Secondchance - 380 build begins!

[secondchance]

Some of you may remember my posting and confirmation that my head gasket gad failed.
Initial reaction - S**t!!! So, obviously I accepted having to redo the head gasket. Of course, naturally then would be a good idea to service the valves, lifters, proper cam timing.
Did it stop there? Course not! Might as well go to 4" liners and pistons, etc, etc, etc...
Eventually this has turned into 4" pistons and liners and offset grind crankshaft to 3.76" stroke resulting in 378 - I'll be referring to it as 380.
First step was to pick up a take off crankshaft from Phil's 402 doner LT5 and send it off to one of the forum member/engine builder (keeping magnanimity just in case...).
By next week, my Z will be at my friend's/local mechanic, also w/ 1990 Z, for an engine pull and disassembly. Already lined up friends who will handle head porting and plenum/IH porting.
I did consider getting a new crate motor but then I'll only be back where I had started, right? I have never had a car with a modified motor, never even dreamed of it - so beyond my reach! Now that this is a reality, I am ecstatic beyond belief!
Just want to say that all this started because I had a great fortune of running into the WAZOO clan and having hung around this forum hanging with you guys.

Thank you guys!!!

[GOLDCYLON]

Welcome to the club. Is POLO-1 helping? This will be 380 build number #3. Highly suggest you look at Mark H's Cometic head gaskets which are just like the LS1 motors. Also highly suggest pulling the secondaries and deploying Petes Intake cams for an additional 30 HP. GC :cheers:

[Paul in SC]

Yun,

Welcome to the Stroker family. :cheers:

You will love every second!:dancing

Paul

[-=Jeff=-]

And I am sure Pete will suggest his Exhaust Cams too.. just loo at Dominic's thread about that

[secondchance]

Welcome to the club. Is POLO-1 helping? This will be 380 build number #3. Highly suggest you look at Mark H's Cometic head gaskets which are just like the LS1 motors. Also highly suggest pulling the secondaries and deploying Petes Intake cams for an additional 30 HP. GC :cheers:

Yes. Kevin is helping me identify recommended parts.
I might go to stage 1 cam but prefer not to spend anymore - keeps getting more expensive!
Nonetheless, thanks for the suggestions.:cheers:

[secondchance]

Yun,

Welcome to the Stroker family. :cheers:

You will love every second!:dancing

Paul

Thank you! Never thought I could come so far...
See you at Carlisle?

[GOLDCYLON]

Yes. Kevin is helping me identify recommended parts.
I might go to stage 1 cam but prefer not to spend anymore - keeps getting more expensive!
Nonetheless, thanks for the suggestions.:cheers:


I know exactly how you feel but the intake cams alone are 30HP sitting on the table pretty high performamce to cost ratio. Talk to Pete :handshak:

[RICKYRJ1]

Hi Yun, congrats on the build. I am jealous but that is ok among friends. I hope sometime at Carlisle I can get a sample of yours and Phil's power upgrades. Remember the days when nobody wanted a modified car? You have done a tremendous job with that car over the past couple of years, you do the brotherhood proud. Keep us updated on the progress.

[ZZZZZR1]

Yun

What a difference 4 years makes! Your car has been
transformed into a show car and now a stroker! Class!

So happy you are going to the next level!! I'm jealous!
Can't wait to get a ride in that beast!

:cheers:

David

[secondchance]

Hi Yun, congrats on the build. I am jealous but that is ok among friends. I hope sometime at Carlisle I can get a sample of yours and Phil's power upgrades. Remember the days when nobody wanted a modified car? You have done a tremendous job with that car over the past couple of years, you do the brotherhood proud. Keep us updated on the progress.

Thanks Ricky! Compliment from you is truly worthwhile.

[secondchance]

Yun

What a difference 4 years makes! Your car has been
transformed into a show car and now a stroker! Class!

So happy you are going to the next level!! I'm jealous!
Can't wait to get a ride in that beast!

:cheers:

David

Had I not run into you, resulting in hooking up with the WAZOO gang, this would never have happened.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Yun,

As stated, your car is being transformed into a real "Beast" since you were kind enough to give me a ride back years ago when I visited the WAZOO boys. All I can do is envy all of you. Best wishes in the build and can't wait to hear and see all the details. Yes, I have regrets now about rebuilding mine as a 350.

Craig

[XfireZ51]

Craig,

U went with Pete's intake and exhaust cams right? What did it dyno?

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Craig,

U went with Pete's intake and exhaust cams right? What did it dyno?

Sorry, I wish I did. I have SGC Stage I, both intake and exhaust. I did not dyno yet and still need to get off my arse to put headers back on with new xpipe and Dynomax muffflers with my other chip. I'm done with trying to pass emissions. I really wanna know about dyno too.:cheers:

[XfireZ51]

Sorry, I wish I did. I have SGC Stage I, both intake and exhaust. I did not dyno yet and still need to get off my arse to put headers back on with new xpipe and Dynomax muffflers with my other chip. I'm done with trying to pass emissions. I really wanna know about dyno too.:cheers:

What's the spec on those cams?

[FU]

> Stage I SGC
> I 228 degs. .416" pri. and sec.
> E 228 degs. .416" pri. and sec

[XfireZ51]

> Stage I SGC
> I 228 degs. .416" pri. and sec.
> E 228 degs. .416" pri. and sec

Ok and Pete's are larger on he intake

237/.425" I
221/.425" E

I think the consensus is that the LT-5 doesn't need much help on the exhaust side. In my case the exhaust cams were good for another 18rwhp and 20rwtq peak. However, it really was the overall torque curve that was significantly improved.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

What's the spec on those cams?

Dom,

I was given this by Aaron Scott:

STOCK
Intake is split Dur. @ .050 .214 .229 Lift .390
Exhaust Duration @.050 Dur.214 .214 Lift .390

SGC STAGE I

.430 lift with 230 deg @ .050 (both intake and exhaust)

[XfireZ51]

Craig,

As I posted earlier even the larger cube motors find that the LT5 doesn't need lots of help on the exhaust side. Too big an exhaust and power goes out the exhaust ports. Closing exhaust too late costs compression.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Craig,

As I posted earlier even the larger cube motors find that the LT5 doesn't need lots of help on the exhaust side. Too big an exhaust and power goes out the exhaust ports. Closing exhaust too late costs compression.

Dom,
Thanks and that is what I remember hearing. When I mentioned to Aaron Scott he told me that a lot of R&D went into those specs for the Stage I, II, and III, but I don't know enough to talk to him about it more. I am curious to see the numbers it will put down one day and surely not going to take out the exhaust cams at this point. The car runs strong, but I don't have anything to judge it by since anything more than stock feels good. I know when I hit the g-spot it sometimes gets me scared and I am happy with how much power it has, but still not tuned right so waiting for that day. If I were in Texas I would just drop it off at Corey's and if I were up north I would drop it off at Marc's or Pete's. In Japan or Hawaii I'm on my own.............

The only tuning choice I have here is this racing shop: http://www.advanceauto.jp/corvette/pcm.html (http://www.advanceauto.jp/corvette/pcm.html)
They used to show the LT5 on here and my friend here has his car dyno tuned by them, but it costs about $900 US.

Here is a crappy translation from google chrome, but you get the idea.

Advance Performance Pack DATA - APP-DATA (Updater)


PCM data tuning of Advance Auto


http://www.advanceauto.jp/corvette/img/dynapack/0957.jpgIncluding the LS1, LS2, LS6, LS7, I will resetting the engine management various data.
Compare contemplating the difference between driving environment and gasoline with the United States is the country of origin of the Corvette, use conditions, the public, etc., and of using run test in various situations, the chassis dynamometer, the accumulation of data over the long-term It is very popular with the user like after.
Needless of asking the only peak power, it also gives a feeling of power that I did well on in pursuit of feeling in the actual running, and ease of handling.
It is possible setting according to the application of driver-like course.We are tuning shop rather than a mass retailer.
That things instead of using a general-purpose data with little effect, is subjected to a setting directly at the current car did on the highest emphasis on discussion with our customers, to maximize performance is the livelihood of our Advance Auto.
In addition, in the working process, and not in such a way as relying on intuition, and we have been working one by one while looking at the data of the chassis dynamometer.
Of course normal car, even in tuning vehicle change of the intake and exhaust system, engine displacement up, the high cam wearing car, etc., and can be further improved performance by resetting.
When you change, such as after-sales parts and change the lift of the intake system (throttle body and air inter-network system), exhaust system, engine body, the cam, to ensure the achievement of the optimum its performance, APP-DATA is, also, It is a work essential in order to align the status quo of the current car.

[FU]

However, it really was the overall torque curve that was significantly improved.

Overall torque curve is THE ticket .

[A26B]

Congratulations on the new 380 build Yun! Kinda like being pregnant..... .we are all hanging around waiting for the end to hear about the "new baby."

[secondchance]

Congratulations on the new 380 build Yun! Kinda like being pregnant..... .we are all hanging around waiting for the end to hear about the "new baby."

Thanks Jerry. Once I check what parts I have in the WAZOO inventory I'll be for sure ordering what I need from you.

[Polo-1]

Always happy to help out. Glad to see more 380's made=D>

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y292/kpie/IMG_0691_zpsa843840c.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/kpie/media/IMG_0691_zpsa843840c.jpg.html)

[XfireZ51]

Yun,

Depending on which cams you go w, I could have a calibration for you. Been helping out GC w his 380 over the last several months plus tune on my own
motor.

[secondchance]

Yun,

Depending on which cams you go w, I could have a calibration for you. Been helping out GC w his 380 over the last several months plus tune on my own
motor.

Fantastic! I'll be grateful!

Thanks for your help with parts list Kevin.:cheers:

[Pete]

Just saw this.
Here is what I have discovered.

I've tested most all cam combos and have found out the exhaust does not need more them .230 duration and that's on big inch motors with big intake cams.
On a 350 more then .225 is way too much and very hard to tune it does not matter how much fuel you take out the issue is the valve is open so long that it just does not burn all the fuel basicly telling it in simple terms.

This is the reason why most have a hard time tuning with big exhaust cams.

Here are some samples.
441ci runs 10's @ 133+ .247 .470 In .229 .440 Ex (auto)
427ci runs 10's @ 134+ .242 .450 In .224 .415 Ex
441ci runs 10's @ XXX .240 .440 In .224 .415 Ex
350ci runs 11.0's @129+ .242 .450 In .224 .415 Ex

All the big inch motors make over 525 rwtq peak.

All above cars drive like stockers,drive to BG every year they run hard and drive back home aprox 1000 miles and get 25 mpg.

Pete

Maybe more tomorrow,i'm tired.

[secondchance]

For me driveability and durability is most important. Also, trying to minimize cost. I might go with stage 1 intake cam (if I can find one at reasonable cost) but most likely keep stock exhaust cams.

[dredgeguy]

Yun,
Are you doing anything with the gears or staying with stock ratio?

[secondchance]

Yun,
Are you doing anything with the gears or staying with stock ratio?

At least for now - staying stock. Once the motor is done, then back to front brake conversion followed by coil over conversion. Then, maybe 410 gear. We shall see.
Almost forgot! Two more front speakers in the doors.:cheers:

[XfireZ51]

Darryl,

Why don't you post a vid of your 380 idling etc?

[secondchance]

Update:

Slight delay due to roof leakage at the shop where the engine will be pulled. Finally scheduled to have the motor pulled around the 28th.
In the meantime I sent a WAZOO spare crankshaft (thank you Phil!) to Ryan Bell (flyin ryan) who is with Rick Watters Racing in Glendale, AZ.
Ryan also helped me with selecting following parts:
4" Diamond 4032 Alloy Pistons 11.5:1 Compression
Diamond 4130 Pins
Total Seal Piston Ring Set - Standard Tension
Eagle ESP 4340 5.850" Connecting Rods

He will offset grind the crankshaft to 2" rod pins, stroke to 3.75", heat treat and index.

I bought main bearings from Kurt (great price!) and sent them to Ryan so that he can check the total assembly before shipping it back.

Once the motor is disassembled the plenum and IHs will be sent to Lee for porting. As for the throttle body, I might stay with 58 mm for now - keeping the cost down.

Ryan has been a tremendous help and took all the guess work out. What do I know... Of course, Phil has been advising me along the way also.

Thanks guys!!!

[XfireZ51]

All this and you're not porting the TB to save a few bucks? Really?
What's the point of increasing the displacement if you choke it off right at the start?

[RICKYRJ1]

All this and you're not porting the TB to save a few bucks? Really?
What's the point of increasing the displacement if you choke it off right at the start?


I agree why do it at a later date? Is the cost saving really that large at this point? Do you really want down time again after she is all done? Looking forward to the finished product GL

[LGAFF]

I would be interested to see if bigger than 58mm really helps......I believe that is between 1000-1200 CFM. Which should support 600hp

[secondchance]

I know guys... I am still thinking how to stage it.
At most hold off for 1-2 months. We shall see.
At his point I just want to be able to drive - can't even drive to Carlisle!

[XfireZ51]

I know guys... I am still thinking how to stage it.
At most hold off for 1-2 months. We shall see.
At his point I just want to be able to drive - can't even drive to Carlisle!

It's not just a matter of slapping on a larger TB. You'll need to check and probably re-do the Min Air adjustment and calibration. You'll have a different
TPS v for the desired RPM. IAC will be affected. Really should be done as a system. JMHO.

[Scrrem]

Keep good notes Yun, if I ever find a motor, I'll be going that route too ;-)

Rich

[Polo-1]

[QUOTE=secondchance;180166]Update:

Ryan Bell (flyin ryan) who is with Rick Watters Racing in Glendale, AZ.
Ryan also helped me with selecting following parts:
4" Diamond 4032 Alloy Pistons 11.5:1 Compression
Diamond 4130 Pins
Total Seal Piston Ring Set - Standard Tension
Eagle ESP 4340 5.850" Connecting Rods
Ryan has been a tremendous help and took all the guess work out. What do I know... Of course, Phil has been advising me along the way also.

Thanks guys!!![/QUOTE

That's great Ryan is in the States now. That makes shipping much easier. He will be a Great help in your 380 quest !!

Did you ask him about port work on the it. Not sure if he does LT5 work. Not that he does not know how, it's if he has the time?

[secondchance]

[QUOTE=secondchance;180166]Update:

Ryan Bell (flyin ryan) who is with Rick Watters Racing in Glendale, AZ.
Ryan also helped me with selecting following parts:
4" Diamond 4032 Alloy Pistons 11.5:1 Compression
Diamond 4130 Pins
Total Seal Piston Ring Set - Standard Tension
Eagle ESP 4340 5.850" Connecting Rods
Ryan has been a tremendous help and took all the guess work out. What do I know... Of course, Phil has been advising me along the way also.

Thanks guys!!![/QUOTE

That's great Ryan is in the States now. That makes shipping much easier. He will be a Great help in your 380 quest !!

Did you ask him about port work on the it. Not sure if he does LT5 work. Not that he does not know how, it's if he has the time?

Porting will be done locally. Prefer to keep anonymous but well versed in LT5. This was much simpler route.

[Polo-1]

We have a few good porting guys out there for sure. Ryan's work is just on a different level.

[Pete]

Keep good notes Yun, if I ever find a motor, I'll be going that route too ;-)

Rich

Hey Rich I have the perfect short block for you.
If all you need is crank and block I have a 1991 with 50k miles.
If you want block and crank it's yours for $600.

Pete

[Scrrem]

Hey Rich I have the perfect short block for you.
If all you need is crank and block I have a 1991 with 50k miles.
If you want block and crank it's yours for $600.

Pete

Hey Pete,
Well, just when I needed my next project :) You have a sale!! I'll shoot you a pm. To work out the details.
Rich

[secondchance]

Hey Pete,
Well, just when I needed my next project :) You have a sale!! I'll shoot you a pm. To work out the details.
Rich

That's a deal!
I guess we will be talking pistons and rods at the cars and coffee.

[dredgeguy]

The floodgates are open..........when one Wazoo starts...............this is going to be fun.
Can't wait to get together and share notes.

[ZZZZZR1]

Nice deal Rich!!!!

Another potential high hp wazoo car coming

:cheers:

David

[secondchance]

Last post was in August 2013. Now an update, finally my motor is out of the car, plenum and IHs are with Lee. I will be picking up my disassembled motor from Frank who was tasked with removal and disassembly. Next will be cleaning the block and taking the pieces to a machine shop for valve job and partial assembly.
It has been a long wait (to find right guy to do the dirty work since I live in a condo) but finally I am beginning to see the light!
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_1194_zpsb6830f5b.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_1194_zpsb6830f5b.jpg.html)
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_1193_zps923f5593.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_1193_zps923f5593.jpg.html)

[scottfab]

Keep the steady flow of pictures coming as it progresses.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Best wishes with your build Yun! Mahalo for sharing photos. :cheers:

[Scrrem]

Great Yun, long time coming!! Well looks like you and I are are set up for "Twin 380's"...LOL!! I should have my crank and rotating assembly parts back soon.
Rich

[alnukem]

No Cylinder Head porting?????

[secondchance]

No Cylinder Head porting?????

Of course, it will be ported.

[RICKYRJ1]

Great Yun, long time coming!! Well looks like you and I are are set up for "Twin 380's"...LOL!! I should have my crank and rotating assembly parts back soon.
Rich

you suck! I have 380 envy!!! :cheers: cant wait till you are both done to check them out

[alnukem]

Of course, it will be ported.

Thank goodness! We do have an image to keep up! Keep us in the loop.

[secondchance]

Thank goodness! We do have an image to keep up! Keep us in the loop.

For sure!

"you suck! I have 380 envy!!! :cheers: cant wait till you are both done to check them out".

Rickey,

It's been a long winter. Never thought I would get to come this far. Without the WAZOO gang, never would have made it.

[RICKYRJ1]

I hear ya brother Yun, one couldn't ask for a better bunch of guys. I also hope one day to have my LT5 massaged and will reach out the WAZOO collective for assistance. We gotta get our good ole farmer brother Darrin to break off a piece of land for us and build a track for tune & testing. :-D

[LGAFF]

Tope end pretty much done, just need to clean up the port match

Stock vs Ported

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/DSCN5654.jpg (http://s134.photobucket.com/user/lgaff/media/DSCN5654.jpg.html)

Plenum/IH

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/DSCN5644.jpg (http://s134.photobucket.com/user/lgaff/media/DSCN5644.jpg.html)

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/DSCN5647.jpg (http://s134.photobucket.com/user/lgaff/media/DSCN5647.jpg.html)

[LGAFF]

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/DSCN5648.jpg (http://s134.photobucket.com/user/lgaff/media/DSCN5648.jpg.html)


http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/DSCN5661.jpg (http://s134.photobucket.com/user/lgaff/media/DSCN5661.jpg.html)

[secondchance]

Thanks, Lee! Can't wait to mate those IHs and the plenum, finished in Tiger Drylac anodized silver, back on the heads!

Disassembled motor was dropped off at the machine shop today. Of course, I was totally lost until Phil showed up and started talking to the shop owner. Lloyd, the owner of the machine shop, obviously was a total gearhead and I could tell how much he was enjoying talking to Phil. Also got a tour of the shop.
Phil and Lloyd did some forensics on how I ended up blowing exhaust into the cooling system. If I understood correct, it was a combination of mileage and a defect on the head gasket.
Mind you, both head gaskets were intact - no distortion.

Below is the 1-3-5-7 head. Problem was with the #5 cylinder.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0428_zps62de0208.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0428_zps62de0208.jpg.html)

Cylinder #5 - notice the notch?
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0430_zps980d00c5.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0430_zps980d00c5.jpg.html)

Corresponding segment of the head gasket.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0431_zpsc68173f9.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0431_zpsc68173f9.jpg.html)

Interestingly we found a "v" shaped depression on the other head. It turns out head gasket had a small imperfection, which was quite visible, responsible for this depression.
Perhaps, there was some over-heating due to low coolant when the OEM radiator went that exacerbated this weakness.

Whatever caused the sequence of event, this LT5 served me and served me well for the last 13 years and 140,000 miles. Better yet, I get to have a hand assembled 4" by 3.75" 377!!! - I LOVE IT!!!
I have always loved cars and especially Vettes. Owned Vettes since 1979. However, had I not run into the Net Registry and WAZOO in particular, I wouldn't have known of what can be done and couldn't have even dreamt of 380 build.

Thank you Net Registry and WAZOO!:cheers:

[SAM/CH ZR-1]

For me driveability and durability is most important. Also, trying to minimize cost. I might go with stage 1 intake cam (if I can find one at reasonable cost) but most likely keep stock exhaust cams.

In my 383 (4.030 bore x 3.75 stroke) I have stage 1 inlet and stock exhaust cams.
My engine has the following additional mods.

-37.5 mm inlet ports
-Headers
-2.75 Inch PowerEffects exhaust System
-catalytic converters
-SGC base chip (thank you Aaron)

With 800 miles on the clock and without a final adjusted chip I went on a dyno and it pulled about 560 HP at the crank. Here in Europe we measure always the power at the crank, unfortunately.
The car has stock gears and is as fast as a C6 Z06. The weight of my ZR-1 is 3'530 lbs

With a adjusted chip and better modified secondaries there is still space for some additional HP's

Sam

[Scrrem]

Well Yun, the mystery is solved. Great write up on the head gasket, sorry I missed you guys at the shop. No more stock radiators for your...Huh? Keep the write ups coming....I'm right behind you.
Rich

[XfireZ51]

I had the Pete Intake cam w stock exhaust combo on my 5.7L. Very nice and smooth. After going w the exhaust cam it made things a bit more raucous but added another ~ 20rwhp. BTW, I did the calibration for my config as well as GC's 380.






In my 383 (4.030 bore x 3.75 stroke) I have stage 1 inlet and stock exhaust cams.
My engine has the following additional mods.

-37.5 mm inlet ports
-Headers
-2.75 Inch PowerEffects exhaust System
-catalytic converters
-SGC base chip (thank you Aaron)

With 800 miles on the clock and without a final adjusted chip I went on a dyno and it pulled about 560 HP at the crank. Here in Europe we measure always the power at the crank, unfortunately.
The car has stock gears and is as fast as a C6 Z06. The weight of my ZR-1 is 3'530 lbs

With a adjusted chip and better modified secondaries there is still space for some additional HP's

Sam

[FU]

In my 383 (4.030 bore x 3.75 stroke) I have stage 1 inlet and stock exhaust cams.
My engine has the following additional mods.

-37.5 mm inlet ports
-Headers
-2.75 Inch PowerEffects exhaust System
-catalytic converters
-SGC base chip (thank you Aaron)

With 800 miles on the clock and without a final adjusted chip I went on a dyno and it pulled about 560 HP at the crank. Here in Europe we measure always the power at the crank, unfortunately.
The car has stock gears and is as fast as a C6 Z06. The weight of my ZR-1 is 3'530 lbs

With a adjusted chip and better modified secondaries there is still space for some additional HP's

Sam

560 crank HP..........what compression ratio is on the engine ??

[SAM/CH ZR-1]

560 crank HP..........what compression ratio is on the engine ??

Hello Frank

The engine has a 12.5 : 1 compression ratio and run with stock head gaskets.
As mentionned it has catalytic converters installed.
You can feel the acceleration difference if it run with or without cats.

Sam

[SAM/CH ZR-1]

Here a Youtube Video of a friend of mine who run his 350 cui Callaway LT5 at night on a german Highway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaB05butQBo&feature=youtu.be

316 km/h is like 198 mph and the car was not at its speed limit. I love the german highways because there our biests can show what they really can.

Sam

[secondchance]

Updates:

Engine bay cleaned in preparation to received updated motor - 2 cans of Gunk, Dawn and water scrubbing followed by Deep Purple degreaser.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0436_zps0c0fa0ae.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0436_zps0c0fa0ae.jpg.html)

Cleaned up block with new 4" liners. Notice the torque plate?
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0443_zps0fa4931b.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0443_zps0fa4931b.jpg.html)

Cleaned up lower block. Notice discoloration on main bearings? Lloyd told me this rebuild was timely.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0445_zps8299409c.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0445_zps8299409c.jpg.html)

Close up of bearing surface.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0446_zps5ec63ff0.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0446_zps5ec63ff0.jpg.html)

[ZZZZZR1]

Very cool!

Thanks for the updates!!

:cheers:

David

[Scrrem]

Good Stuff Yun! Looks like Loyd is moving right along!
Rich

[FU]

What oil was use in the motor ?

[secondchance]

What oil was use in the motor ?

Mobil 1, at least, since I bought this car in 2000. I think I was using 10-40 when I lived in Florida ('till August 2001) and switched to 10-30 when I moved back to VA. Similar wear on the rod bearings also.

[RICKYRJ1]

Very cool Yun, keep feeding us Z mortals more pics/info great stuff :fahne:

[Schrade]

In my 383 (4.030 bore x 3.75 stroke) I have stage 1 inlet and stock exhaust cams.
My engine has the following additional mods.

-37.5 mm inlet ports
-Headers
-2.75 Inch PowerEffects exhaust System
-catalytic converters
-SGC base chip (thank you Aaron)

With 800 miles on the clock and without a final adjusted chip I went on a dyno and it pulled about 560 HP at the crank. Here in Europe we measure always the power at the crank, unfortunately.
The car has stock gears and is as fast as a C6 Z06. The weight of my ZR-1 is 3'530 lbs

With a adjusted chip and better modified secondaries there is still space for some additional HP's

Sam

Did you happen to do a Before + After HP reading of the PE pipes?

I'm curious if any more HP comes with this PE 3" hardware, over what Marc says is available by opening up the resonator restriction (I think he says 10??? ),

Jeff? [Shrek]? You happen to know?

I'm sure I lost double-digit HP's + TQ with the automatic - tranny fluid pump, TQ convertor, etc., ...

[A26B]

Would you mind taking a shot of the #4 & #5 main bearings? The #4 seems to be the one that wears the most. I think the wear & wear pattern look very good. How many miles on the engine?

Thanks for the photos.

[secondchance]

Would you mind taking a shot of the #4 & #5 main bearings? The #4 seems to be the one that wears the most. I think the wear & wear pattern look very good. How many miles on the engine?

Thanks for the photos.

Jerry,

If I can stop by the shop early next week, I will take close ups of all.
I have 140,000+ on this engine.

May I ask what prompted "the wear & wear pattern look very good"?

[Jagdpanzer]

Yun,
I'm with Jerry, by the looks of the photos the bearings appear to be in darn good shape for 140k miles.

[secondchance]

Yun,
I'm with Jerry, by the looks of the photos the bearings appear to be in darn good shape for 140k miles.

Glad to hear. While at the shop yesterday looked at the new main bearing set from Kurt with Lloyd. He told me those were King Bearings and would have been his choice.

I don't know the sequence but these are upper mains.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0448_zps20c6171f.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0448_zps20c6171f.jpg.html)

[5ABI VT]

Awesome stuff keep the updates coming !! Love watching motors get built :) Unfortunately for me I built a 388 for my 93 and it blew up, and shelled out for a all out 370ci build the second time around.. and then bought a z :-x I sure wish I spent all that on an LT5 build ! But as my wife always says I'm OCD when it comes to anything that I want... and a built LT5 is what I want!! :dancing

Picking up a lot of info on build ups from threads like yours thanks again for sharing :) If I may ask all the guys, Is there a source atm for stroker cranks ? OP did you consider a stroker crank?

[secondchance]

OP did you consider a stroker crank?

Sure did. But the cost was prohibitive - about $6,000 from what I understand.

Stopped by the machine shop this afternoon. Short block is almost done. Lloyd was torqueing the rod bearings - I think!

http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0455_zps91c6e89a.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0455_zps91c6e89a.jpg.html)

A peek from below.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0460_zps98859b0a.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0460_zps98859b0a.jpg.html)

A close up.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0464_zpsbf746c68.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0464_zpsbf746c68.jpg.html)

[USAZR1]

Yun,what did you use for con rods & pistons?

[Scrrem]

Looking Great Yun!
Rich

[secondchance]

Yun,what did you use for con rods & pistons?

I believe 5.85" Eagle rods and 4" Diamond pistons. Flying Ryan and Rick Watters of Rick Watter's Racing Engine ordered pistons and rods. I don't know enough to select and match pistons, rods, rings etc...
Rick Watter's also handled crankshaft regrind with their choice of machine shop.

[Jagdpanzer]

Looks like with the 2.000" rod journals he didn't have to notch the block to clear the rod bolts like I had to.

[ZZZZZR1]

I believe 5.85" Eagle rods and 4" Diamond pistons. Flying Ryan and Rick Watters of Rick Watter's Racing Engine ordered pistons and rods. I don't know enough to select and match pistons, rods, rings etc...
Rick Watter's also handled crankshaft regrind with their choice of machine shop.

I have to put my foot down. That's PORN on our forum.

Please take it down immediately and email it directly to me!!!!

:salute:

David

[secondchance]

Looks like with the 2.000" rod journals he didn't have to notch the block to clear the rod bolts like I had to.

Lloyd commented that all fit real good and he liked the choice of parts. He said the mains were sticking at first so he had to work the main bearings a bit.

David,

Thanks for the compliment.

[Scrrem]

Lloyd commented that all fit real good and he liked the choice of parts. He said the mains were sticking at first so he had to work the main bearings a bit.

David,

Thanks for the compliment.

That's what has me really worried with my build, this is the second build that I have seen that have encountered this issue.
Rich

[secondchance]

I am clueless how sticking mains can be fixed. I can ask and find out.

Although I don't know enough to assemble the motor, it's a real treat to be able to stop by, take pics and see it being assembled.

[Polo-1]

The aluminum block and girdle move around a bit. This just happens on the LT5. Kind of scary the first time around. Every bolt needs to be torqued on the whole bottom end before turning the crank.

Nice part of the 380's (3.750 stroke) no block work needed, even with the big 2.100 stock rods:-D



http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y292/kpie/IMG_2750.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/kpie/media/IMG_2750.jpg.html)

[Scrrem]

Good to know, I was thinking you shouldn't need to torque all the griddle skirt bolts.....Thanks for the great tip!!
Rich

[LGAFF]

I took my block back twice.....every time I torqued it the crank would stick like an SOB......6K miles later no issues. A lot of it is the engine flexing on the stand....no worries!!!

[GOLDCYLON]

I have to put my foot down. That's PORN on our forum.

Please take it down immediately and email it directly to me!!!!

:salute:

David


No PORN for you! Come back three years (Soup Nazi)

[A26B]

That's what has me really worried with my build, this is the second build that I have seen that have encountered this issue.
Rich

There is a slight difference in the fabrication of the King thrust bearing, compared to the OEM thrust bearing. The OEM thrust bearing flanges are spot/tack welded to the bearing shell and does not have any fillet on the back side. The King thrust bearing is formed from one piece and has a very small fillet which interferes with the bearing surface in the block (both upper & lower crankcases), resulting in the bearing not being completely seated. The result is a tight bearing that doesn't allow the crank to turn freely. The solution is to simply grind a slight chamfer (abt 1/32") on the outside edges of the bearing surface if the block so that the bearing shell will fit completely into the main bores.

When we ship a set of King Main Bearing to a customer, a detailed instruction sheet is included which describes the modification required.

Personally, I think the King Main Thrust Bearing is better than the OEM. I have seen a few of the OEM bearing that the thrust flange welds have cracked/broken.

FWIW, we also had King make +0.0005" main bearings in addition to the std size, so the main clearance could be in the middle instead of the top of the recommended clearance when building a new engine.

[secondchance]

Original cam cover emblems touched up. These seem to have strange finish - almost like black chrome. I thought about replacing with Lee's replica but decided to touch up and reuse.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/e1a37501-6287-4b8e-b4eb-e04e59d5d941_zpsec7b4d41.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/e1a37501-6287-4b8e-b4eb-e04e59d5d941_zpsec7b4d41.jpg.html)

[LGAFF]

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/1558433_10152408492972743_5037020656299665980_n.jp g (http://s134.photobucket.com/user/lgaff/media/1558433_10152408492972743_5037020656299665980_n.jp g.html)

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/10257044_10152408492512743_6501222958034482718_n.j pg (http://s134.photobucket.com/user/lgaff/media/10257044_10152408492512743_6501222958034482718_n.j pg.html)

[LGAFF]

I will run over and make sure there are no flaws, then I should be ready to ship very soon

[secondchance]

Looks great! Thanks Lee.
Heads are ported awaiting valve job.

[LGAFF]

I am going to get everthing packed up, the airhorn had a gassing issue so we are redoing it...had some pitting due to gases trying to escape the aluminum. Everything else turned out awesome, will have everything packed and over to Fedex in the next few days.

Will ship the airhorn once its redone

[secondchance]

Ported heads:

Intake.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/d4ad71ed-c85c-4dd3-a3be-8e070c0934c6_zps645d37ee.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/d4ad71ed-c85c-4dd3-a3be-8e070c0934c6_zps645d37ee.jpg.html)
Exhaust.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/b13d06f1-90d7-4db9-8525-ae2f8b6f90a7_zps75490a58.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/b13d06f1-90d7-4db9-8525-ae2f8b6f90a7_zps75490a58.jpg.html)

After the valve job assembly begins.

[XfireZ51]

Maybe u know this already, but if that "pad" for the ignition module wasn't masked off before PC, you'll need to remove the PC before mounting the module. Can't tell from pic.

[WVZR-1]

Maybe u know this already, but if that "pad" for the ignition module wasn't masked off before PC, you'll need to remove the PC before mounting the module. Can't tell from pic.

I would guess the "sub-contractor" had that under control?

[secondchance]

If not, will figure something out.

[FU]

Clean your shoes.

[secondchance]

Clean your shoes.

Tough to do that while assigned to a construction site.

[cvette98pacecar]

Yun, Your car was fun to drive when she was stock, I cant imagine how much fun it will be when she is a "380"

[secondchance]

Yun, Your car was fun to drive when she was stock, I cant imagine how much fun it will be when she is a "380"

Coming from you, with great Zs, that's a hell of a compliment.
What started as refurbishing of tired parts after 100,000 plus miles went out of control and I love it!:cheers:

[secondchance]

Engine reassembly was postponed due to unforeseen damage to cam chain idler assembly.
Spent this afternoon painting letters on the cam covers.
Last time I did this was 5 years ago and at that time I painted letters while the cam cover was on the car. This time, with the cam covers off the engine, should have been easier but not the case. Hand was not as steady and couldn't see as well as I use to...

http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0507_zps24317b89.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0507_zps24317b89.jpg.html)

[LGAFF]

Looks great Yun!

[secondchance]

Having tried free hand I decided to use masking tape and spray for the plenum. Rather spend time cutting the letters with Exacto knife then go through the stress of keeping my hand steady.

Thanks Lee! I am very happy with my choice of color and satin finish.

Somehow picture looks bluish but in realty it's satin silver finish.

[nelson007]

Looks great Yun,what type paint did you use?
Nelson007
Sorry i missed your call, i was attending seminars when you called. Hopefully next year you will come. Gunny was a great host and a hell of a driver. He lead the group and i covered up the rear in the Mountain Run,
Nelson007

[secondchance]

Looks great Yun,what type paint did you use?
Nelson007
Sorry i missed your call, i was attending seminars when you called. Hopefully next year you will come. Gunny was a great host and a hell of a driver. He lead the group and i covered up the rear in the Mountain Run,
Nelson007

I just called to see how much fun you were having.
As for the cam cover, IH and plenum, I opted for powder coating as opposed to paint. I am of belief that higher level of finish can be had with paint but powder coating are more durable - just my opinion. With my insistence in driving my Z all the time (as long as it's not raining) durability of finish was my priority.
See you soon!

[secondchance]

Intake plenum with lettering.

http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0510_zps34709aa5.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0510_zps34709aa5.jpg.html)

[nelson007]

Thanks You,
Did you also power coat the emblems on the cam cover?
Thanks,
Nelson

[FU]

Finished plenum looks great !! I really like the color.

[SteelBlueZR1]

Hi Yun. Plenum looks amazing. Congrats on making your car better than new at a 100k+. I miss WAZOO and all you guys.

[Schrade]

THey should be on the wall - not the motor http://www.zr1.net/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif



http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0507_zps24317b89.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0507_zps24317b89.jpg.html)

[secondchance]

Thanks You,
Did you also power coat the emblems on the cam cover?
Thanks,
Nelson

Emblems are factory original. Just touched up w/ paint.

[secondchance]

Thanks guys for the compliment!

[SAM/CH ZR-1]

Hello ZR-1 gang

I have a question to all whos engines run with steel sleeves. How much oil does your engines comsume?


Sam

[secondchance]

We got together and I helped Phil and Jim install camshafts and cam chains.

Cam chains being installed after cam guides and idler.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0528_zpsea10b3ab.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0528_zpsea10b3ab.jpg.html)

Jim and Phil busy over camshafts.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0530_zps103d5496.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0530_zps103d5496.jpg.html)

Camshafts and chains in place.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0534_zps9b0e5876.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0534_zps9b0e5876.jpg.html)

Tomorrow we are going to time the camshafts w/ degree wheel.

[secondchance]

Hello ZR-1 gang

I have a question to all whos engines run with steel sleeves. How much oil does your engines comsume?


Sam

Hi Sam,

I don't know yet. I expect oil consumption to be reduced due to the fact that my LT5 had 140,000 miles.
FYI, L.A. sleeves are cast iron. I understand the factory nikasil liners retain oil on the surface better then cast iron liners but after 140,000 miles, new sleeves and the whole engine being refreshed should reduce oil consumption.

[Blue Flame Restorations]

And I am sure Pete will suggest his Exhaust Cams too.. just loo at Dominic's thread about that

I did Pete's intake and exhaust cams. Glad I did!

[SAM/CH ZR-1]

Hi Sam,

I don't know yet. I expect oil consumption to be reduced due to the fact that my LT5 had 140,000 miles.
FYI, L.A. sleeves are cast iron. I understand the factory nikasil liners retain oil on the surface better then cast iron liners but after 140,000 miles, new sleeves and the whole engine being refreshed should reduce oil consumption.

Oh yes, you are right. They are cast iron.
Nevertheless, my engine consume up to 1 quart of oil each 650 miles in spite of all new parts (pistons, liners, rings, valve steam seals etc.). It was correctly broken in and I run it with semi-synthetic Mobil oil 10W-40.

It's not as the consumption would disturb me much because the engine really pull strong and run on german highways a topspeed of +200 miles. I am just curious to know what experiences about oil consumption other cast iron sleeves LT5 owners did.

Sam

[secondchance]

Oh yes, you are right. They are cast iron.
Nevertheless, my engine consume up to 1 quart of oil each 650 miles in spite of all new parts (pistons, liners, rings, valve steam seals etc.). It was correctly broken in and I run it with semi-synthetic Mobil oil 10W-40.

It's not as the consumption would disturb me much because the engine really pull strong and run on german highways a topspeed of +200 miles. I am just curious to know what experiences about oil consumption other cast iron sleeves LT5 owners did.

Sam

Are you actually burning oil? Bluish smoke and smell out the tail pipes? Or are you blowing oil through the PCV system?1 quart every 650 miles is a bit excessive. Even with 140,000 miles I was losing may be a quart every 1,000 or so.

[SAM/CH ZR-1]

Not at all.

My car only smoke a bit black when accelerate fast. While my engine was stock it also didn't use much oil with about 100'000 miles on the clock.

I think engines with iron sleeves like to take a bit oil. I spoke with some C6 Z06 owners and they told me their engines also take about 1/2 till 1 quart of all each 650 Miles.

[secondchance]

Oh yes, you are right. They are cast iron.
Nevertheless, my engine consume up to 1 quart of oil each 650 miles in spite of all new parts (pistons, liners, rings, valve steam seals etc.). It was correctly broken in and I run it with semi-synthetic Mobil oil 10W-40.

It's not as the consumption would disturb me much because the engine really pull strong and run on german highways a topspeed of +200 miles. I am just curious to know what experiences about oil consumption other cast iron sleeves LT5 owners did.

Sam

Did you stay w/ 3.9" pistons or go with 4" liners and pistons? L.A. sleeve liners? Which brand pistons?

[SAM/CH ZR-1]

4.030 JE Pistons and LA sleeves

Sam

[secondchance]

Once my car is completed I will share my result from oil consumption perspective. In general, if you are not burning nor leaking oil and yet see oil consumption suspicion is being blown out through the PCV system. Perhaps one of the LT5 gurus will chime in.

[nelson007]

HELLO YUN,
Did you do a complete compression check before you pulled apart .
Thanks,
Nelson

[XfireZ51]

Not at all.

My car only smoke a bit black when accelerate fast. While my engine was stock it also didn't use much oil with about 100'000 miles on the clock.

I think engines with iron sleeves like to take a bit oil. I spoke with some C6 Z06 owners and they told me their engines also take about 1/2 till 1 quart of all each 650 Miles.

Sam,

Look for a thread here where one of the members had oil consumption issues that were significantly improved w a more accurate tune/calibration. You mention black smoke when getting "on it". Too rich, maybe washing the oil off the liners?

[SAM/CH ZR-1]

Sam,

Look for a thread here where one of the members had oil consumption issues that were significantly improved w a more accurate tune/calibration. You mention black smoke when getting "on it". Too rich, maybe washing the oil off the liners?

The smoke is not exzessive and only happen brefly when accelerating hard. And the fuel milage is also fine.
The compression on all cylinders is also absolutely equal. It would be really interesting to share with other owners their oil consumption experiences.

Sam

[XfireZ51]

The smoke is not exzessive and only happen brefly when accelerating hard. And the fuel milage is also fine.
The compression on all cylinders is also absolutely equal. It would be really interesting to share with other owners their oil consumption experiences.

Sam

My bottom end is stock, so Nikasil liners. Motor has about 50k on it with ported top end and cams done. I drove to BG and back last weekend which covered about 1100mi. I'm down a quart. I use Castrol 15W-40 Diesel.

[secondchance]

HELLO YUN,
Did you do a complete compression check before you pulled apart .
Thanks,
Nelson

No. I saw no point in it. She still pulled 363 rwhp at 135,000 miles.

[secondchance]

#1 intake set up for camshaft timing.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0538_zpsaa88da10.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0538_zpsaa88da10.jpg.html)

A long story short, first TBC was determined and degree wheel set to 0. Then, camshafts were set up using factory dowel method to get them in proximity. Degree wheel method confirmed right side intake using dowel method yielded 118 degrees - 4 degrees off.
Degree wheel method on #1 cylinder and #6 cylinder was used to set intake @114 and exhaust @109.
Setting camshaft timing using degree wheel and digital gage is a long and mind bending experience for those who do this occasionally.
A great big THANK YOU Phil!!! - I am just a helper:cheers:

[secondchance]

Phil noticed carbon build up on the spark plug seats.

So, he makes a custom tool to plug the spark plug thread and cleaning tool that slips over the plug.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0540_zps5c895f76.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0540_zps5c895f76.jpg.html)

Windage tray and pick up.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0542_zps70d9df18.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0542_zps70d9df18.jpg.html)

Fully assembled minus oil filter housing and water pump.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0553_zps4aa42b12.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0553_zps4aa42b12.jpg.html)
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0554_zps9cafcb83.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0554_zps9cafcb83.jpg.html)

380 is finally complete for installation. Just need to install oil filter housing and water pump.

Thank you Phil, Jim, Lee, Jerry, Ryan and the WAZOO gang!

[A26B]

380 is finally complete for installation. Just need to install oil filter housing and water pump.

Thank you Phil, Jim, Lee, Jerry, Ryan and the WAZOO gang!

Thank you Yun, for letting us peek over your shoulder while building the engine. It's great to see a work of art like the LT5 go through an upgrade restoration.
It looks great and will surely draw a h_ly sh_t! from you the first time you put the hammer down through 3rd gear (my very favorite gear). Might be a good phone video from the passenger seat.;)

[Schrade]

Lookin' good!

Hopefully not a typical Z project, like mine seem so often to be, where it looks like I'm about done, and it turns out that I'm ABOUT started, actually...

[LGAFF]

Air Horn going out tomorrow

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/10396496_10152466508152743_776847564_n.jpg (http://s134.photobucket.com/user/lgaff/media/10396496_10152466508152743_776847564_n.jpg.html)

[secondchance]

Air Horn going out tomorrow

Forgot all about the airhorn! Shows how disoriented I am.
Any chance I can have it here by Saturday?
Motor is going in on Saturday and the drivetrain on Sunday.

[secondchance]

Lee,

Also, don't forget to send torx bolts for the airhorn please.

[LGAFF]

Ok, heading to FedEx now, will see what I can do...I thought the schedule was pushed out

[QB93Z]

Yun, If the air horn doesn't make it in time, I will provide a loaner. No Worries!

Jim

[secondchance]

Yun, If the air horn doesn't make it in time, I will provide a loaner. No Worries!

Jim

Thanks Jim! I totally forgot about this one...

[secondchance]

Saturday:

Arrival by Rich's truck.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0562_zpsc5a0a9b5.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0562_zpsc5a0a9b5.jpg.html)

Headers installed = all 28 bolts (later LT5s have 14 bolts per side).
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0564_zps226be283.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0564_zps226be283.jpg.html)

Dropped under the hood.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0565_zps52add033.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0565_zps52add033.jpg.html)

[/URL]

Darrin in action!
[URL="http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0573_zps2162348e.jpg.html"]http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0573_zps2162348e.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0569_zps8ce78ab1.jpg.html)

Jim doing something...
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0574_zpse2274892.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0574_zpse2274892.jpg.html)

Almost there!
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0579_zps3272dd2c.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0579_zps3272dd2c.jpg.html)

As of 7 pm today, intake plenum/throttle body, camshaft sensor, PROM (borrowing a limp home chip while waiting for Marc's new chip to deal with secondary removal) and exhaust.
Hopefully she will start with no issue...

WAZOO gang and out of town visitors showed up Saturday and Sunday to help - what a group!!!

Also check out "LT5 installation" in the General section posted by Jim.

[secondchance]

O.K. Since starting this thread on 7/18/2013 after concluding my head gasket had failed (actual failure happened on late April 2013) I declare my 380 project is 98% complete. I am expecting a PROM unit from Marc in 2-3 days and some fine tuning to continue.
I went up to Jim's garage yesterday and expected to wrap up in 2-3 hours. Boy, was I wrong. It took 7 hours of chasing some mundane problems to sort things out enough to turn the key. 380 LT5 started after about 3-4 seconds of cranking and came to life. Drove my Z around the block to make sure all vital signs are good and the car to be drivable before heading back to my home about 65 miles south of Jim's.
What a drive back home. To be able to drive without a fear of running my radiator dry AND running a brand new, bored and stroked (lightly) motor I actually helped build! It took a lot of restraint not to take her to the redline.
Just can't wait to put 500 miles, an oil change and take her out for a few revs to 7000 rpm!

Thank to all who actually made this possible and cheered me on. Now my Z is also a secondchance.

http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0580_zps2044a998.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0580_zps2044a998.jpg.html)

[LGAFF]

When is the dyno scheduled!:cheers: Congrats Yun!

[secondchance]

When is the dyno scheduled!:cheers: Congrats Yun!

Perhaps around 2,500-3,000 miles?
Thanks for your fine work and help!

[KILLSHOTS]

Outstanding! Congrats on the new baby! Gonna be killer when she's broken in!! :cheers:

[Racinfan83]

Awesome story! Sounds like a great bunch of guys there - very cool how they all work together to get this done. :cheers:

[Scrrem]

That's awesome Yun, I know you will be please with the outcome the first time you hit that 7,000 RPM mark!!

So, I guess you can now pick up where you left off with the brake upgrades :-D
Rich

[secondchance]

Now that I have about 500 miles and fresh oil and vacuum leak is fixed (thanks Jerry for thicker gaskets!) I went out for a drive and stepped on it up to 6,500. What a rush!!! Ask me if I miss secondaries?! - a little bit. Use to feel like opening up secondaries on four barrel carbs...:cheers:

[XfireZ51]

Do you miss your secondaries?

[Pete]

You notice all that low end torque you lost.

Pete

[Scrrem]

Yun,
It was great seeing your car looking good and running strong on Saturday and thanks for allowing me the test ride yesterday! It was a kick to drive and not have the lag of the seocndaries....WOW! It was great to get a preview of what my motor will be like in the months to come!
Rich

[Hog]

Looks great, glad you are happy. The extra 30 cubes will be fun.

[5ABI VT]

Congrats I am envious !! Gives me a little motivation to do my clutch install seeing all that work get done in such a short time ! I haven't even started driving mine this season :/

[secondchance]

Do you miss your secondaries?

Honestly NO! No change in drivability, no change in fuel consumption(nothing perceptible), runs really strong. Really clean under the plenum too.
Mind you, I am chasing a few things like light stumble as I tip into throttle after coasting in 5th around 1800 to 2000, seems to run rich at idle, rpm drop while idling (think I fixed that today by adjusting idle set screw, low oil pressure at idle, etc... Expecting the motor to run perfect after a major surgery is unrealistic. Imagine it will take awhile to get everything set up just right. All said and done, really happy with the result.
I developed a lot of respect for outfits like Lingenfelter, Marc, Pete and others to modify and deliver sorted out cars.

[secondchance]

Yun,
It was great seeing your car looking good and running strong on Saturday and thanks for allowing me the test ride yesterday! It was a kick to drive and not have the lag of the seocndaries....WOW! It was great to get a preview of what my motor will be like in the months to come!
Rich

Thanks. You are going to trump me with exhaust cams.

Pete,

What loss? If there were any loss, sure made it up with extra cube.

[LGAFF]

He was joking Yun, alot of people discuss the possibility of torque loss, but obviously Petes car runs 11.1 @129 without them.....so no real loss there

[secondchance]

He was joking Yun, alot of people discuss the possibility of torque loss, but obviously Petes car runs 11.1 @129 without them.....so no real loss there

I know he was being sarcastic. I followed those discussions.
Did I mention how awesome it sounds with extra cube, higher compression and cams?

[XfireZ51]

Honestly NO! No change in drivability, no change in fuel consumption(nothing perceptible), runs really strong. Really clean under the plenum too.
Mind you, I am chasing a few things like light stumble as I tip into throttle after coasting in 5th around 1800 to 2000, seems to run rich at idle, rpm drop while idling (think I fixed that today by adjusting idle set screw, low oil pressure at idle, etc... Expecting the motor to run perfect after a major surgery is unrealistic. Imagine it will take awhile to get everything set up just right. All said and done, really happy with the result.
I developed a lot of respect for outfits like Lingenfelter, Marc, Pete and others to modify and deliver sorted out cars.

Some of these issues won't be addressed mechanically.

[Hog]

He was joking Yun, alot of people discuss the possibility of torque loss, but obviously Petes car runs 11.1 @129 without them.....so no real loss there
Like a drag run would show any sort of torque loss that may or may not occur under 3000rpm, or at part throttle at low rpm.

[LGAFF]

Like a drag run would show any sort of torque loss that may or may not occur under 3000rpm, or at part throttle at low rpm.


I can see here we go with the pissing matches again.....and I always love the "you are a dumbass qualifiers" people feel compelled to add to their statements.....

"Like a ...
"If you think....

There is always a something given up to gain a return......he is getting the best of both worlds....larger cubes=more torque. Big Ports give more RPM....some loss in torque possibly but the top end more than makes up for it....

Super Cobrajet on the Coyote is an example....low end loss for high end power and better acceleration....

[Hog]

I can see here we go with the pissing matches again.....and I always love the "you are a dumbass qualifiers" people feel compelled to add to their statements.....

"Like a ...
"If you think........
I didnt mean to infer that you or your comments are "dumbass" my I apologize that you took it that way.

No pissing at all, hence the "loss that may or may not occur", but you made a statement that is not true. Eg. "So and so's car runs a good et, therefore it doesnt experience a torque loss." Not entirely true, depending on what is being discussed.
Pete's post was "ribbing" about the "supposed" LOW rpm torque loss, then you added to that with your torque vs ET theory. 2 different torque ranges by 2 different people were presented.

Rewritten,
"A drag run would not show any sort of torque loss that may or may not occur under 3000rpm, or at part throttle at low rpm. "



There is always a something given up to gain a return......he is getting the best of both worlds....larger cubes=more torque. Big Ports give more RPM....some loss in torque possibly but the top end more than makes up for it....

Super Cobrajet on the Coyote is an example....low end loss for high end power and better acceleration....

When speaking of WOT performance, I agree with you 100%. But there comes a point where you shift that torque/power curve so far to the left, that your 6th gear cruising may become impossible with a stock rear gear. Here in lies the whole point that GM went with AFM/VVT in the GEN 4/5 SBC engines. They are trying to win the power race(for increased sales)
, while still providing low rpm torque for everyday driving. Not everyone is willing to swap a rear gear to retain stock like driveability.
Of course increasing displacement will increase torque, all else equal.



I personally have no horse in the race, eliminate the Port Throttles, or leave em intact, do what you wish. But the discussions should be accurate as to not confuse others who are trying to learn and make decisions. If offering a counterpoint is considered pissing, I guess I am emptying my bladder. But I am pissing upwind in a build thread, I am sorry for my part in muddling it.
I defer further personal comment of Port Throttles to other threads.


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Secondchance, your plenum/cam covers are beautiful. Showing off the LT5 with style. Once you get her dialed, I'm sure your smiles will be even bigger!

[LGAFF]

My statement was simple...torque loss at low RPM or not the car still hauls ***....I don't need your Eval of what I was trying to say, as it was directed to the OP.

I was trying reassure someone the car is fine; I can cruise in 6th with no issues ...a 380 would certainly have no issues either.


My apologies Yun....

HOG, if you have a thought you want to express then say it, don't take my comment and try to use it like you need to correct me or How about starting your own thread about the specific issue.

Go reread my statement where do you get that I am misrepresenting something....simple statement, plenty of cars with secondary delete that are very drivable and make big power...

He was joking Yun, alot of people discuss the possibility of torque loss, but obviously Petes car runs 11.1 @129 without them.....so no real loss there

[Pete]

Guys I've said it before and I guess will say it again.

A stock ZR-1 makes 335-345 RW peak torque @ 5000+-RPM
My Z makes 335-340RW torque @ 3000 RPM

Lets say for argument sake a stock Z makes 200 RWTQ @ 1500 RPM
So what I'm understanding is now I make less RWTQ @ 1500RPM which means my dyno graph would look something like this.

Now if I lost torque at idle I will sacrifice.

Pete

[LGAFF]

You've probably heard various racers and engine builders/tuners talk about torque vs HP. Some say "torque is what moves the car", others say HP is all that matters. Well, you'll have to put me in the latter camp, because HP is the most important. Torque is how much twisting force you are putting on the drive shaft, typically measured in ft lbs. Horsepower is multiplying this twisting force by RPM (how fast you can keep applying this force).
If we didn't have gears, than torque would be more important. That's because in any 1 gear, the torque peak is where the car accelerates the quickest, producing the highest Gs. The torque peak can be important for launching the line, but after that HP is all that matters.
I'll try to illustrate with some numbers. Gears are torque multipliers. You can get most any torque you want, if you are willing to give up RPM. Say you have 400 ft lbs at 3000 RPM (228 HP) and 350 ft lbs at 6000 RPM (400 HP). If you stay in 3rd gear, you could get .4 Gs acceleration at 3000 (lets say 60 MPH) and .35 Gs of acceleration at 6000 (120 MPH). However, if you shifted 1st gear and put that 400 HP to work at 60 MPH, you could get, say .7 Gs of acceleration. You may accelerate the quickest in any 1 gear at the torque peak, but you will accelerate quicker in a lower gear at the HP peak.
Racing is all about quickest acceleration to get to the highest speed. Gears let you keep the acceleration high by keeping the engine in its highest HP range. For example, if your engine has peak HP at 6000 RPM, but pulls strong to 7000 RPM, you would probably want to shift at close to 7000 RPM, so when the revs drop back to, say, 5000 RPM, you are still in a high HP range.
Let's try some real examples, using Drag Racing Simulation Software. We'll try shifting to keep the engine around the torque peak, then letting the computer keeping the RPMs around the HP peak.
Condition Pk Tq Pk HP ET MPH Shift RPMs
Keep Engine at Tq Peak 270 274 13.43 99.46 4700
Computer keeps Engine at HP Peak 270 274 12.66 106.81 6800
Computer keeps Engine at HP Peak 270 268 12.60 107.74 6950
(broader HP peak)
Standard Power Curve
You can see the performance is much better when you keep the engine in the high HP range (12.66 ET) as opposed to the high torque range (13.43 ET). The graph below shows how keeping the engine in a higher HP range in lower gears produces higher acceleration rates.
To summarize, it is HP through the correct gear ratio which produces best performance. If you are building an engine, you want the highest average HP through the RPM range you will be using. For a circle track car where you don't shift, this can be a very broad RPM range. For drag racing with a high stall converter or very narrow ratio transmission, this may be a very narrow RPM range.

Kevin Gertgen graduated with a BS Mech Engr from Univ of MN, specializing in internal combustion engines. 12 years at Ford in the Engineering Center Dyno Lab and Transmission Dyno Lab. Started Performance Trends (http://www.performancetrends.com/) in 1986, doing software for engine and vehicle simulations. Kevin currently holds dozens of copyrights on engine, vehicle and testing programs



Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/1794731

[secondchance]

No apologies needed Hog and LGAFF.

I drove 91Z totally stock for 5 years and current one, 94 Z, more or less stock, for 14 years,

I decided to take out secondaries for 3 reasons:
1. Possibility of ingesting butterfly bolt.
2. Ability to port secondary intake ports more aggressively.
3. KISS principle.

Knowing cube increase will result in added torque took the guessing part out of secondary modification.

After 19 years of driving the same car (more or less), I felt a little change was in order. My Z is not as civilized as she use to be and personality change is more dramatic then I thought. Some may prefer the earlier version. As for me, it's refreshing and being able to bring her more in line with current generation performance cars is really entertaining. Taking a stock motor and making minor changes resulting in such dramatic personality change is fascinating.

[ALZR1]

Guys I've said it before and I guess will say it again.

A stock ZR-1 makes 335-345 RW peak torque @ 5000+-RPM
My Z makes 335-340RW torque @ 3000 RPM

Lets say for argument sake a stock Z makes 200 RWTQ @ 1500 RPM
So what I'm understanding is now I make less RWTQ @ 1500RPM which means my dyno graph would look something like this.

Now if I lost torque at idle I will sacrifice.

Pete


:happy1:

[Toni94ZR1]

Update:

Slight delay due to roof leakage at the shop where the engine will be pulled. Finally scheduled to have the motor pulled around the 28th.
In the meantime I sent a WAZOO spare crankshaft (thank you Phil!) to Ryan Bell (flyin ryan) who is with Rick Watters Racing in Glendale, AZ.
Ryan also helped me with selecting following parts:
4" Diamond 4032 Alloy Pistons 11.5:1 Compression
Diamond 4130 Pins
Total Seal Piston Ring Set - Standard Tension
Eagle ESP 4340 5.850" Connecting Rods

He will offset grind the crankshaft to 2" rod pins, stroke to 3.75", heat treat and index.

I bought main bearings from Kurt (great price!) and sent them to Ryan so that he can check the total assembly before shipping it back.

Once the motor is disassembled the plenum and IHs will be sent to Lee for porting. As for the throttle body, I might stay with 58 mm for now - keeping the cost down.

Ryan has been a tremendous help and took all the guess work out. What do I know... Of course, Phil has been advising me along the way also.

Thanks guys!!!

Hi all from Barcelona (Spain)
Thank you Yun. Very complete thread on how to build a 380 LT5 .
For dowse of us overseas very useful to find parts for 380 upgrade.
As I would like to have all the technical spec to know if I could do the offset crankshaft grind to 2" here in Barcelona, when you said "heat treat and index" what do you mean? Once the offset rod pin are done need to do a heat treat on each rod pin ? What do you mean index the crank?

Thank you guys !

[LGAFF]

How is the car running, any dyno results???

[SAM/CH ZR-1]

I've got a question:

What gap are you using on piston oil rings?

Sam

[secondchance]

Hi all from Barcelona (Spain)
Thank you Yun. Very complete thread on how to build a 380 LT5 .
For dowse of us overseas very useful to find parts for 380 upgrade.
As I would like to have all the technical spec to know if I could do the offset crankshaft grind to 2" here in Barcelona, when you said "heat treat and index" what do you mean? Once the offset rod pin are done need to do a heat treat on each rod pin ? What do you mean index the crank?

Thank you guys !


Hi Toni,

Didn't mean to ignore you. I must have missed your post.
Heat treat is, after regrind, heat/cooling process to harden the surface. I am no expert so I am pasting an excerpt.

"The typical heat-treating process for carbon-steel alloys is first to transform the structure of the rough-machined part into the face-centered-cubic austenite crystalline structure (‘austenitize’) by heating the part in an oven until the temperature throughout the part stabilizes in the neighbourhood of 1550°F to 1650°F (depending on the specific material). Next, the part is removed from the heating oven and rapidly cooled ("quenched") to extract heat from the part at a rate sufficient to transform a large percentage of the austenitic structure into fine-grained martensite. The desired martensitic post-quench crystalline structure of the steel is the high-strength, high-hardness, form of the iron-carbon solution. The rate of cooling required to achieve maximum transformation varies with the hardenability of the material, determined by the combination of alloying elements.
Distortion and induced residual stress are two of the biggest problems involved in heat-treating. Less severe quenching methods tend to reduce residual stresses and distortion. Some alloys (EN-30B and certain tool steels, for example) can reach full hardness by quenching in air. Other alloys having less hardenability can be quenched in a bath of 400°F molten salt. Still others require quenching in a polymer-based oil, and the least hardenable alloys need to be quenched in water. The shock of water-quenching is often severe enough to crack the part or induce severe residual stresses and distortions. As the hardenability of a material decreases, the hardness (thus strength) varies more drastically from the surface to the core of the material. High hardenability materials can reach much more homogeneous post-quench hardness."

Indexing, as I meant, was spin balancing of the crank shaft to minimize any imbalance when spinning.

These procedures are what was recommended by the shop and those who know how to build high performance engines.

[secondchance]

I've got a question:

What gap are you using on piston oil rings?

Sam

I'll find out. Short block was assembled by an engine builder at the machine shop.