ZR-1 set up for autocross

[emmvette]

I've been lurking here for a while and have searched the forum a bit but haven't come up with much regarding the ZR-1 and autocross. I have a '68 and an '04 Z06 and have been contemplating selling the Z06 and buying a ZR-1. Any thoughts on this? It kind of seems like the Z06 might be set up better for autocross due to lower weight, and better (more modern) handling capabilities. Does the ZR-1 really need more space to shine and use the higher RPMs where it excels?

Would the a ZR-1 be better for HPDE / track days? If I do this, I wouldn't be looking for a garage queen, and my tastes usually are for something non-standard. Of the ZR-1 cars for sale that I like, they tend to be non stock (a ported 350, or a 385, 402, DRM500, or LPE ) and yellow, black, purple, or turquise all interest me.

I don't have the space or funds for 3 cars; and the '68 is a keeper that I've spend a lot of hours restoring. It's got a unique wide body and is a fun car.

What are your thoughts on getting a ZR-1 to use a track and autocross car? I realize this forum is biased, but I'm looking for opinions, so please share.

[tpr60]

HI, I have two 1990 zr1's and am looking to sell one an buy a c5 zo6, maybe we should talk. I regularly autocross a c3 old road race Corvette. PM me and we can talk.

Bob

[ZZZZZR1]

If you haven't driven a ZR-1, please do. I know quite a few ZR-1 owners who track their cars and some who are original owners...

Relatively easy to make them track ready.

The "seat of your pants" power will sell you! Please ask a ZR-1 owner what a PERMAGRIN is!

:cheers:

David

[SteelBlueZR1]

The ZR-1 definately excels on faster autocross and race courses, due to the high-end power. However, I have autocrossed my ZR-1 on slower courses with street tires and beat many newer Corvettes, the secret being that my car is aligned to the autocross specs (per the ZR-1 performance addendum that came with the car in the pizza box).

[gbrtng]

PM sent

[mgg]

Even though I own ZR-1 I would suggest that athough competent you are already at a disadvantage when it comes to auto-xing. Compared to a well prepared C4 you are looking at significantly more weight on the front tires and more car to slow down. The one advantage of the ZR-1 would be on a very slow course that an L98 would have to use second gear you might get away with only using first with standard gearing and have an advantage with less shifts. Now before everyone who owns a ZR-1 has a cow with what I am saying, The car is certainly capable and VERY much fun to drive in an autox. The problem is when you start to mod the car to help control its weakness it may throw you into a higher class that will make it very difficult to win ( based on whos in your class). I competed in autoxing with prepared L98 car from 1991 through 2000. I attended countless autoxes many at national levels and I NEVER witnessed a ZR-1 that was contending for FTD. They are NOT slow but are heavy and the lack of low end torques in an auotx can be problematic. YOU can certainley have fun, be competitive but I think it unrealistic with a stock car that you will win if thats what your goal is. If you just want to have a good time. it will be a blast! As far as track days is concerned you nedd to address possible cooling issues. Also a front brake upgrade would be in order. I would suggest for the money , the Rippie sold Wilwood GNs. six piston. THe coleman rotors can be purchased very inexpensively compared to others. THis package is nothing at all like the 6 piston superlights. This is a SERIOUS race brake package. Using PFC 01s this brake package is fantastic especially for the money. Your C5 Z06 in the hands of great drivers dominated super stock in SCCA and won national championships many years in a row. Also a set of "A" compound hoosiers now are going for about $1500.00. Wow! I love my ZR-1 and it would be fun to autox it but if you are thinking about bringing home trophies I think you need to be realistic. I will say that I have driven many C5 Z06s and many C4 corvettes and there is something special about the LT5 and I love it. THe history and the significance of these cars make it one othe MOST important corvettes in the history of the car. I hope you enjoy one if you purchase it half as much as I enjoy mine.

[Kevin]

the LT5 is a heavy motor, I want to say it's around 600lbs, and it's all over the nose. The handling is not as sharp as the C5 or C6 but what 20+ year old car handles better then it's current brethren? The ZR-1 is a great car but it has issues, as has been pointed out it's nose heavy and with the stock cooling system it bypasses the rad and flows back into the block above 5,000 rpm, you can get rid of this with an aftermarket rad and a modified T-Stat but since you're looking at modded cars doesn't seem to be an issue. The frame is also an issue, it was designed in the late 70's and it tends to flex, if I was buying one for a track toy I'd get a ported 350 with a roll bar. The sound is intoxicating and it's a blast to drive but I don't know if i'd ever use one as a track car...that being said I do know of a 368 with a cage coming up for sale next year I have my eye on, now I just my bank account to agree

[emmvette]

I appreciate the responses; all very good input!

I have driven a ZR-1, but was not impressed; I think because it had been beat on way too much for years and needed some TLC. I've ridden in another and had a blast, but didn't drive that one.

I didn't think about the extra weight over the front wheels, but realistically I'm not looking to have the quickest time; just to have a lot of fun!

[Fully Vetted]

I have driven a ZR-1, but was not impressed...

:jawdrop:I can honestly say I have never seen this group of words put together to form this sentence. I almost couldn't read it. It was like all the letters were just jumbled together. I think 'Vote Obama" comes out of my mouth easier. Or, "Here, take my gun. I don't want it."

[Funracer]

:jawdrop:I can honestly say I have never seeing this group of words put together to form this sentence. I almost couldn't read it. It was like all the letters were just jumbled together. I think 'Vote Obama" comes out of my mouth easier. Or, "Here, take my gun. I don't want it."

:-D

[rhipsher]

I appreciate the responses; all very good input!

I have driven a ZR-1, but was not impressed; I think because it had been beat on way too much for years and needed some TLC. I've ridden in another and had a blast, but didn't drive that one.

I didn't think about the extra weight over the front wheels, but realistically I'm not looking to have the quickest time; just to have a lot of fun! I have driven more than a handful of ZR-1's that range from bone stock to ones with medium mods to full out $30k LPE stroker . Mine is what I would consider a medium mods car with ported top end, a few chip mods, open air sensor relocate, Forced air, A Spec stage 3 plus clutch kit, Fidanza flywheel, And a complete poly bushing kit. From the outside it looks fairly stock but it will walk away from a bone stalk one easily. But then there are the fully blown (I have more money than you) strokers Complete with not only all the same mods that mine has but with $30k in engine work equipped with all the best goodies like Wilwood brakes, Coilover shocks, Fiskes 335's that are blistering fast and would be a football field ahead of mine in seconds. But there are not allot of those out there. So if your looking for one that looks stock but performs better than a stock one just get a medium modified one. I don't think the bone stock ones are that impressive either but back in the day they were the bomb.

[Kevin]

:jawdrop:I can honestly say I have never seeing this group of words put together to form this sentence. I almost couldn't read it. It was like all the letters were just jumbled together. I think 'Vote Obama" comes out of my mouth easier. Or, "Here, take my gun. I don't want it."

a zr-1 that's running poorly isn't impressive. a properly running one on the other hand

[emmvette]

:jawdrop:I can honestly say I have never seeing this group of words put together to form this sentence. I almost couldn't read it. It was like all the letters were just jumbled together. I think 'Vote Obama" comes out of my mouth easier. Or, "Here, take my gun. I don't want it."

Ouch, I didn't mean to offend anybody; I would certainly never dream of the words "V0t@ Ob0m@" coming out of my mouth, and you see I can't even type the letters.....

The vette I drove is still for sale, so as a courtesy, I'm not going to mention it, but it was as mentioned above a "medium" mod car, top end job, upgraded chip/tune, brakes, exhaust, headers, Fiske rims, .... but it was not anywhere close to as fun to drive or as quick as the Z06 I have. It was a real disappointment for me, as I drove the better part of a day to go look at it after a lot of anticipation. As I mentioned earlier in this thread it had been heavily used and was also probably way out of tune; and needed some work. I'm also guessing that some of the mods may not have been done as well as they could have been. Anybody who reads this forum knows that not every port job was as good as it could have been.

My tendency is to like things that aren't necessarily current; I like tube stereos, LPs over CDs, old houses rather than new, and I'd love to have a C4 ZR1 to compliment my '68. The reason I bought the Z06 was after spending almost every weekend for 3 years restoring the '68 and still not being finished - I wanted a corvette I could just get in and go and not worry about fixing something. The Z06 with under 10k miles fit the bill. After making that decision a few years ago, I am realizing that I still don't drive the Z06 much and just maybe the right ZR1 will find its way into my garage one day.

Sounds like there are a number of 450-500 HP ZR-1's in Illinois. If any you live near DeKalb and would be interested in taking me for a ride sometime, let me know. I'm over this way for work every 4-6 weeks. I'd love to see how a ZR-1 in good condition runs.

[emmvette]

Here is the '68. I have a lot of hours of work in the car. I didn't do all the work myself, but as much as I could. And since I wasn't tought much about wrenching on cars growing up, it took me a long time to do some things....

I probably have 100 hours of sanding, buffing, and painting in each set of rims alone....

With the American Racing 200s rims and BFG tires:

http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss217/emmvette/Vette%20Photos%202010/caraudoi043.jpg


with Ansen Slots and race tires
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss217/emmvette/IMG_1448_zps3775b6c4.jpg

[rhipsher]

That's beautiful man. Great job.

[WARP TEN]

...... The reason I bought the Z06 was after spending almost every weekend for 3 years restoring the '68 and still not being finished - I wanted a corvette I could just get in and go and not worry about fixing something. The Z06 with under 10k miles fit the bill. After making that decision a few years ago, I am realizing that I still don't drive the Z06 much and just maybe the right ZR1 will find its way into my garage one day.

Sounds like there are a number of 450-500 HP ZR-1's in Illinois. If any you live near DeKalb and would be interested in taking me for a ride sometime, let me know. I'm over this way for work every 4-6 weeks. I'd love to see how a ZR-1 in good condition runs.

Hi emmvette--
I am in Lake Bluff--a bit north of you. I have a 22k mile 95 with what you would call middle mods--porting, no secondaries, headers, Corsa, 4:10s, but no Fidanza and with cats. Marc Haibeck did the work and it is excellent. About 486 HP at the crank; lose the cats and add a Fidanza and it is 510 all day long. But my point is that I use it as a daily driver whenever the weather is nice. (Not so much earlier this year but lots recently). They are reallly very reliable cars--just old C4s that with the exception of the engine any Chevy mechanic can fix. And for the engine you are very close to Marc, Pete, Al and others with great mechanical knowledge. Marc has done nothing but C4 ZR-1s since he got his 1993 in 1993. So I certainly wouldn't be worried about having a ZR-1 as a daily driver. And if you plan to be up in my area you are welcome to try out old WARP TEN anytime. Just send me a PM and we can arrange it. --Bob

[Fully Vetted]

Ouch, I didn't mean to offend anybody; I would certainly never dream of the words "V0t@ Ob0m@" coming out of my mouth, and you see I can't even type the letters.....

Hey, no harm, no foul, no worries. Just not something I see very often.

[Hotdogand6pack]

A c4 zr-1 is far better suited for track days and hpde. Autocross, not so much. The advantage of the lt5 pans out on long straights or uphill corners. The long torque curve means less shifting and more torque when you want it, and less torque when you fear it by short shifting.The lt5 has a pull advantage over any other corvette, that being whether at 3500 or 6500 rpm the gas pedal is still a Go-Lever. If you would like to see a stock zr-1 stack up against modern competition at an hpde, check my post, "a funny thing happened on the way to the forum" in this board.

[emmvette]

Thanks for the replies!. I've made my decision. Hopefully by early next week I'll own a ZR-1... We'll see what the weekend roadtrip brings; you never know what could follow a guy home!

[emmvette]

Road trip underway...

[batchman]

Good luck with your trip!

Regarding autocross, unless you're ready for some work stick with the c5z. I am still working on developing ours and thought it could be competitive in BSP, at least until the s2000 started showing up ;). This class allows suspension, brake and power mods along with some weight reduction. Of course the weight that you can remove can also be removed from a lighter c4 so we'll always be 100+ lbs heavier, but I think the advantages still work out.

The tire footprint is stunning, both in use and when you buy 'em ;). What I find these days though is the tire capability exceeds that of the hubs, both front and rear become routine couple-per-season wear items.

The torque curve is not an issue, and as pointed out above the rpm range with the gearing makes parking lot events first gear secret weapon time. Of course autocrossing in first gear takes some practice. I still would like to go to the allowed in-class 3.54 gear, which I think benefits this car more than an L98/LT1/LT4.

Suspension is soft out of the box, and they used not only a slow steering rack but also a canvas rag joint. NVH at the price level drove them to soften it up a bit in these non-obvious ways. I had to campaign for a rules change to get update/backdate allowed across all c4's, they were afraid if the zr-1 was in the same part swap group someone could cook up an automatic based monster but of course that won't work with off-the-shelf parts. I got the rules changed and I've swapped the rack and the rag joint, doubled the spring rates and am fixing to do so again now with some reservoir shocks.

Brakes give massive understeer compared to z51 c4's. Still working on that one.

I still think with porting, aluminum flywheel and that little more gear this car would be the power king in this class. Back to your thoughts vs the c5 z06 though, please note the according to my class factoring if I do all these mods plus remove the 200lbs that I can legitimately ditch I will be prepped to class and my class handicap factor is very close to that of the stock z06.

But autocross ain't everything. If you want to sneak something truly fast under the radar a c4 is the way to go LOL - nobody expects it to move like that!

Cheers,
- Jeff

[emmvette]

Trip went well! 2100 miles in two days hauling an empty trailer for half and a full trailer for the second half. Fortunately, my daughter was able to go along - that really helped and we had a lot of fun! Here are a couple quick pictures after cleaning it up.




http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss217/emmvette/ZR-1/P1060267-crop_zpse20909b0.jpg

http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss217/emmvette/ZR-1/P1060274_zpsd77d4dae.jpg