1990 Throttle hesistation

[Schrade]

ed.:
I flunked DataMaster (rookie), so the plenum pull began @ post 66 (http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21259&page=7)

Thread is broken off to Plenum pull / Top End Resto here (http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21439)


I think I got some DataMaster log data saved here now; where does the scan get saved to by default?

I still have DM open, if it makes a difference here.

I want to play it back - and I'm getting a prompt to open the saved data stream from 1 of 4 different folders...

Help?

[Franke]

Schrade, It may be in the My documents\TTS\GM \Datamaster-OBD1\DM_xx...etc. Its a .uni file and can be found in windows search.
I named a folder for each test I ran. For example... File name - replaced O2 sensors date/time/ etc.

[XfireZ51]

Is there a Scan folder in DATAMASTER?

[Franke]

Datamaster v400 gives 2 file playback options called Datamaster (.uni) or diacom file (.gdf) which is saved by default in the Datamaster program. By default to - My Documents\TTS\GM\Datamaster-OBD1\DM-xx folder. A file that is just recorded can be named anything you wish but is saved within that Datamaster program folder. These files are then available for playback in Datamaster and can be located in Windows on the main hard drive.

[9T1 Red ZR1]

Hi, when I use Datamaster, I click on "File" in the top left corner. When the box opens up, the recordings you made are at the bottom of the box starting with "C:\... Click on the one you want to view. I hope this helps.

[Schrade]

ed.:
I found 2 .uni files
AutoLog_001.uni, and AutoLog_002.uni
Are these sample files? Or are these my own recordings?

[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[
Alright; here's a text file... (still looking for the datastream (.uni) file)

Does this give anything of value?

Franke - the saved stream got the default name...



************ START OF LOG ITEM ************
DataMaster Z1 Version 4.0.1
Logfile Data: Friday, Sep 27 2013 03:54:31 PM
Timestamp = 0.000 Sec

Disable COM requested from monitor mode:
Running ALDL Status checks...
Data from monitoring 8192 ALDL for 2000 mS or first 300 Bytes
Byte Count: 258
10 59 0A 98 00 00 F5 40 55 6B 41 61 00 0F 00 98
86 01 A6 C2 54 7A 00 89 71 F0 56 F1 C9 10 59 0A
98 00 00 F5 40 55 6B 41 61 00 0F 00 98 86 01 A6
C2 54 7A 00 89 71 10 59 0A 98 00 00 F5 40 55 6B
41 61 00 0F 00 98 86 01 A6 C2 54 7A 00 89 71 10
59 0A 98 00 00 F5 40 55 6B 41 61 00 0F 00 98 86
01 A6 C2 54 7A 00 89 71 10 59 0A 98 00 00 F5 40
55 6B 41 61 00 0F 00 98 86 01 A6 C2 54 7A 00 89
71 10 59 0A 98 00 00 F5 40 55 6B 41 61 00 0F 00
98 86 01 A6 C2 54 7A 00 89 71 F0 56 F1 C9 10 59
0A 98 00 00 F5 40 55 6B 41 61 00 0F 00 98 86 01
A6 C2 54 7A 00 89 71 10 59 0A 98 00 00 F5 40 55
6B 41 61 00 0F 00 98 86 01 A6 C2 54 7A 00 89 71
10 59 0A 98 00 00 F5 40 55 6B 41 61 00 0F 00 98
86 01 A6 C2 54 7A 00 89 71 10 59 0A 98 00 00 F5
40 55 6B 41 61 00 0F 00 98 86 01 A6 C2 54 7A 00
89 71
AnalyzeMessage: status = 4, CCM only detected
Disable ALDL Comm Successful, beginning data collection!


************ START OF LOG ITEM ************
DataMaster Z1 Version 4.0.1
Logfile Data: Friday, Sep 27 2013 03:54:39 PM
Timestamp = 8.801 Sec

Disable COM requested from monitor mode:
ALDL Link Monitor bypassed, previously detected PCM/CCM assumed
MonData having problems linking, Disable Com Status = -4, Recycle Count = 1





edited for interruptions in DataMaster stream...

[Franke]

Schrade, Looks like continuous linkup failures. Also looks like you were trying to view data in monitor mode. That's ok but no recorded data available in monitor mode. Lets do a bit of review.
1. You are using DM32xZ1 for 90-92 Y car correct?
2. Options-advanced-usb interface in use must be selected on the serial data acquisition form
3. USB driver latency setting is set to 1 ms.
4. Some corvettes including our ZR-1's LT5's have difficulty linking up. (as you know already) To get past this issue the ALDL link timing must be adjusted.
Bring up the serial data acquisition form and from menu select options/advanced/serial com timing. This brings up serial com timing form and allows you to adjust ALDL link timing. By default it is set to 0 delay in ms. TTS shows the optimum values to be between 190 and 205. To establish optimum setting it is necessary to find lowest and highest delay setting that works and then set in between. Start about 195 and work your way up or down to find the limits. Each time you make a change press ok button. then retry the connection by pressing start or single button. Repeat until upper and lower limits are found then set to mid value. Usually this is very narrow range of about 4-5. I had to do this to get my com port to link and stay linked.
5. If the CCM is not working correctly or the car is modified it may be necessary to disable ALDL handshake and/or options- advanced- disable dash refresh in order to link.
Hope this helps. A great help to you would be the TTS ops manual which you would have to download and print.

[Schrade]

OK - set the ALDL timing link to 190, and NO PCM sync in the next recording. Set it back to '0', and re-established data collection, same intermittency.

Now trying other values from '0' - 190...

150 - no good.
125 - no good.
100 - no good.
50 - no good.
25 - no good; still no PCM sync...

Back to '0' allows data collection, with intermittent 'Lost Com'.

Does the frequency of the 'Lost Com', give a clue as to what OTHER setting needs changing?

[Franke]

A note in chapter 7 says TTS has found that MOST USB adapters fail to operate correctly for recording ALDL data. For this reason, it is recommended that the TTS USB serial port adapter be used as it is extensively tested with all windows versions. Did you buy their USB adapter? Did you download and use the TTS USB driver from their web site for what ever version of windows you use? Also, make sure the windows com port configuration is such as (I think you are using com port 4) 9600 Bits/sec, 8 data bits, parity= none, stop bits=1, flow control = none. Then to Advanced setting tab - BM options latency timer to 1 ms which allows the interface to link up more consistently.
You could also try another com port in your laptop to see if it works better such as 5 on up to 12.

[Franke]

Schrade, here is what my adapter looks like. It has a pin jumper on the USB plug which I think is mentioned in the Datamaster manual.

[9T1 Red ZR1]

To get mine to work, I left the timing link at 0, that was the only place it would try to work. In the Serial Data Acquisition box, I had to set the Sample Control Center to the slowest recording speed to get it to work.

[Schrade]

To get mine to work, I left the timing link at 0, that was the only place it would try to work. In the Serial Data Acquisition box, I had to set the Sample Control Center to the slowest recording speed to get it to work.


Got it Red; thanks...

Anyone know if the logfile streams can be uploaded here? Or to YouTube?

[Franke]

Good deal. Is the datastream steady with no linkup failures?

[Schrade]

Good deal. Is the datastream steady with no linkup failures?

Nope - haven't found the setting yet for the interruption in the stream there Franke - will try the COM Port latency setting in Windows 8 tomorrow (not in Device Manager like earlier Windows).

Could be also the Sample Data Acquisition Speed Setting as Red mentioned...

OR

electrical interference in wiring caused by the A4 Controller Module.

Sundown here at the coast was playtime this evening ;)

[Schrade]

Alright - time to re-hash DM here...

I got some recordings saved, and 'playable' here. Can recordings be uploaded to the boards here? Or to YouTube?

Still got the intermittent 'Lost com with ECM; re-cycling'. Ideas on that one?

Smooth idle. At 1.6 % throttle opening, I'm getting a regular lope - like a vacuum leak. I don't believe it's a vac leak; I think it's electrical (DM manual says that the lost com could be electrical interference / voltage irregularity[???], which I think might also be causing the lope.

:confused:

Throttle % bounces from 1.6% to 2.4%. Above that, back to smooth as silk again.

No codes, C or H. Closed Loop.


Do I need to try more values between 190 and 150? Or between 25, and 0?
OK - set the ALDL timing link to 190, and NO PCM sync in the next recording. Set it back to '0', and re-established data collection, same intermittency.

Now trying other values from '0' - 190...

150 - no good.
125 - no good.
100 - no good.
50 - no good.
25 - no good; still no PCM sync...

Back to '0' allows data collection, with intermittent 'Lost Com'.

Does the frequency of the 'Lost Com', give a clue as to what OTHER setting needs changing?


Only other COM port available is COM 3
A note in chapter 7 says TTS has found that MOST USB adapters fail to operate correctly for recording ALDL data. For this reason, it is recommended that the TTS USB serial port adapter be used as it is extensively tested with all windows versions. Did you buy their USB adapter? Did you download and use the TTS USB driver from their web site for what ever version of windows you use? Also, make sure the windows com port configuration is such as (I think you are using com port 4) 9600 Bits/sec, 8 data bits, parity= none, stop bits=1, flow control = none. Then to Advanced setting tab - BM options latency timer to 1 ms which allows the interface to link up more consistently.
You could also try another com port in your laptop to see if it works better such as 5 on up to 12.

[Schrade]

Ok - reduced the Sample Control Center speed, and got a CONTINUOUS stream - IN MONITOR MODE ONLY!!!:mad:

Now I can start a new recording. Tells me to select a file. Before, it was starting a new one by default, with 'AutoLog Session' as the name.

WTH is with this?

[Schrade]

ed.:
solved that one; 'AutolLogging Activated' turned itself off. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:
-------------------------------------------------------------------


How can I 'Create' a new .UNI file? Why do I have to, when it did it before by default when I opened it?

The 'Enter Comments Below' box has nothing in it now. I tried typing in (SCC_2.5_recSpd), for the new recording name, then I click 'Start', but it says 'Select a file'.

Even restarted the program, and the computer, but it's not starting up with 'AutoLog Session' x now...


and I'm down to 7 recordings left, before I pay. (already got THAT problem solved, but can't do it ATM)

[Franke]

Schrade, you have to designate a file to save the data to when starting datamaster. I named my files according to what repairs I just preformed such as new O2 sensors.uni. When I got mine working I didn't have any drop outs at all during the entire run times. I used com port 3. Try changing the ALDL link timing. See if that helps steady link up. Also try transmit and receive timeout to 180 ms instead of default 120.
You could be right about the interference inside the vehicle. At least you've made some progress in getting a data stream to read.

[Schrade]

Schrade, you have to designate a file to save the data to when starting datamaster. I named my files according to what repairs I just preformed such as new O2 sensors.uni. When I got mine working I didn't have any drop outs at all during the entire run times. I used com port 3. Try changing the ALDL link timing. See if that helps steady link up. Also try transmit and receive timeout to 180 ms instead of default 120.
You could be right about the interference inside the vehicle. At least you've made some progress in getting a data stream to read.

I got it there Franke; 'AutoLogging Activated' had turned itself off.

This mother is makin' my veins pop out in a big way here...

[Franke]

To create a file...select file-open. This will bring up a file selection box. Browse to where you want to store your data file and enter your new file name such as (test 1 time and date). That will be where the data run is saved and will have a .uni extension for playback.

[Schrade]

OK - now - FINALLY - got a continuous stream, no interruptions, at 2.5 recordings / second.

How do I upload a stream for everyone to look over here now?

[Franke]

Big veins = more blood flow = more energy = more fun right.:)

[Franke]

Select post reply - then attach file (paperclip) in menu at top of screen.

[Schrade]

Schrade, you have to designate a file to save the data to when starting datamaster. I named my files according to what repairs I just preformed such as new O2 sensors.uni. When I got mine working I didn't have any drop outs at all during the entire run times. I used com port 3. Try changing the ALDL link timing. See if that helps steady link up. Also try transmit and receive timeout to 180 ms instead of default 120.
You could be right about the interference inside the vehicle. At least you've made some progress in getting a data stream to read.

Before 'AutoLogging Activated' turned itself off, it was creating a file by default. I added comments - a number; to distinguish from the last recording. It wasn't doing this with AUTOLOG Act turned off. And it wouldn't say to check that it was turned on either.

I swear musta' been MicroSoft people wrote this program...:rolleyes:

So now, I can just upload a .UNI here? Only people with DM can download and play it?


Breakin' for a plate of grub and an Ale or 2 right now here...

[Schrade]

Select post reply - then attach file (paperclip) in menu at top of screen.

Got it; thanks! :thumbsup:

Fork in one paw, mouse in another - need to pull a shoe to grab a cold lager

http://jimwwsmith.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/01129190.jpg?w=115

Jeez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[XfireZ51]

OK - now - FINALLY - got a continuous stream, no interruptions, at 2.5 recordings / second.

How do I upload a stream for everyone to look over here now?

Is this 2.5 frames/sec? That's slow. Are you using correct Baud Rate? 8192?

Also, I think your TPS% is too high for idle. What is the voltage showing as?
Should be between .53-.57v. What are IAC counts?

DM should have an Export file capability. Just create a .txt file that is comma delimited. Then you can use Excel to open it.

[Franke]

Anyone with datamaster can read your file but Datamaster can export the data to a csv. file which then can be converted with programs such as MS Excel spreadsheet etc. Select file - export engine data -

As xfire says...:)

[Franke]

Schrade, my tests show 0% TPS / .57v at idle 700RPM and 0 IAC Position.

[Schrade]

Those numbers were just ABOVE idle - not idle. THat's where the 'sag' seems to manifest.

Don't know if I got the baud rate setting correct or not. Is that a DM setting?

And how do I attach a .UNI file? It's not showing as a valid upload format... - only .zip (compressed format?)...

[Franke]

Smooth idle. At 1.6 % throttle opening, I'm getting a regular lope - like a vacuum leak. I don't believe it's a vac leak; I think it's electrical (DM manual says that the lost com could be electrical interference / voltage irregularity[???], which I think might also be causing the lope.

Throttle % bounces from 1.6% to 2.4%. Above that, back to smooth as silk again.



Got it. ok so its acting just like an off idle vacuum leak but you're thinking electrical? I don't have any thoughts on that one so have to think on that a bit.

Yep. can't up load uni file for sure as its not available. A compressed zip file will work. Baud rate is a laptop thing.

[Schrade]

Zipped file...

[Schrade]

Got it. ok so its acting just like an off idle vacuum leak but you're thinking electrical? I don't have any thoughts on that one so have to think on that a bit.

Yep. can't up load uni file for sure as its not available. A compressed zip file will work. Baud rate is a laptop thing.

No - probably NOT electrical, I don't think, since now, the interruption in the stream is solved.

But a vacuum leak couldn't manifest ONLY just after throttle begins to open up :confused:

Still don't know for sure tho'.

[Franke]

Zip file doesn't have the .uni attachment in it especially since its only 4.7kb. I see the datamaster program page.

[Schrade]

Windows. Damn Windows. Doesn't know how to compress a .UNI file, since it's not native.

How did I upload the other data in post 6?

I'm copying the Windows 8 install on that computer now from a backup disk, in Linux live environment, so I can't access it ATM...................

[Schrade]

Ok - some progress here...

there wasn't enough columns for all parameters - should I delete any, and re-post these???

Count 0 - 50


Rec Num Frame Time Time Stamp 2nd Inj Fuel Cool Temp DRP mS EGR DC Eng/Veh Spd Eprom ID Fuel Pump Volts Fuel Trim Cell TPS Volts IAC Pos Idle RPM TPS % Inj A FPW Inj B FPW Inj BPW D-TPS Inj BPW Left Inj BPW Right Inj DC Left Inj DC Right Left O2 mV LO2 CCNT LTerm-LC LTerm-LP LTerm-RC LTerm-RP MAP PT Vacuum Right O2 mV RO2 CCNT RPM
Time Stamp mS °C mS Percent Ratio INT Volts Number Volts Counts RPM Percent mS mS mS mS mS Percent Percent mV Counts Counts Percent Counts Percent KPa Volts mV Counts RPM
1 6:32:40 PM 0.000 1 98.0 23.23 0.0 255.0 03921 12.2 16 0.53 10 663 0.0 0.0 32.7 3.60 4.78 4.39 2.6 2.4 720 13 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 36.6 0.5 787 7 650
2 6:32:40 PM 0.415 1 98.0 22.71 0.0 255.0 03921 12.2 16 0.53 10 663 0.0 0.0 32.7 3.57 4.75 4.30 2.6 2.3 716 13 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 36.2 0.5 782 7 650
3 6:32:40 PM 0.816 1 98.0 24.02 0.0 255.0 03921 12.2 16 0.53 10 663 0.0 0.0 32.7 3.63 4.75 4.33 2.5 2.3 707 13 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 36.6 0.5 778 7 625
4 6:32:41 PM 1.216 1 98.0 24.23 0.0 255.0 03921 12.2 16 0.55 10 663 0.0 0.0 32.7 3.66 4.78 4.36 2.5 2.3 698 13 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 36.6 0.5 769 7 625
5 6:32:41 PM 1.631 1 98.0 23.62 0.0 255.0 03921 12.2 16 0.55 10 663 0.0 0.0 32.7 3.66 4.75 4.33 2.5 2.3 676 13 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 36.9 0.5 743 7 625
6 6:32:42 PM 2.158 1 98.0 23.70 0.0 255.0 03921 12.2 16 0.55 10 663 0.0 0.0 32.7 3.66 4.72 4.32 2.5 2.2 614 13 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 36.9 0.5 747 7 625
7 6:32:42 PM 2.560 1 98.0 23.99 0.0 255.0 03921 12.2 16 0.55 10 663 0.0 0.0 32.7 3.71 4.76 4.30 2.5 2.2 411 13 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 37.3 0.5 716 7 625
8 6:32:43 PM 2.975 1 98.0 23.58 0.0 255.0 03921 12.2 16 0.57 10 663 0.0 0.0 32.7 3.72 4.90 4.30 2.6 2.2 292 14 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 37.7 0.5 663 7 625
9 6:32:43 PM 3.375 1 98.0 23.56 0.0 255.0 03921 12.2 16 0.57 10 663 0.4 0.0 32.7 3.77 4.94 4.32 2.6 2.2 239 14 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 38.0 0.5 575 7 625
10 6:32:43 PM 3.790 1 98.0 23.01 0.0 255.0 03921 12.2 16 0.57 10 663 0.4 0.0 32.7 3.75 4.93 4.30 2.7 2.3 208 14 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 38.4 0.5 517 7 650
11 6:32:44 PM 4.430 1 98.0 22.65 0.0 255.0 03921 12.3 16 0.57 10 663 0.4 0.0 32.7 3.69 4.87 4.26 2.6 2.3 172 14 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 37.7 0.5 442 7 650
12 6:32:44 PM 4.831 1 98.0 23.03 0.0 255.0 03921 12.3 16 0.57 10 663 0.4 0.0 32.7 3.69 4.87 4.26 2.6 2.3 159 14 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 38.0 0.5 411 7 650
13 6:32:45 PM 5.231 1 98.0 22.63 0.0 255.0 03921 12.3 16 0.57 10 663 0.4 0.0 33.0 3.69 4.93 4.26 2.7 2.3 141 14 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 37.7 0.5 380 7 650
14 6:32:45 PM 5.647 1 98.0 22.10 0.0 255.0 03921 12.3 16 0.57 10 663 0.4 0.0 33.0 3.69 4.93 4.26 2.8 2.4 133 14 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 38.0 0.5 358 7 675
15 6:32:46 PM 6.047 1 98.0 22.52 0.0 255.0 03921 12.3 16 0.57 10 663 0.4 0.0 33.0 3.74 5.00 4.39 2.8 2.5 119 14 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 38.0 0.5 340 10 675
16 6:32:46 PM 6.701 1 98.0 22.13 0.0 255.0 03921 12.3 16 0.57 10 663 0.4 0.0 33.0 3.63 4.97 4.35 2.8 2.4 115 14 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 37.7 0.5 309 10 675
17 6:32:47 PM 7.103 1 98.0 22.23 0.0 255.0 03921 12.3 16 0.59 10 663 1.2 0.0 33.0 3.68 5.00 4.35 2.8 2.4 115 14 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 37.7 0.5 296 10 675
18 6:32:47 PM 7.501 1 98.0 22.58 0.0 255.0 03921 12.4 16 0.59 10 663 1.2 0.0 33.0 3.75 5.08 4.41 2.9 2.5 111 14 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 38.4 0.5 283 10 675
19 6:32:47 PM 7.917 1 98.0 21.82 0.0 255.0 03921 12.4 16 0.59 10 663 1.2 0.0 33.0 3.81 5.16 4.47 2.9 2.5 106 14 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 39.1 0.5 270 10 675
20 6:32:48 PM 8.317 1 98.0 21.53 0.0 255.0 03921 12.4 16 0.59 10 663 1.2 0.0 33.0 3.75 5.14 4.44 3.0 2.6 97 14 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 39.1 0.5 256 10 700
21 6:32:49 PM 8.974 1 98.0 20.92 0.0 255.0 03921 12.4 16 0.59 10 663 1.2 0.0 33.0 3.74 5.16 4.44 3.1 2.7 93 14 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 38.8 0.5 234 10 725
22 6:32:49 PM 9.374 1 98.0 21.30 0.0 255.0 03921 12.5 16 0.59 10 663 1.2 0.0 33.0 3.74 5.19 4.44 3.0 2.6 102 14 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 38.4 0.5 225 10 700
23 6:32:49 PM 9.773 1 98.0 20.80 0.0 255.0 03921 12.5 16 0.59 10 663 1.2 0.0 33.0 3.74 5.22 4.47 3.2 2.7 296 14 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 38.8 0.5 217 10 725
24 6:32:50 PM 10.190 1 98.0 21.18 0.0 255.0 03921 12.6 16 0.59 10 663 1.2 0.0 33.0 3.66 4.96 4.41 2.9 2.6 636 15 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 38.0 0.5 203 10 700
25 6:32:50 PM 10.605 1 98.0 21.93 0.0 255.0 03921 12.5 16 0.59 10 663 1.2 0.0 33.0 3.75 5.08 4.52 2.9 2.5 513 15 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 38.8 0.5 199 10 675
26 6:32:51 PM 11.244 1 98.0 20.49 0.0 255.0 03921 12.6 16 0.59 15 663 1.6 0.0 33.0 3.75 5.23 4.52 3.2 2.7 190 16 136 +6.3 123 -3.9 38.8 0.5 181 10 725
27 6:32:51 PM 11.644 1 98.0 19.50 0.0 255.0 03921 12.7 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 33.0 3.78 5.25 4.61 3.4 3.0 155 16 137 +7.0 123 -3.9 39.1 0.5 172 10 775
28 6:32:52 PM 12.060 1 98.0 18.83 0.0 255.0 03921 12.8 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 33.0 3.69 5.11 4.47 3.4 3.0 137 16 137 +7.0 123 -3.9 38.4 0.5 164 10 800
29 6:32:52 PM 12.460 1 98.0 17.27 0.0 255.0 03921 13.1 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 33.0 3.65 5.04 4.41 3.7 3.2 150 16 137 +7.0 123 -3.9 36.6 0.5 159 10 875
30 6:32:52 PM 12.860 1 98.0 16.94 0.0 255.0 03921 13.2 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.33 4.55 4.09 3.3 3.0 694 17 137 +7.0 123 -3.9 34.7 0.5 150 10 875
31 6:32:53 PM 13.516 1 98.0 18.80 0.0 255.0 03921 13.2 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.48 4.72 4.27 3.1 2.8 561 17 137 +7.0 123 -3.9 36.2 0.5 159 10 800
32 6:32:53 PM 13.932 1 98.0 18.69 0.0 255.0 03921 13.2 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 33.0 3.57 5.00 4.43 3.3 3.0 234 18 138 +7.8 123 -3.9 37.3 0.5 150 10 800
33 6:32:54 PM 14.332 1 98.0 17.41 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 33.0 3.65 5.05 4.49 3.6 3.2 168 18 138 +7.8 123 -3.9 36.6 0.5 141 10 850
34 6:32:54 PM 14.731 1 98.0 16.51 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.36 4.61 4.20 3.5 3.1 645 19 138 +7.8 123 -3.9 34.7 0.5 141 10 900
35 6:32:55 PM 15.131 1 98.0 17.24 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.33 4.58 4.03 3.3 2.9 685 19 138 +7.8 123 -3.9 34.3 0.5 283 12 875
36 6:32:55 PM 15.771 1 98.0 17.93 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.45 4.67 4.26 3.2 2.9 460 19 138 +7.8 123 -3.9 35.8 0.5 256 16 825
37 6:32:56 PM 16.171 1 98.0 17.67 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 33.0 3.59 4.99 4.43 3.5 3.1 208 20 139 +8.6 123 -3.9 36.2 0.5 243 16 850
38 6:32:56 PM 16.572 1 98.0 16.60 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 33.0 3.36 4.61 4.20 3.5 3.1 380 21 139 +8.6 123 -3.9 35.1 0.5 234 16 900
39 6:32:57 PM 16.987 1 98.0 17.21 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.33 4.58 4.12 3.3 3.0 685 21 139 +8.6 124 -3.1 34.7 0.5 442 17 875
40 6:32:57 PM 17.388 1 98.0 17.56 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.39 4.59 4.18 3.3 3.0 597 21 139 +8.6 124 -3.1 35.1 0.5 349 17 850
41 6:32:58 PM 18.042 1 98.0 17.01 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 33.0 3.49 4.88 4.39 3.6 3.2 194 22 140 +9.4 124 -3.1 35.4 0.5 265 18 875
42 6:32:58 PM 18.443 1 98.0 16.37 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.33 4.56 4.17 3.5 3.2 676 23 140 +9.4 125 -2.3 34.0 0.5 438 19 925
43 6:32:58 PM 18.844 1 98.0 16.54 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.27 4.44 4.10 3.3 3.1 667 23 140 +9.4 125 -2.3 34.0 0.5 601 19 900
44 6:32:59 PM 19.258 1 98.0 17.05 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.36 4.56 4.18 3.3 3.0 592 23 140 +9.4 125 -2.3 34.3 0.5 482 19 875
45 6:32:59 PM 19.659 1 98.0 17.34 0.0 255.0 03921 13.2 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 33.0 3.39 4.70 4.21 3.4 3.1 248 24 140 +9.4 125 -2.3 35.1 0.5 393 19 875
46 6:33:00 PM 20.315 1 98.0 16.62 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.36 4.64 4.32 3.5 3.2 146 24 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 35.1 0.5 301 22 900
47 6:33:00 PM 20.730 1 98.0 16.22 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.27 4.53 4.12 3.5 3.2 128 24 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 34.0 0.5 385 23 925
48 6:33:01 PM 21.114 1 98.0 16.65 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.27 4.56 4.12 3.4 3.1 115 24 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 33.6 0.5 557 23 900
49 6:33:01 PM 21.530 1 98.0 16.63 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.33 4.65 4.15 3.5 3.1 194 24 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 34.3 0.5 420 23 900
50 6:33:01 PM 21.945 1 98.0 16.79 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.36 4.56 4.18 3.4 3.1 601 25 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 34.3 0.5 362 23 900

[Schrade]

Counts 51 - 100

Rec Num Frame Time Time Stamp 2nd Inj Fuel Cool Temp DRP mS EGR DC Eng/Veh Spd Eprom ID Fuel Pump Volts Fuel Trim Cell TPS Volts IAC Pos Idle RPM TPS % Inj A FPW Inj B FPW Inj BPW D-TPS Inj BPW Left Inj BPW Right Inj DC Left Inj DC Right Left O2 mV LO2 CCNT LTerm-LC LTerm-LP LTerm-RC LTerm-RP MAP PT Vacuum Right O2 mV RO2 CCNT RPM
Time Stamp mS °C mS Percent Ratio INT Volts Number Volts Counts RPM Percent mS mS mS mS mS Percent Percent mV Counts Counts Percent Counts Percent KPa Volts mV Counts RPM
50 6:33:01 PM 21.945 1 98.0 16.79 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.36 4.56 4.18 3.4 3.1 601 25 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 34.3 0.5 362 23 900
51 6:33:02 PM 22.569 1 98.0 16.51 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.33 4.62 4.23 3.5 3.2 199 26 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 34.3 0.5 301 26 900
52 6:33:03 PM 22.969 1 98.0 16.27 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.27 4.56 4.06 3.5 3.1 146 26 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 34.0 0.5 398 29 925
53 6:33:03 PM 23.386 1 98.0 16.68 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.27 4.44 4.06 3.3 3.0 583 27 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 34.3 0.5 371 29 900
54 6:33:03 PM 23.786 1 98.0 16.80 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.36 4.56 4.26 3.4 3.2 398 27 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 34.7 0.5 283 30 900
55 6:33:04 PM 24.184 1 98.0 16.54 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.36 4.67 4.26 3.5 3.2 164 28 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 34.7 0.5 292 32 900
56 6:33:04 PM 24.841 1 98.0 16.69 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.33 4.52 4.12 3.4 3.1 526 29 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 34.3 0.5 420 35 900
57 6:33:05 PM 25.241 1 98.0 16.95 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.36 4.47 4.10 3.3 3.0 380 29 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 34.7 0.5 336 36 875
58 6:33:05 PM 25.640 1 98.0 17.29 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.49 4.61 4.23 3.4 3.1 146 30 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 35.4 0.5 265 36 875
59 6:33:06 PM 26.040 1 98.0 16.72 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.51 4.64 4.24 3.5 3.2 102 30 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 35.4 0.5 221 36 900
60 6:33:06 PM 26.457 1 98.0 16.48 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.61 21 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.39 4.35 4.21 3.3 3.2 80 30 132 +3.1 128 0.0 35.1 0.5 190 36 900
61 6:33:07 PM 27.112 1 98.0 15.86 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.61 21 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.51 4.55 4.38 3.5 3.4 53 30 132 +3.1 128 0.0 35.4 0.5 155 36 925
62 6:33:07 PM 27.512 1 97.3 14.59 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.36 4.41 3.74 3.8 3.2 44 30 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 33.6 0.5 402 37 1025
63 6:33:07 PM 27.928 1 97.3 15.61 0.0 255.0 03921 13.2 1 0.63 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.17 4.26 3.56 3.4 2.8 44 30 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 32.9 0.5 455 37 950
64 6:33:08 PM 28.327 1 97.3 17.63 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.63 21 663 2.4 0.0 33.0 3.49 4.90 4.50 3.5 3.2 31 30 132 +3.1 128 0.0 35.4 0.5 292 38 850
65 6:33:08 PM 28.728 1 97.3 15.20 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.63 21 663 1.6 0.0 33.0 3.51 4.84 4.44 3.9 3.6 31 30 132 +3.1 128 0.0 35.8 0.5 221 38 975
66 6:33:09 PM 29.384 1 97.3 13.58 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 21 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.43 4.41 3.92 4.0 3.6 694 31 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 31.0 0.5 667 39 1100
67 6:33:09 PM 29.784 1 97.3 14.04 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 20 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.20 4.06 3.63 3.6 3.3 725 31 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 31.0 0.5 743 39 1075
68 6:33:10 PM 30.200 1 97.3 15.34 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.63 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.08 3.89 3.48 3.2 2.8 734 31 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 31.8 0.5 707 39 975
69 6:33:10 PM 30.599 1 97.3 18.33 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.63 21 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.48 4.58 4.24 3.1 2.9 407 31 132 +3.1 128 0.0 35.1 0.5 393 39 825
70 6:33:11 PM 30.999 1 97.3 16.83 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.63 21 663 1.6 0.3 33.0 4.00 5.29 4.85 4.0 3.6 141 32 132 +3.1 128 0.0 37.7 0.5 278 40 900
71 6:33:11 PM 31.655 1 97.3 13.31 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 21 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.51 4.41 3.91 4.1 3.7 667 33 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 31.8 0.5 694 41 1125
72 6:33:12 PM 32.054 1 97.3 13.92 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.28 4.07 3.57 3.6 3.2 712 33 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 30.6 0.5 698 41 1075
73 6:33:12 PM 32.455 1 97.3 15.21 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.05 3.78 3.34 3.1 2.7 690 33 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 31.8 0.5 681 41 975
74 6:33:12 PM 32.871 1 97.3 19.35 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.63 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.48 4.75 4.03 3.1 2.6 234 34 132 +3.1 128 0.0 35.8 0.5 345 41 775
75 6:33:13 PM 33.270 1 97.3 16.57 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.63 21 663 1.6 0.0 33.0 4.14 5.36 4.90 4.0 3.7 115 34 132 +3.1 128 0.0 38.4 0.5 252 42 900
76 6:33:13 PM 33.910 1 97.3 13.00 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 21 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.46 4.30 3.78 4.1 3.6 672 35 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 31.4 0.5 420 45 1150
77 6:33:14 PM 34.311 1 97.3 13.60 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.30 4.03 3.54 3.7 3.2 720 35 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 29.9 0.5 667 45 1100
78 6:33:14 PM 34.726 1 97.3 15.23 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.63 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.05 3.71 3.28 3.0 2.7 676 35 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 31.4 0.5 530 45 975
79 6:33:15 PM 35.126 1 97.3 19.44 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.63 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.60 4.79 4.36 3.1 2.8 194 36 132 +3.1 128 0.0 36.9 0.5 292 46 775
80 6:33:15 PM 35.542 1 97.3 16.62 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.63 21 663 1.6 0.3 33.0 4.20 5.42 4.82 4.1 3.6 97 36 132 +3.1 128 0.0 38.8 0.5 212 46 900
81 6:33:16 PM 36.181 1 97.3 12.67 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 21 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.37 4.17 3.65 4.1 3.6 672 37 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 30.6 0.5 354 47 1175
82 6:33:16 PM 36.580 1 97.3 13.81 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.17 3.88 3.37 3.5 3.0 712 37 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 29.9 0.5 628 47 1075
83 6:33:17 PM 36.981 1 97.3 15.81 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.63 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.14 3.77 3.60 3.0 2.9 623 37 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 32.1 0.5 336 47 950
84 6:33:17 PM 37.382 1 97.3 18.85 0.0 255.0 03921 13.2 0 0.63 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.69 4.87 4.46 3.2 3.0 146 38 132 +3.1 128 0.0 38.0 0.5 230 48 800
85 6:33:17 PM 37.797 1 97.3 15.09 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.63 21 663 1.6 0.3 33.0 3.77 5.02 4.56 4.2 3.8 80 38 132 +3.1 128 0.0 37.3 0.5 164 48 1000
86 6:33:18 PM 38.454 1 97.3 12.44 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 21 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.17 3.97 3.49 4.0 3.5 712 39 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 29.5 0.5 645 51 1200
87 6:33:18 PM 38.852 1 97.3 13.61 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.27 3.91 3.45 3.6 3.2 712 39 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 29.5 0.5 636 51 1100
88 6:33:19 PM 39.252 1 97.3 15.92 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.63 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.08 3.69 3.54 2.9 2.8 614 39 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 32.1 0.5 309 52 950
89 6:33:19 PM 39.653 1 97.3 18.31 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.63 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.75 4.97 4.52 3.4 3.1 150 40 132 +3.1 128 0.0 37.3 0.5 212 52 825
90 6:33:20 PM 40.069 1 97.3 14.68 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.63 21 663 2.4 0.0 33.0 3.72 4.70 4.14 4.0 3.5 75 40 132 +3.1 128 0.0 36.2 0.5 155 52 1025
91 6:33:20 PM 40.707 1 97.3 12.39 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.63 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.25 3.94 3.48 3.9 3.5 676 41 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 29.9 0.5 557 53 1200
92 6:33:21 PM 41.107 1 97.3 13.15 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 21 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.16 3.94 3.49 3.8 3.3 694 41 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 28.8 0.5 712 53 1150
93 6:33:21 PM 41.525 1 97.3 14.82 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.63 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 2.99 3.54 3.19 3.0 2.7 654 41 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 31.0 0.5 438 53 1000
94 6:33:21 PM 41.924 1 97.3 18.91 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.63 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.54 4.67 4.30 3.1 2.9 181 42 132 +3.1 128 0.0 35.8 0.5 261 54 800
95 6:33:22 PM 42.323 1 97.3 16.02 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.63 21 663 2.4 0.0 33.0 3.91 5.10 4.67 3.9 3.6 88 42 132 +3.1 128 0.0 37.7 0.5 168 54 925
96 6:33:23 PM 42.980 1 97.3 12.42 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.63 21 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.33 4.12 3.65 4.1 3.6 636 43 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 30.3 0.5 186 54 1200
97 6:33:23 PM 43.379 1 97.3 13.25 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 21 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.25 4.03 3.60 3.8 3.4 707 43 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 29.2 0.5 720 55 1125
98 6:33:23 PM 43.780 1 97.3 14.74 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.14 3.71 3.33 3.2 2.8 628 43 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 31.0 0.5 460 55 1025
99 6:33:24 PM 44.180 1 97.3 18.59 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.63 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.48 4.61 4.27 3.1 2.8 150 44 132 +3.1 128 0.0 35.4 0.5 252 56 800

[Schrade]

and counts 101 - 145

Rec Num Frame Time Time Stamp 2nd Inj Fuel Cool Temp DRP mS EGR DC Eng/Veh Spd Eprom ID Fuel Pump Volts Fuel Trim Cell TPS Volts IAC Pos Idle RPM TPS % Inj A FPW Inj B FPW Inj BPW D-TPS Inj BPW Left Inj BPW Right Inj DC Left Inj DC Right Left O2 mV LO2 CCNT LTerm-LC LTerm-LP LTerm-RC LTerm-RP MAP PT Vacuum Right O2 mV RO2 CCNT RPM
Time Stamp mS °C mS Percent Ratio INT Volts Number Volts Counts RPM Percent mS mS mS mS mS Percent Percent mV Counts Counts Percent Counts Percent KPa Volts mV Counts RPM
100 6:33:24 PM 44.595 1 97.3 15.63 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.63 21 663 2.4 0.0 33.0 3.85 5.04 4.64 4.0 3.7 80 44 132 +3.1 128 0.0 36.9 0.5 159 56 950
101 6:33:25 PM 45.251 1 97.3 12.50 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 21 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.33 4.09 3.66 4.1 3.7 645 45 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 29.9 0.5 623 59 1200
102 6:33:25 PM 45.652 1 97.3 13.38 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.25 3.86 3.42 3.6 3.2 707 45 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 29.5 0.5 676 59 1125
103 6:33:26 PM 46.066 1 97.3 14.89 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.63 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 2.99 3.54 3.14 3.0 2.6 659 45 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 31.0 0.5 420 59 1000
104 6:33:26 PM 46.466 1 97.3 17.99 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.63 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.56 4.62 4.32 3.2 3.0 159 46 132 +3.1 128 0.0 36.2 0.5 239 60 825
105 6:33:26 PM 46.867 1 97.3 15.50 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.63 21 663 2.4 0.0 33.0 3.77 4.87 4.53 4.0 3.7 75 46 132 +3.1 128 0.0 36.9 0.5 159 60 975
106 6:33:27 PM 47.507 1 97.3 12.47 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.63 21 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.37 4.09 3.66 4.1 3.7 115 46 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 30.6 0.5 508 61 1200
107 6:33:27 PM 47.906 1 97.3 12.91 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 21 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.25 3.98 3.56 3.8 3.4 707 47 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 29.5 0.5 716 61 1150
108 6:33:28 PM 48.321 1 97.3 13.80 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.28 3.77 3.37 3.4 3.0 623 47 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 30.3 0.5 499 61 1075
109 6:33:28 PM 48.722 1 97.3 15.41 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.63 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.14 4.01 3.56 3.3 2.9 146 48 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 32.5 0.5 261 62 975
110 6:33:29 PM 49.121 1 97.3 17.61 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.63 21 663 2.4 0.0 32.7 3.54 4.64 4.26 3.3 3.0 80 48 132 +3.1 128 0.0 35.4 0.5 164 62 850
111 6:33:29 PM 49.777 1 97.3 13.80 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 21 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.68 4.58 4.03 4.1 3.6 44 48 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 34.0 0.5 111 62 1075
112 6:33:30 PM 50.178 1 97.3 13.23 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 21 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.39 4.18 3.80 3.9 3.6 557 49 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 31.0 0.5 221 62 1125
113 6:33:30 PM 50.577 1 97.3 13.98 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 19 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.28 4.09 3.60 3.7 3.2 716 49 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 30.6 0.5 707 63 1075
114 6:33:31 PM 50.993 1 97.3 16.60 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.14 3.94 3.48 3.0 2.6 663 49 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 32.1 0.5 460 63 900
115 6:33:31 PM 51.393 1 97.3 18.97 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.60 4.73 4.33 3.2 2.9 164 50 132 +3.1 128 0.0 36.9 0.5 234 64 800
116 6:33:32 PM 52.033 1 97.3 14.73 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.51 4.41 3.91 3.8 3.3 62 50 132 +3.1 128 0.0 35.4 0.5 128 64 1025
117 6:33:32 PM 52.434 1 97.3 14.41 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.30 4.21 3.72 3.7 3.3 111 50 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 32.1 0.5 159 64 1050
118 6:33:32 PM 52.850 1 97.3 16.72 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 1 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.17 4.12 3.65 3.1 2.7 75 50 124 -3.1 115 -10.2 32.5 0.5 133 64 900
119 6:33:33 PM 53.249 1 97.3 17.63 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 33.0 3.54 4.76 4.36 3.4 3.1 44 50 132 +3.1 128 0.0 35.8 0.5 111 64 850
120 6:33:33 PM 53.650 1 97.3 15.75 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.36 4.61 4.20 3.6 3.3 44 50 132 +3.1 128 0.0 34.7 0.5 93 64 950
121 6:33:34 PM 54.305 1 97.3 14.99 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.08 4.14 3.80 3.4 3.2 561 51 132 +3.1 128 0.0 32.1 0.5 650 65 1000
122 6:33:34 PM 54.705 1 97.3 15.93 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.17 4.27 3.89 3.4 3.1 553 51 132 +3.1 128 0.0 32.5 0.5 623 65 950
123 6:33:35 PM 55.105 1 97.3 16.79 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 0 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.27 4.50 4.09 3.4 3.1 115 52 133 +3.9 128 0.0 34.0 0.5 309 66 900
124 6:33:35 PM 55.521 1 97.3 16.31 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 33.0 3.27 4.70 4.04 3.6 3.1 80 52 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 34.3 0.5 186 66 925
125 6:33:35 PM 55.921 1 97.3 16.56 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.61 17 663 1.6 0.0 32.7 3.27 4.61 4.04 3.5 3.0 570 53 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 34.0 0.5 168 66 900
126 6:33:36 PM 56.560 1 97.3 18.65 0.0 255.0 03921 13.2 16 0.59 16 663 1.2 0.0 33.0 3.45 4.79 4.23 3.2 2.8 716 53 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 35.8 0.5 168 66 800
127 6:33:36 PM 56.960 1 97.3 19.91 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.59 13 663 1.2 0.0 33.0 3.63 4.97 4.47 3.2 2.9 725 53 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 37.7 0.5 115 66 775
128 6:33:37 PM 57.360 1 97.3 19.70 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.59 10 663 1.2 0.0 33.0 3.57 4.88 4.41 3.1 2.8 712 53 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 37.3 0.5 102 66 750
129 6:33:37 PM 57.776 1 97.3 19.79 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.57 10 663 0.4 0.0 33.0 3.54 4.76 4.44 3.0 2.8 747 53 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 36.9 0.5 141 66 750
130 6:33:38 PM 58.176 1 97.3 20.07 0.0 255.0 03921 13.3 16 0.57 9 663 0.4 0.0 32.7 3.42 4.56 4.20 2.9 2.6 774 53 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 35.8 0.5 685 67 750
131 6:33:38 PM 58.831 1 97.3 21.84 0.0 255.0 03921 13.2 16 0.57 8 663 0.0 0.0 32.7 3.42 4.50 4.12 2.5 2.3 796 53 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 35.8 0.5 751 67 675
132 6:33:39 PM 59.232 1 97.3 22.37 0.0 255.0 03921 13.0 16 0.57 8 663 0.0 0.0 32.7 3.57 4.64 4.26 2.6 2.4 791 53 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 36.6 0.5 760 67 675
133 6:33:39 PM 59.632 1 97.3 22.28 0.0 255.0 03921 12.9 16 0.55 8 663 0.0 0.0 32.7 3.57 4.61 4.23 2.6 2.4 782 53 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 36.9 0.5 787 67 675
134 6:33:40 PM 60.047 1 97.3 22.08 0.0 255.0 03921 12.9 16 0.55 8 663 0.0 0.0 32.7 3.57 4.52 4.15 2.5 2.3 778 53 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 36.9 0.5 769 67 675
135 6:33:40 PM 60.447 1 97.3 22.46 0.0 255.0 03921 12.9 16 0.55 8 663 0.0 0.0 32.7 3.57 4.49 4.12 2.5 2.3 751 53 140 +9.4 126 -1.6 36.9 0.5 725 67 675
136 6:33:41 PM 61.104 1 97.3 22.52 0.0 255.0 03921 12.8 16 0.57 8 663 0.0 0.0 32.7 3.60 4.43 4.09 2.5 2.3 358 53 139 +8.6 125 -2.3 37.3 0.5 712 67 675
137 6:33:41 PM 61.503 1 97.3 22.49 0.0 255.0 03921 12.8 16 0.55 8 663 0.0 0.0 32.7 3.57 4.61 4.00 2.6 2.2 155 54 139 +8.6 125 -2.3 37.3 0.5 389 67 675
138 6:33:41 PM 61.903 1 97.3 22.28 0.0 255.0 03921 12.8 16 0.55 8 663 0.0 0.0 32.7 3.57 4.58 4.18 2.6 2.4 97 54 139 +8.6 125 -2.3 37.3 0.5 248 68 675
139 6:33:42 PM 62.319 1 97.3 22.49 0.0 255.0 03921 12.8 16 0.55 8 663 0.0 0.0 32.7 3.57 4.58 4.17 2.6 2.3 84 54 139 +8.6 125 -2.3 36.9 0.5 177 68 675
140 6:33:42 PM 62.719 1 97.3 22.11 0.0 255.0 03921 12.8 16 0.55 8 663 0.0 0.0 32.7 3.57 4.64 4.03 2.6 2.3 80 54 139 +8.6 124 -3.1 37.3 0.5 429 69 675
141 6:33:43 PM 63.358 1 97.3 22.65 0.0 255.0 03921 12.8 16 0.55 8 663 0.0 0.0 32.7 3.57 4.67 4.14 2.5 2.2 75 54 139 +8.6 124 -3.1 36.9 0.5 323 74 650
142 6:33:43 PM 63.774 1 97.3 22.13 0.0 255.0 03921 12.8 16 0.55 8 663 0.0 0.0 32.7 3.57 4.67 4.14 2.6 2.3 111 54 139 +8.6 124 -3.1 37.3 0.5 199 74 675
143 6:33:44 PM 64.173 1 97.3 22.04 0.0 255.0 03921 12.8 16 0.55 8 663 0.0 0.0 32.7 3.54 4.55 4.14 2.6 2.3 553 55 139 +8.6 124 -3.1 36.9 0.5 177 74 675
144 6:33:44 PM 64.574 1 97.3 22.74 0.0 255.0 03921 12.8 16 0.55 8 663 0.0 0.0 32.7 3.57 4.55 4.17 2.5 2.3 632 55 139 +8.6 124 -3.1 36.9 0.5 248 74 650
145 6:33:45 PM 64.975 1 97.3 22.75 0.0 255.0 03921 12.8 16 0.55 8 663 0.0 0.0 32.7 3.57 4.70 4.20 2.5 2.3 243 56 139 +8.6 124 -3.1 36.9 0.5 181 74 650

[Franke]

Looks like you have it as a comma separated file now but the headers are over lapping so its a bit hard to read what column belongs to what header.

[Franke]

Something else you might want to do next run time is select - view - histograms - enhanced. What you will see is the long or short fuel trims for the left and right sides. Its very interesting to see what happens when at idle and off idle in closed loop mode. You can also view this with the current data file you have by playing it back and then selecting view histograms.

[XfireZ51]

Just attach the text file here in the registry.

[Schrade]

Just attach the text file here in the registry.

Not sure exactly how to do that here Dominic...

Is it taking up too much server space? Or hard to follow? Or both???


Something else you might want to do next run time is select - view - histograms - enhanced. What you will see is the long or short fuel trims for the left and right sides. Its very interesting to see what happens when at idle and off idle in closed loop mode. You can also view this with the current data file you have by playing it back and then selecting view histograms.

Will do there Franke...

[Franke]

I wouldn't worry about the short term mix as it should change rapidly but the Lterm is quite a bit different from my car. My Lterm stays between 128 and 130 both sides. Since this is a snapshot in time it looks to me that the left side was quite a bit lean and the right side was slightly rich on this particular record which looks to be the last record recorded based on the black bar that moves across the screen. So observe the Lterm as the record runs from start to finish. Something else I see different is the voltage. Yours shows 12.7 volts but mine shows consistently at about 13.5 +/- .2 volts. Hmmmm..

[Schrade]

Hover mouse over 12.7, it says, "Ignition Voltage, Volts".

What is that? WHERE is that? Alternator Field Output on the output terminal? Actual voltage @ the battery? It DOES go up to 13.3 during the recording.

I enlarged the window, and recorded for YouTube - uploading now...

@ about 1/3 of the way through the stream, just as I exceed 1.6% throttle, it goes to Open Loop. Fuel Trim Cell also defaults.

TPS % will NOT register between 1.6%, and 2.4%. The TPS sensor and circuit are in perfect order. (http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20793)

[Schrade]

DM posted here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl4INfOBUiY

[Franke]

Wow, never seen that on my car. Voltage is ok then but why the single momentary open loop at initial 1.6-2.4 % tps? It seems as if there is a flat spot on the tps but I think you said you changed it. Correct? Also, have you ever replaced the O2 sensors? One side seems to be lean at idle.

[Schrade]

Fuel filter is replaced. We'll try a few times to double-prime the rails, and see if it will prime above 44 psi.

Then cap off the FPR and re-test, to check spring tension. Obviously no rupture in the FPR bladder, to the FPR vac hose, because there's no leakdown.

Ideas here?

[GOLDCYLON]

Where's the Auxiliary Fuse Block


Behind the glove box up in the harness area and there are two of em side by side. Bring a flash light and you best shove your head up the passenger knee bolster attitude. GC

[Franke]

Did you pull the vacuum hose to the FPR to see if any diff?

[XfireZ51]

Would you again describe the hesitation? When is it happening, what controls are in play? Are you surging at a steady idle?cruise?

[Schrade]

No - haven't tried with vac source off of FPR...

It holds perfect smooth steady idle at 0% throttle there Dominic. Only on SLOW pedal depression, @ 1.6% throttle, does it start to lope idle. No stumble, missing, anything. And in Cruise, any speed, it has 2mph swing.

After 2.4%, it smooths steady RPM increase again. I can replicate it accelerating, but only with LIGHT pedal increase.

I can't get a code to light up.

[GOLDCYLON]

swap the fuel pumps. Make the secondary the primary and the Primary the secondary. See if the swap changes the stumble.

just an idea

[XfireZ51]

Does the stumble continue if you keep the pedal at a steady 1.6% TPS? Or does it stumble on the initial tip in?

[Blue Flame Restorations]

I just put pumps in the 95 a week ago. Easy peasy.

[Schrade]

I just put pumps in the 95 a week ago. Easy peasy.

No 'cautions', or 'gotcha's' on it there Brett???


Does the stumble continue if you keep the pedal at a steady 1.6% TPS? Or does it stumble on the initial tip in? YES - although it's a lope, no 'stumble'.

I'm gonna' do another vid here momentarily, with engine running to show DM readouts in sync with engine lope...

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Nope. Real straight forward. Checkout Dynomite's Solutions. Takes about an hr first time through.

[Franke]

Since the fuel pressure increases to maintain regulated pressure when the vacuum drops (opening throttle) then removing the hose should tell the FPR to increase fuel pressure. The FSM does talk about that in Emissions and drivability. I wouldn't do this for long periods of time with the FPR to prevent problems in case of injector malfunction. Follow chart A7 to check FPR on page 6e3-A-29&31. Maybe that will help.
Scottfab once said in another post that fuel pressure as low as your was (44psi) is too low. According to FSM I would have to agree. Performance issues could crop up but I'm not sure it would cause your hesitation at just off idle.

[Dynomite]

Should I pull the IH's next? Or DIS?

Pull the His....the DIS is under the Plenum with four bolts. That is already pulled with the Plenum.

And are you removing the starter and AC compressor?
If so on the AC compressor....you just set that aside but be very very careful you do not put a bending load on the AC lines going into the evaporator.

I assume you are pulling the starter and cleaning out the Valley Drain also.......and maybe pulling the crankcase breather cover and installing new gasket.

And since you have starter removed....take the Solenoid apart and clean up the contacts when you are at it.

[Schrade]

Pull the His....the DIS is under the Plenum with four bolts. That is already pulled with the Plenum.

And are you removing the starter and AC compressor?
If so on the AC compressor....you just set that aside but be very very careful you do not put a bending load on the AC lines going into the evaporator.

I assume you are pulling the starter and cleaning out the Valley Drain also.......and maybe pulling the crankcase breather cover and installing new gasket.

And since you have starter removed....take the Solenoid apart and clean up the contacts when you are at it.

Yep - got to roll the AC comp aside - dropped a bolt for mounting one of the 4 the ?'s (distributors) (above the starter), at the PS pump. Another hunting setback.

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2891&stc=1&d=1381884117

Di-electric grease after cleaning, on the contact prongs at re-assembly???

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2892&stc=1&d=1381884262

Breaktime on breakdown; cleaning parts ahead...

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2890&stc=1&d=1381884048

[GOLDCYLON]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsqJFIJ5lLs

[GOLDCYLON]

By request. I split the threads. GC :cheers:

[Schrade]

By request. I split the threads. GC :cheers:

Thanks for breakin' 'em up; I bet that was a pain sorting out...

Maybe too much to ask and hit the road and help me wrench a little here???

[GOLDCYLON]

Lol if you were in AZ I'd bring the Tech 1 as well. Yeah NC is a little far. GC

[XfireZ51]

If that's idle, I think your TPS VOLTAGE is too high.

[Schrade]

If that's idle, I think your TPS VOLTAGE is too high.

Idle TPS voltage was good there Dominic - about .54 - I had just calibrated a few weeks ago, when I started this investigation http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20793.

1.6V is where the hesitation and lope kicked in, and voltage jumped from 1.6 - 2.4, in sync with the lope. Could NOT get smooth rpm increase at that point in throttle upswing.

[XfireZ51]

Idle TPS voltage was good there Dominic - about .54 - I had just calibrated a few weeks ago, when I started this investigation http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20793.

1.6V is where the hesitation and lope kicked in, and voltage jumped from 1.6 - 2.4, in sync with the lope. Could NOT get smooth rpm increase at that point in throttle upswing.

Well, looking at your vid it says .61v. I'm inferring the vid is at idle.

[Schrade]

Well, looking at your vid it says .61v. I'm inferring the vid is at idle.

I'll double check the recording there Dominic, and re-calibrate at re-assembly of course... Maybe I missed something there... (or maybe I got one or 2 things, and missed the rest :mrgreen: ).

If I could send the last recording I made, I think someone with DM could see something, even tho' I had some of the wrong parameters set for monitoring...

If there had just been ONE CODE - even a History one...

[Schrade]

Is there a vacuum issue potentially with the CC cover / seal? If there is vacuum there, and it's leaking, what would be the manifestations?

Hesitation perhaps???

[Schrade]

ed.:
I'm gonna' solve this Mother&^%$ !!!


OK here; we left off of this 'Hesitation' thread @ spark plugs and wiring. That's when the Top End Re-finish work started.

So spark plugs are replaced (along with a little ancillary top end housework :mrgreen: )

Next in the FSM diagnostic for 'hesitation' is the chip - see below.

With Marc's chip installed, for high idle coast-down and lower temps trigger, and then his re-coded chip for secondary vacuum deletion, I can count THAT step OFF as well - CORRECT?

So that takes me to TPS function test again...

ANyone else? Any comments on the vid?

Well, maybe at a standstill on DM, so let's get in from another angle here. We'll take special note for variables in common with Cruise Control surging...

Codes. Just like cops. Can't get one when you need one. :rolleyes:

'Hesitation' is about a perfect description...



I did static fuel pressure, and leakdown time, when I got it last year (didn't do dynamic pressure test tho'); let's start over here

[XfireZ51]

Chuck,

What happened to the high idle issue? Has that been addressed because I thought you had determined secondary blades were off?
With the "hesitation" when does it happen? Just off idle? At small accelerator changes?

[Schrade]

Chuck,

What happened to the high idle issue? Has that been addressed because I thought you had determined secondary blades were off?
With the "hesitation" when does it happen? Just off idle? At small accelerator changes?

I still have the restrictor gasket in place.

Starting is MUCH quicker now, than before the top end cleanup began. Cleaned up electricals and contacts, and dirt removal, and injector nozzle cleanup has made a significant difference.

OL and CL idle quality is flawless (can't even tell when it goes CL), and will obviously make for easier diagnosis of the hesitation issue, which has NOT changed.

New vid just now (uploading to Y/T). Erratic response starts @ :26. It's hard to slowly raise throttle by hand...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsKFOiNpLXk

IMMEDIATELY when throttle comes off idle, it becomes erratic, until 'around' 950 rpms / ? exact TPS volts / ? exact % Throttle Opening, then it's smooth again.

If I can get 'the factor' at it's critical point - that is, where the increase is pushed 'over it's response edge', it should stick out in the DataMaster histogram.

I need some way of MECHANICALLY increasing the throttle, in TINY increments, to get to 'the factor's threshhold'. The idle stop screw would be perfect, but it's too difficult to access, with all the components in place...

RPM Transmissions gave a listen to the buzzing TPS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hujg7xtlC38

and said it's normal for the Fluid Pressure Control solenoid to buzz, and probably isn't related to the hesitation coming off of idle.

[Dynomite]

Are you pointing to a page in the infamous FSM that WVZR-1 always refers to?

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2829&stc=1&d=1381517157

[Schrade]

Are you pointing to a page in the infamous FSM that WVZR-1 always refers to?

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2829&stc=1&d=1381517157

Yer' dang tootin' I am...

The answer's right there, and I ain't gettin' it.

[XfireZ51]

Sounds like a lean surge to me. What % TPS was that? Did this start after the secondary elimination?

[Schrade]

Sounds like a lean surge to me. What % TPS was that? Did this start after the secondary elimination?

No Dom; it's the same hesitation.

I'm thinking perhaps lean surge also - only FP test I didn't do was FPR vacuum response.

FSM says apply 10" Hg. vac lift, and observe...

[XfireZ51]

Ever change the fuel filter under passenger side firewall?

[Schrade]

Ever change the fuel filter under passenger side firewall?

Did it on day 2 owning the car.

[Schrade]

Sounds like a lean surge to me. What % TPS was that? Did this start after the secondary elimination?

TO % Dom probably is not even registering above 0%, as the hesitation starts, but I'll try to get a read on it...

I'm gonna' try to set up the throttle stop screw accessible, to incrementally increase throttle.

So how about INJ resistance test?

Can they be tested at the ECM terminals?

I suppose if they ohm through near 16 Ohms, all are good, and it they ohm UNDER spec, it could still be the leads TO the INJ's...

Cold AND warmed up test?

[Franke]

Schrade,
Not sure this is your problem. All 16 of my injectors measured about 12-13 ohms cold. None were at 16 ohms. When hot, 4 of them measured anywhere from 6-10 ohms. They were the bad ones. 1 Primary and 3 secondary. The symptoms was a good idling engine until warmed up. Then a miss as the 1 primary injector started to fail. Since I had 3 bad injectors on the secondary side there was no effect until secondary operation. There was no regular hesitation as you are describing. The primaries can be tested at the ECM but the secondary's are not measured at the ECM. Marc Haibeck published a procedure on how its done which I followed.

[Schrade]

Anyone know where the pinout ID is in FSM for ECM?

[Dynomite]

Anyone know where the pinout ID is in FSM for ECM?

Marc has identified the ECM Pin outs for fuel injector resistance here....

Measuring Fuel Injector Resistance with the Plenum in Place (http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20Web/articles/FI%20Resistance.htm)

Marc says:
1. The primary fuel injectors have a common connection at the Inj 1 fuse. Resistance measurements can be made between the fuse connector and the individual connections on ECM connector A.

2. The secondary fuel injector resistance is measured between the ECM A connector and the secondary relay connectors. Remove the secondary relay connectors for easy access to the pins.

As Franke suggests.....
The primaries can be tested at the ECM but the secondary's are not measured at the ECM. Marc Haibeck published a procedure on how its done which I followed.

[XfireZ51]

Chuck,

Here's a real easy way of doing it.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x198/Z51Xfire/LT5%20IM%20Documentation/CheckingZR1FuelInjectorResistances_zpsf229cdb1.png (http://s187.photobucket.com/user/Z51Xfire/media/LT5%20IM%20Documentation/CheckingZR1FuelInjectorResistances_zpsf229cdb1.png .html)

[Schrade]

THanks there Dom...

But I'll tell ya'; it's @ the point where if I take the long way around, I might find something that's @ the root cause of this issue.

And then again, I might NOT ever find anything... :neutral:

[XfireZ51]

I can't tell from the video but does the stumbling continue or only just after you move the throttle?

[Franke]

Chuck, Your secondary injectors shouldn't cause a hesitation just off idle but it won't hurt to check (ohm) them anyway.
After watching that video again it appears to me that the ECM may be fuel mixture hunting just off idle - not so much of a hesitation. Could it be the O2's or ???

[Schrade]

Sounds like a lean surge to me. What % TPS was that? Did this start after the secondary elimination?

I can't tell from the video but does the stumbling continue or only just after you move the throttle?

It hesitates coming off idle, and if I hold throttle at about 1.6%, it lopes.

Above 2.4% about, it's fine all the way up...

I'm not even planning ohming the 2' INJ's

[Schrade]

Sounds like a lean surge to me. What % TPS was that? Did this start after the secondary elimination?

Is a 'lean surge' possible here, with 2 adjacent cylinders @ .012 Ohms??? (no FP leakdown)

And it's just as before, except 0% idle is perfectly stable now.

[Schrade]

Franke, Dominic - I'm about 99% certain that my answer is in posts 37, 38, and 39, on page 4 (http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21259&page=4) of this thread.

I don't remember at the moment how I got this DM data - help?

And can I get this data in a lined DM graph?

[Schrade]

Some more testing here.

TPS baseline (motor off):

.53V; 0% TO in DM

Screwed in TB stop screw

.55V; still 0% TO

Screwed in to .57V; TO still @ 0%

.59V; still 0% TO

TPS bouncing from .59V - .61V; TO% bouncing from 0% - .4% THIS IS .06 - .08 INCREASE, BEFORE TO% SHOWS OPENING. NO MANIFESTATIONS OF A PROBLEM ARE APPARENT AT THIS POINT, WHEN RUNNING. :neutral:

.61V steady; .4% TO steady

.61V - .63V TPS = .4% - 1.2% TO

.63V = 1.2% TO steady both ends

.63 - .64; 1.2 - 1.6% TO

.64V TPS = 1.6% TO; steady both ends. This is where the idle swing begins, usually about 100 RPM's.

.64V - .66V; still steady 1.6% TO

SLIGHT more turn gives .64V - .66V; TO% bouncing from 1.6% - 2.4%. This is where more pronounced idle swing starts - about 350 RPM's.

.66V steady; 2.4% TO steady.

.66V - .68V; 2.4 - 2.7% TO

.68V steady; 2.7% TO steady. She won't hold 2.7% TO while running.

.68V - .7V; 2.7% - 3.1% TO

.7V steady; 3.1% TO steady

.7 - .72V; 3.1 - 3.9% TO

And the throttle stop screw is pegged. Not to worry; another @ hand 1/4" longer...

[Tyler Townsley]

OK lets throw in a ringer. in a lt-5 the spark and fuel is controlled by the dis module until about 400 rpm where it is passed to the ecm. I once had a dis module that was fine until about 400 rpm then it fell apart. Took me 2 years to find out that they make a dis checker. As soon as I used it I could see it falling apart on a handheld scope and I replaced the dis module.

Tyler

[Franke]

Not sure if you changed out that TPS or not but it seems like it happens at the same tps position each time. Your thoughts?

[XfireZ51]

Chuck,

Reading what you've done by incrementally moving the throttle is this:
As you approach 1.6-1.9%TPS(just off idle) the ECM transitions from idle to run. What's happening is that it goes from using a static SA for closed throttle to SA in the spark tables. When tuning, you try to flatten that area so that you don't get surging that seems to be happening. May need to look at that table. At the same time you are also transitioning from single to double injector spraying since the ECM is transitioning from a Closed Port VE table to an Open Port Throttle VE table. OTOH, I doubt that your throttle movements are so fine that you are always are always at that point. In the stock calibration, there is a slight delay built into the turn on of the secondary injectors, most likely to give the secondary throttle plates time to open. Also, acceleration enrichment may need a bit more fuel to enhance tip-in response.

[Schrade]

Where do I buy a DIS 'checker'?

TPS is not new.

How do I examine the 'tables'?

[XfireZ51]

Where do I buy a DIS 'checker'?

TPS is not new.

How do I examine the 'tables'?

Are you datalogging any of this?

[Schrade]

Are you datalogging any of this?

I just replaced the OEM throttle stop screw, with another bolt, to be able to make FINE, MINUTE and PRECISE incremental increases in throttle, FOR DM recording, to attempt to see the 'offender' in action.

From post 79:
I need some way of MECHANICALLY increasing the throttle, in TINY increments, to get to 'the factor's threshhold'. The idle stop screw would be perfect, but it's too difficult to access, with all the components in place...

Today's exercise was just a dry-trial of the precision of the new bolt's movement.

NOW...perhaps we can find something in DM.

[Franke]

Schrade, as an FYI from The Datamaster files:

TPS Percent
This shows the calculated Load Value the PCM is using at the current instant. Roughly corresponds to the throttle position, but takes into account many other items as well. This value will not necessarily track the TPS volts value

TPS Volts
This shows the voltage measured from the Throttle Position Sensor. Will generally range from 0.5 Volts (throttle closed) to 4.5 Volts (throttle fully open).

[Tyler Townsley]

Chuck,

transitioning from single to double injector spraying since the ECM is transitioning from a Closed Port VE table to an Open Port Throttle VE table. .

I did not think we were talking about going into the PE mode here. I assumed we were talking about normal throttle operation?

Tyler

[XfireZ51]

I did not think we were talking about going into the PE mode here. I assumed we were talking about normal throttle operation?

Tyler

Tyler,

No, you're correct. Chuck has eliminated his secondaries and installed a Haibeck chip that brings on the secondary injectors above idle.

[Schrade]

Schrade, as an FYI from The Datamaster files:

TPS Percent
This shows the calculated Load Value the PCM is using at the current instant. Roughly corresponds to the throttle position, but takes into account many other items as well. This value will not necessarily track the TPS volts value

TPS Volts
This shows the voltage measured from the Throttle Position Sensor. Will generally range from 0.5 Volts (throttle closed) to 4.5 Volts (throttle fully open).
I'm still only on p. 16 (of 92) of DM manual there Franke; long way to go, to another 51 page - 8khits thread, but no better scratchpad than the boards here, and maybe someone else might get something as I go ...

Mods are EASY. Tune is NOT...........

Next will be additional static TPS voltage test, with voltmeter backprobe to TPS, to compare DM TPS volt readout, with actual voltmeter readout.

Should have done that with post 100 test.....

[Tyler Townsley]

Where do I buy a DIS 'checker'?

I use a OTC 3575 ignition system simulator also known as a PRI ISS Ignition System Simulator. I bought it off ebay years ago for $130. It checks Ford, Chev and Chry dis ignition systems. What I like about it is you do not have to have the car running to check it out, you do need a scope to look at the different signal forms which is how I saw the fact that the dis was falling apart.

Tyler

[Tyler Townsley]

Tyler,

No, you're correct. Chuck has eliminated his secondaries and installed a Haibeck chip that brings on the secondary injectors above idle.

OK I have the same mod but I thought when Tod (I assume Marc is using Tods hack to accomplish the turn on) did the mod it turned on both injectors on start.

Tod are you out there?

If he is turning on both injectors is he using the constant that controls the initial flow of the injector then calculating how much to cut from one injector and applying that to the second injector on turn on so that the flow rate is the same? That % calculation is a constant in the table and can be adjusted.


Tyler

[XfireZ51]

Chuck,

If you go to page 15 of the DM manual, (http://www.tunercat.com/Docs/DM32man_v400.pdf) you'll see that you can export data as a .csv file. That will allow you to look at it using .xls. Just record your throttle position session and then you can review whats happening.
Makes things much easier.

[Schrade]

I use a OTC 3575 ignition system simulator also known as a PRI ISS Ignition System Simulator. I bought it off ebay years ago for $130. It checks Ford, Chev and Chry dis ignition systems. What I like about it is you do not have to have the car running to check it out, you do need a scope to look at the different signal forms which is how I saw the fact that the dis was falling apart.

Tyler

Does it read out for ALL operational variables?

I have ONE, at least, which is not within spec. And without a DTC, I have to essentially see the whole operating system.

I think Windows is easier than this (and I do Linux OS). Command line interface doesn't scare me, but reading fuel trim cells - hmmm ...


I did the comma separated values data file, posts 37 - 39, this thread. Posted format didn't come out too well, and pertinent values might not appear, but I'm working on it.

Even BEFORE that, I need to know WHICH values to include in the 'Bit Data'. EGR duty cycle, and Vehicle Speed, for example, aren't necessary...

[XfireZ51]

Just attach the text file to the post or send it to me.

[tpepmeie]

OK I have the same mod but I thought when Tod (I assume Marc is using Tods hack to accomplish the turn on) did the mod it turned on both injectors on start.

Tod are you out there?

Tyler

Marc does it slightly different than I do. He turns them on >0% throttle. works well either way.

[Tyler Townsley]

Does it read out for ALL operational parameters?

I have ONE, at least, which is not within spec. And without a DTC, I have to essentially see the whole operating system.

I think Windows is easier than this (and I do Linux OS). Command line interface doesn't scare me, but reading fuel trim cells - hmmm ...


I did the comma separated values data file, posts 37 - 39, this thread. Posted format didn't come out too well, and pertinent values might not appear, but I'm working on it.

Even BEFORE that, I need to know WHICH values to include in the 'Bit Data'. EGR duty cycle, and Vehicle Speed, for example, aren't necessary...

The checker does not 'read' any sensors. It simulates the inputs to the dis module. It has an adjustment that varies the inputs from 0 throttle to 7k. You can scope the output to the coils or pull the plugs and watch the spark across the plugs.

http://thepandatrap.com/tyler/misc1/dis_3.jpg
http://thepandatrap.com/tyler/prototype1/page18.jpg
http://thepandatrap.com/tyler/prototype1/page16.jpg

Tyler

[XfireZ51]

Chuck,

Looking at what you posted, it seems like you get all the parameters in the data stream. So yeah, just record that and export it as a .csv file.

[Schrade]

This will be over NO time soon. It's a comedy of errorS, or a Greek Tragedy - depending on who's holding the wrench.

Got everything bolted back up, ready to manipulate the throttle stop bolt for DM recording, and lo and behold, the coolant by-pass line had jumped the casting ridge on the A/C compressor again - bound under the primary butterfly shaft.

:mad: :mad: :mad: I was cursing.

Got it un-zipped, freed up the line in 3 minutes, back together. Then the last TB extension bolt fell out.

It is no where to be found.

Then I REALLY started cursing.

And the D side coolant manifold elbow is leaking - can't tell if it's a loose gasket, or ruptured elbow.

Next up; drain the coolant from the cross-over pipe lower, pull it, and pull the serpentine belt, to get a better field of view. Hopefully, the bolt will show without having to break down block front accessories...

This is getting really discouraging.

[Franke]

Can you probe with your magnet to see if you can catch it> Like goin' fishing.

[Dynomite]

This is getting really discouraging.

What I do because I have spares of everything for three corvettes (two Zs) is switch from suspect bad component to known good component. Then leave good component on if that is the case and when time is available .....fix bad component if fixable ;)

This involves little time, NO immediate component testing.........and NO DISCOURAGEMENT...........usually :D

Can you probe with your magnet to see if you can catch it> Like goin' fishing.
It is amazing the remote fishing holes below an LT5 and even more amazing the oddball fish that lurk there ;)

I have found injectors from previous maintenance there for example.

[Schrade]

Power Steering pump separation? 4 bolts?

3B-12, FSM.

4 bolts? Dream on, butterfingers...

[Schrade]

But wait - it's gets better.

Plenum off. Maybe it dropped under there, or even UNDER the A/C comp. It has to come off anyway, because the lower TB bolt bailed, between the A/C comp, and the alternator.

Let's lift the A/C comp. Nope - the forward inboard A/C comp bolt is too recessed under alternator to get the 10mm socket on it - slipped once. 10mm box slipped too. Pull the alternator, BEFORE we round off the 10mm hex, to something that will load in a 9mm shell casing.

Then the alt field output nut seized on the bolt, and the bolt turned in the case. Di-electric grease glue??? WTH? Needle-nosed pliers on the output wire ring, 10mm on the nut.

The wire ring broke. MF'er.

Now - is the alternator toast, with the field output INTERNAL bolt connection broken?

Can of worms? Hardly. You can only get so many worms in a can. How many worms can you get in an LT5?

I'll let your great grand-kids know.

[Dynomite]

But wait - it's gets better.



You are not even close to how bad it can get. I had to pull the engine and replace a liner/piston/rings :D

Merry Christmas :handshak:

[Schrade]

You are not even close to how bad it can get. I had to pull the engine and replace a liner/piston/rings :D

Merry Christmas :handshak:

You know if I've detonated my alternator here Cliff? The field output bolt turned about 1/3 counter-clockwise.

It it a wire connection internal? Or washer-type?

I think a bench test at Advance in the AM is in order...

Anyway, no TB extension bolt under the plenum....................................

[Dynomite]

You know if I've detonated my alternator here Cliff? The field output bolt turned about 1/3 counter-clockwise.

It it a wire connection internal? Or washer-type?

I think a bench test at Advance in the AM is in order...

Anyway, no TB extension bolt under the plenum....................................

Split the case and check or simply have the alternator tested at Oreillys or Advance for free.
I doubt you destroyed the alternator beyond your own repair.....

That is why I suggested to split the case and when at it you could check brushes and bearings......and check/reinstall that connection from inside the case.

Watch the brushes when you pull out the armature very slowly......Something like this as this is typical.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite3/brushes.jpg

[Schrade]

You are not even close to how bad it can get. I had to pull the engine and replace a liner/piston/rings :D

Merry Christmas :handshak:

After you had already done it once, and were putting in the last bolt?

I was DONE, except for DataMaster analysis.

Now the plenum is off, A/C comp loose, coolant lines out, alternator out, broken ring on the alt. field output wire, scratches in the new painted parts, the TB extension bolt is in the Twilight Zone, and after I find it, and get everything put BACK together AGAIN, then back to DM, to try to solve the hesitation.

But life is good. The alternator bench tested good. Kinda' bothers me tho' - I KNEW i was gonna' have to repair it, or buy another alternator...

It ain't as much fun as it was last week.

[XfireZ51]

Chuck,

Have you seen any wild geese lately?

[Schrade]

Chuck,

Have you seen any wild geese lately?

Funny guy, huh...

I'm gonna' have the cleanest machine of all, that doesn't work right...

I might make BG ... in '15 - 2115 - and then again ...

[Schrade]

Change of heart; time to admit defeat.

Quittin' time. Tomorrow, put a box to the crank pulley bolt, and spin it. If it doesn't grind out the bolt from behind the pulley, put it back together, and try to find a replacement TB extension bolt. Then drop IT too.

This crap is makin' me sick...

[Dynomite]

Change of heart; time to admit defeat.

Quittin' time. Tomorrow, put a box to the crank pulley bolt, and spin it. If it doesn't grind out the bolt from behind the pulley, put it back together, and try to find a replacement TB extension bolt. Then drop IT too.

This crap is makin' me sick...

I know exactly what you are thinking......but down under around motor mounts are lots of hiding places :p
I am sure Jerry has exactly the bolt you are looking for.
Just type in Throttle Body in the Search and look at third page of that search on Jerry's Web Site (http://jerrysgaskets.com/store2/root/)

[Schrade]

I know exactly what you are thinking......but down under around motor mounts are lots of hiding places :p
I am sure Jerry has exactly the bolt you are looking for.
Just type in Throttle Body in the Search and look at third page on Jerry's Web Site (http://jerrysgaskets.com/store2/root/)

Got it; thanks there Cliff...

This kind of thing eats me up tho'... I could find and solve the 'hesitation' gig, but knowing that my bolt is under the motor will never stop bothering me. Never. Even if I knew it wouldn't roll into the serp belt (which I now know), and mangle a pulley, it wouldn't stop bothering me...

Jerry; if you're watchin' here, send me this TB extension [upper] bolt. I'll forward PP, or CC#, or check.

[A26B]

4 bolts are held in place with c-clip retainers:
http://jerrysgaskets.com/store2/root/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=354

C-Clip Retainers for 4 bolts:
http://jerrysgaskets.com/store2/root/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=355

2 top bolts:
http://jerrysgaskets.com/store2/root/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=96

Simply order from store & we will get it out to you.....

[Schrade]

Alright; goin' off for 2 days here; if 4-5 of you elves wanna' come re-assemble my mill, solve the 'hesitation', and do a little wax, I'll get over it.

Tools are out, door's open, 3/4 of a half gallon of Crown in the fridge (mixer ( or the rocks, if you have taste ) is on you.

AND FIND THAT BOLT WHILE YOU'RE AT IT!!!

And never mind that battleax Hawkeye Potts next door; she'll watch, but not much more...

Have a good Christmas.

[Franke]

Merry Christmas to you Schrade. Unfortunately Santa has restricted this Elf to Colorado this year but maybe the new year will be kinder to ya. Maybe Santa has some extra bolts from his ZR1. I hear its pretty quick to deliver all those toys in one night. :)

[Schrade]

I found the bolt earlier today. Haven't actually touched it tho' - I have to corkscrew the light/cam about 270' into place to see it, and take screenshots and snappics, and no landmarks either.

[USAZR1]

Hydrogen Embrittlement isn't a problem with aluminum. Have you considered powdercoating the case with a high gloss powder. I've seen some that are as shiny as chrome.

[Tyler Townsley]

http://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb.dll?parta~dyndetail~Z5Z5Z50000050e~Z5Z5Z56509~P 9.95~~~~S3YN149MJ972188283123a~Z5Z5Z5~Z5Z5Z5000005 0x~~~

Tyler

[Franke]

I've seen rebuilt alt's from parts stores with silver paint on them to pretty them up because the case is stained just like you said. When I went to wipe them down after installation the paint came off.
As far as the coating on the field core - its there for several reasons. Corrosion resistance mainly. I wouldn't clean it off. Tyler's idea above looks like a good solution for a low buck fix.

[Franke]

Schrade,
There should be a little hole in which to insert a toothpick or other small round stick which holds the brushes in place and protrudes out the back of the case. That way you can pull the pick out when the case is assembled together and allow the brushes to contact the armature. Put the toothpick through the hole in the brushes case as well as the alt case. Don't need fishing line. Try it I think you'll like it. :) Also, be careful using rubber as an alt terminal insulator as the original one is made from Bakelite or fiberglass and doesn't compress like rubber to maintain clearance to the case.

[Schrade]

Schrade,
There should be a little hole in which to insert a toothpick or other small round stick which holds the brushes in place and protrudes out the back of the case. That way you can pull the pick out when the case is assembled together and allow the brushes to contact the armature. Put the toothpick through the hole in the brushes case as well as the alt case. Don't need fishing line. Try it I think you'll like it. :) Also, be careful using rubber as an alt terminal insulator as the original one is made from Bakelite or fiberglass and doesn't compress like rubber to maintain clearance to the case.

Rubber squeeze WAS a concern there Franke, but it's tight enough in the opening so the shank is ok. The bolt head with half a grommet is tentative; probably go with a whole one instead there...

Just saw the opening in the case rear for the tool Jxxxx :mrgreen: , for the brush retension @ assembly. Wondered about that as I went...

[Paul Workman]

Due to the high rpm achieved by the alternator, I'm sure you can appreciate the need for extremely tight balance specs for the rotating hardware; and that includes the impeller (fan). My point is, I don't recommend painting the impeller as doing so may result in upsetting the center of gravity to (at the very least) cause premature bearing wear.

But, if you DO paint the impeller, care must be taken to assure the paint is applied (or plating, if that be the case) absolutely even. One way to do that is to spin the impeller as the paint is sprayed on, OR dipping. (It appears the paint on the impeller is laid on perhaps a bit thick(?), and probably done with the impeller in a stationary state while hand sprayed, yes?[-X)

Maybe you're OK, but I hope you haven't created a future problem...Just sayin.

FWIW,

P.

[Schrade]

Vid uploaded on alternator housing paint - I'd gotten a couple of PM's about laying colors on the plenum, and TB extension paint / decals. Not too much difference here, except for Aluminum paint...

It does NOT have polyglass + MEK hardener mixed into the paint - I haven't checked on miscibility in Aluminum paint. Anybody know already??? Lenny DaVinci I ain't; maybe I oughtta' check into Holiday Inn Express for a night or 2 here...

vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGvu8VpX97Y)

[Schrade]

Ya, Schrade I was deeply offended....:hello:

Have you got that thing running finally?

THING? You call my stuff a THING?

Anyway here, how did you know it's a 'thing'??? Kinda' flattered actually :mrgreen:

No - haven't got it re-assembled [again] yet. And still thanks for the TB butterfly screws too! http://www.zr1.net/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif and We Gone (parts CD), and geezer Own. Man.), and Dom, and someone else who sent me free stuff too - who WAS IT???

The paint on the alternator fan WAS not right. Like PW said, balance IS a consideration, and I'd thought of balance as I hadn't thinned it, or mixed poly/MEK in it. It definitely would have made for a balance issue, with some sags on one side. And stripping the paint off the fan was a PAIN.

Doesn't matter - not enough Global Warming to work outside right now anyway. My 'garage' is the perfect compliment to Lincoln's birthhome - ONE wall. And I ain't no popsicle. Plus the missing bolt is still in the same place where I found it with the spycam - and I don't have a clue where it actually is.

Gotta' replace one of the coolant manifold elbows too. Curious about Samco stuff - anyone ever heard anything about Samco stuff? Cliff by chance maybe?

[A26B]

"Samco" is a company that makes silicone hose products.

We now have un-branded reinforced silicone coolant hose sets and high quality SS clamps.

http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21668

[Dynomite]

"Samco" is a company that makes silicone hose products.

We now have un-branded reinforced silicone coolant hose sets and high quality SS clamps.

http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21668

Yep...just as Jerry suggests.....and Jerry's hose clamps appear to be for silicone hoses also having rounded edges preventing the clamp from biting into the silicone hose.

I have a set of Red Samcos on a 91' and a set of hoses from Marc Haibeck (non silicon but perfect fit) on a 90'. They are installed ;)
Engine Coolant Hoses (http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20Web/products/hoses.htm)

[scottfab]

I re-did the alternator fan with properly thinned paint, 3 coats. I'm pretty sure that the un-thinned paint sags on the underneath side would have made for a balance issue as it was...

This was the video for painting the housing. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGvu8VpX97Y)

So now it's ready for some di-electric grease on the connector screws, and re-assembly:



What a great idea to video the operation. I was just this morning writing to someone my intent to do this on my upper control arm bushing replacement project.
Your vid motivates me to do so even more !
Thanks

[Schrade]

What a great idea to video the operation. I was just this morning writing to someone my intent to do this on my upper control arm bushing replacement project.
Your vid motivates me to do so even more !
Thanks

You're welcome there!

I'm just trying to avoid the hesitation issue - hoping that the Z-Gods will make it will go away :-({|=

[Halinmontana]

Just a thought but if you are concerned with the heavy amount of paint on the brush, you might want to dab it into a paper towel to remove excess and then keep going back to your original amount laid on the part to thin it out. That is what my daughter (the painter) does with her work so that it's not to heavily applied. (Just in case you are planning on painting more parts but NICE JOB).

[XfireZ51]

Are you saying you had a vacuum leak at the PCV tube? BTW, I have an extra of those.

[Franke]

Chuck, if you didn't have bad luck then you wouldn't have any luck at all. :) Got a suggestion for ya...Use Tupperware/Rubbermaid or plastic containers (cottage cheese /butter etc.) with lids for your bolts. I also use old semi clear pill bottles with twist caps and label them as to where the bolts come from. You can also use magnetic parts trays sometimes. Not all bolts are magnetic so the different containers work best.

[scottfab]

...snip....

Anyway, I got 'em both. One on back of the tranny case on a harness, and the other with the seeing eye cam. NIFTY TOOL YUP.



I have one of those (different kind). Will the snake end of yours
fit down the spark plug hole? Mine wont' quite fit.

[Dynomite]

Anyway, I got 'em both. One on back of the tranny case on a harness, and the other with the seeing eye cam. NIFTY TOOL YUP.



I have a Whistler Wireless Inspection Camera 9mm Model IC-3709PX. The camera probe will fit easily into a spark plug port. With the piston at BDC you can actually place a bend in the camera probe cable and by rotating the camera probe cable can look at the side walls of the cylinder. The tops of the pistons can be visually inspected 360 deg.

One can insert the camera probe between the runners and above/below the fuel rail inspecting all sorts of items under the plenum. You can even watch the secondaries function as you like hot wiring Pin C17 with a Pin Probe as described by Marc Haibeck Secondary Operation without removing the Plenum (http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20Web/articles/sec%20throttle%20test.htm)

[Schrade]

I have a Whistler Wireless Inspection Camera 9mm Model IC-3709PX. The camera probe will fit easily into a spark plug port. With the piston at BDC you can actually place a bend in the camera probe cable and by rotating the camera probe cable can look at the side walls of the cylinder. The tops of the pistons can be visually inspected 360 deg.

One can insert the camera probe between the runners and above/below the fuel rail inspecting all sorts of items under the plenum. You can even watch the secondaries function as you like hot wiring Pin C17 with a Pin Probe as described by Marc Haibeck Secondary Operation without removing the Plenum (http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20Web/articles/sec%20throttle%20test.htm)

Mine is Whistler WIC - 5000 - a step down from yours I think there Cliff, although cam is 9mm, so it should go through SP opening...

COuldn't be better, unless it had sleeve cables to 'steer' as it goes...

I have one of those (different kind). Will the snake end of yours
fit down the spark plug hole? Mine wont' quite fit.
I got it AFTER putting in new plugs there Scott, after seein' mgbrv8 use it to diagnose gas problem in his rear end:

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3097&d=1386182355

[scottfab]

Mine is Whistler WIC - 5000 -
...snip...

I got it AFTER putting in new plugs there Scott, after seein' mgbrv8 use it to diagnose gas problem in his rear end:



Well I blew it because the head on mine is just ever so much bigger than
the plug hole, crap. I may be able to to machine it down. dunno

I only bought it because it was on sale and knew eventually it'd come in
handy. So far not though. Just bought it last year and it sits in it's case
waiting for the day. Got all excited the other day when a screw went missing on a friends toyota that could have fallen in the V but... found it
on the ground.

Using it to watch the secondaries operate will be possible but first
they'd have to start messing up.

[Schrade]

Well I blew it because the head on mine is just ever so much bigger than
the plug hole, crap. I may be able to to machine it down. dunno

I only bought it because it was on sale and knew eventually it'd come in
handy. So far not though. Just bought it last year and it sits in it's case
waiting for the day. Got all excited the other day when a screw went missing on a friends toyota that could have fallen in the V but... found it
on the ground.

Using it to watch the secondaries operate will be possible but first
they'd have to start messing up.

If you're a damn butterfingers like me there Scott, you BETTER have one! And a magnet stick too.

I could have at least SEEN the moth that flew into #3 intake, when I had IH's off, but I couldn't have pulled him, unless he had that magnotactic bacteria in his noggin, like whales get that jams their migration 'GPS' and beaches them...

[Dynomite]

I have a Whistler Wireless Inspection Camera 9mm Model IC-3709PX. The camera probe will fit easily into a spark plug port. With the piston at BDC you can actually place a bend in the camera probe cable and by rotating the camera probe cable can look at the side walls of the cylinder. The tops of the pistons can be visually inspected 360 deg.

One can insert the camera probe between the runners and above/below the fuel rail inspecting all sorts of items under the plenum. You can even watch the secondaries function as you like hot wiring Pin C17 with a Pin Probe as described by Marc Haibeck Secondary Operation without removing the Plenum (http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20Web/articles/sec%20throttle%20test.htm)

And :p You can use the inspection camera to look at brake pads, under the dash in places you can only stick a screw driver poking the camera probe between wiring to look beyond wiring, inspection of front cover for leaks, inspection of water pump for leaks, inspection of front seal, inspection for bolts dropped and caught between headers, checking smoothness of secondary operation, inspection of vacuum hoses under plenum, inspection of wiring under plenum, and if you want you can inspect inside your differential case after you have drained the fluid (same with transmission, and oil pan), and especially inspection for those very hard to find oil leaks around the OPRV (Oil Pressure Regulating Valve Cover) :cheers:

[Paul Workman]

Using it to watch the secondaries operate will be possible but first
they'd have to start messing up.

Secondaries: Give 'em time... They'll get you, my pretty! (and your little dog too!):p

[Schrade]

Additional coat of Red on coolant manifolds, while waiting for PCV X-over tube from Dominic there... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJeTd8uV_98)

[mike100]

Just another idea on sealing the PCV F-tube connector against minor vacuum leaks- I use electrical splicing tape- the stretchy kind that self vulcanizes and sticks to itself. rubber to rubber for an air-tight seal and you can trim it off easily when you take it apart.

[Schrade]

Just another idea on sealing the PCV F-tube connector against minor vacuum leaks- I use electrical splicing tape- the stretchy kind that self vulcanizes and sticks to itself. rubber to rubber for an air-tight seal and you can trim it off easily when you take it apart.

Good idea there Mike - that would spread the 'load' better than the zip tie, which concerned me about cutting into the rubber (and ease of removal).

You meaning regular vinyl electrical tape there?

[mike100]

Good idea there Mike - that would spread the 'load' better than the zip tie, which concerned me about cutting into the rubber (and ease of removal).

You meaning regular vinyl electrical tape there?

No, it is industrial high voltage insulation that completely seals out air and moisture when splicing or repairing wire and cable. it is kind of expensive, but I have seen some $5 made in china rolls (to be fair I actually bought those in China so i don't know what else is out there besides the 3M 130C). If you layer it, you can definitely get way way better than 600v of insulation rating too.

http://3mcollision.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/4/1/41717.jpg

[Schrade]

Zipped up AGAIN; started on the 2nd try. Rock steady idle, Closed Loop, throttle cable off to start recording op parameters with incremental throttle stop screw increase.

Another idle vid... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qDwChs9KMw)

Now, learn DataMaster. 92 pages' read.

[Dynomite]

Zipped up AGAIN; started on the 2nd try. Rock steady idle, Closed Loop, throttle cable off to start recording op parameters with incremental throttle stop screw increase.

Another idle vid... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pxv1MdyDI4)

Now, learn DataMaster. 92 pages' read.

Does that mean you got it running and all issues solved?

That sounds PERFECT :thumbsup:

And them Yellow Coolant Hoses :dancing

[Dynomite]

Running perfect? You're kiddin' there Cliff!

Nope, not quite - someone prophesied disaster, and another small setback.


*... OR MELT!!!

http://www.eteamz.com/spotlight_images/images/winners/smiley_fire.gif



Holy Crapola :drunken_s

You R driving me to drinking :p

It sure sounded nice .........

Say.....there.....Mr. Photo professional Person.......removing that alternator or putting one back in without removing Plenum would be interesting :thumbsup:

[Schrade]

Holy Crapola :drunken_s

You R driving me to drinking :p

It sure sounded nice .........

Say.....there.....Mr. Photo professional Person.......removing that alternator or putting one back in without removing Plenum would be interesting :thumbsup:

No damage, except the stud, and the alt paint. Should be spun back up in the AM.

Pulling the alternator with the plenum in place was not hard, but not easy either, without rubbing the paint finish on the alternator.

Remove the 4 bolts, remove the bracket, gear wrench on the output stud (unless it's MELTED), then lift up and toward you, then swing the lower center mounting flange forward over the ? [water pump] mount, and swing IT forward.

[Franke]

No damage, except the stud, and the alt paint. Should be spun back up in the AM.

Pulling the alternator with the plenum in place was not hard, but not easy either, without rubbing the paint finish on the alternator.

Remove the 4 bolts, remove the bracket, gear wrench on the output stud (unless it's MELTED), then lift up and toward you, then swing the lower center mounting flange forward over the ? [water pump] mount, and swing IT forward.

Schrade, Sorry to hear of the incident. Just an FYI. You might want to check the alt wire too as it was probably carrying quite a bit of battery juice. See if the insulation is brittle now.

[Schrade]

Schrade, Sorry to hear of the incident. Just an FYI. You might want to check the alt wire too as it was probably carrying quite a bit of battery juice. See if the insulation is brittle now.

Brittle insulation. Thanks WitchDoctor! Kiss of Death!

On the operating table:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/gRJw27_UNpNqQCCaZHRkxgd7aztFrDUrV6j2D8IhWX8=w1130-h850-p-no

highway fatality / donor (Delco-Remy blood type :mrgreen: ):

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/zCJES1VNG7Sqb7RoW4NiGmGbbIOLmeIhRHhLtWBTmFM=w1130-h850-p-no

organ + recipient - Carbon wire-brushed off heatsink:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/TxI8_Gvk_5dxToSgw8iUbsbsFxVcgiGuKtnTW0xWRCg=w1130-h850-p-no

[Schrade]

Pre-op:

and Deja-Vu. Again :icon_scra

that di-electric grease lit up HOT!

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/NLl8rDxP1vUo0LOFPJYsLNoK-CKVhdRrc1_AbzjdEbw=w1130-h940-p-no

[Schrade]

And another fail - alternator Bench test @ Advance. Might have toasted it...

[scottfab]

.... snip....
Went outside, saw smoke, sparks, and it started to flare. Sprayed it, unplugged the battery, and pulled the alternator. WITHOUT removing the plenum!!!

....snip...

Really sorry to hear this.
However, I too know the feeling.
My first rebuild of the alternator ended in frying one of the diodes.
I know the "sinking" feeling of thinking all was perfect only to see
one tiny little error.
I'm sure you'll be on top of it soon.

[Schrade]

What's up Scott...

At worst, a new alternator. That's what happens when you don't listen to the voice of experience - Franke, in this case... he told me somewhere here, but I dis-regarded it... If you're stupid, you better be rich.

Maybe just a new capacitor, volt regulator, and 'bridge rectifier', in my own case. A $C-Bill + a few...

Found a few places for CS144 innerds - don't know if '90 is EARLY, or LATE style...

Here's EARLY, in case anyone else re-builds:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-VzpjjnJYzs0/UtxzQeqMmLI/AAAAAAAADjw/pz_8ivhTPBk/w981-h1446-no/DR-CS144_Early.pdf-pages.jpg

[scottfab]

What's up Scott...

At worst, a new alternator. That's what happens when you don't listen to the voice of experience - Franke, in this case... he told me somewhere here, but I dis-regarded it... If you're stupid, you better be rich.

Maybe just a new capacitor, volt regulator, and 'bridge rectifier', in my own case. A $C-Bill + a few...

Found a few places for CS144 innerds - don't know if '90 is EARLY, or LATE style...

Here's EARLY, in case anyone else re-builds:



I was telling my son's about "what's up" the other day. They told me that's old school. Nowadays they say "sup" :)
Kinda reminds me of the "#" symbol. I've always known it as the "pound" sign. Now it's being called a "hash tag". Go figure.

We're basking if low 50s and sunshine here in the NW.
Can't ask for much better in the winter.

Rebuilding the alternator is fraught with pitfalls but there are a series of measurements that can be made as you assemble to assure no internal shorts exist.

One mod I did to mine was to put a set screw onto the rear bearing to keep it from spinning at high rpm.

[Franke]

Hey there seems to be another newer saying too. :) Sorry Schrade I didn't mean to jinx ya. :) One thing I noted from your pics was excessive grease that could contaminate the commutator so a suggestion would be to go easy on the dielectric grease on re-assembly. I actually don't use any on the brush assemblies or near rear bearing and have not had any problems. I would consider the money spent on a rebuild toward higher education. :)
Scott, your idea seems to me to have merit as I have seen bearing spin if they are not locked in tight by fit. I like it.

[scottfab]

....snip...
Scott, your idea seems to me to have merit as I have seen bearing spin if they are not locked in tight by fit. I like it.

My theory is that mine was occasionally spinning. The spinning would
make noise that would come and go. Eventually it heated and failed.
The heat caused it to seized and bonded to the housing. Then it was hell
getting it out.
The tapping was quite easy.
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/Portals/0/Images/TechArticle/AlternatorReplace/MVC-441S_JPG.jpg

I'm not sure this link will work (been having some problems) but this is how I rebuilt mine
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/Information/TechNet/Electrical/tabid/113/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/28/Alternator-Rebuild.aspx

[Schrade]

I'll ask the guy doing the re-work there Scott, if he suggests it.

If I do any mod, and it goes belly up, I might be SOL on what-ever warranty I get...

My theory is that mine was occasionally spinning. The spinning would
make noise that would come and go. Eventually it heated and failed.
The heat caused it to seized and bonded to the housing. Then it was hell
getting it out.
The tapping was quite easy.
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/Portals/0/Images/TechArticle/AlternatorReplace/MVC-441S_JPG.jpg

I'm not sure this link will work (been having some problems) but this is how I rebuilt mine
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/Information/TechNet/Electrical/tabid/113/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/28/Alternator-Rebuild.aspx

Anyway here, I did some cleanup (AND DIDN'T SEE ANY SMOKE - BETTER QUIT WHILE I'M BEHIND!!! :mrgreen: I HAVE heard some folks couldn't boil water with BURNIN' IT ).

I found metal under the 'tar', on the suspension hardware. Corner jam is my biggest pet peeve :mad: . The thought of pumping grit into a fitting, in front of new grease, makes my gut do 360's http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/userpics/10404/vomit-smiley-020.gif



https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8y8zDXPvam0/Ut2Op1-Sb2E/AAAAAAAADkM/yiDTkOhIo2w/w1303-h880-p/January202014

[Dynomite]

The thought of pumping grit into a fitting, in front of new grease, makes my gut do 360's


I just bought several of those Zercaps on Ebay......:thumbsup:

I like to cap off my Zerk Fittings also......

ZerKaps (http://www.ebay.com/itm/171216163685?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)

[Dynomite]

Can the IH bolt, that holds the alt rear upper bracket, be loosened, without affecting torque dynamics of plenum / IH??????????????????????

http://smileys.smilchat.net/smiley/seasons/hiver/bleufesse.gif

Yes.......... Just do it :D

Now you know why I was looking for more photos of Alternator Removal without messing with the Plenum ;)
And without messing with Coolant (if you do not have TB Coolant Eliminated through the Plenum) :p

I Double Like your Photo Coverage :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Schrade]

Yes. Just do it :D


Just do it, huh Cliff? Did I ever say I'm from Missouri? You know - the Show-Me state??? You near here?

Anyway, I don't think a socket will go on that bolt, with the INJ as it sits.

The thought of rounding the head off with an Open-End isn't appealing either...

IF Alt removal will work, withOUT plenum movement, the coolant manifold still would need to be removed.

Unless you got a coolant manifold by-pass too :p :p :p

[Schrade]

...and now that I think back here, Jerry did say you could probably loosen the CC Cover bolts 1 @ a time, to re-seal, and not remove it...

http://www.thegamingtailgate.com/forums/images/smilies/Emoticon-Think.gif

[Schrade]

Alternator IN, withOUT moving a THING - not the upper rear alt mount bracket, plenum, anything.

Trick is to insert the alt lower mounting flange into the WP recess FIRST. Then you'll have to spin the impellor to give just a little marginal clearance of the impellor to the OTS.

Then just a little coaxing to get the last alt housing edge under the plenum.

Then put the pivoting bracket into place, Bat+ Output nut on, rear bracket bolt, and you're done.

Time to do a little editing in 'Solutions' there Mr C!!! Vids of removal, and of re-install are uploading to Y/T now.

First one ever to document Alternator removal with plenum in place???

So everything zipped up, pulled the trigger, and she fired up 2nd try. Closed Loop, idle rock steady - AGAIN. And after shutdown, no smoke, sparks, inferNO.

Restrictor gasket is still installed for DataMaster logging. Secondary butterflies just let in a little more air in, which isn't a big deal, but it's IRREGULAR flow, not continuous 100% steady amount. Restrictor gasket will allow for more minute, steady calculations in DM. THEN we can look at what's getting in there...

[Schrade]

Do you have a couple of nice photos of the tight spots when placing or removing the Alternator with Plenum in Place?

And some Bullets on what to watch for and How To Do it?

I will post a Link in -Solutions- In the ZR-1 ELECTRICAL Section as the First Tip under BATTERY AND CHARGING ;)
Title the post "Removing Alternator with Plenum In Place
:p

I always had my Plenum Off so never tried besides if I had to.......just looking at it...prolly would not have tried :sign10:

No snappics Cliff; too chilli for Chuckie.

Removal vid here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCIZZATqTao) You see any stills you want, get the time, and I'll get the frames posted.

Install vid later. Upload time slow with the web crowded Prime Time.

[Dynomite]

Alternator IN, withOUT moving a THING - not the upper rear alt mount bracket, plenum, anything.

Time to do a little editing in 'Solutions' there Mr C!!! Vids of removal, and of re-install are uploading to Y/T now.

First one ever to document Alternator removal with plenum in place???


OK......You DID remove the Air Horn and Throttle Body :p
Was either of those removals necessary?

Now given I can remove the Plenum with Air Horn and TB attached in 10 minutes Removing Plenum (including the 10 minute Plenum Removal) (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-4.html#post1581663365) :sign10:

I will post a Link in -Solutions- In the ZR-1 ELECTRICAL Section as the First Tip under BATTERY AND CHARGING ;)
After you post this Video in YOUR OWN Post or I will just leave it here. Left Click on Photo to watch Schrade Remove his............................................... Alternator :D

I always had my Plenum Off so never tried removing the Alternator by itself without removing anything else.....besides if I had to.......just looking at it...prolly would not have tried it anyway without removing the Plenum :sign10:

Chuckie needs some Chili to warm up....

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/ZR1%20video/th_ZR1alternatorremoval.jpg (http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/ZR1%20video/ZR1alternatorremoval.mp4)

I did remove the Heads one time with engine in car and after Heads were removed I could almost lift out by hand the rest. So pulled the rest simply because Timing the Engine is a lot simpler engine out of car.

[Schrade]

OK......You DID remove the Air Horn and Throttle Body :p
Was either of those removals necessary?Don't know there Cliff; they were both still removed, but I seriously doubt that you could pull the alt with TB in. You really need to see that lower center flange of the alt, to guide it into the recess above the WP.

How do you embed video in your post?



Chuckie needs some Chili to warm up.... Chili? Nuh-uh; need that violin player who plays for your Lord of the Dance outfit!!! http://www.hydrocanna.com/images/smilies/Drool.gif She could Warm my Global / Change my Climate better than a bottle of Guinny Stout ethylene Lager ;)


===================================

Now where's Dom here - when I start with DM logging here, do I need to have the Sec power key on? Or is it already defaulted on, with Marc's chip for sec vac delete?

[Dynomite]

How do you embed video in your post?



I copy your video to my puter and then upload same to Photobucket....then copy IMG Codes and paste into post.

Or more Simply for you now......Right Click on my imbedded Video copy of your video and Left Click Properties....Copy URL Address and paste into your post as IMG Code....

There....now the secret is out :sign10:

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/ZR1%20video/th_ZR1alternatorremoval.jpg

[Schrade]

Looks like someone HAS done removal without plenum pull (http://www.zr1netregistry.com/Information/TechNet/Electrical/tabid/113/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/1702/Alternator-Replacement.aspx), but there's always room for improvement...

install vid... (http://www.zr1netregistry.com/Information/TechNet/Electrical/tabid/113/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/1702/Alternator-Replacement.aspxalt)

Is this bracket the same on my '90, as on Geof180's LT5??? Sure wish someone would have mentioned it to me here...
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/DesktopModules/DnnForge%20-%20NewsArticles/ImageHandler.ashx?Width=125&Height=125&HomeDirectory=%2fPortals%2f0%2f&FileName=Images%2fTechArticle%2fAlternatorReplace% 2faltrem13.jpg&PortalID=0&q=1


Anyway, temps got above freezing, thanks to a little Global Warming, and I played with DM a little here.

Started this thing up, and it fired IMMEDIATELY http://www.zr1.net/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif .

Once it went CL, I did a vid showing incremental increases with the throttle stop screw, and DM readout in the foreground. She's running perfect, although it still shows the hesitation once it goes above 1.6% TO - although it doesn't manifest as a 'hesitation'; more likely just irregular RPM's...

Working on .csv formatted file now here........................

[GOLDCYLON]

I have done it with just the air horn removal. It's easier with the TB out of the way but I only had an Air Horn gasket when my Alternator crapped out.

Yes the smaller alt bracket is the same from MY90 - MY95

[XfireZ51]

I cut a slot into the bracket bolted between the IH and the back of the alternator.

[Schrade]

I cut a slot into the bracket bolted between the IH and the back of the alternator.

What's up Dom...

Not sure I'm followin' ya' on a slot on that rear bracket - what was hitting the bracket when you did it? Bat+ post?

And how do I send ya' the DM .csv file?

And what values can I DELETE here:

Rec Num
Frame Time
Time Stamp
2nd Inj Fuel
TPS %
TPS Volts
STerm-LC
STerm-RC
Fuel Trim Cell
IAC Pos
Idle RPM
Ign Volts
Inj A FPW
Inj B FPW
Inj BPW D-TPS
Inj BPW D-TPS
Inj BPW Left
Inj BPW Right
Inj DC Left Inj DC Right
Knock Count
Left O2 mV
LO2 CCNT
LTerm-LC
LTerm-LP
LTerm-RC
LTerm-RP
MAP
PT Vacuum
Right O2 mV
RO2 CCNT

And any others I need to INCLUDE???

[XfireZ51]

Just send the entire .csv file.

The black 90d bracket with the IH bolt thru it. Can't move the bracket without completely removing the IH BOLT and that won't happen because it runs into the plenum.


What's up Dom...

Not sure I'm followin' ya' on a slot on that rear bracket - what was hitting the bracket when you did it? Bat+ post?

And how do I send ya' the DM .csv file?

And what values can I DELETE here:

Rec Num
Frame Time
Time Stamp
2nd Inj Fuel
TPS %
TPS Volts
STerm-LC
STerm-RC
Fuel Trim Cell
IAC Pos
Idle RPM
Ign Volts
Inj A FPW
Inj B FPW
Inj BPW D-TPS
Inj BPW D-TPS
Inj BPW Left
Inj BPW Right
Inj DC Left Inj DC Right
Knock Count
Left O2 mV
LO2 CCNT
LTerm-LC
LTerm-LP
LTerm-RC
LTerm-RP
MAP
PT Vacuum
Right O2 mV
RO2 CCNT

And any others I need to INCLUDE???

[Schrade]

This vid done with SLOW incremental increases in throttle, using throttle stop screw. Note the erratic reading at about 1:57...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahqv0vs1Y1o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qDwChs9KMw

[Franke]

I see what you are saying. I'm a bit concerned about the right bank fuel (ST/LT) trim not changing much. I wonder if your right bank O2 sensor is lazy or malfunctioning.

[XfireZ51]

Can't tell much of anything w/o the datalog. It seems to be running rich is about all I could make out, then goes lean a bit. You cranked in a awful lot of throttle change.

[Schrade]

I only screwed in the bolt to 2.7% TO.

That's where it smooths back out. Perfect from 0 - 1.6%, shaky from 1.6 - 2.4, then flat again. (which Marc said ALL stockers do)

Gotta' be room for improvement...

[Schrade]

... and I keep thinkin' here Dom ...

You say that as engine comes OFF of idle, control of one of the parameters is passed from 'X', to 'Y'.

Let's say for a moment here, that that is NOT how it works.

Let' say that as rev's increase, EVERY parameter increases linearly (or exponentially) - and that no 'handoffs' occur.

If that were the case, then it would be easy to see a glitch in any one parameter's increase, that allows the rough spot from 1.6%TO, to 2.4%TO (that Marc says is normal).

Stay with me here now...

But since one parameter is interrupted by a handoff, what is the 'buffer', that ensures that the ball doesn't get dropped? Because it DOES get dropped, when the dependency changes.

Is there no dedicated overlapping / buffer parameter? Besides all of the others, of course, that have their own job to do???

If 10 guys are totin' a girder, and 1 guy gets someone to take his place, he's gonna' have to bribe at least 1 of the 9 to do double duty while the swap takes place.

ECM needs coding to make one parameter to compensate - like double fuel, for a moment, to simplify the example here.

[scottfab]

Can't tell much of anything w/o the datalog. It seems to be running rich is about all I could make out, then goes lean a bit. You cranked in a awful lot of throttle change.

Exactly right. It'd be hard enough diagnosing a stock set-up without that data but a modified one? Oh boy.

[XfireZ51]

Based on what Marc has said, there's nothing to see here, move along.

[Schrade]

Based on what Marc has said, there's nothing to see here, move along.

I 'moved along' road test, and it spun up smooth as silk. 28.3 MPG's steady @ 59 on the flat (remember I have the 4L60e). Once I get a 3.07 in the back, with headers + Jeff's [Shrek's] pipes, that should bring it up close to 30+. I had my '94 LT1 just under 33 @ 65 with the turtle gear 2.73, after top end re-work.

Still not happy with the glitch at 1.6 - 2.4%TO, which is noticeable when it shifts light throttle.

Restrictor gasket is still in place as well...............................

Where's Franke here - how do I check 02's for proper reading?

[Franke]

I 'moved along' road test, and it spun up smooth as silk. 28.3 MPG's steady @ 59 on the flat (remember I have the 4L60e). Once I get a 3.07 in the back, with headers + Jeff's [Shrek's] pipes, that should bring it up close to 30+. I had my '94 LT1 just under 33 @ 65 with the turtle gear 2.73, after top end re-work.

Still not happy with the glitch at 1.6 - 2.4%TO, which is noticeable when it shifts light throttle.

Restrictor gasket is still in place as well...............................

Where's Franke here - how do I check 02's for proper reading?

Schrade,
O2 volts-
is the measured voltage (in Millivolts, mV) generated by the O2 (Oxygen) sensor. Will typically range from 100 mV (lean) to 900 mV(rich). For SFI systems, this is divided into left and right side values in Datamaster.
Forget what I said that about your O2's as I went back and looked at the vid again. They are varying as they should be. What I was looking at is the Right side LT count staying at 115 (rich) even thought the ST counts were going lean 130-134 as you increased throttle.

There are guys on this forum much smarter than I am in this arena and maybe they can jump in here but I am curious as to why your LT count on the right side shows to be rich fairly constantly when the left side seems to be about right (126-130) counts. Since this vid is at idle in CL, I think the LT/ST should be about 128 or so to maintain correct AFR.

I am comparing your DM readings to mine. When I had a bad injector on my left bank my INT/BLM histogram showed the LT fuel trim to be constantly rich at 115. After I replaced my fuel injectors both of my LT and ST readings are right around 126 to 130 counts at idle and respond equally when I goose it. Yours doesn't seem to do that in that video.

[XfireZ51]

Just as an FYI, It's not unusual to have a 20 point discrepancy for BLMs between
Left and right banks. You may want to read a bit of my thread on Injector Offset.
Idle presents itself as having the widest gap. Cruise reduces the diff between the 2 banks. Having the correct offsets in the cal also makes a difference here.

[Franke]

Just as an FYI, It's not unusual to have a 20 point discrepancy for BLMs between
Left and right banks. You may want to read a bit of my thread on Injector Offset.
Idle presents itself as having the widest gap. Cruise reduces the diff between the 2 banks. Having the correct offsets in the cal also makes a difference here.


Xfire, I did read all of that when you and another gentleman were discussing the offset for the injectors. You know a lot more about it than I do and I was really intrigued to see the depth you guys went to. I have to say I had exactly the same LT condition that Schrade has in DM and when I replaced that bad injector it was gone. I watched as the BLM and fuel cell changes were better and so I figured that the bad injector was causing the ECM indigestion. Am I wrong on this?

[XfireZ51]

Xfire, I did read all of that when you and another gentleman were discussing the offset for the injectors. You know a lot more about it than I do and I was really intrigued to see the depth you guys went to. I have to say I had exactly the same LT condition that Schrade has in DM and when I replaced that bad injector it was gone. I watched as the BLM and fuel cell changes were better and so I figured that the bad injector was causing the ECM indigestion. Am I wrong on this?

Franke,

All I advocate for is gathering information to make a good diagnosis. I couldn't tell much from viewing Schrade's vid so that's what I said. The disparity in BLMs between L/R banks isn't unusual. The area that Schrade is focusing on, just off idle, is a transition point especially since he has gone to eliminating the secondaries. There's quite a bit in the calibration that could be causing the off idle hesitation. Marc has stated that what Chuck is describing appears to be standard behavior for the LT-5. Is it possible that it's a bad injector? Imagine it is, but how has that been indicated so far? Without getting my hands on it, I can only say I need more data.

[scottfab]

...snip...
I have to say I had exactly the same LT condition that Schrade has in DM and when I replaced that bad injector it was gone. I watched as the BLM and fuel cell changes were better and so I figured that the bad injector was causing the ECM indigestion. Am I wrong on this?

Same here but there were two bad injectors on the same side.
Problem went away with new injectors but not before it toasted the CAT with all that raw fuel. Even with that I almost passed DEQ testing. After the new CAT passed easily.

[Schrade]

Based on what Marc has said, there's nothing to see here, move along.

Not quite here Dominic; he said if I WAS able to fix it, I'd be fixing all 7,000 LT5's.

So there IS a fix.

Problem is, most owners are concerned with 'hammer-down' tune / top end power, and less so with the 'perfect' tune.

That's one reason I've always preached against modifications, at LEAST without baseline specs measured in to START with...

Exactly right. It'd be hard enough diagnosing a stock set-up without that data but a modified one? Oh boy.

We need to see ECM's 'operating system'. I've done SOME coding - batch commands, VBS, in Windows environments; even with second and third order dependencies. But without basic operational sequencing...

And this control hand-off - is it a parallel function? Series function? Or compound function even??? I'm tearin' my hair out on this here!!! http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/Smileys/classic/hairpull.gif

[scottfab]

....snip...

We need to see ECM's 'operating system'. I've done SOME coding - batch commands, VBS, in Windows environments; even with second and third order dependencies. But without basic operational sequencing...

And this control hand-off - is it a parallel function? Series function? Or compound function even??? I'm tearin' my hair out on this here!!! http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/Smileys/classic/hairpull.gif

I don't know that it's ever been posted. (OS listing) I did some development work back in the late 80s using the same CPU as is used on the ECM. It's a motorola varient of the 68HC11. The development setup from Motorola for the 68HC11 came with an OS known as "Buffalo".
The idea was to add your own code to the outside of the OS. I remember it was "message based". Any task that was ready to run then ran and posted "messages" to the OS and/or other tasks.

In the instance of our ZR-1 ECM the only thing the "chip" is used for is for data tables. No executable code resides in it. The executable code is flashed to an eprom internal to the CPU.

Boy, if we could get hold of the internal code listing. It may be possible to optimize it. The internals can be erased and reprogrammed. Seems to me there was a power up mode where a few key pins are looked at as to where to boot from. And an external setting combo of those pins would turn over the first address read to be external. From there one could put some op codes together to read the internal code and push it out the serial line. hmmmm
I could work myself up into a froth of curiosity here. Thing I don't know is if those pins exist and are functional on the actual ZR-1 ECM CPU. It would make sense for them to be deleted or rendered in effective to prevent reverse engineering.

Anyone know anything or someone that may know something?
This needs it's own thread. :p

[tpepmeie]

In the instance of our ZR-1 ECM the only thing the "chip" is used for is for data tables. No executable code resides in it. The executable code is flashed to an eprom internal to the CPU.

That's actually not quite true. The EPROM "chip" contains both the operating instructions/program code as well as the lookup tables. Out of a 32kb EPROM memory, only a small portion of that is the data tables.

It is all able to be extracted and disassembled like any other 68HC11. Knowing what to do with it from that point is a whole different thing. There is the rare occasion to modify the program code. (default to full power mode on MY91+ for example).

I'm not a computer guy, so maybe I didn't get what you were trying to say.

[XfireZ51]

People hack GM ECMs frequently. Some replace code with their own for functionality they are interested in. JEP has disassembled the code from a 91.
The LT-5 code is based on the L-98 $8D Mask ID which is why the 90 Mask ID is an $8E. It explains why we have secondary injector relays and an Ignition Module that acts as a co-ECM controlling the dwell and overall ignition other than timing.
You can go to tunerpro.net and get the bin editor, download a definition file for the LT-5 along w a stock bin file and have a look. Just make sure the mask and bin file match up and are for the same model year.

Todd, you were also someone I was thinking of when writing the above. I agree that there is little need to modify the code if your dealing w basic modifications. Forced induction and things like NOS control is a different story.

[tpepmeie]

Todd, you were also someone I was thinking of when writing the above. I agree that there is little need to modify the code if your dealing w basic modifications. Forced induction and things like NOS control is a different story.

Basic works fine for >700 bhp normally aspirated. :-D Seriously, though if you're looking for NOS control through the ECM, or boost, or traction control, or out of the ordinary things... just get an aftermarket controller. Patching 25-year old assembly code for a very limited application (read-not 4th gen F-body, or Turbo Buicks) is just not worth it.

All IMHO. :cheers:

[XfireZ51]

Basic works fine for >700 bhp normally aspirated. :-D Seriously, though if you're looking for NOS control through the ECM, or boost, or traction control, or out of the ordinary things... just get an aftermarket controller. Patching 25-year old assembly code for a very limited application (read-not 4th gen F-body, or Turbo Buicks) is just not worth it.

All IMHO. :cheers:

Yep.:handshak:

[Schrade]

Basic works fine for >700 bhp normally aspirated. :-D Seriously, though if you're looking for NOS control through the ECM, or boost, or traction control, or out of the ordinary things... just get an aftermarket controller. Patching 25-year old assembly code for a very limited application (read-not 4th gen F-body, or Turbo Buicks) is just not worth it.

All IMHO. :cheers:

Do you really think it's not worth it?

Aren't we hoping to see this YZ Series cars' value approach original sticker prices??? I would surely think that that WOULD make it worth it...

Would a hexadecimal editor allow reading of code? Never used one, but I'm marginally familiar with them. And for the car, I will GET familiar.

I don't know that it's ever been posted. (OS listing) I did some development work back in the late 80s using the same CPU as is used on the ECM. It's a motorola varient of the 68HC11. The development setup from Motorola for the 68HC11 came with an OS known as "Buffalo". Looks like a BIOS version... :confused:
The idea was to add your own code to the outside of the OS. I remember it was "message based". Any task that was ready to run then ran and posted "messages" to the OS and/or other tasks.

In the instance of our ZR-1 ECM the only thing the "chip" is used for is for data tables. No executable code resides in it. The executable code is flashed to an eprom internal to the CPU.

Boy, if we could get hold of the internal code listing. It may be possible to optimize it. The internals can be erased and reprogrammed. Seems to me there was a power up mode where a few key pins are looked at as to where to boot from. And an external setting combo of those pins would turn over the first address read to be external. From there one could put some op codes together to read the internal code and push it out the serial line. hmmmm
I could work myself up into a froth of curiosity here. Thing I don't know is if those pins exist and are functional on the actual ZR-1 ECM CPU. It would make sense for them to be deleted or rendered in effective to prevent reverse engineering.

Anyone know anything or someone that may know something?
This needs it's own thread. :p

YES IT DOES NEED ITS' OWN THREAD.

I think there are a few here who do know it already, who won't post up since it will hamper their revenue source, or it will be an intellectual property issue (but as a TARP bailout funder - i. e.; taxpayer, I'm PART OWNER!!!).

[scottfab]

That's actually not quite true. The EPROM "chip" contains both the operating instructions/program code as well as the lookup tables. Out of a 32kb EPROM memory, only a small portion of that is the data tables.

...snip.....

Well obviously I've been misinformed by a fairly knowledgeable tuner. But then it's all based on threads I remember form the 90s. Thing is I may have been straitened out on this before but forgot AGAIN.

Having OS (not just bios) code available creates an opportunity to not only fully comment out the code but to share openly a control flow diagram.
As for "worth it" or not to make changes? That is in the mind of the doer. As hobbies go, "worth it" has a back seat to interest.
If GM wants to claim "proprietary" on the code. Let them.
I seriously doubt that would happen.
Yes, needs separate thread :-D
Or dust off an old one.

[Schrade]

Alright - I just did another recording, from cold start Open Loop.

It DIDN'T lope between 1.6% TO, and 2.4% TO, as it usually does!!!

Rock steady idle, up to 1.6% TO, turning the throttle stop screw with the 8mm wrench, and it went from 1.6% - to 2.4% TO, withOUT a lope. RPM's bumped up quickly, and backing off with the screw, still couldn't get anything in between, but no big deal.

(it will not register any TO percentage between 1.6 - 2.4 under any circumstances, even tho' TPS voltage goes up smoothly - I don't think that's any issue)

Just then, it went CL, and as usual, it loped from 1.6 - 2.4 TO.

SOME parameter introduced in CL is causing the irregularity from 1.6% TO, to 2.4% TO.


ed.:
Yes - I'm aware that Open Loop readings don't mean much. All the other recordings are in CL. But something need a little closer scrutiny here...

[Schrade]

Wow, never seen that on my car. Voltage is ok then but why the single momentary open loop at initial 1.6-2.4 % tps? It seems as if there is a flat spot on the tps but I think you said you changed it. Correct? Also, have you ever replaced the O2 sensors? One side seems to be lean at idle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl4INfOBUiY @ :36

I just noticed that Franke - that the momentary Open Loop, while it's been in CL for several minutes, DOES CO-incide with the excession of 1.6 % TO.

I'll see if I can replicate that, and get exact data for it...

[XfireZ51]

Why is the TPS% 1.6 at idle? .61v is high for idle.

[Schrade]

Why is the TPS% 1.6 at idle? .61v is high for idle.

It's not idling Dom.

Idle Voltage motor off, Ig ON, TPS is TUNED to 0.54V. Ig ON, motor on, it stays @ .54V.

I'm using a box wrench to bump throttle stop screw, 1/6th turn of the Hex bolt at a time.

And I was doing it SLOWLY, to allow parameters to '0' for that TO %.

TPS voltage, and TO %, in DM, are in pretty tight sync, and are posted in this thread a few pages back.