Solid Lifters?

[LGAFF]

Anyone running Solid Lifter buckets in their LT-5....my machine shop though I was giving up some decent hp by running hyd lifters. I would think that we would not have the ramp issues as you would with a traditional OHV setup. Any thoughts?

Audi/Volks make a solid lifter that would work in the LT-5

[Dynomite]

How are you going to run solid lifters in the LT5.....How are you going to adjust clearance?

How are you going to check clearance? To install the solid lifters you have to remove the cams....
To adjust the solid lifters you have to remove the Cam Covers.....

I do not get it.....this is beyond me :D

When you are regrinding cams one has enough excitement making sure you are within the max and min lift of the hydraulic lifters
let alone using Solid Lifters ;)

Over and Out :p

[LGAFF]

Would be the same way you do solid on other DOHC cars...Mercruiser actually did it so have others.

[tpepmeie]

what hp are we giving up? My hydraulic buckets are good 8000 at least, and nearly as light as mechanical buckets. If the lift curve is designed for hydraulic you won't be giving up anything.

Too much hassle, no benefit imo.

[XfireZ51]

what hp are we giving up? My hydraulic buckets are good 8000 at least, and nearly as light as mechanical buckets. If the lift curve is designed for hydraulic you won't be giving up anything.

Too much hassle, no benefit imo.


I'm w Todd. Maybe Al or Pete may have investigated and have some additional insight.

[LGAFF]

LS motors can run up 30-40 more HP with a solid lifter motor on the same cam specs.....hyd is not always as consistent. When they were planning the LT-5 racing engine, including the silver state...those were all solid lifter cams.

I am guessing the Bonfiied LT-5 with 550hp out of a destroked 5.0 is runnning solid lifters also....I guess its hard to say what we are and or are not giving up if no one has tried them. Obviously the folks in the LT-5 program saw them as beneficial

what hp are we giving up? My hydraulic buckets are good 8000 at least, and nearly as light as mechanical buckets. If the lift curve is designed for hydraulic you won't be giving up anything.

Too much hassle, no benefit imo.

[LGAFF]

Looking at old threads, looks like Flyin Ryan said that solids are better than hyd any day, but could/would be a PITA....5% increase in power. So another 30 hp

[XfireZ51]

Looking at old threads, looks like Flyin Ryan said that solids are better than hyd any day, but could/would be a PITA....5% increase in power. So another 30 hp

I'm really wondering if there isn't someplace else with a better ROI to find 5% more power. The question is "What environment is this motor supposed to live in?" Full race or are you picking up groceries? Everything has its compromises.
I think its important to first state your objective here.

[Dynomite]

I'm really wondering if there isn't someplace else with a better ROI to find 5% more power. The question is "What environment is this motor supposed to live in?" Full race or are you picking up groceries? Everything has its compromises.
I think its important to first state your objective here.

Going to town for Cappuccino.......just got to watch out for deer on the road :D

The deer are why I have Wilwood Rotors and C5 Z06 brake upgrades :sign10:

Oh....and getting JD parts when I need them fast :p

[LGAFF]

Going to town for Cappuccino :D

But really fast....

I was just talking with a company...Adjustment is usually every 40K miles. However....to cover their ***....they advise every 15K.

Obvisouly with cams, radio delete, AC delete, and not flappy muffler I am not worried about a quiet ride. :cheers:

[ALZR1]

But really fast....

I was just talking with a company...Adjustment is usually every 40K miles. However....to cover their ***....they advise every 15K.

Obvisouly with cams, radio delete, AC delete, and not flappy muffler I am not worried about a quiet ride. :cheers:


Where do you get lifters from,and shim that go with them?


Al.

[LGAFF]

Several vendors on line with the same size lifters 034 motorsports I believe carries them

[rkreigh]

typical full boogie porting starts to nose over the power curve up above 7300 rpms so why do you want to put solids in it??

unless you have the cams and cyl head flow to really top out that high you don't need to worry about solids and the hassle with the upkeep

chains should be stronger too if you want to rev it that high

[Hog]

I am of the opion that you dont necessarily need to rev higher to take advantage of solid lifters.

A solid lifter will provide more consistent duration and lift numbers, but they have the setup issues.

Find a roller mechanical lifter for an LT5, and then you would have something.

[rkreigh]

I think you are right as the car would definitely not have any variance caused the the hyd lifters

but is the "juice worth the squeeze" ??? not to me.

so would the solids be "shimmed" to adjust them? not really that clear on how the solid cam would be setup on an lt5

as for a roller tappet. not really possible without a major redesign of the head

ford and others are now using a "roller finger" rocker that rides on the cam and then lifts the valve that would be a cool setup but it would require a completely new head

not sure how you could even do a "roller tappet"

for sure we need nelson racing or another enterprising vendor to digitize and whip out some MY 95 billet heads.

we are kinda "stuck" with the stock head and it's the choke point IMHO.

a much better flowing head would make a huge difference.

about 700 or so hp is "all in" on the NA LT5

[tpepmeie]

about 700 or so hp is "all in" on the NA LT5

Ron, I think you can get upwards of 800 out of these heads, don't sell them short. But how much cam do you want to run?

To get there, you need to raise the peak power speed. The intake length is too long. 7500 rpm would be 5000 fpm piston speed with my stroke, which is a good 600 rpm higher than where I am peaking currently. Need to take more than an inch out of the intake tract length to make power there efficiently, and add about 20 degrees to the intake duration. I am at 255 @ .050 today, and that is about the limit for street.

The sheetmetal intakes I have seen all have compromises. Runners too short, and cross-section areas too big really hurt the torque output. There just isn't a good solution if you want it all to fit under the C4 hood.

These heads can move good air, but you have to have the other components right to use it.

Even at 7500, I wouldn't go to mechanical buckets. Unless I had money to burn and lots of time to get it right.

Todd

[Pete]

The new Porsche GT3 makes 475HP N/A from a 3.8L
Redline 9000 peak HP 8250 with hydraulic lifters.

Could be done but what are we trying to accomplish with solids?
Let me add if a pushrod motor benefits from solids might be they have too many moving parts/slop doesn't mean the LT5 will get same results since we have direct acting cam/lifter design.

Now if someone wants to spend the time and money I would love to know the outcome.

Pete

[Hog]

Pete, I think you are saying overhead valve engines have more valvetrain mass to overcome than overhead cam engines, thus may not react as favourably to solid lifters as OHV engines such as the GEn 1-GEN5 SBC.

I think you may be on to something there.

A solid OHC engine using solid direct acting lifters would be "lashed" via shims.

[XfireZ51]

Does anyone even have a hypothetical as to what hydraulic lifters is costing in terms of power? What would you need to gain (hp/tq) to make it worth your while to investigate? 5? 10? 25? 100? Any idea?

[Hog]

I think you are right as the car would definitely not have any variance caused the the hyd lifters

but is the "juice worth the squeeze" ??? not to me.

so would the solids be "shimmed" to adjust them? not really that clear on how the solid cam would be setup on an lt5

as for a roller tappet. not really possible without a major redesign of the head

ford and others are now using a "roller finger" rocker that rides on the cam and then lifts the valve that would be a cool setup but it would require a completely new head

not sure how you could even do a "roller tappet"

for sure we need nelson racing or another enterprising vendor to digitize and whip out some MY 95 billet heads.

we are kinda "stuck" with the stock head and it's the choke point IMHO.

a much better flowing head would make a huge difference.

about 700 or so hp is "all in" on the NA LT5
roller, but not direct acting
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb373/Paul_Schermerhorn/roller.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/Paul_Schermerhorn/media/roller.jpg.html)
but still has a hydraulic adjustment

[rkreigh]

roller, but not direct acting
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb373/Paul_Schermerhorn/roller.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/Paul_Schermerhorn/media/roller.jpg.html)
but still has a hydraulic adjustment

the roller follower finger rocker seems to be the way to go but that setup isn't going on an LT5 hood anytime soon

todd,

how about a "c5r" style crab cross ram intake?

would cost lots of low end torq but a 427 lt5 that power peaks at 7600 might well make 800 hp. dunno, never seen it.

but good to know that 800 hp is available from these heads

wouldn't it take around 400 cfm or so to get there??

and some BIG cams. I don't want to go any bigger on my cams, just like the heads to flow way better than they do now.

[Pete]

Pete, I think you are saying overhead valve engines have more valvetrain mass to overcome than overhead cam engines, thus may not react as favourably to solid lifters as OHV engines such as the GEn 1-GEN5 SBC.

I think you may be on to something there.

A solid OHC engine using solid direct acting lifters would be "lashed" via shims.


Yes.
Sorry for the confusion.

Pete

[LGAFF]

what hp are we giving up? My hydraulic buckets are good 8000 at least, and nearly as light as mechanical buckets. If the lift curve is designed for hydraulic you won't be giving up anything.

Too much hassle, no benefit imo.


todd, what changed?

[tpepmeie]

I'm raising the peak power speed, and using a much more aggressive cam lobe. On top of that, I am really pushing the piston to valve clearance tight, so need absolute control of the valve. Trying for 800 hp.

[rkreigh]

the guy to talk to about solid cams is fastlane

lane Goldstein he put quite a bit of effort into twisting the lt5 to 9k with his drag car with specialized chains, deck plates, a Hogan style sheet metal intake, and 421 ci producing 900 hp

love watching him drive that car, a shame it sits now

the maintenance to shim that engine and his maintenance routine involved periodic engine pulls and chain replacements

the longer chains were a thing of beauty but lane was pretty on top of the preventative maintenance program and the car performed accordingly!!