NCRS judging

[taximan]

Just finished flight judging my 95 Z yesterday. With our cars starting to creep into the classic car category, I would highly recommend for those of you that are near stock. We have clearly established the pedigree of our cars on the track, now we should be heard on the judging field. It will only increase the legacy of these great cars in all areas of Corvettedom.

Its amazing how many people I came across who had no idea of the significant part our cars have played in the history of Corvette.

I have belonged to NCRS for 22 years, and flight judged 3 different cars. I am in process of going through C4 judging levels.

I know NCRS has a reputation of being filled with a bunch of elitists a$$holes. And believe me, they have some. But in large part its pretty good people looking to preserve the Corvette legacy. Since C4s are now into the judging timeline, the NCRS wants to get more C$ owners into the process, and would like to encourage any ZR1 owners who are interested, to start showing their cars.

Remember, as much as we all like to race and tweek our monster cars, its just as important that we become visible to the ato and overall Corvette community to remind them of the importance of the ZR1, and it willl help enhance resell values of ours cars.

I will be more than happy to help anyone with questions or suggestions. Just post in the NCRS section of this forum.

[Kevin]

this is great for anyone who's interested and I hope those who are do it. But for me, it's not worth it. I've done some ncrs judging schools and while fun, I wouldn't want to be on the other end of it.

[Tyler Townsley]

I judged a 95 at a chapter meet yesterday and even with a powder coated top end, cam covers up and stainless steel bolts it scored a top flight. The way the scoring is set up the parts were original and you could only hit on the finish. Car was just about perfect in all other categories.

Tyler

[taximan]

It was probably my car. Was it at Howey in the Hills ?

[Tyler Townsley]

It was probably my car. Was it at Howey in the Hills ?

Yes

[Mystic ZR-1]

Did they happen to mention how many ZR-1s have earned a Top Flight award?
NO ONE at NCRS wants to answer that question...
Can't be that hard?
Thumbs up on your Top Flight!!! Add one to whatever the number is.

[taximan]

I don't know that they don't want to answer it. The response was that they will give us the info when they release the entire breakdown of all years. Sometime next year.

[Mystic ZR-1]

Don't hold your breathe...
I've been asking the question since 09 when I Top Flighted my car and getting the same answer!

[Tyler Townsley]

Don't hold your breathe...
I've been asking the question since 09 when I Top Flighted my car and getting the same answer!

NCRS is a club and as such is somewhat limited by the number of employees and volunteers available to answer questions from club members. This is especially true when trying to get information in its data files.

Tyler

[Mystic ZR-1]

It's more of a business than a club now.
Not as bad as Bloomington, but getting there...

[Daniel_Mc]

...I know NCRS has a reputation of being filled with a bunch of elitists a$$holes. And believe me, they have some...

That is an understatement to say the least. After the way I was treated at the 2013 Deep South Regional I will never enter a car in a NCRS event again.

...But in large part its pretty good people looking to preserve the Corvette legacy...

I have had the pleasure to meet some absolutely outstanding and knowledgeable people over the years in the NCRS. They are passionate about what they do and represent a significant part of the Corvette hobby.

It's more of a business than a club now.
Agreed.

-Daniel

[edram454]

Having been a NCRS member for a number of years, I find it impossible to own a NCRS car and drive it. I am not a guy who drives the heck out of my corvettes but even a little will eventually deteriorate those unreplaceable parts.

One year I studied and practically memorized the 1968, 1969 Judging manual. I wrote to them asking to be tested to judge or helping out on these years. I had a 1969 so I knew the car 100%. They never replied so I would go to shows and see what they would do and how they would judge. One year, when the NCRS winter meet was in cypress gardens, I came across a 1969 350/300 hp without a air pump. the judges were gigging the owner because his car lacked a smog pump... they didnt know that near the end of the production run, if your car was a 350/300hp automatic with air, the factory omitted the smog pump and you can tell since the exhaust manifolds did not have the holes for the a.i.r. system. I knew then that I had more knowledge than the judges.

I then steered away from those types of shows and concentrated more on well detailed but nice driving cars. I prefer modded since they run so much better. Drive your cars. It doesnt have to be alot but enjoy while you are still able to enjoy the ride. I am 55 and soon will be 65 etc... drive it. You wont live forever. remember, the car you painstakingly save, will one day, when you are gone, be in the hands of a tennager doing donuts with it.

edramos. #3028:handshak:

[jrd1990zr1]

NCRS is a club and as such is somewhat limited by the number of employees and volunteers available to answer questions from club members. This is especially true when trying to get information in its data files.

Tyler

I've got to agree with Mystic, It is still a club at the Chapter level.

[XfireZ51]

Having been a NCRS member for a number of years, I find it impossible to own a NCRS car and drive it. I am not a guy who drives the heck out of my corvettes but even a little will eventually deteriorate those unreplaceable parts.

One year I studied and practically memorized the 1968, 1969 Judging manual. I wrote to them asking to be tested to judge or helping out on these years. I had a 1969 so I knew the car 100%. They never replied so I would go to shows and see what they would do and how they would judge. One year, when the NCRS winter meet was in cypress gardens, I came across a 1969 350/300 hp without a air pump. the judges were gigging the owner because his car lacked a smog pump... they didnt know that near the end of the production run, if your car was a 350/300hp automatic with air, the factory omitted the smog pump and you can tell since the exhaust manifolds did not have the holes for the a.i.r. system. I knew then that I had more knowledge than the judges.

I then steered away from those types of shows and concentrated more on well detailed but nice driving cars. I prefer modded since they run so much better. Drive your cars. It doesnt have to be alot but enjoy while you are still able to enjoy the ride. I am 55 and soon will be 65 etc... drive it. You wont live forever. remember, the car you painstakingly save, will one day, when you are gone, be in the hands of a tennager doing donuts with it.

edramos. #3028:handshak:

Ed,

I worked in a GM Assembly plant for 6 years. One of my assignments was in Material Inventory Control. My responsibility was tires, radiators, A/C., Ignition.
My job was to keep the line running. Whatever it took. If we ran out of parts we subd. So cars were built with "incorrect" parts from other compatible models.
Does NCRS consider this. Doubtful.

[taximan]

The very knowledgeable NCRS people (and their are many), and the knowledgeable and practical "NCRS people", are a different category.

I think if people take a deep breath and realize that the judges are supposed to judge on what was "typical" factory production. That doesnt mean factory abnormalities didnt occur. And if they can be proved, the judges usually give the owner the benefit of the doubt. They really do want people to enjoy the hobby, and maybe learn more about their car.

I am always reminded of the day in August of 1991 when I was waiting in line at Corvettes at Carlisle to get a Zora autograph on my hat. In the line signing also was a St. Louis factory worker named "Ernie". Ernie was signing next to Zora. At the same time the Delaware Valley NCRS was hosting a regional judging meet next to the tent. While waiting in the line someone asked Ernie about observing the judging going on next to him. Ernie laughed and said, NO thanks, I tried that, but when I saw judges deducting for screws with the wrong letter on top, I had to leave. Ernie went on to say that in 1962, the last year of the C1, he and others made frequent runs to the local hardware store to get any screws and bolts that they could, because this was the last run of the 1962 Corvette. And he said quality control didnt exist then.

[Jetjock]

I will be more than happy to help anyone with questions or suggestions. Just post in the NCRS section of this forum.

I, for one, will take you up on this. I have been a member of NCRS for several years now but have done nothing with it because I have a 92 ZR-1 that needs help in a lot of areas. Gave up on that idea. However, I just bought a 93 Ruby Red Z that looks like it could be the one. It does have some minor issues such as the dim switch doesn't work, it has a K&N air filter on it and it has slotted, drilled brakes on it. Car looks gorgeous. I looked at the NCRS manual for the car and I noticed a lot of mistakes in the pictures and content.

This Ruby is my seventh Vette that I have owned. I have had three ZR-1's along with a 2002 pewter metallic coupe, a 1989 dark blue coupe, a 2003 A. E. coupe, and a 1991 black coupe. I work on my own cars. I fly jets for an airline and I am very detailed oriented. The thing that I am concerned with is judges, that go with this manual, would deduct stuff for things are supposed to be like that if that makes any sense. I have a few things to care of on the car first but I would welcome any direction in achieving my goal.

Thanks,

[taximan]

Roy,

Glad your considering going for it. Sounds like you already went through the manual and matched it up against your Z.

The judges will rely almost exclusively on the judging manual. And that is your point of reference to point out any contested deductions.

If you dont agree with manual items, my suggestion is to contact the C4 judging chairman prior to the judging meet. This person can be found on the NCRS.org site.

And definitely start at a chapter meet.


Let me know if I can help.

[Jetjock]

Thanks for that. I have contacted the Southeast Region people and the Southeast chapter people. Turns out one in the same. Was going through the paperwork and found some interesting items. Found the original verification of the actual mileage before it was sold and the knockouts for the keys. Missing a few decals on the wheels but can replace them. I do plan to contact the appropriate people before I go to a meet. The first one close to me isn't until Oct, so I have time.

[SitkaSam]

I am new to the NCRS scene but I do have 3 ZR1s A 1990, 1993 and a 2011.
My question is about judging. My 93 is in almost original condition except the exhaust system was replaced by prior owner.
Do I need to replace it with original equipment?
Thank you for your help

[Mystic ZR-1]

Depending on how original etc the rest of the car is, the points deducted may not knock you out of Top Flight contention. Get the judging manual for your year car and check out the judging sheets on their website to see what the deductions could be. You start at 4500 points and all you've gotta do is 94% (could be wrong on that %) There's a few freebee points to be had too, for fire extinguisher, NCRS decal also driving mileage to get to the meet.
Study the judging manual!
Good luck!

[jrd1990zr1]

Mystic (Doug) is right on. Both he and I have had our 1990's judged. Getting the 1990/91 and 1993 manuals are a great start. I understand the NCRS is rewriting the 1990/91 manual to up date it. Not sure when it will be out.

As far as original parts your battery and possibly tires would receive a deduction, also items like air/oil filter, wipers, etc. if there were replaced.

NCRS used to have the judging sheets available if you are a member, I would check their website after you get a 1993 manual.

Best of luck, John

[SitkaSam]

Thanks for your input.
My 1993 is pretty much all original and has only 7950 miles on her.
Prior owners have replaced two batteries, oil filters, changed out exhaust system to BB Tri-Flo added high performance chip and new tires.
all else looks like new :-)
I have ordered the NCRS 1993-4 Judging Guide to help he in this process.
Since I have the 90 and 2011, I can have fun with them :-)
Thanks again
John

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Thanks for your input.
My 1993 is pretty much all original and has only 7950 miles on her.
Prior owners have replaced two batteries, oil filters, changed out exhaust system to BB Tri-Flo added high performance chip and new tires.
all else looks like new :-)
I have ordered the NCRS 1993-4 Judging Guide to help he in this process.
Since I have the 90 and 2011, I can have fun with them :-)
Thanks again
John



John,
The judging guide is indeed a fine place to begin your NCRS Journey!
I would also begin looking for chapter judging events close to your location.
You might just want to enter your car as it is. This way, you attend the event and observe your car being judged. Even with the changes that you mentioned, a car with under 8,000 miles should be an excellent candidate for Top Flight!
Regardless, once you have had your car judged, they will mail you your judging sheets. These sheets, combined with their explanations during the event, will give you a punch list specific to your car. you can then analyze each deduction, and determine a path to a higher score fixing the things that you elect to fix.
As Mystic stated, your car starts out with 4500 points. First or Top Flight requires a 94% or better, which means you may lose up to 270 points and still make it.
Some things are difficult or expensive to correct, or in the case of your exhaust system, you may just not want to remove what you enjoy.
Having the judging sheets enables you to look at each deduction, and choose what you want to do.
I have enjoyed each of my NCRS pursuits, very much!
I wish you the same!!
Marty

[Joelbbvette]

Well add one more 1990 ZR-1 with now 2 Top Flights (Chapter and Regional), #277. Prior to me the car was owned in East Central Florida for it's entire life and has covered just under 12K miles. Cleaned it up and scoring very well. I will probably continue to go for a McLellan award.

Like many others I would love to know how many of the ZR-1 have awards and how many of the 24 Copper Convertibles have a Hill award but I doubt I'll ever know. I do think my Copper was the first Copper Convert to get that award and a Coupe earned one at the same show.

Joel

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Congratulations!
Well done!
Did same; thought about McLellan pursuit................. still thinking.............
Well, I could always start over again.................. thinking...............
No, think I will just drive it!
Marty

[JMO343]

I would like to have my car NCRS judge next year. Is there any documentation I need to follow for ZR1? How do I go about this? It is all new to me.


Thanks
John
1990 #2331

[Mystic ZR-1]

.....
Like many others I would love to know how many of the ZR-1 have awards and how many of the 24 Copper Convertibles have a Hill award but I doubt I'll ever know..... Joel

Good luck with that....
To quote the NCRS Judging Chairman
"We do not give out that information"

I've been looking for an honest answer to that
question for 9 years now! ☹️

Sounds like they're trying to figure out a way to make
people pay for that info???? $$$$

[jrd1990zr1]

Good luck with that....
To quote the NCRS Judging Chairman
"We do not give out that information"

I've been looking for an honest answer to that
question for 9 years now! ☹️

Sounds like they're trying to figure out a way to make
people pay for that info???? $$$$

Got to agree with Mystic.

To make matters worse, if you have your Z judged make sure it gets added to your ncrs profile. I had my car judged in 2010 and they lost my green sheet, (along with two other cars at the meet). The National blamed the chapter judging chairman and the chapter judging chairman blamed the national organization. Forced me to have the car judged again 8 years and 30,000 miles later. Neither wanted to take responsibility, the loser is the car owner.

Only suggestion I have is to buy (spend $) on a NCRS technical information manual for your model year car. I heard that the 1990/1991 manual with the yellow car on the cover (2nd ed.) is being revised. If you can, wait until the 3rd edition comes out if your car is the 1990/91 MY.

There are a number of us in the registry who have gone down this path, ask questions, this group (the registry) is an excellent resource.

Good luck.