gravity method: I pump the clutch pedal 100 times, release pedal, open clutch bleeder, wait for (how long?), close bleeder, re-fill reservoir (make sure it stayed over LOW position) and I should be good to go? I only wait to release the air, not to replace to old fluid. To replace old fluid, I would guess the 2-men method would be good, before gravity bleeding it?

What do you guys think?

[Paul Workman]

I have seen on www.zfdoc.com that one the main reasons of transmission failure is because of a bad slave cylinder bleeding.

I changed my slave cylinder 2 years ago (about 1,000 miles driven since then).
I tried to use the traditional 2-men method on the slave but it didn't seem to be very effective... I've got 3 other sports cars and lots of other things to do at the same time, can I just use the gravity method? Gravity method: I pump the clutch pedal 100 times, release pedal, open clutch bleeder, wait for (how long?), close bleeder, re-fill reservoir (make sure it stayed over LOW position) and I should be good to go? I only wait to release the air, not to replace to old fluid. To replace old fluid, I would guess the 2-men method would be good, before gravity bleeding it?

What do you guys think?

Lots of ways to "skin a cat", OR purge the air from the clutch hydraulics. But, what makes you think you have air in the clutch hydraulics?

I realize you said you don't want to change the fluid, but, why the heck NOT(?) - might as well 'while you're down there anyway, right? Two years is plenty of time for contaminates (water, mostly) to need purging. Might as well 'kill two birds w/ one stone' (so to speak).

Lemme just say this, far as purging the air goes: I'm NOT a big fan of pumping the clutch pedal 'a gazillion times' to try to get the air out. The trick is not to have air in the slave in the first place: any number of ways to accomplish that (e.g., pre-bleeding, etc.) Initially, pumping the clutch pedal method only gets the big air pockets out. But, the rest of the air? Continued pumping of the pedal tends to turn any air residing in the (slave) into an emulsion; a cloudy mix of hydraulic fluid and tiny bubbles (if you could see inside the slave). It will eventually work the emulsion out, IF you have the time before your knee gives out!:thumbsdo:

Here's what can happen: Every time the clutch pedal is released, some of that emulsion is forced into the hydraulic line going to the MASTER cylinder and very limited amount (of the emulsion) actually escapes into the clutch reservoir. Then when the pedal is pressed again, fresh fluid has to push that emulsion trapped in the hydraulic line back into the slave. And, by the time fresh fluid arrives, it is at the end of the pedal stroke - very limited amount of fresh, clean fluid enters the slave. As a result, whatever fresh fluid does reach the slave, it serves only to dilute the emulsion that exists there. With each repeated pedal stroke, the emulsion is further diluted, but never completely purged: whatever air emulsion that remains will result in makinh the clutch "spongy" at a minimum, or (worse) fail to disengage the clutch completely - causing difficult shifts and damaging the gear teeth!


My preferred method doesn't necessarily require any special tools - nice, but not absolutely necessary. By using the slave cylinder as a vacuum pump, starting by letting the slave cylinder (detached from the bell housing) to hang by the hydraulic hose. This will result in the air rising to the bleeder valve end of the slave cylinder. Note: If the slave isn't already filled with fluid (i.e., flushing an existing cylinder) if possible to pre-fill the save cylinder with fresh fluid, doing so will speed the process by reducing the number of the next steps in getting the air out.
Crack open the bleeder attach a CLEAR plastic hose to the bleeder at one end and into a container at the other.
Now push the plunger rod (slowly) into the slave*, forcing air and/or the fluid out through the clear plastic tube and into the container. But, before allowing the slave's spring to push the plunger rod back out (here's the tricky part), CLOSE the bleeder valve first!
With the bleeder valve closed, allow the slave to force the plunger out, thus drawing fresh fluid from the MASTER reservoir into the SLAVE cylinder.
Repeat as many times as necessary until the fluid in the tube is running clear and free of any signs of air. Just DO NOT FORGET to close the bleeder before allowing the SLAVE to force the plunger out or AIR will be drawn in and the process has to be repeated.
Align the SLAVE to the bell housing with the plunger against the clutch fork. Forcing the assembly into place will push fluid back into the MASTER RESERVOIR. The point being, if the level in that reservoir is too high, it will run over and you wouldn't want hydraulic fluid to get into your eyes!
Test the clutch pedal to see that it is firm (normal - not mushy) and engages near the top of the stroke.
If all seems to be working properly, put the car on the ground, start the engine, and with the clutch engaged, try shifting through the gears.



*Suggestion; I force the plunger rod against the car's frame (or something) while gripping the body of the slave cylinder with one hand, and holding an open end wrench to operate the bleeder valve with the other hand. (Here's where a SPEED BLEEDER installed on the 91+ slave cylinder would come in very handy! And, too...attaching a separate bleeder kit reservoir to keep the MASTER reservoir from running out of fluid is a special tool I can highly recommend!) (see attached)

It should shift smoothly into any gear. Failure to shift into any ONE gear, may be an indication of synchro wear for that gear. But, difficulty or "notchy" shifting into any gear is one symptom of either air in the hydraulics, OR another problem stemming from worn or damaged seals in either the MASTER or SLAVE cylinders.

[XfireZ51]

I’ve been using the “Ranger” method of replacing clutch fluid for the last 5-6 years now. Use suction to remove old fluid from reservoir, add a liitle fluid to cover the bottom of reservoir, then pump. Remove fluid that is contaminated. Rinse and repeat until pumping no longer brings up any further contamination.
Then fill reservoir to level and pump about 50 times to make sure any air has been removed.
Done,

[Paul Workman]

I’ve been using the “Ranger” method of replacing clutch fluid for the last 5-6 years now. Use suction to remove old fluid from reservoir, add a liitle fluid to cover the bottom of reservoir, then pump. Remove fluid that is contaminated. Rinse and repeat until pumping no longer brings up any further contamination.
Then fill reservoir to level and pump about 50 times to make sure any air has been removed.
Done,

That's right, Dom, IF one is only changing the fluid, i.e., periodic maintenance. (I may be 'cornfoozed'.:confused: I thought (assumed) he was replacing the SLAVE, b/c that was the symptom mine had before I replace my entire clutch system.)

[XfireZ51]

That's right, Dom, IF one is only changing the fluid, i.e., periodic maintenance. (I may be 'cornfoozed'.:confused: I thought (assumed) he was replacing the SLAVE, b/c that was the symptom mine had before I replace my entire clutch system.)

Sounded like he just needed to fill reservoir at this point. It didn’t appear that he needed to replace slave. I would check footwell and see if its wet w oil.

[mhobtr]

I recently bought a Mityvac pressure bleeder. My initial reaction has been that it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

It came with an adapter that will both the fit the clutch and brake reservoirs on my ZR1.

I wish I had bought one years ago. Especially to use on C2's to get those stubborn air bubbles out of the tops of the calipers without having to remove them.

[MuRCieLaGo]

Lots of ways to "skin a cat", OR purge the air from the clutch hydraulics. But, what makes you think you have air in the clutch hydraulics?

I realize you said you don't want to change the fluid, but, why the heck NOT(?) - might as well 'while you're down there anyway, right? Two years is plenty of time for contaminates (water, mostly) to need purging. Might as well 'kill two birds w/ one stone' (so to speak).

Lemme just say this, far as purging the air goes: I'm NOT a big fan of pumping the clutch pedal 'a gazillion times' to try to get the air out. The trick is not to have air in the slave in the first place: any number of ways to accomplish that (e.g., pre-bleeding, etc.) Initially, pumping the clutch pedal method only gets the big air pockets out. But, the rest of the air? Continued pumping of the pedal tends to turn any air residing in the (slave) into an emulsion; a cloudy mix of hydraulic fluid and tiny bubbles (if you could see inside the slave). It will eventually work the emulsion out, IF you have the time before your knee gives out!:thumbsdo:

Here's what can happen: Every time the clutch pedal is released, some of that emulsion is forced into the hydraulic line going to the MASTER cylinder and very limited amount (of the emulsion) actually escapes into the clutch reservoir. Then when the pedal is pressed again, fresh fluid has to push that emulsion trapped in the hydraulic line back into the slave. And, by the time fresh fluid arrives, it is at the end of the pedal stroke - very limited amount of fresh, clean fluid enters the slave. As a result, whatever fresh fluid does reach the slave, it serves only to dilute the emulsion that exists there. With each repeated pedal stroke, the emulsion is further diluted, but never completely purged: whatever air emulsion that remains will result in makinh the clutch "spongy" at a minimum, or (worse) fail to disengage the clutch completely - causing difficult shifts and damaging the gear teeth!


My preferred method doesn't necessarily require any special tools - nice, but not absolutely necessary. By using the slave cylinder as a vacuum pump, starting by letting the slave cylinder (detached from the bell housing) to hang by the hydraulic hose. This will result in the air rising to the bleeder valve end of the slave cylinder. Note: If the slave isn't already filled with fluid (i.e., flushing an existing cylinder) if possible to pre-fill the save cylinder with fresh fluid, doing so will speed the process by reducing the number of the next steps in getting the air out.
Crack open the bleeder attach a CLEAR plastic hose to the bleeder at one end and into a container at the other.
Now push the plunger rod (slowly) into the slave*, forcing air and/or the fluid out through the clear plastic tube and into the container. But, before allowing the slave's spring to push the plunger rod back out (here's the tricky part), CLOSE the bleeder valve first!
With the bleeder valve closed, allow the slave to force the plunger out, thus drawing fresh fluid from the MASTER reservoir into the SLAVE cylinder.
Repeat as many times as necessary until the fluid in the tube is running clear and free of any signs of air. Just DO NOT FORGET to close the bleeder before allowing the SLAVE to force the plunger out or AIR will be drawn in and the process has to be repeated.
Align the SLAVE to the bell housing with the plunger against the clutch fork. Forcing the assembly into place will push fluid back into the MASTER RESERVOIR. The point being, if the level in that reservoir is too high, it will run over and you wouldn't want hydraulic fluid to get into your eyes!
Test the clutch pedal to see that it is firm (normal - not mushy) and engages near the top of the stroke.
If all seems to be working properly, put the car on the ground, start the engine, and with the clutch engaged, try shifting through the gears.



*Suggestion; I force the plunger rod against the car's frame (or something) while gripping the body of the slave cylinder with one hand, and holding an open end wrench to operate the bleeder valve with the other hand. (Here's where a SPEED BLEEDER installed on the 91+ slave cylinder would come in very handy! And, too...attaching a separate bleeder kit reservoir to keep the MASTER reservoir from running out of fluid is a special tool I can highly recommend!) (see attached)

It should shift smoothly into any gear. Failure to shift into any ONE gear, may be an indication of synchro wear for that gear. But, difficulty or "notchy" shifting into any gear is one symptom of either air in the hydraulics, OR another problem stemming from worn or damaged seals in either the MASTER or SLAVE cylinders.

That's a seriously great explanation Paul... Once again thanks a lot for your help! I will try it this winter. I don't have any symptom but I feel like I didn't do a good bleeding job last time. I can't comment on your procedure because I am working on other cars right now, I will repost later on.

Thank you!