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View Full Version : Thank Goodness for Corvettes!


LancePearson
10-29-2013, 08:40 PM
I never thought I'd say this but today it's true: I'm down to my last Corvette!

The guy at the shop when I pulled in driving my 76 which I had not started in a year since my 91 ZR-1 showed up in my garage said this laughing at my horrendous plight.

I have a Corvette based 2008 TBSS that had to be towed in when the front drive shaft spline broke on Saturday with normal driving on the AWD 4:10 rear end, 2008 LS2 vette vehicle. Welcome to the world of no longer made cars: trailblazer..no gm parts so they are scrambling for one of them now while it is apart on the lift.

Monday I used my 91 ZR-1 to drive up to downtown Richmond to sign some investment papers at the parking lot next to the Federal Reserve bank. Worked great until I reached down to turn the key to start it up and head home. An hour and a half later when the tow truck showed up after the gauge showing insufficient power in the battery it had normal power and started right up! Go figure. It's in the shop where they can't duplicate it but are going to put a new defined quality, known entity battery in it.

Meanwhile, it was a bicycle or start the 76 up. Air cleaner top off, shot of starting spray and it fired right up and had not been driven in a year. Been driving it all day and love looking at it even though it is nowhere near the power or performance of the Z. I ought to sell it but it is such a sculpture piece and corners so well on twisty roads I can't bring myself to do it.

So, today, the guy at the shop was having a laugh at my expense, kidding me by saying as I left to get back in the 76 and go home: "Tough life, poor guy, you are down to your last Corvette!"

I'm pretty darned happy right now until the other two get back to have that 1976 Corvette and to be able to laugh with him about it.

Lance

-=Jeff=-
10-29-2013, 10:03 PM
There are threads here about the no start..

It could be one of a few things, I made some of the changes and I have not seen it return.. I changed the wired path for the solenoid and replaced the contactors I. The starter

Dynomite
10-29-2013, 10:24 PM
There are threads here about the no start..

Could be one of a few things, I made some of the changes and I have not seen it return.. I changed the wired path for the solenoid and replaced the contacts in the starter

Concur...I no longer have NO STARTS on either a 90' or 91' after a few good modifications as -=Jeff=- suggests.

Oh...and just turn the key on and have a couple guys push you forward popping the clutch in second and you are off and running :p

ghlkal
10-29-2013, 11:47 PM
So, today, the guy at the shop was having a laugh at my expense, kidding me by saying as I left to get back in the 76 and go home: "Tough life, poor guy, you are down to your last Corvette!"


:-D Great story and I'm glad the 76 started so you didn't have to ride the bike.

rhipsher
10-30-2013, 01:12 AM
Lance no start is one of those things that just doesn't give a damn where you are or what your doing or how inconvenient it is for you. It will leave you hanging with a 3,400lb paper weight that won't move.;) Oh yeah also a broken TB will do the same thing to you. But at least with a broke TB you can still move it in whatever gear your stuck in when it happens. lol! I have first hand experience with these unfortunate things and more throughout my years of ownership. It's just par for the course though. Depending on how attached you are to the car you either get rid of it or just fix it and get on with it.:cheers:

rhipsher
10-30-2013, 01:16 AM
It's a good Idea to keep a skateboard in the back hatch just in case. That is if you still know how to ride one:p

LancePearson
10-30-2013, 09:27 AM
I sure am happy to have the Vettes. Nothing like the Z. Funny thing when it has happened, when it won't start when you turn the key during the period when it does not the gauge on the dash shows something like 10 volts instead of 13 normally and that is before the key is rotated forward to the starter position. Even putting a booster battery starter on it did not change that. Well before anything happens anywhere near the starter.

Relay under dash, switch on clutch? All possible but it smacks of some heat oriented process as an hour and a half later when the car has cooled both times and you turn the key with nothing else different it reads 13 volts and everything starts as normal.

I'm wondering if somehow the alarm system gets kicked in. Have to read the book. Right now it's going to get a new battery as I don't know the age of the battery that was in it in Atlanta area last Dec. when I bought it and drove it home to Chester, Va. I've looked but not pulled the fender to pull it out. They have not been able to duplicate the problem in the shop either. Hopefully they will put the new battery in today. I asked them to pull codes on it but they had not done so yet when I asked. Perhaps that shows the issue. Battery booster connected to the battery made no change in the gauge reading either so it smacks of some relay or breaker cutting off to most everything other than dash lights.

We will see.

Glad I have the 76 which is still pretty and fun to drive if half the power of the 91 Z. Love to drive it on twisty roads with its bigger than stock 255 mm footprint tires.

Lance

-=Jeff=-
10-30-2013, 11:03 AM
SO what I did was trace the route for power to the solenoid. The last 'switch' is the clutch pedal prior to going to the Starter Solenoid. my mod for this was:

I installed a relay after the clutch switch, then I ran a 12v line direct from the battery Distribution block, through a fusible link to the relay(87), out of the relay(30) to the Solenoid.

Off the clutch switch the wire went to the relay(86) coil then from the relay (85) to Ground

http://www.the12volt.com/12voltimages/relaytextA2.gif

I replaced the solenoid contacts as well, as they were pretty beat up and full of carbon

another thing I did was the VATS Bypass (this was done first) but did not fix the issue you are seeing

nelson007
10-30-2013, 11:40 AM
Hello Lance,
I had the same problem yesterday. I took my 95 Z in the morning around town to do some errands. I stopped 3 or 4 times and all was OK. I decided to top off the tank. After filling the tank I go to start the car and it was dead except for one indicator light that said: “Check Gauges” . I was ready to call a tow truck and remembered I put a battery disconnect switch in last year. I though maybe it was not making good contact. After opening the hood the battery I saw the battery switch was closed. I opened the switch and than closed it to make sure it was completely closed. Got in the car and started right away. Go figure…

Nelson 007

cvette98pacecar
10-30-2013, 11:54 AM
Great story.

LancePearson
10-30-2013, 01:12 PM
Nelson, et al, I called the shop who has it to put the battery in and trouble shoot. They can't get it to fail as I have only had two instances in a year and both in the last two months. It may be electrical but it may also be something to do with the clutch switch too. In my case it dawned on me a little bit ago that my size fifteen feet may be the issue so that when I get it back I intend to locate the switch on the clutch and be sure I'm not somehow placing my big feet in such a way to kick the switch. The shop is checking the switch now when I called them. I don't think there is a battery switch like you have but since I'm not the first or original owner it could be. They should see that when they pull the battery. I normally would pull the body panel and put a new battery in but with this issue while it's in the shop I told them to go ahead and put a really good battery in and to do the annual safety inspection a month early while they had it. The TBSS they said this morning they found the right part and it is due in tomorrow but as a backup ordered the parts inside the discontinued part to rebuild it if need be because the new part might not be a perfect fit. They already ordered an aftermarket part which had different attachment points which creates the problem with GM no longer making the part where the front drive shaft from the transfer case on the AWD sends power to the front wheel differential and drive mechanisms. It is the receiver end of the fit the drive shaft splines in. When the splines sheared they also sheared the receiver's splines.
Lance

Bearly Flying
10-31-2013, 06:38 AM
Lance; Does your solenoid click when you turn the key?

Could be a set of $3.00 contacts could solve the problem.

Dynomite
10-31-2013, 07:20 AM
Right now it's going to get a new battery as I don't know the age of the battery that was in it in Atlanta area last Dec. when I bought it and drove it home to Chester, Va. I've looked but not pulled the fender to pull it out.
Lance

You mean pull the side panel besides the battery......remove the top bolt of side panel, remove Torx screws on Fender Well holding side panel, and bottom hidden bolt through slot provided in lower side panel (just loosen and not remove this bolt).

If the battery has good voltage (12.5) there is no need to get a new battery.

Do EXACTLY as -=Jeff=- suggests and install Starter Bypass Relay and next time you have Plenum off.....clean Starter Solenoid contacts with wire brush (wire wheel) :thumbsup:

I notice you mention "shop".......kind of hard to explain how to fix when you are not fixing yourself.....but here goes ;)

See item #7 LT5 Added Systems (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/2942569-tech-info-lt5-eliminated-systems.html#post1579114180)

See Starter, Starter Relay, Wiring Harness, Battery, and Plugs Tricks (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-3.html#post1581564085)

LancePearson
10-31-2013, 08:58 AM
I don't know if the solenoid clicks as I don't remember and the car is in the shop to troubleshoot it. The battery is of uncertain vintage and I want a new one so I know its provenance going forward. we also have state safety inspections here and that's due in a month so I've asked them to do all that, told them to check the clutch switch, the relay in the dash but have not told them of the solenoid contacts. The funny thing is the gauge when it happened showed something like an approx. 10 volts then when time elapsed it showed the normal nearly 13 volts and started perfectly. They have kept the car two days now trying to duplicate it and can't.

Why would the voltage gauge if it is starter solenoid contacts show such little voltage? Does not make sense unless the ecm is kicking some safety strategy in. Unfortunately, I did not have a volt ohmmeter with to check the battery at the time.

Right now once checked with new battery and required annual safety inspection when it gets home I'll listen for the solenoid click and also check to see if my big feet (size fifteen) somehow could be kicking the clutch switch. If need be over the winter I'll pull the plenum but when I do that it will be an opportunity also to put new injectors in, new coil packs and check the starter out completely while open, check any tubing out for resilience, etc. Thanks for the suggestions one and all. Lance

LancePearson
10-31-2013, 09:12 AM
dynomite, your photos and info are superb. Looked at the solenoid contacts photo and starter. Nice job all around for technical data. Lance

LancePearson
10-31-2013, 07:59 PM
Just fyi....got my tbss awd with the 2008 ls2 and 4:10 rear end in it back today. They scrambled around the USA and found the front part to the forward drive shaft whose splines failed and replaced the pieces from connection to the transfer case forward and the receptor piece in the, for lack of a better word, front differential that drives two axles to turn the front wheels. Since the parts are no longer made it was a good job to find them. Assembled and when I picked it up it now works like a brand new suv...better than it did. I bought it with 43000 miles on it to get more power than the straight six 2008 Trailblazer I had with 60,000 miles on it. It always shifted hard from first to second as it worked through the shifts in the auto tranny. The splines probably were failing the whole time from the previous owner hammering it to burn tires. Man, it drives great now. Was not cheap but one hell of a lot cheaper than a new transmission or rebuild and transfer case. Best it's ever been. Next: get the vette home tomorrow then my little fleet of three will be back in business.

Blownrunner
11-01-2013, 06:44 PM
I suspected the VATS and PASSKEY systems as every other corvette so equipped seems to have an issue. I got new ignition keys and problem went away. I also installed an emergency PASSKEY disable just in case, never had to use it yet.

I was because of my ZR-1 that I am now a AAA member though...

LancePearson
11-04-2013, 06:33 PM
Blownrunner...I believe after days in the shop trying to duplicate it that there was something on the little metal piece on the key that changed the resistance and it was 100% the vats system. I did get a new battery put in which I wanted for knowing age and power better on the battery but my conclusion was: 100% VATS. I may take it and get a second key made to carry in my wallet just in case. I have a backup at home now.

Lance