UPS: Camshafts Damaged

[LGAFF]

Sick to my stomach, shipped off 6 cams total, including 2 regrinds for comparison and masters. Both Exhaust cams 1 regrind and 1 stock had the reluctor broken off.

Had them packed in cardboard(padded), newspaper and bubble wrap

[Paul Workman]

Dayam, Lee! Do you have the pieces?? - You know where I'm going... Sorry, buddy.

P.

[BigJohn]

Sick to my stomach, shipped off 6 cams total, including 2 regrinds for comparison and masters. Both Exhaust cams 1 regrind and 1 stock had the reluctor broken off.

Had the packed in cardboard(padded), newspaper and bubble wrap


Need to get some of that spray foam.
We used to use it for shipping Aircraft parts.

:cheers:

[FU]

UPS: Camshafts Damaged

Damaging the cam's isnt an easy thing to do. They are quite stout.
I can just imagine how you feel.

[-=Jeff=-]

did you not have insurance on them?

That does suck

[phrogs]

Ups will just say they were not "packed correctly" insurance is a joke for damaged items!

[LGAFF]

$1000 ins

[-=Jeff=-]

will they pay or doing what phrogs said?

[efnfast]

I don't ship anything UPS, I've watched my driver walk over packages in the back of his truck looking for stuff. I also had them refuse to ship something because I wanted to insure it for a couple grand. What a shame.

[LGAFF]

I just talked to a cam company, they said they will likely deny because of packaging, and always do.....but he said to stick with it...more than likely they were abusive. Lets face it, with decent packaging(and it was) and good handling this should have never happened.

[Kevin]

ups is dogshit.

[LGAFF]

I packaged the hell out of these would appreciate any support:

https://www.facebook.com/#!/ups/posts/749071148440524?comment_id=120467869&offset=0&total_comments=11&notif_t=feed_comment

[Kevin]

if you have twitter beat them up on there too.

[LGAFF]

No Twitter...I appreciate the support...thanks for the comment Kevin, nice clean and professional!!!

[Kevin]

No Twitter...I appreciate the support...thanks for the comment Kevin, nice clean and professional!!!

I am a massive toolbag, but sometime I get the job done.

[JimZRyd]

ups is dogshit.

Agreed!!! UPS lost my B&B X pipe and it took 2 weeks for them to "find it". Online showed me it got to Greensboro but they said they had no record of it ever arriving there. They've lost my business forever.

[mike100]

Things have been getting damaged in transit forever, but UPS and Fedex have really been outdoing themselves lately. I had 2 or 3 incidents in the last year alone. Must be pushing for more and more productivity. It is like those guys don't even have time to set stuff down and would rather throw it on the run.

what do you need to do, wooden crates?

[A26B]

I realize the damage is done and this is not going to help with the current problem, but.... for the future

I ship LT5 cams in a 2" sch 40 PVC pipe with PVC pipe caps on the ends (driven on & taped, not glued) Bundle together with reinforced tape for added strength & protection, then boxed accordingly.

[LGAFF]

I just talked to a cam guy, he is now doing the same seeing more damage from carriers.

[GOLDCYLON]

Yikes Lee that sucks

[Kevin]

Things have been getting damaged in transit forever, but UPS and Fedex have really been outdoing themselves lately. I had 2 or 3 incidents in the last year alone. Must be pushing for more and more productivity. It is like those guys don't even have time to set stuff down and would rather throw it on the run.

what do you need to do, wooden crates?

i've been shipping/receiving stuff via USPS for a decade and I can count on one hand the problems i've had with them. Just returned an ECM to a friend on the other side of the country, with $200 insurance cost me $15 and took 2 days. no idea why anyone uses anything else

[WVZR-1]

Lee,

Who has the camshafts? You need to be very careful how you handle the claim with them. Possession of them is important. I believe that if a person pushes really hard and they're either in UPS's possession or on the other end of the delivery and they make a "pick up" because of the damage claim, the material can disappear and then it's a monetary issue only. Then it get's really nasty and I'm sure the insured aspect of the ship doesn't come near the value of the material. You need to be very cautious regarding "possession".

If they were at the other end of the delivery I might try to just get the inspection done there, documented well with snap-shots but making sure the material stayed with the receiver. Was the damage to the containers "noted" by the people receiving the material?

Can't stress enough - possession!

[LGAFF]

I am not going to mess around, if they deny I will file a smalls claims suit as property was shipped in IL and stayed in IL.

UPS will not honor any claim unless they are able to pick up the item and inspect.

Bottom line they are going to deny and I will need to be aggressive.

[Franke]

Form recent personal experience with UPS a shipment from NH arrived with the box partially crushed. Looked like an accordion. I made the UPS guy stay here until I unpacked it and when he saw the damage he said would you like me to file a claim. To which I replied no because I had waited a week to get the part and the damage would not affect functionally. It was cosmetic damage and the part is not seen anyway.

[alnukem]

I am not going to mess around, if they deny I will file a smalls claims suit as property was shipped in IL and stayed in IL.

UPS will not honor any claim unless they are able to pick up the item and inspect.

Bottom line they are going to deny and I will need to be agressive.


Lee, I had a similar experience with them. I was polite & patient, they d*cked me around for 2 weeks, I then called the main office for a determination, they said they were going to deny the claim, then I stated "small claims court & my brother is a attorney", the lady said hold on, then they paid. Moral of story......Polite, Patience, then aggressive & make your "kid" a attorney!

[Coupe89]

I used to work for UPS on the sunrise shift. I've seen package jam's on the feeder belts all the time. Sometime destroying the package. Oakland Hub had cages. Sometimes packages get stuck under and in-between cages. Nothing new...

If something was rare and expensive. I would ship them Next Day Air. In Oakland they were unloaded at the end of the ground packages unload.

[LGAFF]

I work in insurance and an familiar with the process....not sure why commercial is so difficult. I guess its less cut and dry vs Auto/Home....and they are self insured so more to lose. But they live off speed in their business model...so they know they will damage property.

I am going to be quick to file a small claims court form. I hate being involved with this type of stuff because you have to be an
***.
Not my first rodeo in the legal system

My daughter has autism, and we found ourselves in a legal battle with the school, they failed to provide her with an assistant and instead used threats, such as shipping her 3 hours away for school to get us to go away. When the attorney wanted $21K to handle our case, I took it on myself instead.

I beat their attorney and now my daughter attends a private school at 30X the cost of the simple request I submitted.....I also have a masters in legal research and writing.

So I guess this will turn into a test of wills....legal system is a crapshoot

[LGAFF]

Bummer is this package only went 200 miles

I used to work for UPS on the sunrise shift. I've seen package jam's on the feeder belts all the time. Sometime destroying the package. Oakland Hub had cages. Sometimes packages get stuck under and in-between cages. Nothing new...

If something was rare and expensive. I would ship them Next Day Air. In Oakland they were unloaded at the end of the ground packages unload.

[ZZZZZR1]

Lee, I had a similar experience with them. I was polite & patient, they d*cked me around for 2 weeks, I then called the main office for a determination, they said they were going to deny the claim, then I stated "small claims court & my brother is a attorney", the lady said hold on, then they paid. Moral of story......Polite, Patience, then aggressive & make your "kid" a attorney!

Well said Tim!!! Gotta coin that phrase...

Maybe one of the ZR-1 commandments?

:cheers:

David

[Kevin]

Lee, I had a similar experience with them. I was polite & patient, they d*cked me around for 2 weeks, I then called the main office for a determination, they said they were going to deny the claim, then I stated "small claims court & my brother is a attorney", the lady said hold on, then they paid. Moral of story......Polite, Patience, then aggressive & make your "kid" a attorney!

my wife's an attorney...close enough?

[LGAFF]

Just not looking forward to dealing with the BS...and sick to see parts like this get damaged

[mike100]

The 'possession' claim is valid. If it isn't insured well on the way out, you can insure it on the way back. No doubt they are wise to that, but they know damn well who broke it.

In my $800 debacle, the seller was a lawyer in TX. he handled it and I got my money back in about 4 weeks after fedex payed him.

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Lee, sorry to hear of your loss....fight like hell brother!

[Funracer]

Hey Lee

Hope it was not my fault.
I make the smoothest landings at UPS (IMO :-D).

Best of luck with this. Big Brown can be tough to deal with.

Regards

[LGAFF]

Hey Lee

Hope it was not my fault.
I make the smoothest landings at UPS (IMO :-D).

Best of luck with this. Big Brown can be tough to deal with.

Regards

LOL definately not you.....someone either dropped or threw the package

[Paul Workman]

Lee, I had a similar experience with them. I was polite & patient, they d*cked me around for 2 weeks, I then called the main office for a determination, they said they were going to deny the claim, then I stated "small claims court & my brother is a attorney", the lady said hold on, then they paid. Moral of story......Polite, Patience, then aggressive & make your "kid" a attorney!

I agree.

The key is to be tenacious...AND to bring or threaten to bring an attorney into the picture, apparently. BTDT x2 with "that certain freight company" It took over a year, and an "Esquire" on the letterhead to break things loose.

FWIW, "The Rainmaker" novel by Gresham (sp?) was eye-opening, far as "standard operating procedure" goes for (in that case) a medical insurance company. But, as I read the book, I couldn't believe how it was like reading the playbook for the freight company's antics!! Something like this;


First + second time the claim is presented - DENIAL letter(s) , regardless of circumstances
Open a claim investigation, request information, more information, assure progress is being made, DENIAL LETTER.
....
....
....
Claimant gives up, OR
Claimant lawyers up = pay the claim, if legitimate.


It sucks... Hang in there, Bud.

P.

[Schrade]

I owned a courier & delivery for 20 years.

Not ONCE did I have a claim levied...

[LGAFF]

Well not sure if this is an admission...package damaged?

Mattoon, IL, United States 11/20/2013 5:02 P.M. The package was damaged in transit. UPS will attempt to notify the sender with the details / All merchandise is being returned. UPS will notify the sender with details of the damage. 11/20/2013 5:02 P.M. The package was damaged in transit. UPS will attempt to notify the sender with the details

[-=Jeff=-]

Better screen capture that UPS webpage before it changes

[LGAFF]

Already did:)

[Dynomite]

I realize the damage is done and this is not going to help with the current problem, but.... for the future

I ship LT5 cams in a 2" sch 40 PVC pipe with PVC pipe caps on the ends (driven on & taped, not glued) Bundle together with reinforced tape for added strength & protection, then boxed accordingly.

Jerry is THE expert on packaging for sure. Gaskets are the most abused in shipping and I have NEVER received a gasket from Jerry damaged in any way (UPS or USPS) :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[efnfast]

I've sent stuff exactly as Jerry describes. UPS managed to blow out one of the end caps. Albeit, it was quite a bit heavier than a camshaft.

[edram454]

So sorry to hear about that. You would think UPS would not be so abusive and uncaring. With equipment like that it is worth paying the big bucks and using FEDEX with a ton of insurance. I would even pay to let them pack it. Hope you get you insurance payment that is due to you. Dealing with some companies and certain people can be very disappointing. Things will work out in the end i am sure.

edramos:mad:

[edram454]

fyi.. look in youtube and you will see ups drivers and what they do to some of the packages. This is not to say all drivers, but some. It is ridiculous. I believe you got one of (those) drivers. edramos. #3028

[GOLDCYLON]

Lees cams arriving

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM3SRG7D21Y

[LGAFF]

They are denying my claim

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Shocking!! Go get 'em!

[WARP TEN]

They are denying my claim

I'm shocked, shocked to hear that!!! --Bob

[LGAFF]

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/DSCN5446-1.jpg (http://s134.photobucket.com/user/lgaff/media/DSCN5446-1.jpg.html)

[LGAFF]

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/DSCN5447-1.jpg (http://s134.photobucket.com/user/lgaff/media/DSCN5447-1.jpg.html)

[LGAFF]

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/DSCN5448.jpg (http://s134.photobucket.com/user/lgaff/media/DSCN5448.jpg.html)

[LGAFF]

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/DSCN5444.jpg (http://s134.photobucket.com/user/lgaff/media/DSCN5444.jpg.html)

[ScottZ95ZR1]

Man that sucks, Lee. Hope they eventually pay for the damage - and the frustration their BS causes you.

[Paul Workman]

They are denying my claim

Step ONE... :thumbsdo:

[LGAFF]

Going to look into getting these laser welded....no pre-heating, no warping

[Z51JEFF]

Lee,I think these are now junk.Its going to be a fight but Id keep on it until UPS paid for it regardless of how long it took.

[Schrade]

You can 'wing' stuff, and get it down intact. I did it often, and as I said before, NEVER in 20 years had a claim.

That cam didn't get 'winged'. It got hammered...

[GOLDCYLON]

They are denying my claim

Shocker... Hammer em Lee

[zrwhat]

Lee,

I Shipped a ZR-1 Door from a 500 mile car several years ago through UPS to a fellow Net Member and I packaged the chit out of it especially around the edges and corners, it never made it in one piece. Wasn't much left to it after UPS got done with it. UPS denied the claim and I persisted and finally got an inspector out to observe the damage and the packaging, it was obvious the package was mis-handled misserably.

I actually used a wooden skeleten structure around the door and a box inside a box and padding around each layer, even I thought it was UPS Proof!

It took several months but they agreed to pay the claim. Gotta stay in their AZZ or you'll get ignored, Squeeky wheel get the grease!

Gibby

[FU]

There's a reason they dress up and drive around in brown.

[Hog]

And even when you win your claim, its just money that you get. Those cams are irreplaceable.

That sucks.

[BigJohn]

Sick to my stomach, shipped off 6 cams total, including 2 regrinds for comparison and masters. Both Exhaust cams 1 regrind and 1 stock had the reluctor broken off.

Had them packed in cardboard(padded), newspaper and bubble wrap


Do you have the casting bucks?
:neutral:

[LGAFF]

Nope, I think Laser welding might be an option.....cam lobes are welded up and regroud all the time. Biggest challenge will be the cast material being difficult to weld

[BigJohn]

Nope, I think Laser welding might be an option.....cam lobes are welded up and regroud all the time. Biggest challenge will be the cast material being difficult to weld

Would that much welding change the heat treat?

[LGAFF]

Preheating it is the part that warps....

[GOLDCYLON]

Any update on the BS Lee

[LGAFF]

Waiting on a claim "appeal"...sent in a complaint to the BBB. In the meantime the cams are at a shop who is going to laser weld them....a $100K+ welder that does not require preheating etc

[LGAFF]

As a side note, on my way to drop the cams off, I Stopped by a shop in the same industrial park....the guy was working on a few Ferrari 12 cyl engines and in the back room he showed me an 86 Lamborghini Countach and an original Ford GT40 with a Gurney engine

[rkreigh]

jeez, what did they do pound some nails with them?

holy crap that is aggravating. had the same thing happen to me shipping a ZR-1 door. they busted of the whole corner and the door was crated. had to be dropping it 4-5 feet to do that.

the brutal baggage boys should be summarily flogged with the jagged edge of the cam.

or rectally inserted and removed through the right nostil.

this stuff is too rare to be mangled like that!!!

good luck on the settlement. I bombed out on mine, wishing you better luck!

[Schrade]

I think that if you can get the shop boss to inflate the receipt by about 60%, you MIGHT get actual cost re-imbursed from the carrier...

Just don't let on beforehand with particulars!

[LGAFF]

The metal turned out to be pretty good stuff, I pick up the cams on the 10th

[XfireZ51]

The metal turned out to be pretty good stuff, I pick up the cams on the 10th

Good luck w this Lee. Was this very expensive?

[LGAFF]

Laser welded, this is the raw weld, pretty awesome...welder has some serious talent and machinery..

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/1483105_588146701239508_1206334512_n.jpg (http://s134.photobucket.com/user/lgaff/media/1483105_588146701239508_1206334512_n.jpg.html)

[We Gone]

Now that's one nice job..once dressed they should be fine.

[LGAFF]

Amazing thing is with the laser, no preheating is needed....I saw some other items this guy fixed....some of them rotating parts on large electric motors

[LGAFF]

Was reading up on laser welding, BMW uses it to weld cast gears together in differnetials....no cracking no warping. If it can handle a differential it can handle a cam part that bears no stress

Munich, Germanyndash;An innovative project undertaken by BMW Group’s Research and Innovation Center was the creation of laser welding joints to replace the traditional nut and bolt connection of the ring gear and differential housing in the rear axle gear. Through an intensive cooperation between the center, located here, and BMW’s Dingolfing plant, under the guidance of mechanical engineer Dr. Tim Angerer, this project was developed for mass production.
In the axle differential gear, there is a meeting of case-hardened steel and cast ironndash;two materials that just a few years ago were considered taboo in welding. The welding processes are much harder to control because the high carbon content in the two components results in cold cracks. But a new laser welding method that adds wire containing nickel now allows these materials to be joined

[mgbrv8]

I really Hate UPS

[Z51JEFF]

Looking good Lee.One thing Ive learned from this thread,I WILL NEVER SHIP ANYTHING OF VALUE WITH UPS.

[LGAFF]

This is incredible, UPS corporate calls....they ask me if everything is now ok...why.,...because they advised UPS store never filed a claim dispute. That's interesting because the UPS store advised they did and they advised they did when I followed up 2 weeks ago.

I tried to call the UPS Store in Crystal Lake.....and they will now not answer. And its not like I have been harassing them, we spoke the day of and then two weeks ago...however UPS corporate called them before they called me....

Now I am super pi$$ed

[GOLDCYLON]

This is incredible, UPS corporate calls....they ask me if everything is now ok...why.,...because they advised UPS store never filed a claim dispute. That's interesting because the UPS store advised they did and they advised they did when I followed up 2 weeks ago.

I tried to call the UPS Store in Crystal Lake.....and they will now not answer. And its not like I have been harassing them, we spoke the day of and then two weeks ago...however UPS corporate called them before they called me....

Now I am super pi$$ed


Hello Left hand..... hello Right hand :censored:

[LGAFF]

this is classic, I updated the UPS fiasco on facebook....they sent me a note asking me to call the UPS Store....

This is comical, they want me to call the store that lied to me and does not answer my calls.

[Dynomite]

I realize the damage is done and this is not going to help with the current problem, but.... for the future

I ship LT5 cams in a 2" sch 40 PVC pipe with PVC pipe caps on the ends (driven on & taped, not glued) Bundle together with reinforced tape for added strength & protection, then boxed accordingly.

I have never received or sent a package UPS or FED-X where the contents was damaged in shipping. I know the UPS guys by first name so you can imagine how much I ship by UPS. Just had to present the one and only opposite and positive view of UPS in this thread :handshak:

Again.........packaging is an art learned from experience :cheers:

[LGAFF]

Did you see the UPS story about the guy that left the laptop in the garbage can?(True and UPS admitted) or the video on CBS New York of them throwing packages out of the back of the truck onto the ground(wet and muddy)?



I might also add that I reviewed the packing I used with the UPS store; their position is that since there was newspaper in the box it was not appropriate.

1)wrapped in padded cardboard
2)Then wrapped in newspaper
3)layers of newspaper between cams
4)Box approved by UPS store
5)Air pillows on bottom and top of box
6)items packed tightly so as not to shift

This setup made it from FL and back 3 times....you may know the UPS guys by name, but I doubt you know who touches the boxes between. A lot fo games played by them that its not their issue, or I am not the shipper. I a

[LGAFF]

nothing but love and gentle care

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/12/20/exclusive-ups-workers-caught-on-video-handling-holiday-packages-without-care/


http://wtvr.com/2013/12/16/mom-devastated-after-ups-puts-christmas-package-in-the-trash/

[Dynomite]

CHIT HAPPENS :rolleyes:

http://complainaboutmyshipper.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/fededxcrash.jpg
http://www.extremejohn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/ups-truck-accident.jpg
http://www.cat5iveprint.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/FedEx-Truck-UPS-Truck-Cargo-Luice-Design.jpg

[LGAFF]

Yes it does, the difference is the ones who step up at that point and others that hide behind shells, and lie.....

[Dynomite]

Yes it does, the difference is the ones who step up at that point and others that hide behind shells, and lie.....
Good Point :thumbsup:

[LGAFF]

This is the UPS response to the BBB, they play THIS GAME....FEDEX apparently owns it franchses and their actions, UPS separates them and the tells you that you are not the shipper, and they owe you nothing....nice

The UPS Store is an individually owned franchise. Concerns regarding The UPS Store must be handled through the individual store or the corporate office. The customer entered into a contract to ship a package with The UPS Store. Furthermore, we can only discuss or resolve damage disputes with the shipper of the package (The UPS Store).

As a courtesy, we have forwarded the customer's concern to management of The UPS Store corporate office for follow-up. They will contact the customer no later than Monday.

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Obvious that UPS, like many companies, has written policies to protect their own interest at all costs. You can bet that the legal team was part of the process. It's sad that customer service has been calculated to the percentages.

Not enough competition to warrant customer satisfaction.

[efnfast]

There is nothing more important than customer satisfaction, that includes profit.