Tire Balancing?

[Racinfan83]

Another question for Ya'All. Car has a pretty bad vibration over 55mph. Feels like tires out of balance. Took it to one local Chevy dealer here a while back. They balanced tires. Still had vibration. So I took it to another Chevy dealer here last week and had em do it again. Guy said a couple of them were off by 1/2oz. SO - drove it to Chicago and back this weekend and it still shakes like crazy. It's not a harmonic vibration like a loose u-joint or driveshaft would make, and not a side-to-side shaking of the steering wheel either. It is more of an up and down vibration that feels to me like bad tire balance. Tires are Nittos with probably 90% tread - no uneven wear I can see.
Is there a "trick" or special machine required to get these big wheels balanced? I am taking it back to the second dealer (most recent) next Monday to have them redo it. I know on my little Honda daily driver with normal tires - they had to do them 3 friggin times before it was right??? :-x:cry::neutral::confused::confused::confused:

[We Gone]

4 types of balance.
1. static (non spun bubble)
2. single plane (weights on one side or center)
3. duel plane (most common weights on inside & outside)
4. road force. (most expensive done on a Hunter with pressure on the tire)

[Dynomite]

I got these tires at Discount Tire and they installed the tires on the rims and balanced them perfectly......I have had them over 130 and no vibration. I think my tires were spun up to speed on some type of dynamic balancing machine which was covered for safety.

An outside shot......you could be loosing wheel weights going down the road. But to start with after a good balance you would not feel vibration at any speed.

Discount Tire (http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/assignTireVehicle.do?yr=1991&mk=CHEVROLET&selectedModel=CORVETTE&vid=005923)

FRONT............................................. .........................REAR
Nitto NT 555 Extreme Performance..................................Nitto NT 555R Drag Radial
P275/40ZR-17 98W............................................... ......315/35R-17 102V B
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/ZR1%20Modified/NittoNT555.jpg.................................... .............http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/ZR1%20Modified/NittoNT555R.jpg

1. Can you feel if it is front or rear tires/drive train?
2. Jack up the front and see if your wheels feel loose in any way (front wheel bearings).
3. Could be flywheel or clutch...or universal joints in drive shaft.....or U-Joints in short shafts between Differential and rear tires.
4. Or rear wheel bearings (jack up rear and see if rear wheels are loose in any way).
5. I assume the trans is not moving on you in any way (no direct vibration in that area).

6. You might jack up the rear axle and fire it up with a lot of clear space in front. Shift into all gears and see if you have any vibration.
7. Have someone watch the drive train from outside listening for any vibration noise. That would eliminate the front end as the source.
8. Put a hand on all the U-Joints and push side to side looking for play (rotate U-Joint 90 deg and push side to side again).

Then let us know......It could be tire balancing as my Nittos did take a lot of wheel weights but like I say.....Discount Tire installed the tires on my rims and balanced with absolutely NO issues.

When did vibration start? At any time did you NOT have a vibration? Stuff like that may help the guys solve the issues.......

Seems like you got this Z in April 2013.....did it have a vibration from the start?
Did it have the Nittos from the start?

[Racinfan83]

I got it in April and yes it has always had these tires and the vibration. It's hard to tell, just drove 600 miles and was trying to figure it out most of the way, but I think it is worse in the rear. The car only has 18k miles on it - so I guess its possible that it has bearing or driveshaft issues - but I don't really think it's likely. If I get a chance I will check some of these things myself - will definitely check it all when I take it back to dealer. Pretty sure they have stick on weights and they are all right behind the spokes. Tires are Nitto 555 Extremes all 4. My gut says balance issue. I assume the dealers have the state of the art equipment for doing this - but I also know that most of the guys they have do that kind of stuff are the new "grease monkeys" with little experience. Everywhere I have taken this car ( other then Haibecks ;) ) the guys have all been kinda freaked out by the car. Makes me nervous to take it anywhere because I can sense the mechanics are nervous about working on it.... But stuff like this I cant do myself... :o

[Jagdpanzer]

Had the same problem with a new set of GY D3s. Found a shop with a Hunter road force balancing machine and that solved it. Some say its a little pricey but to me it's the best money you can spend to insure the best results out of a new set of tires.

[jimmy b.]

Another question for Ya'All. Car has a pretty bad vibration over 55mph. Feels like tires out of balance. Took it to one local Chevy dealer here a while back. They balanced tires. Still had vibration. So I took it to another Chevy dealer here last week and had em do it again. Guy said a couple of them were off by 1/2oz. SO - drove it to Chicago and back this weekend and it still shakes like crazy. It's not a harmonic vibration like a loose u-joint or driveshaft would make, and not a side-to-side shaking of the steering wheel either. It is more of an up and down vibration that feels to me like bad tire balance. Tires are Nittos with probably 90% tread - no uneven wear I can see.
Is there a "trick" or special machine required to get these big wheels balanced? I am taking it back to the second dealer (most recent) next Monday to have them redo it. I know on my little Honda daily driver with normal tires - they had to do them 3 friggin times before it was right??? :-x:cry::neutral::confused::confused::confused:

Here's the part I don't understand, you had the car at two different dealers and yet neither mechanic was conscientious enough to make sure the vibration was gone before they parked the car. So what did you pay for? Seems to me they could have made more money had they put the effort into determining exactly what is wrong and making additional repairs if that what is needed. I question whether they had a real mechanic do the work or just some young kid instead who basically does oil changes and change tires. Oh and if it was a real mechanic and he probably gets paid flat rate, won't spend any more time than the job at hand pays him. I could spend a week on this "flat rate" topic alone, but that's a thread all by its self at a later time. Now I know there are a lot of great mechanics and I'm not bashing ya's but it pisses me off when some one who can actually afford to take their car to a dealer that they should have the best trained professional hopefully certified people work on their car and they end up with letting crap like this out the door. I put most of the blame mostly on management and the almighty dollar. Ok I'm done ranting but if I was the mechanic and I couldn't get the vibration out I wouldn't be able to sleep till I figured it out thats just me I'm a nut case anyway. Sorry to be so long with this. Back to the case at hand.

If the vibration is felt in the steering wheel only along with the wheels check all front suspension components including the rack assembly for wear.

If you feel the vibration in the seat of you pants check along with the wheels all the drive line, rear suspension components for wear.

A simple easy check to do is jack up each wheel separately (one at a time) just high enough to spin the tire freely and get directly behind or in front depending on front or back and just look at the tire and see if 1 if the tread is running true, 2 the bottom of the tire is running true and square and 3 if the rim and or axle is bent. If any of these wobble or don't run true while you or some one else is spinning the tire this could be part or all of your problem. Could be something as stupid as the tread or an internal belt that has separated or some damage. If there's any type of wobble you'll see it.

just remember one wheel at a time and spin tire by hand... on the rear you probably have to jack both wheels cause the posi rear won't let you spin one tire by, it self with the other on the ground. Just safeguard and block the front wheels ... hope this helps and sorry again about the long post.

jimmy

[Dynomite]

Jimmy........I am with you. If it is still vibrating, spin it around go right back and get your money back or get it fixed :D

[mike100]

I have the same problem on my C6. Stays in balance for a couple of drives and then it all goes bad a week later. At first I considered it to be from infrequent use as the tires might be flat-spotting, but I think sometimes you just get a bad tire...cord separating inside or some kind of defect that allows it to slip on the bead.

maybe you should take a piece of chalk or a wax pencil and mark the rims and tires to see if it slips.

[WVZR-1]

Tires weren't your purchase it seems so you could have issues that aren't correctable with a simple balance or maybe even something that isn't a tire issue. Certainly needs to be considered. Bad tire (construction issue). That needs to be considered for sure. You didn't mention age. There's always the possibility that after considerable miles there's no balance going to correct tires that were run "out of balance" or that weren't true when first mounted. Tires are date coded. How old?

Since you're returning it to the second dealer make notes of weight location and amount using the valve stem as a reference before they start. Mark the tire at the valve stem. If there's an excessive amount of weight used presently have them checked as is BUT before the rebalance ask that the tire be repositioned more appropriately to a better position on the wheel. That's the most frequent step not done by any tire shop and used to be the "first move" by a quality shop. Goodyear used to have a weight maximum and if it exceeded that it was policy that the tire be repositioned and the balance redone or the tire replaced. Wheel problems?

If you asked only that either dealer it's been to that the tires be balanced you likely got what you asked for. If you explained the vibration "at speed" and asked for resolution there needed to be "road tests at speed". Some dealer locations aren't in areas that work well for "road tests" certainly not "at speed". Road test certainly seems to be a requirement here. The comments by "jimmy b." - "Dynomite" seem maybe a little misplaced.

Most dealers now have road force but it's not used for everyday services and balances. Going in maybe it's the responsibility of the owner to either request it or ask what equipment is used. Road force would certainly be the desired because it will certainly find problems with the tire being "true" and will usually indicate construction issues.

Your Honda experience should have maybe been your education!

[Dynomite]

The comments by "jimmy b." - "Dynomite" seem maybe a little misplaced.


:D
That would not be the first time for Dynomite........;)

But...I am sticking with Jimmy on this one (I like his tire spinning analysis) :thumbsup:

And....I would think if the tire runs true on the Balancing machine and is in balance......could be something else going on to check in any event.
Always good practice to check the drive train and other suspension components (including the balance of flywheel and clutch) just to make sure something is not coming apart or something was not previously installed wrong (especially in the drive train).

All the comments about tires in these posts are very informative and I appreciate that....learning something new every day here :handshak:

This car is a bit difficult to analyze since it Came That Way and no one knows the history.

So got to start from scratch.....could be anything....could even be something simple and inexpensive to fix :)

I guess if it does not vibrate in neutral with engine running (say 1000-3000 rpm) car stopped we can eliminate flywheel and clutch :p

One down and 30 to go......LOL...that was easy......LOL

Remembering.......... Tires are Nittos with probably 90% tread - no uneven wear I can see.

[Racinfan83]

All good info! If I get a chance between now and Monday I will jack it up and do some checking. The dealer I last went to and am going back to is right off the Interstate - I guess it was my bad for not taking the car out there afterward - but it was late and I took surface streets home. Not sure what kind of machine they have - thing that bothers me is what I said previously - the tire shop is part of an "express service" department in a totally separate building from the main shop. SO those guys could be "Jiffy Lube" quality wearing a GM uniform...?? If I read the date code right the tires are 2010 mfr.


Your Honda experience should have maybe been your education!

Well - in a sense - because it told me that sometimes it may take more then once to get it right - which = reason why I went from one dealer to another just to see if I could get it right in TWO tries... :o I shoulda jumped on the first dealer when it wasn't right - but I have a tendency to avoid conflict and just avoid the places that screw me...:neutral: I will see what I can check and I will definitely be out in the shop when they do it Monday...

[WVZR-1]

the tire shop is part of an "express service" department in a totally separate building from the main shop. SO those guys could be "Jiffy Lube" quality wearing a GM uniform...?? If I read the date code right the tires are 2010 mfr.


Could be? Might also be very good at what they do! "Jiffy Lube" isn't maybe a very good analogy! Do you have 1st hand experience with a "Jiffy Lube"? Your problem maybe doesn't belong in the tire shop BUT it's certainly the less expensive first attempt at resolution. Their 1/2 OZ comment seems to indicate maybe the first shop maybe didn't do so bad either. If both were done with similar equipment and I'd guess they were.





Well - in a sense - because it told me that sometimes it may take more then once to get it right - which = reason why I went from one dealer to another just to see if I could get it right in TWO tries... :o I shoulda jumped on the first dealer when it wasn't right - but I have a tendency to avoid conflict and just avoid the places that screw me...:neutral: I will see what I can check and I will definitely be out in the shop when they do it Monday...

I believe I'd have had a conversation with the "first" dealer - he might have just taken you for "a ride" and known then the issue you were interested in addressing. The second dealers 1/2 OZ comment again seems to indicate maybe it wasn't a bad balance job. Just sayin'

Are there any other ZR-1 owners in your area? Any C4 owners in your area? Drive their car and it that satisfies you "at speed" swap the wheel/tire combination and see what your car "tells you"!! You mention that you feel it's just the rears so you could maybe just try the rears first.

[BigJohn]

You ever think of having your tires cut??

:cheers:

[WVZR-1]

You ever think of having your tires cut??

:cheers:

Finding someone that "trues tires" might be difficult these days and I believe the width of the tires in question might make that an impossibility. I certainly don't know though. The truing machines that I've seen I don't believe had a table that would do those widths. It's a thought!

If the tires were new and a machine would accommodate the width it's certainly an option but tires at 36 months minimum and maybe closer to 48 with 10% or more tread depth gone?

Tire truing and on car spin balance was part of a "complete alignment" years ago for those that insisted they had problems! I recall time was excessive for these. It's not a "while you wait" and could be cost prohibitive these days.

Truing doesn't correct balance!

[Racinfan83]

Yeah I will check some of this out myself and then see what happens with the dealer on Monday. Guess I'm partly at fault for thinking that tire balancing was easy with today's machines and taking that for granted.
I need to relook at how to read the date codes on the tires - I did look at them a couple weeks ago and the last numbers were 10. So either that's right or I need to look up how to do it for sure.
As to the "jiffy lube" comments - I used that as a general reference. Here in this area those quik lube places hire kids who have little to no mechanical experience. The dealers here are going to the same thing it appears. For example, when I took the Z to the dealer express service last week for the balance - nobody in that entire building - including the "service manager" could even figure out how to get the e-brake off. They had to come ask me. My comments were based on that lack of experience. I think a 20+ year mechanic would have the knowledge to properly balance tires and diagnose a vibration over a 20yr old kid makin $10 an hour and who knows only one way to run the balance machine.?
That may not be the case here - but I have no reason to think otherwise. I saw the guys who did the work at both dealers and neither one was over 23 I bet.
This may end up being something totally different - but I don't have much confidence in these dealers. We shall see what happens I guess......

[taximan]

I had the same problem. Tried everything. Finally broke down and paid the $200+ to have a top of the line dynamic road force balancing done. That cured the problem. If youve eliminated everything else, sounds like thats what you need.

A good sized dealer will have the right machine.

[batchman]

I'm with Jagdpanzer. Road force balance is called for, you'll have to call around. I am sure neither of your dealers did that.

With that mileage that car sat a lot, maybe on those tires. That can make them "square" but usually that works out in the first mile or two. If not it could be a shifted belt, which will balance just fine. Run your hand flat around the perimeter of all 4 tires, you might feel a bubble. Roll the car a little then do it again.

A bent rim will also balance just fine. Can you get it on a lift and spin the wheels?

A road force balance should show up either of those problems.

Good luck,
- Jeff

[WVZR-1]

Judging from the snapshot of the car it has 5-spokes of some branding added, if those are OE/GM wheels there's a good likely hood that the "road force" can get a "wheel pass" - if they're after-market wheels the "road-force" may or may not get a "pass" - the problem with the car could actually be just the way the tire/wheel is bolted to the car, wheel center-bore and the hardware used can certainly contribute. Would a dynamic balance accomplish the task if the wheel/tire is bolted to an adapter rather than just a cone used? Maybe?

The "road-force" will certainly diagnose the wheel/tire compatibility.

You might want to check by zip code and see if the dealer your using actually has the Hunter equipment and if they don't show it here just place a casual call and see if they do "road force" mounting.

http://www.gsp9700.com/search/findgsp9700.cfm

[WARP TEN]

I will second the advice offered by several on a Hunter Road Force balance. You can simply Google "Road Force Balancer" to find a shop near you with one. I did this last spring in Bowling Green after my first long trip in the 95 showed a vibration. First Jim Van Dorn kindly offered to balance them but he did not have the right weights to do if completely. Then I went to S&R Tire Center just off Scottsdale Road which has a Road Force balancer and an experienced tech. They had to spin a couple of tires on the rims to make them balance out properly and also found one tire that was sufficiently out of spec that it could not be fully corrected. I have stock A-molds and Sumitomos that are fairly new. The Road Force work significantly improved the situation and resolved about 90% of the vibration issue. -Bob

[Racinfan83]

I searched that link - and the dealer I took it to has one... hmmmmm...
I wonder if they use that one normally or a different one? Guess I will find out Monday. Gonna try to put her up on stands when I get home from work and check u-joints, half shafts, and all that. Will also spin the wheels to see if anything obvious strikes me. I believe the wheels are factory GM Amolds that someone had black chromed. If not - please tell me - you guys know better then I do!

[WVZR-1]

I searched that link - and the dealer I took it to has one... hmmmmm...
I wonder if they use that one normally or a different one? Guess I will find out Monday. Gonna try to put her up on stands when I get home from work and check u-joints, half shafts, and all that. Will also spin the wheels to see if anything obvious strikes me. I believe the wheels are factory GM Amolds that someone had black chromed. If not - please tell me - you guys know better then I do!

If the wheels are OE/GM there will be casting information on the back-side but even being chromed the "JWL" certification should be visible in the second window of the wheel "clock-wise" from the valve stem. You can be sure they didn't use the "road-force" - that would require almost always the repositioning of the tire on the wheel during the process. You would have remembered the charge for the "service"!

http://www.cartype.com/pics/4034/small/jwl_lexus_rx350_12.jpg

[Dynomite]

That is good stuff right there WVZR-1 :handshak:

If the wheels are OE/GM there will be casting information on the back-side but even being chromed the "JWL" certification should be visible in the second window of the wheel "clock-wise" from the valve stem. You can be sure they didn't use the "road-force" - that would require almost always the repositioning of the tire on the wheel during the process. You would have remembered the charge for the "service"!

http://www.cartype.com/pics/4034/small/jwl_lexus_rx350_12.jpg

[Racinfan83]

Awesome! I will look when I get home - but that JWL looks familiar. I will post up what I find later this evening.... :cheers:

[Racinfan83]

OK - some revelations!
I got it up on stands and checked a lot of stuff. Could not find anything loose that might cause the vibration. I checked the joints on the half shafts, u-joints on driveshaft (best I could without removing exhaust), checked each wheel for loose bearings, front steering stuff, bushings, basically just tried to move anything attached to suspension & drivetrain. Nada. Everything seems fine. Spun each wheel by hand as best I could while looking for runout or anything significantly wobbling. Nope. Took wheels off to make sure they fit the centering ring on the hubs. I don't have a dial caliper - but measuring with a tape measure they are darn close and when you put the wheel on, it seems to slide on there tight.
My date coding on the tires was correct - they were made in July of 2010.
NOW - the wheels are NOT GM wheels. Close knockoffs (and I was told they were GM when I got the car). I took some pics of one of the wheels inside and out.
So now I'm still stumped. Guess we will find out when I take it back to the dealer on Monday.... ;):o

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i178/Racinfan83/Erics%20ZR-1%20Vette/20130925_150145.jpg

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i178/Racinfan83/Erics%20ZR-1%20Vette/20130925_145835.jpg

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i178/Racinfan83/Erics%20ZR-1%20Vette/20130925_145908.jpg

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i178/Racinfan83/Erics%20ZR-1%20Vette/20130925_145916.jpg

[WVZR-1]

OK - some revelations!
I got it up on stands and checked a lot of stuff. Could not find anything loose that might cause the vibration. I checked the joints on the half shafts, u-joints on driveshaft (best I could without removing exhaust), checked each wheel for loose bearings, front steering stuff, bushings, basically just tried to move anything attached to suspension & drivetrain. Nada. Everything seems fine. Spun each wheel by hand as best I could while looking for runout or anything significantly wobbling. Nope. Took wheels off to make sure they fit the centering ring on the hubs. I don't have a dial caliper - but measuring with a tape measure they are darn close and when you put the wheel on, it seems to slide on there tight.
My date coding on the tires was correct - they were made in July of 2010.
NOW - the wheels are NOT GM wheels. Close knockoffs (and I was told they were GM when I got the car). I took some pics of one of the wheels inside and out.
So now I'm still stumped. Guess we will find out when I take it back to the dealer on Monday.... ;):o



Is there only that single placement of weight on each wheel?

[Racinfan83]

No. They have rim weights on them as well (on the inside). Not sure about every one but I know I saw it on a couple - three...

Got some chores to do - be back on in an hour or so...

[tf95ZR1]

FYI another possibility especially if your car sits for a long time:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=42
but this often goes away with driving

[Racinfan83]

FYI another possibility especially if your car sits for a long time:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=42
but this often goes away with driving

Nice link!
This might be a possibility tho I hope not...:( Car is low miles, and I don't know much about it's history. I just put 650 miles on it going up to Marc's and back - with no change in the vibration - so either the flat spotting is not the case - or it is and it is permanent. I was unable to see anything like that while rotating the tires by hand - but it probably wouldn't take much to cause a bad vibration.....
Hopefully they will check all possibilities at the dealer Monday..

[chriskinzel]

One possible idea might be finding a brother close by and swapping wheels/tires for a day. That might eliminate the problem. If you want to come to SLC UT I would be glad to swap for a while!
Chris

[Dynomite]

One possible idea might be finding a brother close by and swapping wheels/tires for a day. That might eliminate the problem. If you want to come to SLC UT I would be glad to swap for a while!
Chris

Now....that right there is a great idea :thumbsup:

And only takes a few mintues to make sure and determine if the issue is tires or drive train/chassis what is otherwise very difficult to isolate :handshak:

I have to remember that one ;)

[Racinfan83]

Yeah if they can't figure it out that will be my next option... If I go to SLC though it will be in a plane....:-D

[WVZR-1]

Are there any other ZR-1 owners in your area? Any C4 owners in your area? Drive their car and if that satisfies you "at speed" swap the wheel/tire combination and see what your car "tells you"!! You mention that you feel it's just the rears so you could maybe just try the rears first.

Something that I suggested a few days ago as a "next" move BUT suggested a drive of the "mule" first to see if it satisfied "the feel". It would be foolish just to swap for the sake of "swapping".


Now....that right there is a great idea :thumbsup:

And only takes a few mintues to make sure and determine if the issue is tires or drive train/chassis what is otherwise very difficult to isolate :handshak:

I have to remember that one ;)

That's been a first or "suggested" move that's been used for years for similar complaints. A new car dealer if smart with a similar complaint should consider it but most often don't. They struggle with multiple attempts to correct issues that often end up with no resolution to the owners issues for several visits.

There's substantially more than "a few minutes" involved. I'd think a drive of the "mule" for maybe thirty or more "at speed" on a similar surface that the OP experiences his issues on first and then the swap and the drive on the same surfaces.

[Dynomite]

Yeah if they can't figure it out that will be my next option... If I go to SLC though it will be in a plane....

I have to ask......did you drive the ZR-1 before you bought it and did the seller mention vibration???

Something that I suggested a few days ago as a "next" move BUT suggested a drive of the "mule" first to see if it satisfied "the feel". It would be foolish just to swap for the sake of "swapping".

That's been a first or "suggested" move that's been used for years for similar complaints. A new car dealer if smart with a similar complaint should consider it but most often don't. They struggle with multiple attempts to correct issues that often end up with no resolution to the owners issues for several visits.

There's substantially more than "a few minutes" involved. I'd think a drive of the "mule" for maybe thirty or more "at speed" on a similar surface that the OP experiences his issues on first and then the swap and the drive on the same surfaces.

but...............would not other chevy wheels (other than ZR-1) work for wheel swapping.....which would make your wheel swapping idea easily implemented?

I can swap a ZR-1 wheel (actually a couple wheels) in a few minutes :p
A 500 lb tractor tire/wheel a bit longer :D

[Racinfan83]

I have to ask......did you drive the ZR-1 before you bought it and did the seller mention vibration???



but...............would not other chevy wheels (other than ZR-1) work for wheel swapping.....which would make your wheel swapping idea easily implemented?

I can swap a wheel (actually a couple wheels) in a few minutes :p
A 500 lb tractor tire/wheel a bit longer :D

I did drive it - but where the car was did not offer easy access to a freeway so I did not drive it "at speed". He didn't mention any vibration.
This was one of those things where he wanted to trade me this car for a Nova I had, I knew no matter what I was getting a better deal, so I kinda just jumped on it. Despite the few problems I have had and the $ I've had to throw at the Z - I still got a better deal and am much happier with this car...=D>
I have a lot of ideas now from you guys - hopefully with these ideas and my extra knowledge in mind - we can sort this out at the dealer on Monday. I will let you know what we find! :cheers:

[WVZR-1]

Your experience Monday might be enlightening and interesting to pass on. You need to do this to make it "educational" for all though.

Make the notes of weight and location on each wheel as they are NOW. Mark the valve stem location on the tire. The balance presently is dynamic and with the sidewall dimensions of the OE sizes the "within" 1/2 OZ would be considered acceptable. For newer tire technology and smaller dimensionally sidewalls the 1/2 OZ dynamically wouldn't fly for some/most.

If you opt for the "road force" and they're accommodating it might be interesting to record the "as mounted" numbers and if they actually do the "road force mount" it might be interesting to record the final numbers, the new weights and locations but also the new location of the tire in relationship to the valve stem. The "road force" might not even give the tire/wheel a pass.

I'm going to guess that a tire purchase is in your near future. Maybe tires/wheels? Your present combination I would think might sell easily.

Here's a very good read regarding tire/wheel "matching" technology:

http://www.micropoise.com/

They also do complete balance equipment used in most every industry.

[Racinfan83]

I will do what I can. Not sure what rules they have about me being out in the shop and such - but I will do my best to get as much info as possible and put it up here. Thank You for all the help!

[efnfast]

My tire guy does "road force balancing" for me all the time. Is this really a perk? Did someone say $200 for this service?

[WVZR-1]

My tire guy does "road force balancing" for me all the time. Is this really a perk? Did someone say $200 for this service?

Road force is actually a "mounting procedure" and a complete mount and the balance I believe is generally $20 or more per BUT often that's IF the tire needs relocated on the rim to accomplish the task. I would imagine a repeat customer would often get treated differently.

It's also a very good "diagnostic tool" when chasing situations similar to the OP's or any tire/wheel problem. New tires are generally marked with a "dot" for the mounting guy to use as a reference for the mount and then it's usually just a simple "dynamic" balance using the same machine maybe but less the "force" check. How much is a "road force" with used tires if the relocation on the wheel is required? We might know Monday. Most balancing equipment has the capability to locate the tire on the wheel more appropriately when used for such a purpose.

Road force is likely the "diagnostic tool" needed here with two dynamic attempts apparently not satisfying the OP. A perk? I'd say yes. Your relationship with the "tire" guy I'd say has earned you the perk. He's interested in keeping you happy and "returning"!

[Racinfan83]

FYI another possibility especially if your car sits for a long time:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=42
but this often goes away with driving

Your experience Monday might be enlightening and interesting to pass on. You need to do this to make it "educational" for all though.

Make the notes of weight and location on each wheel as they are NOW. Mark the valve stem location on the tire. The balance presently is dynamic and with the sidewall dimensions of the OE sizes the "within" 1/2 OZ would be considered acceptable. For newer tire technology and smaller dimensionally sidewalls the 1/2 OZ dynamically wouldn't fly for some/most.

If you opt for the "road force" and they're accommodating it might be interesting to record the "as mounted" numbers and if they actually do the "road force mount" it might be interesting to record the final numbers, the new weights and locations but also the new location of the tire in relationship to the valve stem. The "road force" might not even give the tire/wheel a pass.

I'm going to guess that a tire purchase is in your near future. Maybe tires/wheels? Your present combination I would think might sell easily.

Here's a very good read regarding tire/wheel "matching" technology:

http://www.micropoise.com/

They also do complete balance equipment used in most every industry.

WELL - after 37 replies and lots of thought that went into this thread - the result is a bit anticlimactic. :neutral:
I will say that we have two "winners" on what the problem was - and their winning posts are above... =D>
They did the "road force balance" this time - and the results are in. "Tires failed road force balance test - new tires ordered"...
The tires were bad, evidently have "flat spots" on them. I was not allowed to go into the shop - and the guys were extremely busy so I was unable to get specifics. I was really starting to wonder if this was gonna be the result - especially after I pulled all 4 wheels and checked all the weight placements yesterday - and they were real close to where they were the first time.
Proves that we have some really smart guys here on the forum - who know their stuff! I might have had more of a problem with the whole thing were it not for your guy's input. :cheers: Thank You! :icon_thum

[tf95ZR1]

And I win ......

a LT-5 415!

:cheers:

Oh wait, split the award means a 207.5

Thanks anyway.

:cry:

PS: I wish it was smarts. I'm not in the same league as some
of the guys here. Experience. Getting Older. That's it.

[Racinfan83]

And I win ......

a LT-5 415!

:cheers:

Oh wait, split the award means a 207.5

Thanks anyway.

:cry:

PS: I wish it was smarts. I'm not in the same league as some
of the guys here. Experience. Getting Older. That's it.

A 207.5 to put in a CHEvette.... :p
Actually that might be pretty fast....:dancing

All jokes aside - I do appreciate the help and the experience. One of these days I will learn more and more about this car and be able to help others instead of always asking questions.... :o:cheers:

[WVZR-1]

OP - you're the only "winner" here because likely your aggravation will be behind you. It would be good if it is. Did you buy tires through the dealer?

The "learning experience" for all here needs to be that a "relationship" maybe with a tire guy can be very valuable.

I'm disappointed that the dealer maybe didn't offer up a more "personalized" experience but Monday's are "busy". Middle of week might have offered up a different experience.

Not all of us have maybe the lesser threshold for chassis harmonics -

[Racinfan83]

Yeah I think it has to do with the insurance or something. Its ok - it will be right when it gets done. They are gonna call me when the tires come in. And I learned a lot more stuff about the car - and while I had it up on stands I torqued the oil pan bolts. So I got something accomplished :dancing. Thank you for all your help on this thread!

[WVZR-1]

Yeah I think it has to do with the insurance or something. Its ok - it will be right when it gets done. They are gonna call me when the tires come in. And I learned a lot more stuff about the car - and while I had it up on stands I torqued the oil pan bolts. So I got something accomplished :dancing. Thank you for all your help on this thread!

I realize that this thread is old but there was a post on the CF today that explained his "personal experience" on his own C4 with a "road-force" operation and he's an "employee there" it seems to reinforce my comments as to "tire rotation on the rim" as I mentioned and no one it seems offered as a possible solution to your situation. It's "first hand" information and I believe informational. He never mentioned brand and since he was able to achieve a 4 lb "force" I'd guess he was made happy.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1585977956-post3.html

Does it mean you should still have a conversation? For you to decide I guess. With no records recorded other than "tires failed" I'd say maybe someone just didn't want to be bothered. The thread indicates what I mentioned - not always a breeze.

[Racinfan83]

That is definitely some good info there!
And I dunno what I want to do now. I could take it to another shop in the spring that does "Road Force" and spend the $ for it - but if they come up with the same result - "tires failed" - I am then out over $100 to find out the same thing the dealer told me. And if the dealer failed the tires once - chances are they either 1 - would not even do it, or 2 would halfarse do it and come up with same result. So I don't think they are a good option...
I like those Vred's - but the $950 is a bit (lot) steep for me. I was looking at the most recent tire thread the other day - and saw the Nitto 555/555r combo deal at under $600. As ticked off as I was at Nitto and the :censored: tech guy there who screwed me (and the tire shop who ordered the tires) - with my financial situation I may have to bite the bullet and order this one just because of PRICE.
I guess what I'm saying is that I could just spend $600 and have new tires with a warranty - OR take a 50/50 chance on spending up to a couple hundred for another RF balance that may either work, or confirm the first finding - and then I'm out a couple hundred $ PLUS the $600 for new ones.
This whole thing has about driven me to the looney bin.....:cry:

[Schrade]

Some vehicles have a phase balance in the driveline hardware. Pull a D/Shaft, or Half/Shaft, and re-install 180', and it's OUT of balance...

[Racinfan83]

Good idea - but I don't think any of that has ever been apart. I don't know this for certain - but I don't think with 17k miles on it when I got it there would ever have been a reason to remove any of it?