Stranded.Is it VATS?

[Mitsumark]

Fellas,This car (91Z)seems to dislike me..I'm stuck about 9 miles from home with a no start issue..Jumped in the car to go to the store,everything was fine until I came out of the store 10 min later.There were absolutely no issues before this incident.Ive already confirmed the battery is fully charged.When I put the key in with the clutch down as usual,I get all the dummy lights on the dash as I should..But no crank at all..No cranking at all..I start thinking about my old 3rd Gen TA days and problems with the VATS..If memory serves me right,if there was a problem with the VATS,the security light would continue to blink even when trying to start..In my case now it blinks upon door entry and with the key inserted into the ignition..Once I turn it to the run position to attemp to start it goes out..If there was a problem with the VATS,wouldn't the light continue to blink?My tach slightly jumps and I'm pretty sure I can hear the fuel pump prime..But there is no starter action.Not even a click..I had my wife drive out the spare key..No dice..Please help..

[vilant]

Could be the clutch switch, there is a way to bypass it. Let me look.

[XfireZ51]

Wait a bit longer. Try pumping the clutch. Hold it down completely.
Welcome to the club.

[Kevin]

Pull driver’s side hush panel.
Locate striped purple wire that goes to clutch switch.
Look at switch and note the color of wire coming back up.(Yellow??)
If you found them—the jumper will go from the Yellow to the purple stripe. You be able to jumper them right there without messing with that ##*!!$ clutch switch.
I used a 3 in #12 wire with terminals (from Radio Shack number 64-3133) on the end and unplugged the wires going to switch and plugged in the jumper wire.

[XfireZ51]

Pull driver’s side hush panel.
Locate striped purple wire that goes to clutch switch.
Look at switch and note the color of wire coming back up.(Yellow??)
If you found them—the jumper will go from the Yellow to the purple stripe. You be able to jumper them right there without messing with that ##*!!$ clutch switch.
I used a 3 in #12 wire with terminals (from Radio Shack number 64-3133) on the end and unplugged the wires going to switch and plugged in the jumper wire.

I made this jumper permanent on mine. PITA to replace clutch switch.

[vilant]

They beat me to it, lol. Hopefully that gets you up and running.

[ALZR1]

Fellas,This car (91Z)seems to dislike me..I'm stuck about 9 miles from home with a no start issue..Jumped in the car to go to the store,everything was fine until I came out of the store 10 min later.There were absolutely no issues before this incident.Ive already confirmed the battery is fully charged.When I put the key in with the clutch down as usual,I get all the dummy lights on the dash as I should..But no crank at all..No cranking at all..I start thinking about my old 3rd Gen TA days and problems with the VATS..If memory serves me right,if there was a problem with the VATS,the security light would continue to blink even when trying to start..In my case now it blinks upon door entry and with the key inserted into the ignition..Once I turn it to the run position to attemp to start it goes out..If there was a problem with the VATS,wouldn't the light continue to blink?My tach slightly jumps and I'm pretty sure I can hear the fuel pump prime..But there is no starter action.Not even a click..I had my wife drive out the spare key..No dice..Please help..




It sounds like A sstarter is out.This has happened to before.
if you open the hood locate that wiring harness riight by the ECM and find the purple wire that is used for the starter you'll have to strip some of the sheathing from that and A power wire (+) jump the two (make sure you have the car in neutral it will start.

AL.

[Dynomite]

Permanent fix......Install the Starter Solenoid Relay and Clean the Starter Solenoid contacts.....

Semi Permanent fix.........Get my tow adapter and just have someone with your short tow rope you carry tug you for about 20 feet and pop the clutch in second with key on.....and away you go.....

Temporary fix.........Get two guys if you are on the level to push you by hand for about 20 feet with key on and pop the clutch in second gear.

Wait a bit longer. Try pumping the clutch. Hold it down completely.
Welcome to the club.

Do what XfireZ51 says......

Oh....ya....I am no longer in that club....because I implemented the Permanent fix as well as the Semi Permanent fix as a backup :D

[Mitsumark]

Thanks for the ideas so far.. I've left the car where it is for tonight.I will have to go at it again tomorrow after work..So it seems so far that it doesn't sound like VATS as the security light goes out once attempting to start.?Id be very surprised if it was the starter as usually with a bad starter you would usually get a click or grind..I can't even hear a click.The starter is only a yr old too..I know that doesn't matter..I'm thinking the clutch switch..I'll keep you guys posted..Thanks so much..

[Dynomite]

Thanks for the ideas so far.. I've left the car where it is for tonight.I will have to go at it again tomorrow after work..So it seems so far that it doesn't sound like VATS as the security light goes out once attempting to start.?Id be very surprised if it was the starter as usually with a bad starter you would usually get a click or grind..I can't even hear a click.The starter is only a yr old too..I know that doesn't matter..I'm thinking the clutch switch..I'll keep you guys posted..Thanks so much..

Have no clue how you are parked....but take a synthetic tow rope with you and with the car that brings you....tow the Z back on to a flat area and then switch around to the front and tow for about 30 ft and pop clutch in second with key on. Just grab a strut as the tow forces are just a couple hundred lbs if that. Here is my Emergency Kit with Jumper Cables and Tow Rope kept at bottom of compartment behind passenger seat and Tow Adapter/Lug Wrench kept to right of Passenger Seat between Door Sill and Seat Post 16 - Lifting and Towing the ZR-1 (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp.html#post1580070574)

15 ft tow rope (5,000 lb vehicle rating), Jumper Cables, Tow Adapter, Lug Wrench
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Maintenance%20ZR1/b2528f90-9e7e-4b76-9340-cdeadcd1e960.jpg

But before you tow the Z......turn the key to start and she may just fire right up without the little pull.

Then do not turn the key off untill you get home....then install the relay and if you want to mess with the plenum.....remove the plenum and coils and starter......Post 64 - Inspection, Testing and Reconditioning the Valley, Starter, and Coils (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-4.html#post1581663366)

Starter Relay, Wiring Harness, Battery, and Plugs Tricks (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-3.html#post1581564085)

1. Starter Solenoid Contacts.

I had a NO START condition on this 90' and after I towed it for a start....got home and it fired right up. I would have liked to hot wire the starter (purple wire) when that happens to see if it is the starter or starter ground circuit. Or check that purple wire for 12 volts when I turn the switch to start. I lean toward ground circuit or sticky starter solenoid. Another indication would be if when you turn the ignition key to start do the lights dim for example indicating a current draw to the starter solenoid/starter.

If the solenoid does not move (no clicking indicating the Starter Solenoid moved) as in my case then a sticky Solenoid or Solenoid Ground Connection. If the Solenoid clicked/moved...then bad Solenoid contacts or bad connection Battery cable (Positive) to starter/battery or bad ground (Negative) engine to battery.

Installed a relay in the start circuit of the 90' identical to what I have on the 91'. This is one of those intermittent issues and does sound like poor electrical connections in either the Starter Negative Connections or Starter Positive Connections.
Starter Relay, Wiring Harness, Battery, and Plugs Tricks (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-3.html#post1581564085)

The Starter Solenoid is shown in the left photo with slight burnt contacts in right photo.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Maintenance%20ZR1/bac49725-6086-4f07-a929-9f1f498e4d50.jpg (http://s287.photobucket.com/user/dynomite007/media/Maintenance%20ZR1/bac49725-6086-4f07-a929-9f1f498e4d50.jpg.html)http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Maintenance%20ZR1/e8886408-e5b8-40d3-a5d2-199e22f85e0a.jpg (http://s287.photobucket.com/user/dynomite007/media/Maintenance%20ZR1/e8886408-e5b8-40d3-a5d2-199e22f85e0a.jpg.html)

The Solenoid contacts in left photo were wire brushed clean in right photo.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Maintenance%20ZR1/95a2d94c-6e14-4206-ab39-e157c17fc6a2.jpg (http://s287.photobucket.com/user/dynomite007/media/Maintenance%20ZR1/95a2d94c-6e14-4206-ab39-e157c17fc6a2.jpg.html)http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Maintenance%20ZR1/e6b04516-3ebb-49ab-9f32-1da552901435.jpg (http://s287.photobucket.com/user/dynomite007/media/Maintenance%20ZR1/e6b04516-3ebb-49ab-9f32-1da552901435.jpg.html)

Complete Starter Disassembly.
Photo provided by others.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Maintenance%20ZR1/e1e09df6-311e-4048-a50f-65ec8a45ee43.jpg (http://s287.photobucket.com/user/dynomite007/media/Maintenance%20ZR1/e1e09df6-311e-4048-a50f-65ec8a45ee43.jpg.html)

[scottfab]

Here is another write-up. This one by Mark H.

http://www.zr1netregistry.com/Information/TechNet/Troubleshooting/tabid/148/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/68/PageID/69/No-Start-Engine-Wont-Crank.aspx

And a diagram showing the clutch switch etc....

http://www.justanswer.com/uploads/goodwrench9124/2007-11-03_201031_starter.gif

[scottfab]

Sorry this happened to you. It is a sickening feeling for sure.

Before you pull the engine or starter or wire up to any nuclear power source just check the clutch switch as has been mentioned. Make sure it's the clutch switch you look at (temp jumper across) as there are others down there.


I've got 90k on mine. The only no starts I've ever had are when I washed the engine (as a novice) and when the fuel pump went out.
I have a 90 and as such the clutch switch is susceptible to arcing. Therefore, I always fully depress the clutch before turning the key. I also readjusted the position of the switch to make sure it fully depresses when the clutch peddle is pushed.

FYI
Here is a nice write-up on "no start"

http://www.zr1netregistry.com/Information/TechNet/Troubleshooting/tabid/148/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/68/No-Start-Engine-Wont-Crank.aspx

[Dave2]

Hello
If your security warning light works on the dash, VATS probably isn't it. I just went thru it on my car. My CCM croaked shutting down VATS, security light- indicator on dash, interior lights, and ability to start- though fuel injection pump continued to work. Rebuilt CCM $280, and a lot of work to R&R

[Mitsumark]

Ok guys.Im on site.I am attempting to jump the clutch switch under the dash.I only see one harness with a thick solid yellow wire and a thick solid purple wire on the male end.The female it plugs into has 2 thick black wires coming out of it..Where is the safety switch?

[Dynomite]

Ok guys.Im on site.I am attempting to jump the clutch switch under the dash.I only see one harness with a thick solid yellow wire and a thick solid purple wire on the male end.The female it plugs into has 2 thick black wires coming out of it..Where is the safety switch?

Location of Clutch Safety Switch by TomC'Crabs (http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?p=97453#post97453)

The clutch safety switch is up on the clutch arm.
You will have to remove the hush panel to get at it.
It's fairly easy to jumper the switch, all you need is some wire and a couple of alligator clips.
Try holding the key in the START position while engaging and dis-engaging the clutch. Carefully watch the amp gauge. Normally, when the clutch safety switch is engaged the amps drop as the connection is made to the starter.

Some people report having success with giving the starter a wack with a long rod or a socket extension.
I've never done it, but I've read that there's one place where there's room between the runners on the plenum to get access to the starter.

TomC
'Crabs

Good Luck :handshak:

Cliff

[Mitsumark]

I removed the hush panel if the one your speaking of is the carpeted and plastic panel facing the floor..I see switches on the top of the pedal assembly.However none of them have purple or yellow wires..What am I missing?Anyone have an actual pic?I cant read wiring diagrams as Im on a tiny Iphone.If Im looking at the clutch pedal adjustment screw,is the switch above or below that?

[LGAFF]

Look for a connector about the size of a matchbox....also would be good to relplace the relays lined up under the dash


http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20411&page=2

[Mitsumark]

That harness hes holding in his hand is the one I found.It has a solid purple and solid yellow..Very thick wires.NO STRIPES....I jumped the pins together on the male side and it still wont start,

[LGAFF]

There are three relays under the D/s dash, try replacing them one at a time and then starting the car, I am trying to remember which one is the starter relay, that was my issue

[Mitsumark]

Where exactly is the purple starter wire that ALZR1 was speaking of..He said something about it being near the ECM..I can try to jump the starter but want to make sure I have the right wire,

[LGAFF]

Problem Solved:-D

[Dynomite]

Problem Solved:-D

You called Triple A :sign10: :sign10:
You bought his ZR1 as is :D

[Racinfan83]

Ok.......????? :confused::confused::confused::confused:


SO - what was it?

[Mitsumark]

Words can't express my appreciation for LGAFF..He was kind enough to voluntarily PM me his private number..Without going into detail,I called him from where I was stuck.He walked me through a few steps and the car fired right up..It was the starter relay..I put the relay in and I've started and shut it off a dozen times already..Many thanks to everyone for they're quick responses..LGAFF,I know I probably was rambling a little bit and talking over you at times.I was just very gratefully and happy you got me going.In all honesty,it probably would have taken me quite a few days to figure it out..Sir,if ever you are in the NJ area,,I owe you some dinner..This board is awesome..

[LGAFF]

No problem, enjoy the car! Made my day to hear it fire up!

[We Gone]

Congrads.. great job LGAFF one of the best parts of owning a ZR-1 is the other owners. :salute:

[Dynomite]

Words can't express my appreciation for LGAFF..He was kind enough to voluntarily PM me his private number..Without going into detail,I called him from where I was stuck.He walked me through a few steps and the car fired right up..It was the starter relay..I put the relay in and I've started and shut it off a dozen times already..Many thanks to everyone for they're quick responses..LGAFF,I know I probably was rambling a little bit and talking over you at times.I was just very gratefully and happy you got me going.In all honesty,it probably would have taken me quite a few days to figure it out..Sir,if ever you are in the NJ area,,I owe you some dinner..This board is awesome..

Great Job Lee :thumbsup:

Learn something every day ;)

Is this the Starter Enable Relay you are talking about?
Several have suggested there is NO Starter Enable Relay on the 90' and 91' :rolleyes:

How often does that go out of business?
Maybe one should carry a spare?
This is in addition to the Clutch Safety Switch I guess according to the diagram I have?

Can I post up when I am in trouble and get your phone number (Lee) so I can call you when I am dead in the water :D

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Maintenance%20ZR1/StarterRelay.jpg

[Mitsumark]

That be the one^...There were 3 in sequence right next to the round relay flasher..It was the one closest to the driver door.

[Dynomite]

That be the one^...There were 3 in sequence right next to the round relay flasher..It was the one closest to the driver door.

What are the other two? I guess all three are Plug and Play?

You guys are great......appreciate the information. Just thinking....My tow rope would have got me started in this event I guess if my spare Starter Enable Relay is in my shed???

Thanks guys...appreciate the information :thumbsup:

[Mitsumark]

Lol^..I have no idea what the other 2 are for..He broke out his service manual on the phone and just guided my hands..Literally...

[Franke]

Mitsumark, feels good to have a great bunch of folks to help at a time like that doesn't it? They've helped me with quite a bit of info that is not in the FS manuals but comes from experience. It is the best teacher!!!

Good job LGAFF (Lee).

[Mitsumark]

Yes it does..I was about to go insane..

Can I post up when I am in trouble and get your phone number (Lee) so I can call you when I am dead in the water

Dynomite.You seem like a funny character..A resourceful one too..I'll be sure to try and stay on your good side:-D

[Dynomite]

Yes it does..I was about to go insane..
Dynomite.You seem like a funny character..A resourceful one too..I'll be sure to try and stay on your good side:-D

:D

IN LIFE AND LONGEVITY
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just the old dog....
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