View Full Version : Brakes That Will Stop A Freight Train
Dynomite
09-23-2013, 08:28 PM
ZR-1 (90' and 91') Wilwood Rotors and C4 to C5-Z06 Front Brake Conversion with A-Molds
Specific Brake Parts by Wilwood (http://www.wilwood.com/)
see ZR-1 (90' and 91') Wilwood Rotors and C4 to C5-Z06 Conversion (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-3.html#post1581564033)
The KEY Element is the offset of the Rotor to match the offset of the Caliper Bracket.
1. Rotors.
Wilwood SRP Drilled Performance rotors 12.8 inch diameter and 1.25 inch width with 12x7.06 Rotor Bolt Circle (160-7744-BK RH and 160-7745-LH).
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite2/7858eaf2-2328-4c61-8c95-9801a21b97a7.jpghttp://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite2/b83594a6-c39c-4ff8-bf90-34f9721db6e3.jpg
2. Hats.
Two Wilwood Big Brake short offset (offset 1/4 inch) hats with 5x7.45 Wheel Stud Circle and 12x7.06 Rotor Bolt Circle (#170-7746) will fit the Wilwood SRP Drilled Performance Rotors.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite2/1b088f5f-73f8-422f-ab21-e139bd870ff3.jpghttp://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite2/f279f8f3-8ee1-4919-9d4d-1a2b3f093de9.jpg
3. Brake Pads.
Four (4) 15Q-8012K PolymatrixQ pads for a C5-Z06 (Wilwood is souce).
4. C5-Z06 Calipers and Brackets.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/8C08E4B2-83A5-4FF1-AE3C-F9413D345D0E-2329-0000036615E90410_zpse864dc35.jpg
C5-Z06 Calipers Ebay (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3984.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.XC5+Z06+C alipers&_nkw=C5+Z06+Calipers&_sacat=0&_from=R40)
C5-Z06 Caliper Brackets Ebay (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.Xc5+co rvette+caliper+brackets&_nkw=c5+corvette+caliper+brackets&_sacat=0&_from=R40)
5. Bracket Bolt Kits.
#14121 (Caliper Guide Pin) and Brake Hardware Kit (spacers and seals) #H5634Q at O'Reilly Auto Parts.
6. Adapters.
(Corvette C4 to C5-Z06 conversion brackets, late spindle) C4 to C5-Z06 Conversion Adapters (Ebay) (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=C4+corvette+C5%2FZ06++brake+adapter&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.XC4+corvette+ C5++brake+adapter&_nkw=C4+corvette+C5++brake+adapter&_sacat=0)
7. SS Brake Lines.
C5 SS Brake Lines (Ebay) (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.XC5+CO RVETTE++STAINLESS+STEEL+BRAKE+HOSE+KIT+TEFLON+&_nkw=C5+CORVETTE++STAINLESS+STEEL+BRAKE+HOSE+KIT++&_sacat=0&_from=R40)
8. Adapter Washer Spacer.
One Washers (about 1/16 inch thickness are used on each of two adapter bolts) between the Adapter and
Wheel Assembly. This setup centered the calipers on the rotors having 1/4 inch offset.
9. Wheel Dimensions that will fit on this brake Set-Up.
see ZR-1 (90' and 91') Wilwood Rotors and C4 to C5-Z06 Conversion (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-3.html#post1581564033)
Franke
09-23-2013, 08:38 PM
Dyno, Very nice setup. Watch out for the guy behind you with standard brakes:).
XfireZ51
09-23-2013, 09:02 PM
Nice rotors. Wonder if they make any for C6Z disks w stock offset? Those C6 disks are HEAVY!
Kevin
09-23-2013, 09:07 PM
Nice rotors. Wonder if they make any for C6Z disks w stock offset? Those C6 disks are HEAVY!
ron and I picked up the c6 z disks and were shocked by how heavy they were
ZZZZZR1
09-23-2013, 09:16 PM
OMG. Love it Cliff!
How much for C6 Z06?
Where did you get those, they are gorgeous!!!!
:cheers:
David
XfireZ51
09-23-2013, 09:18 PM
ron and I picked up the c6 z disks and were shocked by how heavy they were
Pretty massive. No way those babies are warping. Don't forget, they're 14" across.
mike100
09-24-2013, 02:59 AM
It has been so long since I changed over...What are your impressions from J55 to C5 brakes?
and those are some trick a55 rotors you got there. I thought my black anodized EBC slotted units were pimp.
Dynomite
09-24-2013, 06:08 AM
It has been so long since I changed over...What are your impressions from J55 to C5 brakes?
and those are some trick a55 rotors you got there. I thought my black anodized EBC slotted units were pimp.
I have this same Wilwood SRP Drilled Performance Rotor brake set up on my 91' and I can tell you there is no fade.
Also the Bearing Hub does not see near as much heat on a high speed stop.
The trick with the Wilwoods is the Hat. As you can see there is limited transfer of heat possible from the Rotor to the Hat. That keeps the Hub cooler than a solid mass Rotor/Hub. So the front end Hub Bearings do not see near as much heat when I stop in my relatively short 1/4 mile runouts from 120 mph :p
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite2/b83594a6-c39c-4ff8-bf90-34f9721db6e3.jpghttp://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite2/1b088f5f-73f8-422f-ab21-e139bd870ff3.jpg
I will let you know when I get these installed on my 90' how pimp they are after a few 1/4 miles high speed stops :D
rkreigh
09-24-2013, 08:43 AM
love the wilwood stuff. I have the 6 piston superlight calipers and 14" rotors on the c5. stops so hard it will make your eyes pop out and tough flap horizontal
I like the Baer alcon on the LSV, but they are 4 piston calipers, and the 13" rotors are toast. worn so much the grooves are GONE
I worried about it until I called Baer, the rotors are so thick that shaving that much in wear off either side is no issue. I was above the min recommended thickness even with all the wear
however, they will need to be replaced soon. looking hard at this rotors. very nice stuff! I want the silver plating though.
batchman
09-24-2013, 06:44 PM
I lust for hat rotors in j55 size but I can't find a recipe. Your brake porn is a natural progression from there...
Congrats, nice setup.
- Jeff
Very nice D-Mite, looks great.
Jitse
09-25-2013, 07:11 AM
Those Baer eradispeeds come with an allum. Hub too, ( out of my mind).
And available to fitt your J55 calipers.
But I like this Wilwood rotors too, is price and quality similar?
Jitse
rkreigh
09-26-2013, 08:20 AM
like to see if these have a similar offset to the BAER Alcon setup I have now. my rotors are toast and need replacing
I think the wilwood are both cheaper and nice than the BAER stuff
Locobob
09-26-2013, 04:03 PM
like to see if these have a similar offset to the BAER Alcon setup I have now. my rotors are toast and need replacing
I think the wilwood are both cheaper and nice than the BAER stuff
I have the same Alcon kit and have been talking with Hoerr Racing about refurbishing, they quoted me about $170 per for Coleman rotors but they want to see the rotors first hand to be sure. The Wilwoods look great Cliff.
POWERBRAKEBOB
10-14-2013, 01:47 PM
Those are beauties. However, one of the weaknesses of the C4 brakes is the Australian booster and master. The Dual dia vac booster is a huge improvement over the plastic booster. The problem here is the 7/8" master cylinder.
The piston size in the calipers is small. The C5 calipers are much larger pistons. Nice, but that requires a larger master cylinder to provide the needed volume. C5's and C6's used 1" masters. The bolt pattern on the C4 boosters does not allow for master cylinder upgrading.
Installing these large calipers without the 1" master and Delco dual dia booster GM needed to APPLY the larger calipers leaves you with a low mushy pedal.
Baer brakes made brackets years ago to install C4 calipers on Camaros thinking that was going to work for high powered stopping. It didn't. The 1.125" master used on Camaros and Chevelles could not spike the pressure high enough to improve the stopping power.
I met a guy years ago, that had installed twin calipers at each front wheel on his ZR-1. He complained that he had to pump the pedal twice each time to stop the car.
Her, I believe is the solution. The Bosch Hydroboost. It can accommodate any size GM master. I used a 1" here, because the booster has so much power.
Many experts think you just keep drilling holes in rotors or keep increasing the rotor diameter until absurdity.
Not so. PRESSURE is what stops the car. When a jetliner lands, you FEEL the brakes apply. HARD. Pilot is only on them for a few seconds at 160MPH.
In a car, if the rotors are overheating, the pressure is TOO LOW.
It's like pulling a rope thru your hands. It's going to keep burning until you squeeze it hard enough to stop the slipping.
Half way applying pads against a spinning rotor is much the same.
mike100
10-14-2013, 03:36 PM
The power steering is already kind of taxed on the C4- how much pressure will the hydro-boost use when not actually braking?
-=Jeff=-
10-14-2013, 03:42 PM
The piston size in the calipers is small. The C5 calipers are much larger pistons. Nice, but that requires a larger master cylinder to provide the needed volume. C5's and C6's used 1" masters. The bolt pattern on the C4 boosters does not allow for master cylinder upgrading.
You can install a 1" Master from a 98-later F-body on the ZR-1 it will bolt up.. needs a spacer (or the end drilled) to get it just right.
So with some of these guys doing C6 Z06 brakes all around, what Master do you suggest? will a 1" be enough?
THEN, which master is correct as you want to be sure the bias is correct front to rear too right?
Dynomite
10-15-2013, 09:18 AM
Just got done installing this Wilwood Rotor and C5 Z06 Brake Calipers on my 90'. All fits perfectly identical to the same set up on my 91' :thumbsup:
So.....this Wilwood Rotor and C5 Z06 Caliper Brake set up has been confirmed to fit perfectly twice. :p
ZR-1 (90' and 91') Wilwood Rotors and C4 to C5-Z06 Conversion (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-3.html#post1581564033)
Wheel Weights and Sensor Cable Bracket.
a. I had to move wheel weights as there is only 1/8 inch clearance between inside of wheel hub and C5-Z06 calipers.
b. The wheel sensor cable bracket was twisted just a bit. This assures clearance between the wheel sensor cable and the SS brake line at maximum steering angles.
Wheel weights that were between spokes moved .......Weel weights in line with a spoke moved inside spoke
inside two adjacent spokes
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite2/37427d58-f0be-4401-beb1-34199308ab1a.jpghttp://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite2/2b80e75d-3869-4285-9c64-9315a2c5534b.jpg
90' Brake Upgrade to C5-Z06 with Wilwood Rotors.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite2/3c9321e8-8453-4636-aec9-1d1519ed80c5.jpghttp://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite2/f4a75a76-de8b-4881-9663-cacb4e9ee376.jpg
Locobob
10-15-2013, 04:36 PM
I don't get it... why the close clearance issue? How is this different than a typical C4 to C5 brake conversion clearance wise? Isn't the rotor the same size - 12.8?
Dynomite
10-15-2013, 08:23 PM
I don't get it... why the close clearance issue? How is this different than a typical C4 to C5 brake conversion clearance wise? Isn't the rotor the same size - 12.8?
Must be the Caliper :p
What is a typical C4 to C5 brake conversion?
What Offset, What Adapters, What Brackets, What Calipers, What Rotors????
I had a single layer of weights about 1/16 inch - 1/8 inch thick just inside of the spokes and they hit the ribs of the C5 Z06 Caliper (the stock C4 Caliper did not have that interference issue). You can see in the photo the tight fit of the C5 Z06 caliper inside the wheel. The face of the Caliper to spoke clearance was maybe 1/4 inch. Spacers on the Hat could be used to make that spoke clearance greater (with no change in adapters or Rotor offset).
I would call that close clearance given the caliper slides on pins of the bracket :p
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite2/89662f3a-f722-4131-a89e-e73e118729f7.jpg
HAWAIIZR-1
10-16-2013, 08:19 AM
Thanks Cliff. It looks friggin awesome. I wonder if I can fit this set up in Dymag Gen IIs? Man, I love the wheels but limited on brake upgrade options. What do you plan for the rear?
Dynomite
10-16-2013, 09:17 AM
Thanks Cliff. It looks friggin awesome. I wonder if I can fit this set up in Dymag Gen IIs? Man, I love the wheels but limited on brake upgrade options. What do you plan for the rear?
Nothing for the rear......
Some measurements for you.....keeping in mind this set up left about 1/8 clearance on radius and about 1/4 inch clearance to the spokes of the wheel.
You can measure your wheels and compare to the measurements I have here knowing the clearance of this set up to these wheels.
A. Spoke Offset.
The Spoke Offset from hub surface is 1 inch at the widest part (outer edge) of the Caliper.
The wheel weights are located on the inner rim and single stacked.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite2/328395c8-bff3-4a0c-b32a-17f5166cd82d.jpghttp://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite2/ca443187-2861-46bf-964e-4d96f30eb870.jpg
B. Wheel inner diameter.
Two Inner wheel diameters are shown. The one on the left is the wheel diameter at the hub surface which is 15.25 inches (this would coincide with the the radius of the outer part of the caliper) . The Second wheel diameter on right is the wheel diameter at 4.5 inches up from the spoke where the inner (larger radius) part of the caliper which is larger radius sits which dimension is 15.75 inches.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite2/810ad20f-b469-47b9-8ad7-c85ed5358461.jpghttp://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite2/fa3b1a67-4a5e-4e0f-9786-954aa512f06f.jpg
Locobob
10-16-2013, 05:12 PM
Must be the Caliper :p
What is a typical C4 to C5 brake conversion?
What Offset, What Adapters, What Brackets, What Calipers, What Rotors????
I guess I was assuming that most of the C4 to C5 caliper brackets are designed to be used with a stock dimension rotor - does this Wilwood rotor match a stock application dimensionally or is it its own thing?
Dynomite
10-16-2013, 05:22 PM
I guess I was assuming that most of the C4 to C5 caliper brackets are designed to be used with a stock dimension rotor - does this Wilwood rotor match a stock application dimensionally or is it its own thing?
The Stock C5 Caliper Bracket is attached to the Adapter.....not the stardard location on the wheel Hub Assembly. The C4 Caliper Bracket is different I am sure but have to check. It is C5 Caliper Brackets I am using in this conversion.
The WIlwood Rotors are 12.8 inches diameter but the Hat is selectable......making the Wilwood Rotors different than a stock C4 Rotor regarding Offset. A stock C4 Rotor is 12.8 inches diameter and the offset is 1-1/8 inch.
My Wilwood Rotors with Hats have an offset of 1/2 inch. This particular Offset works perfectly with the C4 to C5 Brake Adapters you find on Ebay as long as they have the recessed area for the Caliper Bracket Connection to the Adapter. I received a set of adapters from FlynBye (http://www.flynbye.com/) that did not have the recess and they would not work.
With that greater Offset using stock Rotors the Caliper is significantly further away from the spokes than my C5 Z06 Calipers which have 1/4 inch clearance to the spokes.
Dynomite
10-17-2013, 02:38 PM
Took a ride (finally) in my 90' with the New Wilwood Rotors and C5 Z06 brakes.....WOW....so smooth and so much braking power....definitely can lock up the wheels if I had to and risk loosing it entirely :D
NO Brake FADE at all at least with a quick stop from 90mph :thumbsup:
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite2/89662f3a-f722-4131-a89e-e73e118729f7.jpg
GOLDCYLON
10-17-2013, 02:50 PM
I wonder if I can get away with this with my Baer Eradispeeds 13inch Rotors?
mike100
10-17-2013, 03:54 PM
The C5 rotor abutment bracket location and the thickness of the C5 caliper won't fit over the top of a 13" rotor I don't think.
-The C5 rotors, although about .2 inch smaller diameter- are a lot thicker and the pad size is much larger too.
-the C5 rear brake is the same diameter as the C4 J55, but it is also thicker and isn't a plug and play with J55 rear calipers.
-C5 and C6 brake pads (for non Z06) are the same part btw.
GOLDCYLON
10-22-2013, 10:49 AM
The C5 rotor abutment bracket location and the thickness of the C5 caliper won't fit over the top of a 13" rotor I don't think.
-The C5 rotors, although about .2 inch smaller diameter- are a lot thicker and the pad size is much larger too.
-the C5 rear brake is the same diameter as the C4 J55, but it is also thicker and isn't a plug and play with J55 rear calipers.
-C5 and C6 brake pads (for non Z06) are the same part btw.
C5 front rotors are 13 inch
mike100
10-24-2013, 01:01 PM
C5 front rotors are 13 inch
They are smaller than the J55 front. I say 12.8"
XfireZ51
10-24-2013, 01:12 PM
They are smaller than the J55 front. I say 12.8"
Agree. Slightly smaller diameter but much thicker rotor. The C6Z rotors are massive. I don't believe they would ever warp in normal passenger car use.
GOLDCYLON
10-24-2013, 02:09 PM
What about with C5/C6 front Baer eradispeeds? Anybody done that setup yet? GC
bamawrx
10-24-2013, 05:55 PM
Has anyone checked to see if 90 or 91 wheel would clear this setup?
ZZZZZR1
10-24-2013, 08:10 PM
Has anyone checked to see if 90 or 91 wheel would clear this setup?
Guaranteed not to fit 1990 or 1991 wheels without spacers
You would need 1994/1995 A-molds to run this brake setup. (Without spacers)
:cheers:
David
Dynomite
10-24-2013, 10:29 PM
Guaranteed not to fit 1990 or 1991 wheels without spacers
You would need 1994/1995 A-molds to run this brake setup. (Without spacers)
:cheers:
David
David............I would say the A-Molds I used on both a 90' and 91' are absolute minimum wheel geometry to fit this C5 Z06 Brake Conversion. I measured the key geometry elements which should make it possible for anyone to check their own wheels with the same measurements.
Dimensions of wheel that BARELY fits over this C5 Z06 Brake Conversion Using Wilwood Rotors (http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?p=185444#post185444)
Dynomite
10-30-2013, 12:30 PM
LED Tail Lights are ON.........just making sure someone behind can see me when I apply the BRAKES :p
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite3/74ad1ea7-af3b-4b72-bb27-81f2559aa261.jpg
GOLDCYLON
10-30-2013, 12:35 PM
LED Tail Lights are ON.........just making sure someone behind can see me when I apply the BRAKES :p
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite3/74ad1ea7-af3b-4b72-bb27-81f2559aa261.jpg
Now have Jeff make you the -=JEFF=- LED CHMSL !!!!
By the way SCHWEET
Also Cliff its gotta be getting cold..... Any OWL signs .......
Dynomite
10-30-2013, 12:53 PM
Now have Jeff make you the -=JEFF=- the LED CHMSL !!!!
By the way SCHWEET
Also Cliff its gotta be getting cold..... Any OWL signs .......
:p The Owls live in one of my sheds that has open doors so they can fly in and out. They keep all the mice in check ;)
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/A%20Babes/Owls.jpg
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