Brainstorming future brake upgrade

[JimZRyd]

Hey guys...let me burn your minds a little here. I am planning wheels and tires this year as my annual mod so I'm going to have to wait a little before I do a BBK. Still, I feel the stock brakes need a little refreshening so that they'll look good behind the new wheels. At this point I'm thinking of putting on a new set of rotors and pads and just clean up the stock calipers and save some cash.

I have previously installed a set of Baer Eradispeeds on my old C5 and loved them! Looked way cool and performed well. Really didn't keep the car much longer after the upgrade so I can't speak of longevity. So this is one option, probably just a set of their Decelerators and do a 2 piece set when I do the BBK. Not sure if the Decelerators are zinc coated or not, are they?

Another thought is a set of the DBA rotors with the neat slotted design. Specifically looking at their series 4000 T3 one piece rotors as an option to the Baer Decelerators. A set of either will run about the same price. The DBA's come with slots and not cross drilled or you can get them drilled. I'm kinda leaning towards just slotted this time. I don't track my Z but do enjoy some spirited driving so I don't really need to go all out on a track kind of set up.

I know a lot of you guys out their run the Baers but does anybody have any experience with the DBA's? I feel cross drilled/ slotted or just slotted is really a matter of taste if the car is just a street machine and not a track car. If I was going to use it strictly on a track I'd def go with slotted. I'm just brainstorming here and searching for info and options.

Anybody want to chime in please do so. Thanks in advance!

[USAZR1]

I'm biased towards the Baers but they cost quite a bit more. Don't know that much about DBA.

[POWERBRAKEBOB]

3384
This is how to fix those brakes. 1" Delco master, same as C-4, with Hydroboost POWER

[GOLDCYLON]

Hey guys...let me burn your minds a little here. I am planning wheels and tires this year as my annual mod so I'm going to have to wait a little before I do a BBK. Still, I feel the stock brakes need a little refreshening so that they'll look good behind the new wheels. At this point I'm thinking of putting on a new set of rotors and pads and just clean up the stock calipers and save some cash.

I have previously installed a set of Baer Eradispeeds on my old C5 and loved them! Looked way cool and performed well. Really didn't keep the car much longer after the upgrade so I can't speak of longevity. So this is one option, probably just a set of their Decelerators and do a 2 piece set when I do the BBK. Not sure if the Decelerators are zinc coated or not, are they?

Another thought is a set of the DBA rotors with the neat slotted design. Specifically looking at their series 4000 T3 one piece rotors as an option to the Baer Decelerators. A set of either will run about the same price. The DBA's come with slots and not cross drilled or you can get them drilled. I'm kinda leaning towards just slotted this time. I don't track my Z but do enjoy some spirited driving so I don't really need to go all out on a track kind of set up.

I know a lot of you guys out their run the Baers but does anybody have any experience with the DBA's? I feel cross drilled/ slotted or just slotted is really a matter of taste if the car is just a street machine and not a track car. If I was going to use it strictly on a track I'd def go with slotted. I'm just brainstorming here and searching for info and options.

Anybody want to chime in please do so. Thanks in advance!

I have a pair of gently used 13 inch front Baer Eradispeeds available if interested. Picked these up as a spare with only 5K miles on em. GC ;)

[Kevin]

Posting this as a member: not a mod

Sorry bob, not buying it. I've seen you push this here and on facebook and yet still not explain how "more power doesn't equal more heat". More friction, which what more braking power is, equals more heat, that's why even carbon rotors will glow when slowing down but somehow you figured out how to do what top line race teams can't.



The C5 upgrade seems to be popular for our cars

[POWERBRAKEBOB]

I have been in the Specialty brake business for 45 years at approx. 80-100 hrs per week. Yes, I DO know brakes. I design, build them and go test them. The bolt pattern on the Australian boosters will not accommodate a 1" master of ANY kind. So, yes you can install 20" tors and 12 pistion calipers into absurdity, and nothing matters until you have enough Pressure to APPLY them. I build brake boosters for the handicapped. NO absurd brake rotors in a Dodge van. it is all done with high pressure boosters.
IF there is anyone here who IS more qualified to design and build brake boosters, let him speak up and prove it.

[Kevin]

I understand but would still like to know how this is technically better? Not sold on it yet.

Thanks

[FU]

Is it correct that the power to the Powerbrake booster come's from the power steeting pump ?

[POWERBRAKEBOB]

Oh. I felt I was being kicked to the ground here. For reference, Mr. Hal Baer's first "brake invention' was machining a bracket to adapt the 2 piston 1989 Calipers to a Camaro. Mr. William Wood bought out JFZ's 4 piston copy of a 66 Mustang Kelsey caliper for his product. Neither gentleman can design or build a system to APPLY their own calipers. Neither casts their own rotors. Their answer when you have low vacuum is to remove the brake booster, and go manual master. Oddly enough, NO American, Japanese, or German car has come with manual brakes in 44 years.
PRESSURE is what applies the pads against the rotors. When brakes overheat, it is because the pressure is TOO LOW.
It's like when a rope is sliding thru your hand. It's going to burn until you SQUEEZE it hard enough to stop the slippage. Same on a rotor. If the rotor keeps spinning while you are applying pressure, it will burn the pads until you SQUEEZE it hard enough to stop t.
The entire purpose of disc brakes is that they DO NOT lock. The cars with drum brakes had full hub caps covering the wheels. The drums locked, and you stopped. Drums lock at 600psi. Discs need over 1600psi to lock.
Disc brake wheels are made with cooling holes, which is the reason now for all the fancy wheels. Air.
This whole idea of pads "gassing" is going the wrong direction.
Pads evaporate, or gas, when over 800 degrees. This is also the point of rotors glowing red hot. No good. Air brake trucks with runaway brakes? Lining over 600 degrees. No friction.
Drilling holes in rotors to vent this gassing, and still red hot will crack cast iron. Not a secret. With high pressure, you stop in half the distance, and THAT is how to reduce rotor heat. I proved on a road race Viper. He ordered Baer's 6 piston calipers and a Hydroboost at the same time. Baer took 6 months to deliver. I shipped the Hydroboost, and he went racing, and WON! He was thrilled. He could DRIVE in the corner, touch the brakes, and back on the power, while the "manual" brake cars had to bend the pedal way ahead of the turns, heating the rotors.
The photo I attached with the blown 468 Chevelle is a case in point. It retains the stock GM brakes below, and stops on a dime with just the addition of the Hydroboost. NO rotor heat. It just stops, now. On my own car, I actually have to PUT some heat in the pads. The Hydroboost runs off of the p/s pump, so vacuum is never involved. It can deliver up to 2000psi at idle pump speed. No vacuum booster can do that. Turbo Buicks can spool up 22lbs of boost in the motor without Redlighting using a Hydroboost. Stock, they push thru the lights at 2psi.
I have been building high pressure brake boosters for the handicapped, motorhomes, overloaded trucks, Rose Parade floats, the military, race cars, and the utility companies at the same time, for more than 40 years. Never pulled the wheels off the handicapped vans. Quadrapalegics. Using only the weight of their hand on a hand control can stop a 6000lb van.
I met a ZR-1 owner about 12 years ago, who had installed twin calipers on the front of his car. Looked nice. He had to pump the pedal 3 times at every stop, as the volume of the 7/8" master couldn't fill all the pistons.
The "Big brake" companies tell you that their 6 piston caliper is the answer, but out the other side of their mouth, they say that they retained the same piston "area" as stock, so as NOT to change the master. They couldn't provide the rest of a "Performance" system.
What did they gain? About $4000 of their customers money.
Both Baer and Wilwood will tell you, that they are NOT in the "brake apply" business. Ask them. No warranties. They do not know how to apply their own systems. I AM the only Bosch power brake distributor in the U.S. because Bosch felt that I AM qualified to design systems.
They did not offer same to Baer or Wilwood.

[Kevin]

so you're telling me that F1, Prototype, and GT race cars suffer from low break pressure? Still not buying it

[JimZRyd]

My original post was just asking for some feed back on a few replacement rotors...not a "who's got the biggest" pressure generating system. My Z's not a track car. If it was then I'd be interested in Learning more about Bobs system. So what about rotors guys? Anybody got anything else to add?

[USAZR1]

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-tech-performance/2801131-c4-1993-brake-rotors-recommendations.html

[batchman]

What USA said.

Be cautious of brake upgrades. The stock J55 setup is a pretty good compromise between stopping and living with the system, although I would prefer a larger master cylinder bore and more rear bias in our ZR-1s. It's pretty easy to wind up with expensive to maintain components that are waaaay too noisy and dusty for street use. A lot of the "upgrade" pads are not designed to work when cold - which is how most street brakes spend their time.

I have found that the Carbotech AX6 is a great "cold" brake pad but even that needs me to drag the brake pedal a bit before first real need. It is wildly dusty and a little bit noisy, but the dust is very benign - doesn't eat your paint (like many do).

And when it comes to rotors, the drilled ones just give you more places for cracks to start. If you must have holes look for cast-in ones, which I don't think you'll actually find.

HTH,
- Jeff

[pantera1683]

I have a pair of gently used 13 inch front Baer Eradispeeds available if interested. Picked these up as a spare with only 5K miles on em. GC ;) How much and what color are they?

[Hib Halverson]

Unless you are racing or maybe you need to have calipers which are bigger and more colorful to give your car a badder look, the stock brakes on a ZR-1 are pretty darn good.

If you need an upgrade but are looking for a bolt-on, high-bang-for-the-buck modification, I'd try a slightly more aggressive brake pad, one of those aftermarket front air dams with brake ducts along with a fluid flush.

[We Gone]

I just dressed up my stock calipers until I find a set of 96 GS calipers
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/836/z9l4.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/845/d1jf.jpg

[icarus-54]

I just dressed up my stock calipers until I find a set of 96 GS calipers
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/836/z9l4.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/845/d1jf.jpg
nice