TOP END REFINISHING [Archive] - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

Schrade

10-12-2013, 02:47 PM

2nd ed.:

DEFINITELY read Cliff's - user <Dynomite> (http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16778) - links when he links them. They're not always directly to the pertinent information about what you're on at some point in repair - you'll have to read it ALL to get to the info, but it's ALL there, and you HAVE to go through it. (Thanks a ton for that stuff Cliff). Use your bookmarks tool in your browser for the info when you hit it, and note that sometimes you'll run across info that's IMPORTANT at a LATER point...

edit:
This is continued from the DataMaster thread, for 'hesitation' diagnosis
http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21259

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next in the 'Hesitation' troubleshoot is spark plugs and wires check. Meaning access to the distributor to yank the wires.

This is about to become a Plenum Pull.

ed.:
This is now a plenum pull thread.
Link to the best procedure / tips / tricks?

Franke

10-12-2013, 03:45 PM

I guess if you are going under there it might be wise to check all vac lines, check valves and mechanical/electrical connections too.

XfireZ51

10-12-2013, 06:58 PM

Next in the 'Hesitation' troubleshoot is spark plugs and wires check. Meaning access to the distributor to yank the wires.

This is about to become a Plenum Pull.

ed.:
This is now a plenum pull thread.
Link to the best procedure / tips / tricks?

There is no distributor. You mean the DIS and ignition coil housing.
The biggest PITA for me are the 2 Ignition Module connectors up under the plenum. Other than that it's about a 15-20 min job IF you don't need to drain the coolant.

That TB looks like it hasn't been off for some time. Any obvious signs of torn gasket or vacuum leaks.

Schrade

10-13-2013, 12:27 AM

11 bolts out - she's loose. Something holding it from underneath?

and all the surrounding plumbing unhooked and tagged...

???

Dynomite

10-13-2013, 12:37 AM

Great Photos....thanks....:handshak:

It's been asked of me why the TB, and TB extension were pulled. Do they not have to come off to yank the plenum?

Anyway here, 2 hours cleaning (+ some extra narcotics for standing time UGH).

Screw threads cleaned with a toothbrush, bolt holes cleaned running the screws in and out with WD40, and flushed with more WD spray. Passages with pipe cleaner and paintbrush. Gasket faces with 1600 grit.

Spic and span sterile. Hate those stains tho' :neutral:

And I didn't disconnect the linkage cams (YET)...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dyt7lCjas4Q/UlnPimCb22I/AAAAAAAAB00/kFrIlowI2tE/s1280/IMG_5679.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1EgvgPGWr2A/UlnR_PDSIgI/AAAAAAAAB1E/dI8HQPcj5SI/s1280/IMG_5680.JPG

Plenum to the car wash...

Jerry! My best buddy! happen to know anyone who sells gaskets??? :mrgreen:

Dynomite

10-13-2013, 12:59 AM

Thanks there Cliff - glad I could help.

What's in front of MAP??? LOCTITE???

Looks like some harness connecors???

Not sure what you are asking :confused:

See Removing Plenum (including the 10 minute Plenum Removal) (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-4.html#post1581663365)

15. Disconnect two small electrical connectors rear under Plenum (MAP and DIS).
16. Unscrew 1/4 bolt in Main DIS Connector rear of Plenum.

XfireZ51

10-13-2013, 01:24 AM

That the cam sensor plug. Feel underneath, should be a tang to unlock it. Be careful tho not to break the tang. Pull down and push back plug at the same time. You also unbolted the DIS connector right?

Schrade

10-13-2013, 01:33 AM

Drum roll...

:mrgreen:

Schrade

10-13-2013, 01:39 AM

... and now this message from our sponsor.

Schrade

10-13-2013, 01:53 AM

This is regular heat sink paste? For mounting CPU heatsinks???

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2853&stc=1&d=1381639984

XfireZ51

10-13-2013, 02:03 AM

Yep, heat sink grease. Get it at RadioShack. Is that coolant I see on #1 cylinder?

Dynomite

10-13-2013, 02:06 AM

Do NOT drop anything in those open Injector Housing Ports. First thing is to tape those ports as quickly as you can.

You are doing extremely good in taking photos....appreciate that :handshak:

Schrade

10-13-2013, 04:39 AM

Does the stumble continue if you keep the pedal at a steady 1.6% TPS? Or does it stumble on the initial tip in?

I missed this here Dominic - it lopes only as it I hit 1.6% throttle. No stumble at all, even on tip-in. I hit 1.6% TO, give it a TINY bit more gas - almost IMPERCEPTIBLE, and it starts to lope if I hold. Then it bounces from 1.6% - 2.4% TO, as shown on Datamaster. Once I get over 2.4%, it's perfect again through RPM range.

XfireZ51

10-13-2013, 09:42 AM

I noticed in the vid that the TPS% jumps around a bit. By "lope" do you mean a bit of a surge up and down the rpm?

Franke

10-13-2013, 11:04 AM

I noticed in the vid that TPS voltage was about .61 volt when it hit 1.6% tps then the rpms began rolling between 900 and 1275 rpms at one point. The TPS changed from .61 to .63 volts.

Franke

10-13-2013, 11:39 AM

Schrade, there is a note in the FSM about cleaning the TB. Page 6e3-c2-16. Good info to know with the throttle valve, IAC and TPS.

Schrade

10-13-2013, 02:03 PM

Schrade, there is a note in the FSM about cleaning the TB. Page 6e3-c2-16. Good info to know with the throttle valve, IAC and TPS.

Uh-oh... I pulled the extension off of the TB first.

Didn't NOTICE any problem... :confused:

MEK for CLEANING? MEK is hardener for fiberglass resin. TPS wasn't immersed. IAC WAS liberally coated with WD and paint thinner mix (mostly kerosene in WD, and I pull excess off with a Shop-Vac).

I noticed in the vid that the TPS% jumps around a bit. By "lope" do you mean a bit of a surge up and down the rpm?
Yep...

and thanks to Darryl for changin' thread name here.

Schrade

10-13-2013, 06:41 PM

Blow out the bolt holes with some lube til they run clean...

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2861&stc=1&d=1381700103

little spray on the bolts

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2862&stc=1&d=1381700442

Franke

10-13-2013, 09:01 PM

I wouldn't try to take it out as I believe it is a tight press fit and you may not be able to re-seat it again. Its aluminum and is 23 years in there. Those hoses are crushed pretty good at the connections. I replaced mine with premium fuel line hose. Are you going to repaint anything while it's off?

From Marc Haibecks ZR-1 info (quote) "As far as I know GM has never documented any information about the use of Dag as a sealing and anti-friction method on the LT5 throttle body.
Dag is a general purpose material that is graphite based and is applied like paint. It's used in various industrial applications that need properties like a thick material buildup, low friction and high temperature range. DAG is a trademark of the Verick, Acheson Colloids company. It is easy to mistake the Dag for dirt. Dirt builds up on the Dag in the normal operation of the engine. These throttle bodies were cleaned so as to preserve the Dag. They were simply gently wiped with a soft dry cloth. The use of a solvent will remove the Dag.

The Dag was used to improve the seal of the secondary throttles. There are problems with the Dag coating. It wears off or chips off quite easily. It will come off if it is wiped hard. It will come off very easily if a solvent is used. It's easy for an uniformed maintenance person to remove it unintentionally. At a glance it looks like dirt.

Loss of the Dag coating can cause excess air leakage past the throttle plates and loss of idle speed control range for the engine control system.

I recommend that the LT5 throttle body bores should never be cleaned. In my experience a normally dirty throttle bore causes no problem. In fact a little oily grime around the throttle plates helps seal the throttles to minimize air leakage. It also lubricates the edges of the plates to avoid sticking. If the bore is extremely dirty or you just can't resist the urge to clean it, do it gently with a soft dry cloth.

I have tried to reseal throttle plates with little success. The problem has been with poor adhesion to the bore with the sealing material.

When the Dag is no longer effective I improve the fit of the throttle plates to the bores with a polishing process." (End quote)

Schrade

10-13-2013, 09:27 PM

Thanks again for the info there Franke...

Now's a good time to do another fuel pressure test, with some hardware out of the way here.

Where do I jump the pump circuit? How about the 2 second shut-off for this test?

And how to cap the line in front of the FPR???

XfireZ51

10-13-2013, 10:19 PM

IM is worth it's weight in gold. Think about where it has to survive and what function it performs. Like a number f other systems on the LT-5, the IM is a
Co-processor to the ECM performing functions the base code didn't do.

Franke

10-13-2013, 10:57 PM

I would follow chart A7 in FSM to check fuel system on pages 6e3-A-29 thru 31. Your work looks good so far.

mike100

10-15-2013, 03:52 PM

Didn't you convert this car to an automatic? It is a good possibility the calibration needs more "accelerator pump shot".

XfireZ51

10-15-2013, 04:19 PM

I worked some silicone / alcohol mix into the IH orifices to loosen the seal, but

# 2 (primary? secondary?) popped off:

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2883&stc=1&d=1381863850

Didn't you first pull the clip holding the injector onto the rail?

mike100

10-15-2013, 06:06 PM

Those seals always come off- forget about it if you can't see it anymore. Just find any Bosch style injector on a junkyard car and pocket a few extras.

Schrade

10-15-2013, 06:08 PM

Didn't you convert this car to an automatic? It is a good possibility the calibration needs more "accelerator pump shot".

I noticed the hesitation when I got it... Wouldn't vac supply to the FPR do that anyway? Or just not enough?

And I've always pulled the injector & rail assembly (and re-installed) as a whole - LT1's anyway. Is it easier to remove the rails withOUT them in place?

Schrade

10-15-2013, 08:16 PM

Should I pull the IH's next? Or DIS?

Schrade

10-15-2013, 08:39 PM

Injector looms - will they come up off of the back of the IH's? How?

Or does each wire have to come out of the loom first?

Dynomite

10-15-2013, 09:10 PM

Do not remove those clips from the injector wire harness (just push on them and they will release)...if you remove them just something more that can fall where you do not want it.

Well, now some trouble.

6 injector connector seals P side fell out. 3 recovered, and 3 MIA. In the lifter valley???

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2885&stc=1&d=1381866229

Dynomite

10-15-2013, 09:13 PM

yes

Does the crossover tube grommet pull straight out of the backside of the IH?

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2889&stc=1&d=1381881367

Dynomite

10-16-2013, 12:41 AM

I would get a new PCV Connector (http://jerrysgaskets.com/store2/root/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=76) from Jerry that fits tight and you do not have to concern yourself with it popping off again. That PCV connector you are cleaning has had its day :D

Oh....and when you get everything out of the valley......I started with a scraper........then degreaser....then HOT high pressure washer......then steel wool :D.....then more degreaser and then a final HOT high pressure washer.....and blow on that valley drain with compressed air after first squirting degreaser from the top down.

Some cleanup...

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2894&stc=1&d=1381893721

Do spark plugs get any anti-seize?

I put just a tad of anti-sieze on the plug threads and torque with 1/4 inch socket and spark plug adapter by feel (snug tight but not too tight) :D

Franke

10-16-2013, 12:42 AM

Ignition coils I believe. Looks like they were replaced at some time. Measure them ohm wise. I agree with Dyno. I bought new rubber fitting from Jerry and it is nice and tight. Be sure to check the rubber pipe for cracks by flexing it. I had 5 holes in mine.

Dynomite

10-16-2013, 12:55 AM

OK....have to ask.....who in their right mind would work on an LT5 during initial restoration wearing a nice White Sweat Shirt.....:sign10:

Do those mounting prongs get di-electric grease? Same as spark plug boots? Do spark plugs get any anti-seize?

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2893&stc=1&d=1381886202

Franke

10-16-2013, 01:03 AM

Dyno, notice the fingernails too--- no dirt. He must be a surgeon. White sweat shirt, no dirt.

Schrade

10-16-2013, 01:27 AM

OK....have to ask.....who in their right mind would work on an LT5 during initial restoration wearing a nice White Sweat Shirt.....:sign10:

Right mind? Me? :sign10: That's a good one! And you'll know who's NOT right mind when you see it dry-fit all together, and then UN-plugged AGAIN.

No dirt? That's FILTHY. Cliff's is clean http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/MRBLU/ZR1Coilpacdetail.jpg

Clean as you go. Schrade's rule of :thumbsup: . Sterile Spic n Span clean. Probably get it all perfect, and never find out what made the 'Hesitation'. WAH. :-({|=

Makin' a list for Jerry's (and checkin' it twice)...

No di-electric grease on the Coil Pac prongs?

Dynomite

10-16-2013, 07:09 AM

Keep up the great photo coverage.......

More reference - study layout, etc., ...
Darryl; Dom; if snappics are suckin' up too much server space, lemme' know here...

Where are your photos stored and you have thumbnail as well as larger photo (both....how does that work)?
My photos are stored on photobucket and I recently had to upgrade to Photobucket Pro because of a bandwidth issue. But then again I have over a thousand photos viewed on a couple Forums :D

I have three photos (total) of a Semi Truck and Grain Cart in a corn field stored on this web site (in my public profile) which someone complained that was poor use of bandwidth one time but you know how that goes. I used those photos to show that alternative of using this Forum as a photo host vice Photobucket and to also show photo sizing (those three photos I have stored here (Public Profile) are of three different sizes if you click on them).

No dirt? That's FILTHY. Cliff's is clean http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b79/MRBLU/ZR1Coilpacdetail.jpg

That is ZR1Vette photo....here are my photos :)
I think I destroyed about three red sweat shirts along the way with oil stains I could not remove :D
I buy Simple Green in BULK (for clothes as well as hands).

1990 LT5
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/A%20Corvette%20LT5%2090/f1e67ee1-dca6-4b7e-b799-feb1ba5026d5.jpg

1991 LT5
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/D%20Engine%20LT5/f6da30fd-c4c0-4c81-9e31-f7510aaf14f2.jpg

1990 L98
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/A%20Engine%20L98/df591f5e-28e0-4cc8-b0b8-13631b879eb6.jpg

Franke

10-16-2013, 09:21 AM

Nice engine bay pics dyno. Did you do all of the work?
Schrade, do you remember if your engine hesitation also occurs on open loop 1.6% - 2.4% TPS (cold engine) as well as closed loop (hot engine)?

Dynomite

10-16-2013, 09:23 AM

Nice engine bay pics dyno. Did you do all of the work?

Yep......and have the destroyed clothes to prove it now used as rags :D

GOLDCYLON

10-16-2013, 09:58 AM

OK....have to ask.....who in their right mind would work on an LT5 during initial restoration wearing a nice White Sweat Shirt.....:sign10:

The dielectric grease wont hurt anything and is not a bad idea. Any thoughts of spraying the plenum since you spent all that time cleaning it? I know your chasing another problem but you will hate yourself for not doing it while you are there. D

Franke

10-16-2013, 07:43 PM

Schrade, do you know if those are the original injectors? Reason I ask is mine looked just like those before I replaced them with SS.

Schrade

10-16-2013, 08:16 PM

Keep up the great photo coverage.......

If you're a dummy, Like Hansel and Gretel, and Schrade, you better leave a trail of bread crumbs SOMEwhere, so you can find your way home http://www.zr1.net/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

Dynomite

10-16-2013, 09:05 PM

If you're a dummy, Like Hansel and Gretel, and Schrade, you better leave a trail of bread crumbs SOMEwhere, so you can find your way home http://www.zr1.net/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

You mean Hansel, Gretel, Schrade, and Dynomite......:sign10:

Your logic is precisely why I started the items in my signature..........so I would not forget the good advice when I found it :D

Thanks for what you are doing especially with the photos :thumbsup:

Schrade

10-16-2013, 09:22 PM

Blew through each line of the rail crossover both ways with spray lube and Shop-vac'ed excess (A tip - DON'T Shop-Vac gasoline - the magic smoke will get out of the Shop-Vac (and your lungs too, and electronics and organics don't work no more when the magic smoke gets out http://www.zr1.net/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif ) ) .

Too many more lines to un-hook. Came clean on a paper towel to start...

With only 44 psi static, then if the FPR needs replacing later, how deep do you have to go? Can it be swapped without yanking the plenum?

Even tho' Marc says 44 is good, it's way under FSM spec. Gotta' keep everything in mind here...

Franke

10-16-2013, 10:06 PM

Contamination in the MAP hose if severe enough can cause an inaccurate signal to the ECM. Some guys on here have mentioned finding oil in the MAP hose from the plenum. I cut one of these MAPs open in a previous post and it has a pressure sensitive integrated circuit of some kind that the vacuum acts upon to convert the vacuum reference to an electrical signal.

Schrade

10-16-2013, 10:15 PM

Is there a resistance spec check for MAP sensor?

I read about the oil fouling in the hose, but didn't know what to look at in DM readouts...

Franke

10-16-2013, 11:54 PM

Is there a resistance spec check for MAP sensor?

I read about the oil fouling in the hose, but didn't know what to look at in DM readouts...

DM only shows kPa for MAP vacuum. No resistance check for MAP. There is a signal voltage check that is related to several codes being set. Look at page 6E3-A-52 and you will find the parameters for the MAP signal. Also shown is a kPa vs. voltage chart. Chart C1-D on page 6E3-C1-21 is the best way to test the MAP but only if you use a scan tool. ...........((((Do not attempt to test the MAP with a hand held pump or you could damage it beyond use as the IC inside is sensitive....))) [-X I understand you didn't show a code but if you wish to check the MAP its a good place to start voltage wise.
When my old MAP went bad I had a hard time keeping the car running until the ECM substituted a MAP value and ran off of the TPS signal. (Limp mode).

Schrade

10-17-2013, 01:17 AM

The second jar of stuff didn't come from the MAP crossover / PCV's.

No such critter as MAP crossover - I meant the crossover that HAS the 2 PCV valves. Is that all that is - is the PCV plumbing? Why 2 PCV's anyway?

////////////////////////////////////////
Injector looms - will they come up off of the back of the IH's? How?

Or does each wire have to come out of the loom first?

Injector looms? :rolleyes:

Just a typo there - I meant 'spark plug wire' looms... :mrgreen:

Then the PCV orifices (???)
orifices?
Or ori-feces? (they did have a lot of s&*% in 'em)
Maybe orifeceii? (pl)
http://www.lotrplaza.com/images/smileys_plaza/smiley9.gif

A26B

10-17-2013, 01:52 AM

Schrade

10-17-2013, 04:09 AM

Cliff; for a 'Top End Resto' thread, this would have to get hacked off @ post 66. Darryl or Dominic would have to do it, and I'm bettin' that would be a pain... :neutral:

Schrade

10-17-2013, 04:12 AM

I just read this most excellent documented thread.

When I got to the end though...... Houston we have a problem!!

Silicone kills O2 sensors. Whether in the fuel system (this instance) or the exhaust system (sealant on gaskets, etc.), or the coolant(coupled with a leaking head gasket or leaking injector housing gasket), silicone gas coats O2 sensors & kills them so they can no longer detect O2.

I always recommend using simple motor oil on fuel system o-rings.

Got it Jerry; thanks!!! The rails are still on the table; I can pull and wipe the INJ rings. Synthetic? Dino? Or 90 weight gear oil?

And do you take PP? I need at least one gasket on the list so far here, if ever we get to re-assembly...

A26B

10-17-2013, 04:43 AM

Got it Jerry; thanks!!! The rails are still on the table; I can pull and wipe the INJ rings. Synthetic? Dino? Or 90 weight gear oil?

And do you take PP? I need at least one gasket on the list so far here, if ever we get to re-assembly...

Do you run 90w gear oil in your engine???:sign10:

Sure, we take PP or CC pick your favorite when you check out from the web store.

A26B

10-17-2013, 09:07 PM

Dynomite

10-17-2013, 09:33 PM

You do know there are O-rings inside of the injector housing at the primary injector locations...... A little oil on the finger to lube them before installing injectors will make the installation easier & protect the O-rings from damage. FWIW, the original O-rings are 20+ years old and we now have ethanol in gasoline. You might give some thought about replacing the fuel system O-rings while you are at this juncture.
Yep.. ..do what Jerry says as well as prolly check that Cylinder Case Vent Cover Gasket (http://jerrysgaskets.com/store2/root/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=11)

Do not open up that Cylinder Vent Cover and drop something in that area ;)

You prolly need an "O" ring pick to get those "O" rings out of the Injector Housing Primary Injector ports.
http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/products/p_749001595_1.jpg

I am prolly the only one that replaces the secondary Linkages with NEW Linkages (a relatively inexpensive improvement).
The little secondary ball joints fit into plastic sockets on the linkage and with age those ball joint plastic sockets get sloppy.

There is a lot of little things I do under the Plenum since I am there.
I do not want to have to think of going their again (but I do go there again) :D

http://jerrysgaskets.com/store2/root/images/10122105-N.jpg

Secondary Linkage (http://jerrysgaskets.com/store2/root/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=179)

GOLDCYLON

10-18-2013, 06:14 PM

By request. I split the threads. GC :cheers:

A26B

10-18-2013, 08:21 PM

Yep...... that's where it goes. You will also need to remove the Secondary Port Throttle Linkage Shields and the linkage itself to get the CC Vent Cover out. I suggest you tighten the bolts (13ea, 8mm hex) first and clean all around it first so none of the gunk & grit around it falls in when the Cover is removed. Once it's off, virtually a straight shot down into the crank case.

It's no big step to go ahead & remove the injector housings while you are this deep. The bolts typically get loose over time and the gaskets may be in sad shape. A lot easier to access the Primary Fuel Injector Lower Seals with the housings on the bench.

GOLDCYLON

10-18-2013, 09:15 PM

Stainless bolts. Just saying you need em.

GOLDCYLON

10-18-2013, 09:17 PM

Where is this gasket? Have I not gotten there yet? It's under the gizmo that the secondary vac reservoir sits on? I am WAY lost...

http://jerrysgaskets.com/store2/root/images/10168682.jpg

Under here? I am in WAY over my noggin here http://www.fiero.nl/forum/smiley_dizzy.gif

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2947&stc=1&d=1382137407

I wondered why only half of the INJ's came out of the IH's with their rings...

Welcome to the oil breather box yep its under all that crap...... Jerry's right in for a penny in for a pound pull the IH housings while you are in there

GOLDCYLON

10-18-2013, 09:19 PM

Welcome to the oil breather box yep its under all that crap...... Jerry's right in for a penny in for a pound pull the IH housings while you are in there

Clean out the v galley hole underneath the starter. The drains out the back side of the transmission via a drain tube

Dynomite

10-18-2013, 09:27 PM

Clean out the v galley hole underneath the starter. The drains out the back side of the transmission via a drain tube

And said this before....I do not give up ;)
Since you have the starter out, take the screws out of the end of the starter solenoid and polish up the contacts.

I had a NO START condition on a 90' and after I towed it for a start....got home and it fired right up. If the solenoid does not move (no clicking indicating the Starter Solenoid did not move) as in my case then a sticky Solenoid or Solenoid Ground Connection. If the Solenoid clicked/moved...then bad Solenoid contacts or bad connection Battery cable (Positive) to starter/battery or bad ground (Negative) engine to battery.

Starter Relay, Wiring Harness, Battery, and Plugs Tricks (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-3.html#post1581564085)

The Starter Solenoid is shown in the left photo with slight burnt contacts in right photo.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Maintenance%20ZR1/bac49725-6086-4f07-a929-9f1f498e4d50.jpg (http://s287.photobucket.com/user/dynomite007/media/Maintenance%20ZR1/bac49725-6086-4f07-a929-9f1f498e4d50.jpg.html)http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Maintenance%20ZR1/e8886408-e5b8-40d3-a5d2-199e22f85e0a.jpg (http://s287.photobucket.com/user/dynomite007/media/Maintenance%20ZR1/e8886408-e5b8-40d3-a5d2-199e22f85e0a.jpg.html)

The Solenoid contacts in left photo were wire brushed clean in right photo.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Maintenance%20ZR1/95a2d94c-6e14-4206-ab39-e157c17fc6a2.jpg (http://s287.photobucket.com/user/dynomite007/media/Maintenance%20ZR1/95a2d94c-6e14-4206-ab39-e157c17fc6a2.jpg.html)http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Maintenance%20ZR1/e6b04516-3ebb-49ab-9f32-1da552901435.jpg (http://s287.photobucket.com/user/dynomite007/media/Maintenance%20ZR1/e6b04516-3ebb-49ab-9f32-1da552901435.jpg.html)

Dynomite

10-18-2013, 10:16 PM

rhipsher

10-18-2013, 10:29 PM

Your a Wildman Shade.

Schrade

10-18-2013, 10:35 PM

Stuff paper towel in those ports ASAP.....;)
Actually you did cover with duct tape.....:D
I stuff paper towel first just in case the duct tape gets moved.

Actually I use that Blue Tape painters use to mask off windows and stuff......it comes off clean.

Are you going to remove those cam covers :p

I should just shut up and watch :sign10:

You got a helper...I can tell....someone else is taking those photos :D

Nope - no helper here Cliff - got one of the cams on a tripod http://www.zr1.net/forum/showpost.php?p=185672&postcount=95

But do feel free to do a road trip...

Your a Wildman Shade.
Yup - ever since I hatched.

Dynomite

10-18-2013, 10:43 PM

Your a Wildman Shade.

I concur :handshak:
Wildman Shade is setting NEW STANDARDS :thumbsup:

That moniker Shade may stick ;)

rhipsher

10-18-2013, 10:48 PM

I concur :handshak:
Wildman Shade is setting NEW STANDARDS :thumbsup: And breaking new ground. He has inspired me to attempt changing my own oil.:cheers:

Dynomite

10-18-2013, 10:58 PM

Get some oil under the hose w/ little screwdriver (SPEAKING of screwdrivers ) and break the seal

What I do for hoses that refuse removal is take my special tool (single edge razer blade) and cut hose length wise over the connector and then using a flat screw driver lift the cut edges (same on coolant hoses). Since I am installing new hoses anyway ;)

Cliff, Jerry - anybody - got a snappics of this guy OUT? It ain't budgin' or rotatin' and gotta' see what I'm lookin' for here...

Get a couple of these also from Jerry.........Grommet PCV Valve (http://jerrysgaskets.com/store2/root/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=278)

Do NOT jimmy the surface of the Injector Housing......You could just take a single edge razer blade and cut off flush and then pull it out from the center.....

http://jerrysgaskets.com/store2/root/images/14078872-N.jpg

Schrade

10-18-2013, 11:37 PM

And breaking new ground That scares me. I'm countin' on lotsa' help re-assembly here; LT1 was cake compared to this - did the same thing on CF before gettin' banned (for something else) (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-tech-performance/2033363-gasket-replacement-a-few-pics.html).

I slow down, bolts back in empty holes, post up, write stuff out as you go, helps to remember sequences...

IH cleanup begins (FIRST SIDE - might be ready for BG in the spring, WITH the Z, instead of my little Nissan sewing machine :rolleyes: ) .

Oil the bolts, run 'em in and out a few times, clean threads with a toothbrush as you go

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2961&stc=1&d=1382149145

Label bolts config

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2962&stc=1&d=1382149225

ready for a bath

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2963&stc=1&d=1382149422

mike100

10-19-2013, 12:34 AM

I left my grommet in and just undid the hose clamp and pulled the tube out. BTW, I have had the lid off my LT5 3 or 4 times and it only takes about 3-4 months for it to become filthy again. The C4 vette sucks up more garbage up its nose than a coke addict. Nature of the beast I guess. Good thing you are taking pics because that's the only way the clean will last.

Franke

10-19-2013, 01:00 AM

Schrade, that grommet(s) may have been installed previously with some RTV and could be why it doesn't budge. Some folks do that to assure no leaks but it makes it a little tougher to remove too.

mike100

10-19-2013, 01:31 AM

No additives can be added? No filters in any emissions plumbing? Some sort of netting where air come into engine bay?

Doesn't most of the 'inside buildup / carbon', come from hammer down?

Just road dirt and dust-gets all in the valley of the engine in no time. Been there done that I washed my parts in the dishwasher to help clean out the metal shavings after porting.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c265/mschrameck/DSC03675.jpg

Schrade

10-19-2013, 01:41 AM

Just road dirt and dust-gets all in the valley of the engine in no time. Been there done that I washed my parts in the dishwasher to help clean out the metal shavings after porting.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c265/mschrameck/DSC03675.jpg
Now THAT looks clean. Can I mail' ya' mine? :mrgreen:

You do know there are O-rings inside of the injector housing at the primary injector locations...... A little oil on the finger to lube them before installing injectors will make the installation easier & protect the O-rings from damage. FWIW, the original O-rings are 20+ years old and we now have ethanol in gasoline. You might give some thought about replacing the fuel system O-rings while you are at this juncture.

OK - going back re-reading stuff...
Damn if I didn't forget about the primary O's in the IH. Probably blew them out at the car wash (afraid to look now)...

And note to self (thanks again on this one)
Yep...... that's where it goes. You will also need to remove the Secondary Port Throttle Linkage Shields and the linkage itself to get the CC Vent Cover out. I suggest you tighten the bolts (13ea, 8mm hex) first and clean all around it first so none of the gunk & grit around it falls in when the Cover is removed. Once it's off, virtually a straight shot down into the crank case.

It's no big step to go ahead & remove the injector housings while you are this deep. The bolts typically get loose over time and the gaskets may be in sad shape. A lot easier to access the Primary Fuel Injector Lower Seals with the housings on the bench.
Usually DO do cleaning before & after breakdown for this reason - another good tip there http://www.zr1.net/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

Dynomite

10-19-2013, 02:14 AM

BTW, I have had the lid off my LT5 3 or 4 times and it only takes about 3-4 months for it to become filthy again. The C4 vette sucks up more garbage up its nose than a coke addict. Nature of the beast I guess. Good thing you are taking pics because that's the only way the clean will last.

My 90' and 91' valleys stay pretty clean. I worry more about mice in the valley setting up housekeeping. I use Bounce to disappoint them in that regard :D

carter200

10-19-2013, 03:21 AM

Don't forget to send me your coolant pipes after you paint or PC so you can have them engraved like the billet throttle plate. Makes a great balanced looking engine ;)

carter200

10-19-2013, 04:01 AM

I was thinking of how to label the faces of the coolant pipes to break up the Red Gloss - they're kinda' obnoxious right now; got any snappics there carter?

Not on my regular computer so can't post a pic but I bet one of my previous customer can post a pic of their coolant pipes for you.

Dynomite

10-19-2013, 06:31 AM

I was thinking of how to label the faces of the coolant pipes to break up the Red Gloss - they're kinda' obnoxious right now; got any snappics there carter?

Photochop ideas... first coat still smells like pain - still curing.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/ZR1%20Modified/CarterIHCoolant-1.jpghttp://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/ZR1%20Modified/CarterTBCoolant-1.jpg

This is Carter engraving on silver. On red I have no clue what color you could fill the engraving or how the chevy symbol would appear.
There must be some color combination that would appear compatible with your red/orange color.

You prolly want to wire wheel brush the ends of those coolant manifolds where the coolant hoses fit so they are not clamped onto paint.

You can see I have TB coolant eliminated but I promised GC I would not mention modifications in this thread to over complicate your restoration :D
So forget I said that ;)

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/A%20Corvette%20LT5%2090/f1e67ee1-dca6-4b7e-b799-feb1ba5026d5.jpg

An Example of Black engraving on red....
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z224/A26B/234SGC415.jpg

Schrade

10-19-2013, 07:26 PM

Any thoughts on the moth in #3???

http://www.zr1.net/forum/showpost.php?p=185699&postcount=106

If he dies in there, I can pull #3 plug, put the Shop-Vac on the spark plug port, and pull his dry carcass out, BUT I GOTTA' SEE HIM!!!

What if I don't get his *** outta' there?

Franke

10-19-2013, 07:55 PM

I'm wondering if you can blow him back out with air in spark plug hole or vac on intake port with spark plug removed to create air flow if valve is open.

mike100

10-19-2013, 08:11 PM

That moth will be nice and squishy and won't hurt a single thing in your engine. he will get stuck in the catalyst, but will turn to ash quickly.

As far as the residue inside the I/H...forget about over cleaning that- that is a passage for the crankcase ventilation and is full of oil mist 100% of the time. Dirty oil will be all over it the first time you drive it.

Franke

10-19-2013, 10:05 PM

Schrade, see if you can reduce the shop vac nozzle to a small hose to get the critter out of the intake port. So far lookin' good.

Franke

10-19-2013, 10:45 PM

I vote for starter.

Schrade

10-19-2013, 11:15 PM

Get the INJ looms back.

CC hoses off - they rotated as soon as the clamps were loose:

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2994&stc=1&d=1382234708

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2995&stc=1&d=1382234840

Clamps in the drink. ................... Shaken...................... not stirred ........... http://www.rocketryforum.com/images/smilies/yawn.gif

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2996&stc=1&d=1382235035
Hoses marked P + D, scrubbed, Trans-X. Ready to bag.

Fished, and out to dry.

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2997&stc=1&d=1382235233

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2998&stc=1&d=1382235233

carter200

10-20-2013, 05:41 PM

I was thinking of how to label the faces of the coolant pipes to break up the Red Gloss - they're kinda' obnoxious right now; got any snappics there carter?

Photochop ideas... first coat still smells like paint - still curing.

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2967&stc=1&d=1382166489

I can machine the coolant pipes as you have them marked but NOT the air horn. I have tried one with bad results. The coolant pipes would look great with my engraving done with my design and painted all black including the Bowie.

carter200

10-20-2013, 09:07 PM

Could you work with my Red, with Yellow Bowtie, with Black LT 5?
http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2967&stc=1&d=1382166489

If not, how deep is the etch? I can do the Yellow myself, upon return here...

Sorry if this is 'mod' talk there Darryl, instead of top-end breakdown stuff; I'll get w/ Mr. C off boards...

Yellow and black will be fine.....

GOLDCYLON

10-21-2013, 10:05 AM

Dynomite

10-21-2013, 10:07 AM

I would know 'NOTHING... NOTHING' about mods :)

What are mods???? :)

Schrade

10-21-2013, 06:57 PM

Starter. Another BEAR. Especially when you try to TIGHTEN, and not LOOSEN one of the bolts - dumbace :redface:

Double box wrench. Couldn't do diddly with torque wrench / 1/2" - 3/8" drive adapter / 8" ext / u-joint / 13mm - probably didn't have enough pieces in the :dontknow:sequence .

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3006&stc=1&d=1382392230

Separation

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3007&stc=1&d=1382392363

into the drink for a brush-off, then set to dry + Shop-Vac excess solvent.

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3008&stc=1&d=1382392497

XfireZ51

10-21-2013, 07:08 PM

Deleted thumbnails. ;)

Franke

10-21-2013, 08:34 PM

Dynomite

10-21-2013, 08:47 PM

Yep, I agree with Dyno. I think glycol anti freeze + heat will eat away at the paint over time. Its best to have the hoses clamped on to metal instead of paint in my opinion. You could try it and see but no warranties. They sure are purdy though. :)

I agree with Franke the pipes should not be painted where the hose clamps go.....Powder Coat OK but not paint. Then I would use a thin coat of Permatex inside the hose before I slip them on the pipes. Clamps as close to the raised ring on the end of the pipe as possible. Leave the paint on the portion of pipe up to where the clamp would be on the pipe.

Dynomite

10-21-2013, 09:10 PM

Now do not move that AC compressor around too much without tying down the hose ends going into the Evaporator. You do NOT want any bending on those pipes going into the Evaporator or they could break like mine did :p

Oh.....on the painted pipes....I mean to say I would not have the hose clamp over a painted pipe.....Leave the paint on the portion of pipe up to where the clamp would be on the pipe. You can see with the SAMCO hose clamps being right next to the raised portion of the pipe.

Now on another point.....SAMCO Silicon hoses are more elastic and flexible with temperature than rubber hoses and I have had SAMCO hoses slip on me especially with Permatex on the pipe/inside the hose. I still use a bit of Permatex but am careful where I place the Hose Clamp.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite/bf233974-a8a2-4438-b4d9-10823f5fb378.jpg

Got it Cliff; once they cure, I can put a razor to the ends...

We'll try this with the A/C comp (this was LT1 cleanup)

Schrade

10-21-2013, 10:52 PM

Now do not move that AC compressor around too much without tying down the hose ends going into the Evaporator. You do NOT want any bending on those pipes going into the Evaporator or they could break like mine did :p

Oh.....on the painted pipes....I mean to say I would not have the hose clamp over a painted pipe.....Leave the paint on the portion of pipe up to where the clamp would be on the pipe. You can see with the SAMCO hose clamps being right next to the raised portion of the pipe.

Now on another point.....SAMCO Silicon hoses are more elastic and flexible with temperature than rubber hoses and I have had SAMCO hoses slip on me especially with Permatex on the pipe/inside the hose. I still use a bit of Permatex but am careful where I place the Hose Clamp.

What is Permatex? I know the brand name, but which of their products are you referring to, for the coolant pipe-to-hose connection seals ?

I've always slipped hoses back on with silicone fluid, or Trans-X ...

(story about Trans-X - I had a 60k '89 T-Bird auto, bought for a song in '93, with Ford TSB tech service bulletin for the auto valve body seals, that made it skip second gear (I didn't know about it). AAMCO said $1k to rebuild. A FORD shop tech told me the known issue, said (quietly) put in a bottle of Trans-X. I did. In 4 - 5 shift cycles, first drive, it shifted PERFECT. Trans-X does wonders on latex.......... )

Dynomite

10-21-2013, 10:58 PM

What is Permatex? I know the brand name, but which of their products are you referring to, for the coolant pipe-to-hose connection seals ?

You just had to ask :D

I use this Permatex Super 300......seems to work great for me ;)

Oh...yes.....it is not so easy to remove my Permatex Super 300 gaskets (I use single edge razer blade) but having said that....it is hard to imagine a gasket that is not sticking upon removal also sticking enough to do its job......if that makes any sense :p

I have NO leaks on ZR1 (LT5s), Corvette (L98s), Toyota Trucks, John Deer Tractors......:sign10:

I use Permatex Super 300 on gaskets such as oil pan, Injector Housing Gasket to Head, and water pump gasket (including thermostat gaskets or in our case thermostat mating surfaces) where oil or coolant is involved. I also use a bit of this Permatex on coolant pipes by lightly coating the inside of the hoses before I slip them on the coolant pipes. I also use Permatex Super 300 on oil pan drain plug metal gaskets and oil pan drain plug threads. I do not use Permatex on Head Gaskets, Plenum Gaskets, or Cam Covers.

On gaskets, I coat each side of the gasket lightly (very lightly) with Permatex Super 300 and then let it sit until the Permatex gets tacky such that the gasket will stick in place (helps keep gaskets in place while placing water pump or oil pan for example).

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/ZR1%20Maintenance/SSPermatex300_zpsaf26fa81.jpg

Permatex Super 300 is a non-hardening sealant designed to resist heat transfer fluids such as oil or antifreeze. Temperature range -65°F to 400°F (-54°C to 204°C); resists antifreeze, aviation fuels, aggressive detergent bearing oils and lubricants - See more at: http://www.permatex.com/products-2/product-categories/gasketing/gasket-sealants/permatex--super--300--form-a-gasket--sealant-detail#sthash.cpTjeJ8R.dpuf

There....admitted it....let the debate begin......:D
This is one of those personal preference things where there are many opinions.

Schrade

10-21-2013, 11:06 PM

I use this Permatex......seems to work great for me ;)

Non-hardening sealant designed to resist heat transfer fluids such as oil or antifreeze. Temperature range -65°F to 400°F (-54°C to 204°C); resists antifreeze, aviation fuels, aggressive detergent bearing oils and lubricants - See more at: http://www.permatex.com/products-2/product-categories/gasketing/gasket-sealants/permatex--super--300--form-a-gasket--sealant-detail#sthash.cpTjeJ8R.dpuf

I gotta' check MSDS for chemical makeup...

I've heard of NON-hardening RTV - Room Temperature Vulcanizing, but it's absolutely a mess at dis-connect time.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
alright - re-read for edit.................

Dynomite

10-22-2013, 04:23 PM

I think mine are original hose / clamp connections. After about an hour, and a busted knuckle, the hose 'assembly' is not out of the way yet.

If you use SAMCO Hose Clamps for example you can use an 8mm socket and 1/4 inch socket wrench with two 1/4 inch universal joints with a short and long extension. The screw on the SAMCO hose clamp is 8mm. You can set the hose clamps such that they can easily be reached with the 1/4 socket combination....even the Water pump hose connection on the thermostat housing from the passenger side frame rail.

I like the SAMCO Hose Clamps because they do not bite into any kind of coolant hose you might use. And......using an 8mm socket rather than a long screw driver with no universal joint gives you all kinds of options in those tight areas for tightening the various hose clamps.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite/bf233974-a8a2-4438-b4d9-10823f5fb378.jpg

Be very careful moving the AC compressor around with hoses attached to the Evaporator :sign10:

carter200

10-22-2013, 10:12 PM

I've run out of solvent. :( Break time.

No thoughts on the coolant crossover in Red?

I like the idea of the red. Go for it!!!

XfireZ51

10-22-2013, 10:16 PM

Do you still want the thumbnails?

Dynomite

10-22-2013, 10:16 PM

No thoughts on the coolant crossover in Red?......

Marc has some nice BLACK coolant hoses that would look good with red coolant crossover and red Injector Housing Coolant Manifolds......

I used Marc's BLACK coolant hoses on my 90' with SAMCO Hose Clamps.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/A%20Corvette%20LT5%2090/8f51ca7f-5ed1-4b78-8917-e8d107332bc7.jpg (http://s287.photobucket.com/user/dynomite007/media/A%20Corvette%20LT5%2090/8f51ca7f-5ed1-4b78-8917-e8d107332bc7.jpg.html)

Schrade

10-22-2013, 10:34 PM

Do you still want the thumbnails?

No - sure don't there Dominic; I thought maybe you'd written a VBS / batch script to wipe them from my posts.

I'm not loading to 3rd party host, but if you want me to, no problem...

XfireZ51

10-22-2013, 11:31 PM

No - sure don't there Dominic; I thought maybe you'd written a VBS / batch script to wipe them from my posts.

I'm not loading to 3rd party host, but if you want me to, no problem...

Just post links in main body of post. No need to upload attachments.

Schrade

10-29-2013, 07:26 PM

Where does this line 'sit'?

I'm not asking TO what - it's a TB extension vac line; if I swing it down, under the A/C connector, behind the alternator, it's pointing UP.

Just cant find where it 'lays' right...

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-QSR8TFGJUmk/UnA055fFyDI/AAAAAAAAB10/yQxwEMGUu6U/s1480/HPIM7318.JPG

Is this correct? Or had I already moved the vac line at this point?

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2947&stc=1&d=1382137407

Dynomite

10-29-2013, 07:59 PM

Goes to Charcoal canister Control Valve from under front of plenum.
I think I ran it behind the AC.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite2/73147832-f78e-4595-a8fc-b1502103894c.jpg

Franke

10-29-2013, 08:00 PM

Hi Schrade. See post # 18 on your page 2 . Also #37 and 41 It might help.

Schrade

10-29-2013, 09:00 PM

Got it; thanks...

Schrade

10-30-2013, 01:55 AM

Dry fit.

No gaskets, lube, fuel (or rails), and just few bolts. Injector assemblies are sterile as far as I'm concerned too - no need to ding up the tips. Looking for assembly sequence SNAFU's, make a gasket/etc., need list.

No problems, except for a few vacuum line over/unders...

Paint is Red (like SP wires). Cam flash gives that ugly pumpkin glow.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2aXeCqyWBXc/UnCM2NbCkII/AAAAAAAAB2I/jsPTddiaYPU/s1280/HPIM7321.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-fJaPZHaV3fc/UnCOs9dsECI/AAAAAAAAB2Y/LsQL27ZDK0o/s1280/HPIM7322.JPG

Found a wire brush perfect size for the IH ports, to get out the remaining carbon on final assembly.

Schrade

10-30-2013, 02:35 AM

This was the end of cleanup.

30lb monofilament quadrupled. Left it in the air overnight, 1/2 " over the bag. Then covered the engine, and cleaned the compressor underside.

lashed at the top of 2 x 4, not the brake fluid reservoir...

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-dHiZbeCodH0/UnCZhLiUBrI/AAAAAAAAB2w/TMP2h5uVG1I/s1280/HPIM7281.JPG

Afterward...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4DWaV7DLn4w/UnCZyerR6xI/AAAAAAAAB28/Nalk1Tm2Qsk/s1280/HPIM7284.JPG

Schrade

10-30-2013, 02:49 AM

A/C, alternator anchored, then the starter (nothing under it).

Dielectric grease on:

solenoid connector:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-bFUq3ZeTsMc/UnCbSc-WSYI/AAAAAAAAB3Q/s08efq6MyzQ/s1280/HPIM7309.JPG

between EACH of the 5 grounding strap rings at the Coil Pac mounting grid D side corner:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Qti2P5lIxKw/UnCcMzJTLwI/AAAAAAAAB3c/KrVIQWeBtaY/s1280/HPIM7310c.JPG

and while we're in the neighborhood, each of the 3 ground strap rings on the back on the P side head, after wipedown:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-X_YkanjZotw/UnCdak995ZI/AAAAAAAAB3w/ik8NCYVcyNY/s1280/HPIM7315.JPG

Schrade

10-30-2013, 02:58 AM

Then grease on Coil Pac mount grid prongs, and grid sockets:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-rNLjqL3NX-w/UnCerBoorFI/AAAAAAAAB4I/evvMJ18WqNQ/s1280/HPIM7312.JPG

and the Coil Pac wire studs:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-zUnLHuDkSlw/UnCfWFm5-mI/AAAAAAAAB4U/-7w94eYau_E/s1280/HPIM7313c.JPG

Paul Workman

10-30-2013, 07:23 AM

Then grease on DIS mount grid prongs, and grid sockets:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-rNLjqL3NX-w/UnCerBoorFI/AAAAAAAAB4I/evvMJ18WqNQ/s1280/HPIM7312.JPG

and the DIS wire studs:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-zUnLHuDkSlw/UnCfWFm5-mI/AAAAAAAAB4U/-7w94eYau_E/s1280/HPIM7313c.JPG

Very nice pics and documentation! R&R'ing the underside of the plenum, and especially paying attention to the electrical connections too, is so important to heading future trouble off at the pass. Judging by the "hits", it is a very popular thread. Congratz!

Worth mentioning? When you say "DIS", I believe you're referring to the coil packs and their grid mount. The DIS module is not to be confused with the coil packs, in that the DIS (mounted to the underside of the plenum) too has a critical, critical(!) thin and absolutely dirt free film of (white zinc oxide type) heat-sink grease that should not be confused with the dielectric grease shown in the pictures. The life expectancy of the DIS depends on it...Just sayin.

Schrade

10-30-2013, 02:13 PM

Thanks there Sir...

Yep - Coil Pacs; I keep saying DIS... :o

I don't know much

10-30-2013, 03:12 PM

Thanks there Sir...

Yep - Coil Pacs; I keep saying DIS... :o

I don't know much

Your doing pretty damn good for a guy that don't know much !

GOLDCYLON

10-30-2013, 03:26 PM

Thanks there Sir...

Yep - Coil Pacs; I keep saying DIS... :o

I don't know much

Looking squeaky clean :cheers:

Schrade

10-30-2013, 07:39 PM

Didn't you convert this car to an automatic? It is a good possibility the calibration needs more "accelerator pump shot".

Still thinking about this here Mike, as cause of hesitation...

Vacuum to tranny COULD interfere with FPR's response to vacuum - right?

BUT...

There's no vacuum connections to the tranny (that I know of) - it's got a dedicated electronic controller. Even the hammer down downshift is electronic.

Besides - the 'hesitation' was noticeable in, or OUT of gear...

Thoughts?????????????????????????????

mike100

10-30-2013, 09:33 PM

Still thinking about this here Mike, as cause of hesitation...

Vacuum to tranny COULD interfere with FPR's response to vacuum - right?

BUT...

There's no vacuum connections to the tranny (that I know of) - it's got a dedicated electronic controller. Even the hammer down downshift is electronic.

Besides - the 'hesitation' was noticeable in, or OUT of gear...

Thoughts?????????????????????????????

The reason I mention it is because when I used to have an auto car and ran a double pumper holley carb, the secondary opening always introduced too much air without the fuel flow (weak vacuum signal and a large plenum). getting the accelerator pump to squirt more gas sooner covered up the hesitation.

your calibration in software assumes the stock flywheel weight and maybe less drag right off idle. basically the light load fueling table and enrichment part could use some more fuel to see if it helps. Just thinking out loud, but this happens all the time with big carbs on automatic hot rods. You converting to automatic made me think of this. Also I have a friend who put a cam etc in a TPI car (auto) and has the same problem. this is also a speed-density car so I'm guessing enrichment is needed.

XfireZ51

10-31-2013, 04:51 PM

If you could add a 5V reference signal, you should measure how smoothly the TPS outputs varying voltage as you move the throttle. If you see jumps in the voltage, then the TPS has worn spots which will cause inconsistent fuel/spark.

Franke

10-31-2013, 06:18 PM

Yep, I agree. It would be better to measure the TPS voltage as it is varied instead of calculating resistance. You would then get an operational view of the output of the TPS. You can use a computer power supply for a 5 volt signal voltage if you have one laying around.

Schrade

10-31-2013, 08:41 PM

I did operational voltage in the TPS thread. Smooth, uninterrupted, linear voltage increase...

Not satisfied tho'...

======================================
edit:
There are NO problems with the engine, no codes, nothing.
There is only the 'off idle sag' / slow response in rpm's.
5V Voltage FROM THE TPS, back to the ECM, is LINEAR; half throttle = approximately 2.3V.
TPS resistance, in mine, is exponential / logarithmic, as snappics show here.
==========================================
But now a hardware problem...

One of the secondary butterfly screw heads sheared off of the butterfly shaft. TB inside and out is clean as a whistle, but now this...

Can low - profile nut/bolt sets be purchased for the shaft?

And, the irony / Carma of the DAG question; I've tarnished the finish in the rearward part of the P side bore. Snappics shortly here... :confused:

At worst, new (or rebuilt) TB. At best, lose a few CFM with different screws in the shaft???????????????

Bearly Flying

10-31-2013, 11:26 PM

Schrade; I have the screws and secondary throttle plates I recently removed from my 91.

If you need some shoot me a PM with your address.

Schrade

10-31-2013, 11:39 PM

Schrade; I have the screws and secondary throttle plates I recently removed from my 91.

If you need some shoot me a PM with your address.

PM en route there BF...

Franke

11-01-2013, 02:17 PM

I don't think so Schrade as I had 5 holes in mine and didn't experience hesitation. If I remember correctly that bottom hose goes to the IH to pull crankcase vapors.

Franke

11-01-2013, 08:21 PM

Schrade, I have a suggestion for ya. It may be better if you had a small insert inside that rubber pipe as it tends to get soft from the oil fumes and heat in back of the plenum. That way it won't collapse. I built a new pipe from soft copper and fittings and used it before I bought an original pipe from Jerrys. IMO that GM design was cheap and dirty.

Schrade

11-02-2013, 06:16 PM

So set the P side IH.

Blot the head surface with a paper towel:

clean (Jerry said DRY, no thin grease film, as I'm accustomed)

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-HTczuKaWSas/UnVqhtFBeuI/AAAAAAAACCY/CHHSrUHYROs/s1280/HPIM7360.JPG

Set the gasket; make sure they're aligned with a Phillips head (WTH is Phillips anyway? )

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-BD7V-8Jw1ww/UnVrMhMDV9I/AAAAAAAACCg/ZgUEg1_MM50/s1280/HPIM7362.JPG

efnfast

11-02-2013, 06:40 PM

:happy1::happy1:

Schrade

11-02-2013, 07:06 PM

Last bolt, w/ alt bracket + emission pipe... WTH is that hairy jam in that hole? :censored:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yiVvhOK-pDw/UnV2_fbwvbI/AAAAAAAACDc/L7d2Y9IJEQs/s1280/HPIM7365.JPG

Schrade

11-02-2013, 07:26 PM

I saw a couple of them &*%$ers tryin' to dodge the rag, and I know there's more of 'em hidin' in there...

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--FUs6kQ-zVY/UnV6vaDa0vI/AAAAAAAACDs/RKQCdoiqfj8/s1280/HPIM7367.JPG

so I introduced 'em to Mr. Shop-Vac. They didn't look happy gettin' bounced from that party either, goin' through the tube :p

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3FFaBzgC7h8/UnV7M4cs3MI/AAAAAAAACD0/6fux6Vymo08/s1280/HPIM7366.JPG

Schrade

11-02-2013, 08:17 PM

Sink (loosely) the last 2 bolts, at the Alt-to-IH bracket, make sure everybody is happy (note to self - don't forget to lock down the Alt bolt)

and how 'bout that custom snapped off IAC locking tang (inset; upper right); should be good for a few HP???

I don't know WHAT to do about that... :confused:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-bK62wAYt1GI/UnWG9aSOSsI/AAAAAAAACEI/ysEo_W9OWu4/s1280/HPIM7369.JPG

Franke

11-02-2013, 08:44 PM

Schrade. Lookin' good so far. Cleaned up really nice. My IAC tang is gone too. Just curious. Are you going to test the fuel injectors before installation for leak down or sticking?

Schrade

11-02-2013, 10:02 PM

Schrade. Lookin' good so far. Cleaned up really nice. My IAC tang is gone too. Just curious. Are you going to test the fuel injectors before installation for leak down or sticking?

Absolutely static FP test ASAP. Just need to do it CORRECT...

Transplant surgery. I sure didn't know that rail / injector assemblies could NOT be inserted whole :o . When I tried it earlier, just one side, it almost went, except for #6 primary (secondary? like I said, I don't know much) (which was difficult also by itself, here).

Try to keep these guys outta' the dirt between the rail and the IH. As far as I'm concerned, they are STERILE...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-z-uKmD8Oiyk/UnWbexuRb2I/AAAAAAAACF0/cLYuJ4uFQPA/s1280/HPIM7370.JPG

clips in the oil drink

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-gWmKccDwod8/UnWaslwOKLI/AAAAAAAACFI/GUHreqiI4Xg/s1280/HPIM7373.JPG

one home, 7 to go.

This one fit snug. I gave it a roll, to make sure the O-ring was seated happy, and it is.
But, each secondary INJ did not sit as snug as each primary ???

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-wkKMgOQ74sM/UnWa8PNyLZI/AAAAAAAACFU/oUEgXUOBDKA/s1280/HPIM7371.JPG

P side; 8 home.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-gcrluZN6DqM/UnWbQMQUprI/AAAAAAAACFk/Ms8KnJKROKQ/s1280/HPIM7374.JPG

Schrade

11-02-2013, 10:14 PM

I actually did sink the injectors before torque-ing the IH bolts. Said it before; I'll say it again - I don't know this mill like some others of you here... wish more of ya' would chime in here before I screw up.

I did 5 'circuits' , torque-ing the bolts; center outward (DO THEY NEED RE-TORQUE-ING, AFTER X MILES???) .

And my torque wrench - ratchet-type, isn't calibrated. I can 'feel' better with the smaller ratchet... WHAT IS TORQUE SPEC???

Anyway,

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-jDND24L5dCw/UnWY5NsiMbI/AAAAAAAACEc/4GgxfzsjieI/s1280/IMG_5896.JPG

then set the clamp on the CC tube (in a different spot thAn before!!! )

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LJSJarRfReE/UnWZVPAOAzI/AAAAAAAACEo/NChnVdEDmDQ/s1280/IMG_5899.JPG

Grub break :mad: I hate breakin' for grub when wrench hackin'. :mad:

Franke

11-02-2013, 10:47 PM

Schrade

11-03-2013, 12:14 AM

Hose end after wire wheel (NOT over rail!!! )

look ok Cliff ? :D

Schrade

11-03-2013, 12:18 AM

Schrade, According to the LT5 service manual supplement the torque spec for the IH is 19 lb ft . Be sure to secure spark plug wire harness retainer with injector housing rear bolt on right and left sides. should be in your pics somewhere.
Coolant outlet pipes are 89 lb in.
Fuel rail to IH is 19 lb ft
Manual doesn't specify re-torque after installation so I would make sure you hit those torque numbers on the money with your torque wrench. At least 3 circuits around. There is no sequence in the manual as where to start but I do center out in a circle.

Note: these torque specs for the IH and fuel rail is different in the general engine section 6. That section indicates 20 lb ft instead of 19 lbft. Strange.

THanks for specs there Franke; too lazy to grease up the FSM pages ATM, with grease - grub grease! :p

Half a yard bird, snap beans and 'taters, down in 5 minutes!

I know that's just what ya' wanted to see...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-cRu9_8pK6EQ/UnWrAdyfVbI/AAAAAAAACG8/DUJ3T4xpoCI/s1280/1102132144.jpg

Moly grease, THIN film, both sides of coolant man gasket

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-PyeCt5IQuhk/UnW9Eo7cAnI/AAAAAAAACHg/e0VHIWOXKoE/s1280/IMG_5904.JPG

set loose

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DIYyDh82qKQ/UnW9s7pS1OI/AAAAAAAACHs/gfTHcnDX2hs/s1280/IMG_5906.JPG

torqued, with crossover elbow temp set

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_3JAtNSSURc/UnW_9t4pOrI/AAAAAAAACIM/k_C9coHepk0/s1280/HPIM7378.JPG

Schrade

11-03-2013, 12:27 AM

di-electric grease in the INJ connector sockets

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-gQwpPD7H3GM/UnXA00f_A-I/AAAAAAAACIc/F-LP181PlYU/s1280/HPIM7379.JPG

to hold the wayward gaskets in place!

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-hO7Mpnf5Fcs/UnXBea1JLDI/AAAAAAAACIs/whtg9AUDnK8/s1280/HPIM7380.JPG

ALMOST TIME TO SET THE CLOCK BACK, AND HACK FOR ANOTHER HOUR!

http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y435/100PercentVG/WORKSTATION/Animations/yippee-1_zps164d765d.gif

On second thought here.....................

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-fc/yawn.gif

Franke

11-03-2013, 12:42 AM

Schrade

11-03-2013, 01:01 AM

I noticed you have the injectors set in place in the IH. Assuming you will set the fuel rail down on to them... just to let you know that when you place the fuel rails on top of the injectors it may be necessary to move the injectors upward into the rail a little bit to get the clips to seat correctly. I discovered this the hard way.

Yeah - I guess it's gonna' be shootin' blind. I'd rather have dropped the rail / INJ assembly down whole, like LT1. Sure don't wanna' launch any clips under the starter (http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21522), at least not without the good luck that accompanied the feat, huh BF??? http://www.zr1.net/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

Didn't miss the SP wire loom clip... That was the purpose of dry-fit 'practice'.

No matter; I'll still miss something by the time it's time to pull the trigger. L98, I missed the Cold Start Injector seal; LT1, I missed the MAF connector; this mill; time will tell... :pray

If I'm lucky [cough cough], only the hesitation will remain. And maybe not ........
........................................

Bearly Flying

11-03-2013, 01:19 AM

Schrade; You got that right....

Got mine running tonite, just in time for a major snowfall..

Chickened out on going for a test drive.

But It sure runs nice!!!!!

Good Luck with yours.

Schrade

11-03-2013, 01:02 AM

Schrade; You got that right....

Got mine running tonite, just in time for a major snowfall..

Chickened out on going for a test drive.

But It sure runs nice!!!!!

Good Luck with yours.

Kiss of death; "Good luck".

Just kiddin there BF; sounds great! What all did you do there?

Schrade, I have a suggestion for ya. It may be better if you had a small insert inside that rubber pipe as it tends to get soft from the oil fumes and heat in back of the plenum. That way it won't collapse. I built a new pipe from soft copper and fittings and used it before I bought an original pipe from Jerrys. IMO that GM design was cheap and dirty.

I saw this post Franke as I was re-readin' the whole thread. WOW. What ignorance I showed early on there... :o

And I saw my clamp on the CC crossover tube, thinking it looks a little tight, then I saw your post. I don't know how I'd cut it and make a stint of any sort???

And Cliff; the PCV cap REALLY swelled in the Trans-X. It will get non-hardening RTV, on the valve sides of course, not IN the cap, so as not to block the valves...

Bearly Flying

11-03-2013, 01:29 AM

Schrade; Started out fixing the starter solenoid contacts, ($3.00 item)

But then, already got the Plenum and IH off, might as well get them ported..

The finish on the Plenum was showing its age, So Powder Coat looks good..

The injectors were still the stock injectors, so might as well while I'm there..

Started reading about the secondary throttle system... Hmmm good time as any....

Well I guess I have to reprogram to delete the secondaries, OK new chip with all the goodies..

Stainless bolts would look good on the new Powder Coat...

Thanks go to Lgaff and Jerry's Gaskets for their Great service and assistance.

Then Work got in the way, (I work away from home for about a month at a time)

So what started as a $3.00 repair in June, cost a bit more than expected and took a bit longer to accomplish.

But hearing it fire up tonite was worth it..

Paul Workman

11-03-2013, 04:08 AM

Schrade

11-03-2013, 03:47 PM

Back in, after a visit [buddy] in the hospital. The doc's can't communicate to the patient the difference between a viral and a bacterial infection. Or, "You have him on broad spectrum anti-biotics? Or narrow spectrum anti-biotic? Have you ID'ed the bacterial strain yet? " :rolleyes:

So finish with di-electric grease in the connector gaskets; sink the INJ-connector clips onto the connector

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-acYbr0G5MRA/UnakWTQdojI/AAAAAAAACJY/QNNemo52P_U/s1280/IMG_5910.JPG

Oiled Q-tip in the rail ports, then check for Q-tip 'fuzz'

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-eY-gp5-G6UM/UnamCUCg-nI/AAAAAAAACJo/XdAg3Ir-2oY/s1280/IMG_5914.JPG

Drop of oil on the O's - watch cap action draw it inside the ring ;)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jqbzleRwReA/Unamo8iBazI/AAAAAAAACJ0/n6OcJZLepMk/s1280/IMG_5917.JPG

Rock the rail, make sure the O's' sockets are aligned, and drive.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-0RBL92BMoEM/UnanUSiAC7I/AAAAAAAACKE/LOmIsaMzAL8/s1280/IMG_5923.JPG

And they snapped home ...

Schrade

11-03-2013, 04:03 PM

Rock the rails again for seating (they snapped down nice, but one O could have been binding); little grease on the threads, under the cap, rail hold-down bolts

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8g8hj-3ExWw/UnaouLm8VXI/AAAAAAAACKY/gVKj7Bc6qt0/s1280/IMG_5929.JPG

Torque 'em down

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4SD7geYP0ec/UnapWVx1RCI/AAAAAAAACKo/mROI_ea9e-g/s1280/IMG_5933.JPG

Snap on the INJ connectors, the vacuum connector down in the 'hole', and stand back and assess...

( and one day before pulling the trigger, I might actually get those CC hose clamps on )

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-anrs3kW_Ykg/Unaqe1wGMmI/AAAAAAAACK4/E_i1fisTEmA/s1280/HPIM7381.JPG

Schrade

11-03-2013, 06:25 PM

D side IH set

Wipe down head and IH mating surfaces, set the gasket, then the IH.

Match up the CC vent hose

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-FjswRQNlspM/UnbJQLD3AWI/AAAAAAAACLw/m73SghA92Gc/s1280/IMG_5936.JPG

One bolt dry, Phillips to align other end, raise and check

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-qqqL6BahcP8/UnbIo7p-1II/AAAAAAAACLk/IB8Aoy7nb_M/s1280/HPIM7384.JPG

All the while, I'm KNOWIN' I forgot something [s] ...

primary O's d SIDE for one...

and then a punch list

Found the grease tube cap after :30 search - started to sweat, thinking I did a BF, and let it bail under the starter; P SIDE INJ CLIPS!!! ; primary O's on the D side; forgot to put them in first :o , and the 2 connectors - forward end D side IH. WHAT ARE THEY??? CTS ONE???

Grease and sink the bolts

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-DJXrGqxXkjI/UnbMnHJnp6I/AAAAAAAACME/NppMg6KvjFg/s1280/IMG_5943.JPG

spark plug loom retainer

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-mhUdAqNPzKs/UnbM7R88leI/AAAAAAAACMQ/cfjGmxoqV7o/s1280/IMG_5947.JPG

Schrade

11-03-2013, 06:42 PM

INJ ret clips snapped into the G-spot x 8 ;)

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-PCrSYYxNbI0/UnbOBRYyjVI/AAAAAAAACMo/KQAmp2XSbCg/s1280/IMG_5957c.JPG

Di-electric grease in the 2 IH D side forward connectors

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-3hqj23x7UBs/UnbO0xYMN5I/AAAAAAAACM4/JtZkL1n7Fso/s1280/IMG_5963c.JPG

Set the primary O's with a drop of Trans-X in the groove

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-iTbaUHTDM5M/UnbP8zHm_1I/AAAAAAAACNg/KFNJRpMKUgQ/s1280/IMG_5971c.JPG

torque down the IH

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-evxOwYE8L8A/UnbQlcH2s4I/AAAAAAAACNs/3Hv_tiYhXj4/s1280/IMG_5976.JPG

Schrade

11-03-2013, 07:11 PM

Polyglass / Gloss Red mix on the TB; 1st coat cured.

recipe for oil base can =

2 part polyglass resin HALF STRENGTH MEK HARDENER
... 5 drops MEK (as opposed to 10) per ounce polyglass resin ; you can go 4 drops, but cure time seems exponential as you reduce MEK

2 parts paint thinner

5 parts paint

The thinner mix allows laying flat; no brush strokes or sags. Half strength hardener allows longer working time, AND harder finish (increased cure time however)

You HAVE to use a quality paintbru$h from arts & crafts store. Cheapies lose bristles...

and you absolutely HAVE to allow TOTAL cure before second coat - second coat too early will prevent 1st coat cure vapors from escaping, and will cause bubbling / poor bond. Some say this is what happens in Detroit with peeled paint...

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-VclVYcsecQs/UnbVbpC3YKI/AAAAAAAACOU/39OcIZpevX8/s1280/HPIM7389.JPG

Z06scentair

11-03-2013, 09:44 PM

Shrade great job.....I'm near Charlotte Nc and planning on pulling the plenum on my car to fix a vacuum, oil, and antifreeze leak! Care to join:-D

Dynomite

11-03-2013, 09:58 PM

Great job....and nice, clear, detailed large photos :thumbsup:

I am referencing several posts in -Solutions- (http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16778) if for no other reason (but there are many reasons)...the clarity of the photos.

Will be interesting how the paint scheme looks once put back together :handshak:

GOLDCYLON

11-04-2013, 09:11 AM

THanks for specs there Franke; too lazy to grease up the FSM pages ATM, with grease - grub grease! :p

Half a yard bird, snap beans and 'taters, down in 5 minutes!

I know that's just what ya' wanted to see...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-cRu9_8pK6EQ/UnWrAdyfVbI/AAAAAAAACG8/DUJ3T4xpoCI/s1280/1102132144.jpg

Moly grease, THIN film, both sides of coolant man gasket

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-PyeCt5IQuhk/UnW9Eo7cAnI/AAAAAAAACHg/e0VHIWOXKoE/s1280/IMG_5904.JPG

set loose

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DIYyDh82qKQ/UnW9s7pS1OI/AAAAAAAACHs/gfTHcnDX2hs/s1280/IMG_5906.JPG

torqued, with crossover elbow temp set

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_3JAtNSSURc/UnW_9t4pOrI/AAAAAAAACIM/k_C9coHepk0/s1280/HPIM7378.JPG

LOL this top end rebuild brought to you by our Sponsers BUD and BIRD!!!!!! ;)

Schrade

11-04-2013, 10:52 AM

Jerry got those gaskets here pronto - thanks to him for that! And to Bill [geezer] (Owner's Manual), Steve [WeGone] (Z parts schematic CD), and ? [BearlyFlying] (TB shaft butterfly screws), and THAT list goes on..............

Shrade great job.....I'm near Charlotte Nc and planning on pulling the plenum on my car to fix a vacuum, oil, and antifreeze leak! Care to join:-D

Thanks; but you sure you want MY hands on your car? I just screwed up 3 times last night - sunk the D side rail all nice and snug, WITHOUT the crossover in place :censored: . Then decided I'm not gonna' pull it til today, and decided to put in the D side coolant pipe in - dropping 2 clean greased bolts in the process :censored: . Re-clean THEM grrr. And then got it in, nice 'n torque'ed, withOUT polishing the end to bare metal :censored: .

Q: How many times can one screw up in an hour? :rolleyes: A: How many tasks am I doing in that hour!

Quittin' time.....

WARP TEN

11-04-2013, 12:18 PM

Jerry got those gaskets here pronto - thanks to him for that! And to Bill [geezer] (Owner's Manual), Steve [WeGone] (Z parts schematic CD), and ? [BearlyFlying] (TB shaft butterfly screws), and THAT list goes on..............

Thanks; but you sure you want MY hands on your car? I just screwed up 3 times last night - sunk the D side rail all nice and snug, WITHOUT the crossover in place :censored: . Then decided I'm not gonna' pull it til today, and decided to put in the D side coolant pipe in - dropping 2 clean greased bolts in the process :censored: . Re-clean THEM grrr. And then got it in, nice 'n torque'ed, withOUT polishing the end to bare metal :censored: .

Q: How many times can one screw up in an hour? :rolleyes: A: How many tasks am I doing in that hour!

Quittin' time.....

Sounds like a very familiar path, but I trust to ultimate sucess :cheers:--Bob

Schrade

11-04-2013, 01:54 PM

Sounds like a very familiar path, but I trust to ultimate sucess :cheers:--Bob

I'll take that in writing Sir - pen is on the windshield ;)

So let's try again; the RIGHT way.

Pull the D side rail; oil the rail crossover D side inlet / outlet

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ChUE0Gpa7-U/UnfbLLmKx1I/AAAAAAAACOs/JGqDY3gg73E/s1280/IMG_5985c.JPG

fit (I don't know how far I thought I was gonna' go, with that screw in place - where's Houdini when ya' need him? ) AND KEEP YER GRUBBY FINGERS OFF OF THE CLEAN RAIL / INJ PORTS!

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-XtQzkDB6DnU/Unfb8TRYnkI/AAAAAAAACO4/OjaHEPfwPZU/s1280/IMG_5988c.JPG

drive

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-X5ogyOw1l9w/UnfdKQd2VaI/AAAAAAAACPM/VIDzBpCGQ9g/s1280/IMG_5998c.JPG

clip

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kmFKAG7Vn-Q/UnfeBrrJTLI/AAAAAAAACPY/LulA_sahHIs/s1280/IMG_6009c.JPG

Schrade

11-04-2013, 02:32 PM

tighten clip

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-HhBEWTJMr3A/UnfewvnietI/AAAAAAAACPo/_QCrLcG1ZIQ/s1280/IMG_6013c.JPG

grease on rail holddown bolts

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-KDcOLLczku0/UnfgeIhWDTI/AAAAAAAACQA/15Pj9LhGGEY/s1280/IMG_6017c.JPG

Will the same type connector in here, fit inside the CC vent crossover tube, if I cut the tube where I put the clamp?

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-IhWDd4nUJSk/Unfn1cUwx7I/AAAAAAAACQ4/fFyK5-hGmJc/s1280/HPIM7394c.JPG

Franke

11-04-2013, 02:53 PM

I don't think so as the CC tube is larger in inside diameter I think. Jerry's has a new CC pipe however its a bit pricey. I was thinking that maybe you could wiggle a slightly smaller PVC pipe or something similar through the hose up to the defect and then clamp it. Maybe not but I tend to analyze why parts like that fail since there isn't a lot of pressure etc on them. Got to be oil and heat breakdown or friction on a adjacent part. High temp RTV might work too if allowed to setup properly.

Schrade

11-04-2013, 05:03 PM

TPS connector harness; does it go between 1' and 2' injectors #1? Or in front of #1 primary?

:confused:

I cannot find a snappic just yet here......

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QeAdKqh010o/UngLVfElkrI/AAAAAAAACRM/fPVy5EhnNtw/s1280/HPIM7399c.JPG

Dynomite

11-04-2013, 05:09 PM

My TPS connector harness goes in front of first injector over the top of the PCV connector (and charcoal connector on 90') to Plenum.

I use blue and red Loctite where you are using grease on many of those bolts :p

Franke

11-04-2013, 05:17 PM

Like Dyno says in front of first injector. Pic #4 page 1 and pic #11 especially. Looks like it was under the plenum vac tubes. Check those vacuum hoses to see if they are soft.

Schrade

11-04-2013, 06:03 PM

ed.: Cliff; Franke, you posted while I was looking at posted snappics, and Photo-Chopping BELOW... thanks.........................
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Great job....and nice, clear, detailed large photos :thumbsup:

I am referencing several posts in -Solutions- (http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16778) if for no other reason (but there are many reasons)...the clarity of the photos.

Will be interesting how the paint scheme looks once put back together :handshak:

Amazing thing; the cam still works after catchin' my mug in the lens!!!

Anyway, I found a snappic showing TPS harness in front of #1 1' INJ.

And I have a few vac tube routing / location errors here (at least) :o

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nVkhC4DLKLk/UngZFU5tXtI/AAAAAAAACRg/25O6adykRgw/s1280/HPIM7400.JPG

And THIS is NOT how to put together your Z. Some others of ya' there must be ROFL'ing...

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Ffc2g_ZpY2c/Unge8LyPQLI/AAAAAAAACSY/Vqw3N1A0bD0/s1280/HPIM7398c.JPG

If this mill doesn't detonate when I pull the trigger, I'll be surprised...

http://www.mphpa.org/classic/COLLECTIONS/CG-JPAP/Images-800x1200/CGP-JPAP-034.jpg

Schrade

11-04-2013, 06:44 PM

OK - I got the 'tie' part, but which one in the Red circle over / under???

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2870&stc=1&d=1381717981
http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2871&stc=1&d=1381719014

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-eukqar-ihDE/UngjCne6F5I/AAAAAAAACSo/agK3S7jE-sk/s1280/HPIM7401.JPG

Franke

11-04-2013, 06:50 PM

Someone has rerouted that line (lined one in pic) as it is supposed to be in front of the Pwr strg pump on the top of the clamp. Look at clamp and you will see nothing on top curved part. It follows the other vac line that goes to the front of the pump. Is that coolant pipe gasket on backwards? :)

Franke

11-04-2013, 08:37 PM

Yes someone rerouted that line before you got it. Mine does go in front of the PS pump on the top of the clamp with the larger one on the bottom of the clamp. I suspect that at some point that hose was a source of a vac leak so the cut/splice easiest route method was embraced. While it will work ok it isn't factory correct and there in is the reason for the zip tie. No codes and I don't believe the hesitation source.

Franke

11-05-2013, 12:53 AM

Schrade

11-05-2013, 01:31 AM

Schrade, What no spring ring clamps? :) Look at page 1 #4 which shows the coolant hoses before removal. Maybe that will help ya as I see some markings on the hoses. Also, with the ignition off both of the fuel pumps are routed to the test connector through the fuel pump relays.

THanks again Sir...

I had P side 'marked', but the Trans-X swelled out the scratched-in mark. Stuff is amazing.

Those spring clamps leave a stinger in yer paw when they unload from pliers OuCH! And no way to rock the crossover and seat the hoses with OEM clamps on...

FP test tomorrow. Have to pull the sec pump fuse I suppose. And still need to do resistance check for the SP wires. That's where this part all started. No clue what spec resistance is on SP wires...

THEN... pull plugs. Put the Shop-Vac on 3 and try to pull the moth, if still in there. And I'm thinking rotate the crank 90', and pull 4, then 90' more, 3, 90' more 6, etc, to pull any jam that drained into each hole. AND, if I can figure out which hole is on the squeeze for each 90' pull, get a static squeeze check at the same time...

Time to start really thinkin' here... but I got dual exhaust if my CPU overheats from thinkin' too hard http://www.h2g2.com/h2g2/skins/Alabaster/images/Smilies/f_steam.gif

Schrade

11-05-2013, 05:41 PM

Fuel pump test...

Pulling FP #2 fuse will isolate for pump #1 pressure...

BUT,

can I pull FP fuse #1, plug in FP #2 fuse, and isolate pump 2 pressure???

Schrade

11-05-2013, 06:16 PM

Voltage check.

Charging terminals in battery (with hose @ hand ;) )

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-eTWdpThSXik/UnlsRGpDlII/AAAAAAAACWI/DbOeJaYLb_U/s1280/HPIM7407.JPG

jumper

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-91DRqAMXYlY/UnltMoOmLLI/AAAAAAAACWg/l4Bq7wiwuNg/s1280/HPIM7409.JPG

didn't budge for 5 seconds, no noise, nothing - then, 5 seconds later, a light click, and

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-TCQ4U5e5S10/Unltjdm3dKI/AAAAAAAACWw/nxU-Ut92O8E/s1280/HPIM7410.JPG

Schrade

11-05-2013, 06:18 PM

Un-plug, and it started to fall. Post 3 minutes, it was under 20 PSI.

No fuel anywhere. Stuck my schnazz in the valley, in the rail connectors, no fuel smell.

http://www.zr1.net/forum/images/icons/icon5.gif

The lines were DRY - un-plugged both ends for 2 weeks. ALL air.

http://www.zr1.net/forum/images/icons/icon5.gif

Schrade

11-05-2013, 06:45 PM

It went to 0 post 15 minutes.

Second test pump #1; went to 52 again much quicker, and heard the pump.

10 seconds; power off. Drop rate much slower - post 3 minutes, it's steady at 24.

15 minutes post power down; still @ 20.

Test 3rd time shortly with stopwatch.....................

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Test 3:
Power off
0:15 - 44
0:30 - 40
0:45 - 39
1:00 - 37
2:00 - 34
5:00 - 28

Getting better each time.

Q: Where does the air go, that was in the line???

Does it get pushed to the tank? Does any remain in the INJ's, or rails, until it's run??????????????

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++

Should I test until I get no leakdown?

Or go ahead and test with both pumps?

OR,

Test pump 2 isolated?

Test 4; identical readings.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

So I held the guage pressure relief, and bled air, till it ran no air.

5th test; identical readings @ 15, 30, and 45.

If the primary pump has a check valve integrated (and it's blown), then another test WITH pump 2 + pump 1 should yield identical results, with the primary check valve still leaking.

[B]I had good static pressure before this plenum pull

So now, if pump 2 can be tested in isolation, I can find out if pump 1 has a bad check valve.

Hopefully, it does NOT, and one of the injectors is leaking PROBABLY because a pintle is jammed open. Pulling each spark plug and checking for fuel should confirm this.

Thoughts????????????????????

Hello?

Schrade

11-05-2013, 08:30 PM

Ok - I had (relatively sure hereof) a blocked OPEN check valve in the tank.

Test:

Both fuses in.

Power to test terminal.

Pinch feed line BEFORE rails inlet.

Power off test terminal. Pressure held @ 52.

Release pinch on rail feed inlet. Pressure dropped IMMEDIATELY ~12 to 40.*

Test again, NO PINCH, power off.

Pressure dropped VERY SLOWLY:
0:15 = 48
0:30 = 47
0:45 = 47
1:00 = 47
2:00 = 46
5:00 = 45

*This QUICK reverse flow MUST HAVE pushed SOMEthing [obstruction / sticking check valve] back OUT OF IN-TANK CHECK VALVE.

Could this be ANYthing else???????

Franke

11-05-2013, 09:26 PM

Schrade, I would repeat this test a little more. After assembly of plenum chart A-7 on page 6e3-a-29 may help you diagnose if this is a this fuel pressure problem. I'm sure you have or had air in the system so the screwy readings. May still have a little air in there yet. The fuel from the tank goes to the fuel rails first and then to the regulator and then back to the tank. There is further testing with caution on testing the regulator in this chart and return fuel line pinch. I really don't think you will have an issue if all the air is out.

Schrade

11-05-2013, 11:46 PM

This is the post I was referring to here Franke...

Give it a read through if ya' got a moment; and comment???

Ok - I had (relatively sure hereof) a blocked OPEN check valve in the tank.

Test:

Both fuses in.

Power to test terminal.

Pinch feed line BEFORE rails inlet.

Power off test terminal. Pressure held @ 52.

Release pinch on rail feed inlet. Pressure dropped IMMEDIATELY ~12 to 40.*

Test again, NO PINCH, then power off.

Pressure dropped VERY SLOWLY:
0:15 = 48
0:30 = 47
0:45 = 47
1:00 = 47
2:00 = 46
5:00 = 45

* This QUICK reverse flow MUST HAVE pushed SOMEthing back OUT OF IN-TANK CHECK VALVE.

OR

UN-stuck it, to free range of motion of the check valve...

Could this be ANYthing else???????

Bearly Flying

11-05-2013, 11:50 PM

Nice to know I'm not the only fumble fingered one on here.....

It's looking Great, Keep up the good work.

Franke

11-06-2013, 12:05 AM

I'm thinking more like your fuel supply was not able to function correctly with air in the system and by doing the pinch - release - re-pressure you purged the system and regulator of air. Based on the fact you had good pressure before disassembly it had to be something introduced afterward. Maybe I'm off on this thinking. Also, the fuel pumps feed do have a sock on them to prevent dirt introduction but I have seen the socks deteriorate over time on older cars.

Schrade

11-06-2013, 03:10 AM

Nice to know I'm not the only fumble fingered one on here.....

It's looking Great, Keep up the good work.

Thanks there BF; feelin' good about this, but still I have reservations about the 'hesitation', coming off idle.......................

Schrade

11-06-2013, 01:53 PM

New test; pump #2 fuse pulled:

power up = 52
0:15 = 47
0:30 = 46
0:45 = 46
1:00 = 46
2:00 = 45
5:00 = 44

second test, I pinched the feed line (I don't like the idea of 'pinch')...

then released, and re-tested

power up = 52
0:15 = 49
0:30 = 48

and it held 48 after 5 minutes

me diggin' that in a BIG way ;)

Schrade

11-06-2013, 03:44 PM

Anyone know if there's a spec thickness for heat sink paste?

Or if it's only for heat capacity, of the compound?

mike100

11-06-2013, 04:32 PM

Anyone know if there's a spec thickness for heat sink paste?

Or if it's only for heat capacity, of the compound?

There may be a spec, but most people apply it with a razor blade or sharp spatula edge etc. At my job, we make various high power inverters and the IGBT transistor and diode packages get the thermal paste applied through a silk screen to the copper heatsink. Use a razor blade edge- the extra just squeezes out of the edges anyhow.

Franke

11-06-2013, 04:45 PM

Mikes right but just for sake of a spec - info from the FSM indicates .25 grams in 4 places. (page 6e3-c4-9)

Z06scentair

11-06-2013, 11:27 PM

Thanks Mike...

Only had 1 syringe of CPU heatsink pasts; gotta' hit the 'Shack... :mad:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-TkWPNVh7c8A/UnqqqeuCXQI/AAAAAAAACeQ/d8WfCV8Oq-Y/s1280/HPIM7437.JPG

Great glad you posted that I was wondering about that white paste....guess I need to go get some as well.

mike100

11-06-2013, 11:27 PM

The secondary ports get dirty because they don't run all the time.

mike100

11-06-2013, 11:31 PM

I will get the source of the thermal compound I used. It comes in jars that could do dozens of devices. Been running it for a couple years with no problems.

Pretty much the same stuff they give you for GM HEI ignition modules for the distributors. I learned a good lesson once- don't use the paste and the car will run for about 2 hours before failure.

Dynomite

11-07-2013, 12:48 AM

Before you tighten down the Plenum (with Plenum tipped up in front) and ALL vacuum lines, and DIS module connections in place....check your vacuum systems.

With all vacuum lines connected, turn key on and listen for vacuum pump to shut off. If it does not shut off, start at the closest vacuum line to the vacuum pump disconnecting the line and holding your finger over the end. If the pump shuts off the leak is on other side of that. Go to next fitting and do the same until you are past the leak wherein the vacuum pump will NOT shut off. You have now located the leak.

Also check your HVAC and Cruize Control Vacuum System (check ALL connections). Also check your EVAP Purge system connections (charcoal canister which is under drivers side headlight on your 90'). That single small vacuum port under front of plenum facing rearward (90' only) is for the Evap Purge System. The second larger vacuum port on drivers side lower front of plenum is the main vacuum line for the Charcoal Canister. The second Vacuum port right next to that Charcoal Canister port is your PCV Vacuum port.

With the key on, ground the pink wire in the green connector (third from drivers side) on ECM. Use a small finishing nail stuck in alongside the wire connector with an alligator clip pigtail attached to the end for grounding. This will activate the Secondaries which you can watch with the plenum tipped up in front before you bolt it down. This after you are sure you have NO vacuum leaks in the Secondary System.

I promised GC I would not mention any modifications .....but you should eliminate TB coolant so you do not have to mess with coolant every time you remove the Plenum......DO NOT TELL GC I suggested this :D

Vacuum Systems 90' and 91' (Secondary and Cruize/HVAC) (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-2.html#post1581460752)

efnfast

11-07-2013, 08:19 AM

Anyone know if there's a spec thickness for heat sink paste?

Or if it's only for heat capacity, of the compound?

Schrade, where is this heat sink paste going to be applied? TIA - Steve

XfireZ51

11-07-2013, 09:33 AM

Schrade,

Just do about 4 dabs on the IM, then smear it over the mounting area. Just make sure it covers the entire area so there are no hotspots.

efnfast

11-07-2013, 09:49 AM

Dom, this is the thing bolted to the bottom of the plenum? I'm soon to change my plenum, this sounds important.

XfireZ51

11-07-2013, 10:01 AM

Dom, this is the thing bolted to the bottom of the plenum? I'm soon to change my plenum, this sounds important.

Yep, that's the Ignition Module. Has 4 connectors around the periphery.

efnfast

11-07-2013, 10:25 AM

Yep, that's the Ignition Module. Has 4 connectors around the periphery.

Where does one come by this stuff? It'll cook the IM without it huh? Thanks God for the forum.

XfireZ51

11-07-2013, 10:43 AM

Where does one come by this stuff? It'll cook the IM without it huh? Thanks God for the forum.

It's "unobtainium" that can be found at Radio Shack. Just ask for heat sink compound.

efnfast

11-07-2013, 10:51 AM

LOL, thanks Dominic.

Schrade

11-07-2013, 12:18 PM

LOL, thanks Dominic.
What Dominic said.

With CPU heatsinks, only thing to NOT do is apply it in a 'ring', 'cause you can get air trapped, and air holds heat. Think insulation.

I tried to put it only in the center, and press, to work it to the edges, but that took forever. Lifting it to check is not easy. And that's what made me put more down - too much perhaps. Probably why it says 'in 4 spots'. I don't know either what kind is best - Silver-based, Copper, Silicone...

If GM didn't have problems with the record-setting cars, there MIGHT be a little room for error. And maybe not....................................

Z06scentair

11-07-2013, 01:26 PM

I just went to autozone an purchased it in a small box with 2 small packets inside the box.

It took about 1.25 packets to coat the entire surface with a putty knife.

Paul Workman

11-07-2013, 05:29 PM

LOL, thanks Dominic.

A word of caution on the heat sink goop application:

It needs to coat 100%, as mentioned, but very thin - so thin that you can just see the aluminum through the grease.

AND! Be double damn sure you don't have anything like a grain of sand between the DIS module and the plenum; it is a killer, and the module is near unobtainable! In fact, unless there is some reason you must remove it...don't.

Just sayin...

Schrade

11-07-2013, 05:50 PM

To D side, to clean up a little before pulling the plugs (anybody NOT like A/C Delco 41-800 / 19250872) ?

Is there a better over-the-counter plug? I ran Split-Fires in all my fleet vehicles; don't know that they were any better...

Make some room:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-YlOtWujdlMY/UnwFQrrmZYI/AAAAAAAAChs/v3l6oWQcu4o/s1280/HPIM7450.JPG

What is this sensor under ECM (besides DIRTY)?

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rHQe128aJT8/UnwCy-aMG7I/AAAAAAAAChc/Mh7DcdxE_o0/s1280/HPIM7449.JPG

mike100

11-07-2013, 06:25 PM

Schrade

11-07-2013, 06:49 PM

That's the map sensor to detect the presence of vacuum that operates the secondary throttle plates. It sets a light if the vacuum isn't present due to a leak etc.

run the $2 ac-delco plugs that came with the car. They are so easy to change on this engine don't bother with double platinum or exotic heat ranges on a stock engine.

Thanks there Sir...

It would light a 61 code then???

The emblem was loose. What adhesive to stick it???

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-lAruDd2bOHg/UnwXXBUoqBI/AAAAAAAACiE/bbYZ-383xpk/s1280/HPIM7451.JPG

Cleanup is gettin' outta' hand. Those pimp-mobiles with $2k rims on the corners look great [not], when they're sittin' on the roadside broken. And I have 'hesitation' to keep in mind...

So it will be easier next week, being clean at least, when I have to do breakdown again to solve this gig.

Down in the corner

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-r4u-y26mO2c/UnwXveu7NKI/AAAAAAAACiU/D2SEmhOif2U/s1280/HPIM7452.JPG

Schrade

11-07-2013, 08:48 PM

Finish forward end; Shop-Vac to pull some loose bolt head jam

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_L3KiQ6XXBE/Unwy9fNbPGI/AAAAAAAACjY/foydLnWiX9I/s1280/HPIM7453.JPG

Wrap some steel wool around the A/C lines...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-w_hi8DYix4Q/UnwvcljLiyI/AAAAAAAACi0/n5Uo9e_K4b4/s1280/IMG_6078c.JPG

Is there some filter / membrane in this opening? It's some kind of spongy mass, and looks full of cheesy motor nasties... http://www.zr1.net/forum/images/icons/icon5.gif I was about to put the SV to the opening. Anyone?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-bOrHL9ev_OY/UnwxNQO539I/AAAAAAAACjI/DkoE_OsUKCE/s1280/HPIM7455.JPG

Next up; get the Campbell's Chunky-Style juice from the SP wells...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-VDMCylahxp8/Unwz1ZWx91I/AAAAAAAACjo/vc-L_hAaeq4/s1280/HPIM7458.JPG

Dynomite

11-07-2013, 08:53 PM

Schrade

11-07-2013, 08:53 PM

Dynomite

11-07-2013, 08:57 PM

More Gloss Red ?

Does anyone have painting / Powder coating on their aluminum piping? Like the CC vent pipes on back of the IH's? Or the vent pipes connected to the Cam Cover fronts? Or even the skinny coolant pipes that 'T' from the plenum???

Cliff? Got snappics of colored lines?

I just shine them up with steel wool since there are hoses attached.....but I also think they get powder coated with the Plenum or painted with the Plenum. Makes not much difference on those lines which ever is your preference.

Schrade

11-08-2013, 12:56 AM

Cam Cover Filter (http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20Web/products/cam%20cover%20filter.htm)

But....you have to remove Cam Covers to install the Cam Cover FIlters.

There is a wire clip that holds the Cam Cover Filters in place in their respective slot in the cam covers (inside the Cam Covers). The wire clip extends through two small holes in the slot sides to keep the filter positioned to the top of the Cam Cover.

I have removed Cam Covers and painted them with engine in car ;)

Good stuff there Cliff; I missed this before...

It is important to install the correct filter as a replacement. Material that is too loose will capture less oil vapor than necessary. Material that is too dense will cause crankcase pressurization. Excessive crankcase pressure will often cause oil to be ejected from the dipstick tube.

More on this later here...............

Dynomite

11-08-2013, 04:12 AM

Good stuff there Cliff; I missed this before...

More on this later here...............

PCV system (Need for Oil Catch Can) (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-2.html#post1581458205)

Removing Cam Cover and Camshaft Timing Inspection (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-4.html#post1581665190)

Cam Covers (Filters and Wear Strips) (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-5.html#post1581825192)

Schrade

11-08-2013, 12:31 PM

I'm not gonna' pull the cam covers. I'm in deep enough, and hardly knew what I was doing to start with. Really.

But the vent system has me intrigued. Something about all those vapors coming through that little filter membrane. I'm gonna' investigate routing them, joined, up front, to the K & N, to be the 'catch can', if possible...

Opinions hereof???

So if there was any question about the Red coolant manifolds being obnoxiously Red (never could decide about etching color), I answered THAT question with the brush last night.

yeah - there's a couple of glossy pipes in there SOMEwhere:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-scme8R6H4zk/Un0RemIXSQI/AAAAAAAACkU/FTdiNA5En8Q/s1280/HPIM7459.JPG

And I'm here ta' tell ya'; mixing the hardener / paint brew is gettin' old.......................

carter200

11-08-2013, 12:47 PM

[QUOTE=Schrade;187487]So if there was any question about the Red coolant manifolds being obnoxiously Red (never could decide about etching color), I answered THAT question with the brush last night.
QUOTE]

Your last email left the engraving to be painted in Yellow bowtie and black LT-5. Anything change since then............:dontknow:

Schrade

11-08-2013, 06:51 PM

A word of caution on the heat sink goop application:

It needs to coat 100%, as mentioned, but very thin - so thin that you can just see the aluminum through the grease.

AND! Be double damn sure you don't have anything like a grain of sand between the DIS module and the plenum; it is a killer, and the module is near unobtainable! In fact, unless there is some reason you must remove it...don't.

Just sayin...
Got it there Mr. W; trust that I work STERILE as possible... If a bolt goin' in the hole hits grit, it comes back out and it and the hole gets re-done...

So if there was any question about the Red coolant manifolds being obnoxiously Red (never could decide about etching color), I answered THAT question with the brush last night.
QUOTE]

Will be back in it in the AM here...

Your last email left the engraving to be painted in Yellow bowtie and black LT-5. Anything change since then............:dontknow:

Yellow bowtie with black LT 5, if you can do it there Carter; I just thought more about it, and never decided either way here...

Out of town now...................................

WHat adhesive is best for re-attaching the C4 emblem to the CC???

Z06scentair

11-08-2013, 10:57 PM

WVZR-1

11-08-2013, 11:08 PM

Man your doing a great job. Try some of that two part epoxy to glue that emblem back down. Read the labels on the epoxy at the local car parts store. Surely they have something that will bond plastic to lumineee:-D

No 2-part epoxy - you don't want to have to use a grinder or "crow-bar" for removal. Black RTV I would think will do well. Window-weld - maybe?

Z06scentair

11-08-2013, 11:23 PM

No 2-part epoxy - you don't want to have to use a grinder or "crow-bar" for removal. Black RTV I would think will do well. Window-weld - maybe?

Ok or that

carter200

11-09-2013, 12:13 AM

Yellow bowtie with black LT 5, if you can do it there Carter; I just thought more about it, and never decided either way here...

I can do that :dancing. When you can email me and we'll get-r-Dunn :handshak:

Schrade

11-09-2013, 03:35 PM

Anyone know off-hand the size of the crank pulley bolt head? And is it reverse-thread?

LGAFF

11-09-2013, 03:38 PM

Black RVT is all you need to lock the emblem down...my emblems are 2X the weight and never had an issue with RVT

Jagdpanzer

11-09-2013, 03:41 PM

21 mm, right hand thread

A26B

11-10-2013, 12:08 AM

You need to turn it over with the starter, 2~3 compression strokes. By the time you reset the wrench enough times to make a full 4 stroke cycle, the pressure is leaking off past the rings.

Re:

Serious Q now here; #4 was open. I saw the tape on top of the IH pucker on the PRIMARY, AND ALSO the tape puckered on the SECONDARY, JUST SLIGHTLY The 'pucker' is not visible in the above snappic here, since I opened the PRIMARY for solvent.

Not sure what you mean by "open" and by "pucker"

If you mean the intake valves were open on #4 cylinder and you were applying vacuum to the cylinder via the spark plug hole..... and...the tape sucked down (like a vacuum would)..... a lot on the primary & only a little on the secondary, It's probably because both intake valves are open and the secondary port throttle valve is closed.

Schrade

11-10-2013, 02:06 AM

You need to turn it over with the starter, 2~3 compression strokes. By the time you reset the wrench enough times to make a full 4 stroke cycle, the pressure is leaking off past the rings.

Re:

Not sure what you mean by "open" and by "pucker"

If you mean the intake valves were open on #4 cylinder and you were applying vacuum to the cylinder via the spark plug hole..... and...the tape sucked down (like a vacuum would)..... a lot on the primary & only a little on the secondary, It's probably because both intake valves are open and the secondary port throttle valve is closed.

Thanks there Sir; that explains BOTH Q;s...

Franke

11-10-2013, 11:40 AM

Schrade, You might also want to make sure you have a good charge on the battery to do the compression test on all cylinders. Take the tape off the intake ports so that you don't suck any tape into the cylinders.
Like Jerry says 2-3 compression strokes per cylinder should give a good indication of cylinder balance. I go 3- 4 strokes to make sure I've reached max pressure. Watch each stroke to see what pressure you get and compare each cylinder. For example: 1st stroke 50lbs, second stroke 100lbs, 3rd stroke 130lbs etc. Some manuals say that there should be no more than 10% diff between highest and lowest final cylinder readings.

Franke

11-10-2013, 02:19 PM

Emissions / coolant piping paint cured, as well as the plenum coolant 'T'..

I thought it strange that the PCV cross-over tube didn't have too much support. I didn't notice before, that one of PO's had hacked off the mount brackets from both CC pipe elbows. It had to be dis-assembled ANOTHER time, because the bracket remnant wasn't still bolted on when I dis-assembled.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-C6RU3I6RVSE/Un_IEliqKnI/AAAAAAAACoc/oxzdNi86gWY/s1280/HPIM7475.JPG

Some type of zip tie support will attach to the fuel rail cross-over, I suppose...

You could fashion a metal strap to go around the pipe to attach to the plenum bolt. My car is missing those attachment points from the aluminum pipes as well. Seems that they were somewhat flimsy and required care in removal.

efnfast

11-10-2013, 05:36 PM

Nice right up Schrade. Much braver soul than I tearing into it like this.

efnfast

11-10-2013, 08:14 PM

There is a fine line between bravery and stupidity. So far, so good on your part.

Franke

11-10-2013, 10:36 PM

Maybe fishing with a magnet could help?

Paul Workman

11-11-2013, 08:26 AM

But now, a setback.

The socket popped off of the socket driver, while tightening the CC cross-over pipe clamp, between the fuel rail inlet / return lines. First time, it hit the floor. SECOND time, it didn't. I cannot find it anywhere. http://www.rogueburners.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/smiley_cry.gif It was BELOW the IH port, so that's a good thing...................

Had to laugh!;) But I lost a 1/4" drive ratchet handle...exactly doing what you were doing. It NEVER hit the floor, and I spent a couple hours looking for the damn thing and never found it! SO! If you find your socket, see if my ratchet handle is there too! :sign10:

Schrade

11-11-2013, 10:27 PM

FP test; I blew something at #8, or at rail cross-over, P side. I heard the air right away, and let off the jumper, then saw some drops - not enough to see exactly where, but enough to see tomorrow's starting point... :neutral:

Inside work now; carve up C4 / ZR1 decal for TB extension...

And bury under some poly...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/--GcIFKKD_14/UoKzMrXxPgI/AAAAAAAACuc/8P4tK-rE_sw/s1280/HPIM7495.JPG

mike100

11-12-2013, 09:18 AM

You should do a separate post on how to make those DIY clear decals.

Schrade

11-12-2013, 11:18 PM

Add to the list of How-NOT-To's

After re-assembly of the P side rail LAST night, I did the FP test, and failed. I heard the air blowing, and let off the FP jumper.

Today, I found out why

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MbFBeJkrVqo/UoLslK0A_FI/AAAAAAAACuw/f_tF9S4YOGQ/s1280/HPIM7496.JPG

When I sank the rail, I sheared off part of the O ring, just as clean and neat... That piece is probably under the starter. Guess where it's gonna' stay :p

When I broke it down, to find the wayward socket, the gasoline that drained from the INJ port, out of the rail, rinsed off the oil, and the port dried out. It HAS to be clean, AND OILED, as Jerry was saying. It was clean alright... :-x

I had O's from LT1 top end re-work, and replaced it. WITH oil.

FP test result - tested with primary FP only, was identical to earlier FP test. The secondary FP, when plugged in, forced the air out (((not done yet; it was low 30's wind chill. If I'd had a wooden stick in my ace, I coulda' been a popsicle http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/saisons/hiver/glace.gif )))

Franke

11-13-2013, 12:40 AM

Schrade, make sure that new O ring is Viton for ethanol fuel. In the pic it looks like a different color from the others and I was wondering if is was Viton or BUNA.

Schrade

11-13-2013, 04:24 PM

Still working dry-fit to anticipate problems...

Between which 2 injectors does this vacuum hose go, that comes into the plenum P side center...

I have it where I found it, but it ain't 'sittin' exactly happy where it is...

Help? Again???

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-zWi9rpqj3O4/UoPfOfxB2uI/AAAAAAAACvE/eXoXg12LSNs/s1280/HPIM7501.JPG

Franke

11-13-2013, 07:02 PM

Schrade, looks about right ... not sure why its being difficult. Perhaps its stuck under the plenum. Check post # 37 to see if any help.

Schrade

11-13-2013, 09:10 PM

Where's Cliff here - is there a sequence / write-up for vac test with plenum dry - fit, with all electrical connections? Is it in FSM?

Schrade, make sure that new O ring is Viton for ethanol fuel. In the pic it looks like a different color from the others and I was wondering if is was Viton or BUNA.
The one in the snappic ON THE INJ is the original one - sheared off. Looks different because it's dry - reason it sheared off too.

Don't know the make of the LT1 kit from which it came...

Schrade, looks about right ... not sure why its being difficult. Perhaps its stuck under the plenum. Check post # 37 to see if any help.
I had it mis-routed - post 37 DOES actually show it between 1' and 2' INJ's...

Dynomite

11-13-2013, 09:24 PM

Where's Cliff here - is there a sequence / write-up for vac test with plenum dry - fit, with all electrical connections? Is it in FSM?
Post #267 a bit before you were ready :D

Before you tighten down the Plenum (with Plenum tipped up in front) and ALL vacuum lines, and DIS module connections in place....check your vacuum systems.

With all vacuum lines connected, turn key on and listen for vacuum pump to shut off. If it does not shut off, start at the closest vacuum line to the vacuum pump disconnecting the line and holding your finger over the end. If the pump shuts off the leak is on other side of that. Go to next fitting and do the same until you are past the leak wherein the vacuum pump will NOT shut off. You have now located the leak.

Also check your HVAC and Cruize Control Vacuum System (check ALL connections). Also check your EVAP Purge system connections (charcoal canister which is under drivers side headlight on your 90'). That single small vacuum port under front of plenum facing rearward (90' only) is for the Evap Purge System. The second larger vacuum port on drivers side lower front of plenum is the main vacuum line for the Charcoal Canister. The second Vacuum port right next to that Charcoal Canister port is your PCV Vacuum port.

With the key on, ground the pink wire in the green connector (third from drivers side) on ECM. Use a small finishing nail stuck in alongside the wire connector with an alligator clip pigtail attached to the end for grounding. This will activate the Secondaries which you can watch with the plenum tipped up in front before you bolt it down. This after you are sure you have NO vacuum leaks in the Secondary System.

I promised GC I would not mention any modifications .....but you should eliminate TB coolant so you do not have to mess with coolant every time you remove the Plenum......DO NOT TELL GC I suggested this :D

Vacuum Systems 90' and 91' (Secondary and Cruize/HVAC) (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-2.html#post1581460752)

Schrade

11-14-2013, 12:01 AM

Nano-surgery.

There was a tiny bit of the screw sticking out of the front side, but not enough to get Vise-Grips on it.

So hello Dremel. I got a grinding bit centered in the backside, so I should be able to get enough bored out without touching the threads. Getting the screw remnants out will be tricky, so I can use the screws that BF sent...

Cross yer fingers (and cross yer eyes, teeth, cross yer hair, piggies... :pray )

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-V_kmwbpK62g/UoRJ_YRTTbI/AAAAAAAACvY/Iw3GUHlSSVU/s1280/HPIM7502.JPG

Schrade

11-14-2013, 02:50 AM

3 hours, 5 Dremel bits ground to nubs.

Then I put on the Dremel cutting wheel, and cut a slot in the remnant on the front. Small screwdriver, and had it out in 5 minutes.

http://castletv.net/wp-content/forumuploads/yazz/2013/07/faint-1.gif

Shaft threads are spared. Shaft is still SNUG in the shaft bore (won't suck air).

Dynomite

11-14-2013, 03:02 AM

I remember seeing it there Cliff - too lazy to go through all the pages backwards there... (plus it reminds me of some of my ignorance on this mill http://www.pistonsforum.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/dizzy.gif )

That's gonna' take a while to do right.

I've done backprobes on ECM with paperclips

That was from H41 diagnostic - INCREDIBLE - but a good read-thru'.... (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-tech-performance/2069247-merged-fresh-opti-pull-pics-and-ignition-stutter-code-crackers-needed.html)

I was in the middle of it when I got banned from CF - continued on some other vette boards

Just GOTTA' have pinout ID for all 4 ECM harnesses...

I do not even recognize that ECM...My ECM has the four plugs in line and is black :D

I grounded the Secondary switch with a finishing nail along side the connector wire going into the plug without unplugging any of the four connectors :confused:

It only took me a few seconds to check the secondaries. Actually I had my buddy watch the secondary canisters through a couple runners of the Plenum each side with my remote wireless camera probe as I grounded the pin. He could tell they were not only operating but operating smoothly each time I grounded the pin on the ECM plug. We could also hear the vacuum pump kick on after a cycle to replenish the vacuum lost in the operation of the canisters as I recall ;)

Anyone can do this inspection/test without removing the Plenum. See Verifying Seocndary Operation with Plenum in Place by Marc Haibeck (http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20Web/articles/sec%20throttle%20test.htm)

WVZR-1

11-14-2013, 04:43 AM

The PCM in the image is a '94 - '95 MY only reprogrammable original to the LT1

Schrade

11-14-2013, 06:03 PM

Just about ready for a vacuum test...

But a question here (imagine that - I have a question http://www.zr1.net/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif ) : instead of putting the plenum down for the vac test, why not remove the [not yet] un-heat sink pasted DIS from underneath the plenum, plug it in alone, withOUT the plenum, and plug in the other peripherals of course, and do vac test withOUT the plenum in place? You DO need to be able to work the vac tubes, if you do have a missed / broken line...

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4bqUS3cec8w/UoVHD0qwmqI/AAAAAAAACvs/QJAsGwQ2s-4/s1280/HPIM7504.JPG

WVZR-1

11-14-2013, 06:21 PM

In your last image in post #334 you show a correct ECM but in your post #331 you've got a PCM from an LT1 in the image - care to explain? I didn't duplicate the images because of the size!

*** Never mind it's got an LT1 engine in the image also!!!

Schrade

11-14-2013, 07:17 PM

The PCM in the image is a '94 - '95 MY only reprogrammable original to the LT1

Correct there Dave - you know your vette mills :thumbsup: ; the old snappic was a '94 I did top end housecleaning a few years ago - just posted it to show ECM / PCM backprobe.

================================================== =============================

But now on vac test - everything plugged in dry, turned the key on, both fuel pump fuses pulled, and the secondary vacuum pump didn't come on.

With all vacuum lines connected, turn key on and listen for vacuum pump to shut off. If it does not shut off, start at the closest vacuum line to the vacuum pump disconnecting the line and holding your finger over the end. If the pump shuts off the leak is on other side of that. Go to next fitting and do the same until you are past the leak wherein the vacuum pump will NOT shut off. You have now located the leak.

Which connector did I miss here?

I still have some vac lines un-hooked as well - any of them necessary before sec vac pump trips on?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8_agp_fWokI/UoVfXhdvG8I/AAAAAAAACwQ/osf6DJutstk/s1280/HPIM7505.JPG

mike100

11-14-2013, 08:51 PM

the big tube is for the brake booster line and the small one I think feeds the input to the FPR.

Franke

11-14-2013, 09:02 PM

Schrade

11-15-2013, 09:45 AM

The sec vac pump should turn on when the key is placed in the run position unless the switch inside the vac pump senses greater than 12" of vacuum which is not possible with every thing disconnected. There is an inline fuse of 10 amps for the vac pump. Check at the pump to see if wiring is disconnected or the fuse is blown. Check for voltage there.

It came to me last night - an hour after sackin' out - layin' there, thinkin' on it!!!

I did NOT plug in the forward 2 connectors on the DIS module. :o

Let's try it again, the RIGHT way...

XfireZ51

11-15-2013, 09:57 AM

It came to me last night - an hour after sackin' out - layin' there, thinkin' on it!!!

I did NOT plug in the forward 2 connectors on the DIS module. :o

Let's try it again, the RIGHT way...

Minor detail. NOT!

Schrade

11-15-2013, 12:18 PM

Still thinkin' on this throttle hesitation here...

If [since] 80% throttle opening comes from ONLY [ < 20%, actually] physical Range Of Motion OF THROTTLE LINKAGE ...

http://www.zr1.net/forum/images/icons/icon5.gif

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-DZsOtyn21JI/UnKnV8QA79I/AAAAAAAAB88/rsDHNy4BE1Y/s1280/HPIM7334c.JPG

then EVERY operational parameter has almost 0 tolerance for deviation, from 0% Throttle Opening, to 80% Throttle Opening, when 80% throttle is reached in such a short span.

There HAS TO be some 'buffer' integrated into all parameters' sync'ing properly; otherwise, every 1 year-old LT5 with even minor hardware degradation is gonna' have some problem...

such as 'Off-Idle Sag'

unless the potentiometer in the TPS has some buffer mechanism built-in, such as logarithmic resistance, and not linear (never mind just now that FSM says that the TPS Voltage response is linear..................... )

This make any sense to anyone?

Paul Workman

11-15-2013, 12:23 PM

Minor detail. NOT!

Yeeeaaaah.... It might cause a "hesitation"..:confused:...:censored:

Schrade

11-15-2013, 01:53 PM

O...K...

So plug in the 2 forward DIS module connectors, and turn the key.

No sec vac pump. And why do I have fuel pressure, with both FP fuses pulled?

No, I don't have both FP fuses pulled - #2 FP fuse is in, on the UNDERdash Aux fuse block - the 10 Amp fuse on the end of the block, and the 10 Amp fuse on the OTHER end of Aux fuse block, for 'CRNK-A/B' is pulled OUT. :censored:

Switch them, turn the key, and no sec vac pump. :censored:

:confused:

:censored:

Back to the FSM drawing board...

Schrade

11-15-2013, 02:40 PM

2' vac pump diags.

Test the ground at the 2' vac pump fuse (please be bad)

nope

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-VJcT94Vqqxc/UoZpigNlN0I/AAAAAAAACwk/pSeF49nZbjo/s1280/HPIM7509.JPG

Fine ( MF'er :censored: )

Power comin' in?

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6euCLzBG9B4/UoZqJnwpgGI/AAAAAAAACww/TWDTanGw0jg/s1280/HPIM7510.JPG

Franke

11-15-2013, 05:02 PM

OK it looks like you have the voltage to the fuse on the orange wire... The blue wire should go to the vac pump. Maybe jumper across the terminals to see if the pump runs?

Schrade

11-15-2013, 07:07 PM

OK it looks like you have the voltage to the fuse on the orange wire... The blue wire should go to the vac pump. Maybe jumper across the terminals to see if the pump runs?

I thought about that, but the pump ran fine before, and the battery was un-plugged from before wrench 1 turned a bolt.

So test for a good ground, and good power.

Then what I saw comin' IN bothered me.

Isn't 11.77 V reflective of a problem? Cause it sure wouldn't drive the pump...

I went to FSM, and schematic shows 12V from IG Switch, to splice S239 near Cruise Control Module, P side UNDERdash, and from there, to

1) 2' vac pump, through fuse,
2) Power Window Circuit Breaker @ Main Fuse Panel, and
3) A/C Fuse.

My plan was to test for identical 11.77 V @ '2', and '3', and then work back to IG Switch OUTput, and see if it ALSO was out-putting 11.77 V

But the best laid plans of Schrade & men oft go awry. And this job is in regression, with a decay rate seeming exponential in proportion.

The IAC connector gasket fell off. I unbolted the TB to look, and now 1 of the nuts from the TB linkage / cam shield fell off. It's not in the induction port, but now that I thought longer on the IAC gasket, there is the most remote of possibilities that IT found it's way into #2.

Franke

11-15-2013, 07:40 PM

I'm thinkin that your dropping about 1/2 volt or so between the battery and the fuse connection through the ign switch and wiring for the vac pump. Possibly a slightly resistive connection but I would make sure that your battery is fully charged since you were doing fuel pump testing and they draw at least 4 amps each I think. Also, since that vac pump ckt is separate from the DIS module I don't see why the pump shouldn't run. In theory if you put 12V on the dk blue lead to the vac pump with the fuse connector off she should run.

Good job finding those 2 parts. There are so many nooks and crannies on these motors that people have lost small animals and ratchets and.... and...

Franke

11-15-2013, 11:09 PM

Look at page 8A-22-10 in electrical diagnosis supplement for a close up schematic of the vac pump ckt. It shows the whole ckt run.

Franke

11-16-2013, 01:22 AM

Bummer. Wonder if these can be disassembled for repair? Y-ME on the boards here is disassembling (2) Z's over in Florida. He probably has a couple of used ones.

Dynomite

11-16-2013, 02:29 AM

CLIFF!!! Got snappics of this pump broken down?

Best place to buy one? Anyone holding here??????????

Vacuum pump vendor (http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?p=82942")

I guess it is possible to fix a vacuum pump Tom fixed his vacuum pump with WD40 (http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?p=75381)

I do not have any photos of a vacuum pump taken apart :p

Used Ebay 91' vacuum pump (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Corvette-ZR-1-Vacuum-pump-part-no-10098493-/301010250165?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item46159be9b5&vxp=mtr)

The connectors on the vacuum pump apparently are different between a 90' and 91'-95'
I guess you CAN change the connector

Vacuum Pump Pigtail connector for 1990 application from Jerry (http://jerrysgaskets.com/store2/root/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11&products_id=617)

Schrade

11-16-2013, 03:13 AM

Any one here given this any thought?

Still thinkin' on this throttle hesitation here...

If [since] 80% throttle opening comes from ONLY [ < 20%, actually] physical Range Of Motion OF THROTTLE LINKAGE ...

then

http://www.zr1.net/forum/images/icons/icon5.gif

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-DZsOtyn21JI/UnKnV8QA79I/AAAAAAAAB88/rsDHNy4BE1Y/s1280/HPIM7334c.JPG

then

EVERY operational parameter has almost 0 tolerance for deviation, from 0% Throttle Opening, to 80% Throttle Opening, considering that 80% throttle is reached in such a short span.

There HAS TO be some 'buffer' integrated into all parameters' synchronizing properly; otherwise, every 1 year-old LT5 with even minor hardware degradation is gonna' have some problem...

such as 'Off-Idle Sag'

unless the potentiometer in the TPS has some buffer mechanism built-in, such as logarithmic resistance, and not linear (never mind just now that FSM says that the TPS Voltage response is linear..................... )

This make any sense to anyone?