NCRS judging question

[vilant]

Taximan, you've peaked my interest on having my '90 judged. Have a couple questions if you don't mind me asking. My tires have been replaced, but I replaced them with Goodyear. Do you get some points at all because they're GY or nothing because they're new? Same thing with my shocks (replaced with new Bilsteins, although I'm having the originals rebuilt soon).
Fuel injectors, spark plugs, serpentine belt, and coil packs have been changed (have the originals still, but they're useless unless re-built), do they look for that at all, if so how much gets deducted?
I've been toying with the idea since it wouldn't take me much work to get it over 95% original.
Thanks:cheers:

[Kevin]

yes, you will lose points for the tires, unless the shocks have all the same markings/stickers as the ones that came on the car you will lose points, as for the plugs/injectors/belts/packs I"m not sure.

I sure as hell wouldn't be pulling the plenum for those things to be checked.

[taximan]

Taximan, you've peaked my interest on having my '90 judged. Have a couple questions if you don't mind me asking. My tires have been replaced, but I replaced them with Goodyear. Do you get some points at all because they're GY or nothing because they're new? Same thing with my shocks (replaced with new Bilsteins, although I'm having the originals rebuilt soon).
Fuel injectors, spark plugs, serpentine belt, and coil packs have been changed (have the originals still, but they're useless unless re-built), do they look for that at all, if so how much gets deducted?
I've been toying with the idea since it wouldn't take me much work to get it over 95% original.
Thanks:cheers:


I agree with Kevin. Dont pull the plenum for anything, because obviously its not judged. There are even some mechanical sections that cant be judged, because you cant see the parts number (starter).

You get some originality points if tires are Goodyear, and look similar.

fuel injectors, and plugs dont get judged. Serpentine belt will be judged, but a non original isnt a big deduction.

[vilant]

yes, you will lose points for the tires, unless the shocks have all the same markings/stickers as the ones that came on the car you will lose points, as for the plugs/injectors/belts/packs I"m not sure.

I sure as hell wouldn't be pulling the plenum for those things to be checked.
I don't mind pulling the plenum again (one of the reasons I bought a MightyVac), need to fix a vac leak anyway. I wouldn't change the fuel inj or coils but my replacement plug wires could be swapped for the original wires (they're still in good shape).:cheers:

[vilant]

I agree with Kevin. Dont pull the plenum for anything, because obviously its not judged. There are even some mechanical sections that cant be judged, because you cant see the parts number (starter).

You get some originality points if tires are Goodyear, and look similar.

fuel injectors, and plugs dont get judged. Serpentine belt will be judged, but a non original isnt a big deduction.
Cool thanks, I was wondering if they gave you a little something for using an original part supplier, (GY, Bilstein, etc). I have the original shifter, but have a short throw shifter installed, I wouldn't change the shifter but I could unscrew the handle and screw on the original knob. I assume the small details like that and other things, like stickers, are worth a small amount then.
What does it cost to have it judged? Where?
:cheers:

[lisounds]

Cool thanks, I was wondering if they gave you a little something for using an original part supplier, (GY, Bilstein, etc). I have the original shifter, but have a short throw shifter installed, I wouldn't change the shifter but I could unscrew the handle and screw on the original knob. I assume the small details like that and other things, like stickers, are worth a small amount then.
What does it cost to have it judged? Where?
:cheers:



you can check out the upcomming NCRS events on line
www.ncrs.org (http://www.ncrs.org)

to have your car chapter flight judged costs less then $100

once you have your car judged you will receive the events judging sheets a few weeks later.
you can make corrections to you car to make it more ncrs correct and have it judged at another event.

[vilant]

you can check out the upcomming NCRS events on line
www.ncrs.org (http://www.ncrs.org)

to have your car chapter flight judged costs less then $100

once you have your car judged you will receive the events judging sheets a few weeks later.
you can make corrections to you car to make it more ncrs correct and have it judged at another event.

Thanks, that's pretty cheap. I'll take a look and see when the next event is around my way.:cheers:

[taximan]

Thanks, that's pretty cheap. I'll take a look and see when the next event is around my way.:cheers:


You must be a member of NCRS also. I think its $35 per year ?

You have a very good and long running club in your area, Delaware Valley NCRS. They have a chapter meet at a car dealer in Jenkintown. Its called Run for the Ribbons. I believe its in October, so you just missed it. I believe they also have a regional show at Carlisle in August.

The judging meets are chapter (local), regional (just what it says), and National (at the national convention). The difference is the experience and detail of the judges and judging. A chapter meet is usually the first step, and meant to get you used to the judging procedure and let you learn a lot about your car.

If I were you, I would shoot for the Carlisle show in August. In my opinion, that is no tougher than the Del Val chapter show. I top flighted a 63 coupe at that Run for the Ribbons, chapter show many years ago. It was loaded with national level judges, because a bunch of them live in the Phily area. It has a reputation of the toughest chapter meet in the country. But thats mostly for C1, C2, and C3s.

Additionally, you would get over 100 miles driving points by driving to Carlisle. Thats worth 1 full gross point, or 45 net points. Well worth it. Plus, well... your at Carlisle, instead of inside a dealers showroom.

Feel free to PM me with any questions.

[John Boothby]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I would like to have a few questions answered.

1. My car has 79k on the dial so it shows some wear cosmeticaly. In addition the windshield is delaminating and the window tint on the rear hatch has started to peal.
2. My car is basically stock with the following exceptions: RC injectors; DRM chip; K&N airfilter; Wix oil filter; GY D3 tires and Flowmaster exhaust.
3. The car is running flawlessly and everything functions great. The only known non-functioning item is the lumbar bladder on the drivers side does not hold air. Pumps work and were rebuilt.

When I bought the car in 2005, I had the front brakes done; The suspension system was inspected and the rear links replaced. I rebuilt the secondary vac system; Dr Don rebuilt the radio/cd and speakers and I installed a new antenna; new alternator; new a/c compressor clutch; new hydrolics for the clutch; releathered the driver's seat, basically took care of all the gigs.

Question: Would it be worth it to have this car judged as is? In my opinion it would be degrading the car's performance and reliability to take it back to original.

Respectfully,
John

[taximan]

1. My window, like most of ours is delaminating, and I got hit for 5 condition points for it. Tinted windows, peeling or not, will take a hit for originality, and possibily condition.

2. air filter, oil filter tires and exhaust will be deducts. Air and oil filters are easy cheap fixes. Exhaust could be between 20-30 point deduct.

3. Thats a small deduction.

John, only you can answer that question. My suggestion would be to change up the filters, and any small, cheap fix items. Take it to a chapter meet, and see how it does. A proper chapter meet is a no pressure deal, in which you get a lot of good info on your car, and learn something in the deal.

[Kevin]

i'm tempted to pitch up with my car as it sits and see what they do with it. A clean street driven stock 64,000 mile car.

[John Boothby]

John, only you can answer that question. My suggestion would be to change up the filters, and any small, cheap fix items. Take it to a chapter meet, and see how it does. A proper chapter meet is a no pressure deal, in which you get a lot of good info on your car, and learn something in the deal.[/QUOTE]

This is what I have been toying with. Might re-join the NCRS and try this in the spring.

Thanks for the info!! Have a good Thanksgiving to all!! :cheers:

[jrd1990zr1]

During NCRS judging the biggest point lose typically comes from things which don't operate correctly. Simple things like radio, CD, antenna, heater, mirrors, lights, etc.

Items like your battery if it is an AC Delco will be hit for a standard deduction. Tires likewise, have Goodyear tires on the car not another brand. Simple things like the air filter, oil filter etc are out there, the question is how much are those little point deductions going to hurt your overall score. You start out with around 4500 points and deductions are taken from there.

There are bonus points for driving to the event based on miles traveled. There are also bonus points for having an NCRS sticker on the car a battery disconnect and a fire estinguisher.

If you want to discuss specific issues, drop me a PM. I've had 2 different 1990s judged at chapter, regional and national NCRS events. Also have my judging sheets and the TM for the 1990 MY.

[on3wego]

My '95 has received both local and national Top Flights. It is a 97% plus car. If you have any other questions, I would be happy to answer

[2nd94Z]

What if the original wheels are chrome now ? everything else stock & original.:flag:

[on3wego]

Remember NCRS judging is on originality and condition. Just like the vehicle was delivered from the dealer. If you have chromed your wheels it would only be minor points knocked off. I might be wrong here but I believe it is 50% deduction if not original. Go to the NCRS website and look up there rules to be sure.

Good luck on your quest, it is worth it.

[WVZR-1]

Last year at the NCRS National I was somewhat surprised at the interest shown towards the cars that were presented for the "Bow-Tie" award. I believe if I had a stock car with only reasonable maintenance I'd gather up enough used parts to get it to as close to delivered as possible and do the "Bow-tie" category. I believe the car can only be presented "once" regardless of ownership and the most difficult aspect of the classification is I believe it can only be done at the National. There are no passing locals etc. It could of course be certainly checked by locals before presenting it.

A very high point Bow-Tie car I'd think would be conversational.

[Z06scentair]

Last year at the NCRS National I was somewhat surprised at the interest shown towards the cars that were presented for the "Bow-Tie" award. I believe if I had a stock car with only reasonable maintenance I'd gather up enough used parts to get it to as close to delivered as possible and do the "Bow-tie" category. I believe the car can only be presented "once" regardless of ownership and the most difficult aspect of the classification is I believe it can only be done at the National. There are no passing locals etc. It could of course be certainly checked by locals before presenting it.

A very high point Bow-Tie car I'd think would be conversational.

What I'm after.

[TucsonZR1]

The Bowtie is called Crossflags for C4s and you must achieve a McClelland Award or a Hill Award first. 90 -92 is McClelland and 93 and up is a Hill.

[Z06scentair]

The Bowtie is called Crossflags for C4s and you must achieve a McClelland Award or a Hill Award first. 90 -92 is McClelland and 93 and up is a Hill.

Correct I will begin my process in September.