Wanna Go Fast Day 1

[cvette98pacecar]

Today the fastest car was the GTR Alpha Omega 208 MPH.

[ALZR1]

Today the fastest car was the GTR Alpha Omega 208 MPH.

that is fast,I wonder what it does in the 1/4 MPH.


Al.

[LancePearson]

any zr-1's run Sat? What did they do? I know Paul Workman is scheduled to run his f.b.i. today I believe and others too probably. Very interested to see how the 1990's tuned Z's run.

[LancePearson]

the gtr is 1700 hp and 1/4 mile time is 8.62, trap speeds well up around 171 or so...see the details in the link. top speed 238 mph gear limited it says. http://amsperformance.com/builds/ams-shop-vehicles/ams-alpha-omega-gtr

[JThomas]

I hope all of you guys have a SAFE and fast day! Enjoy and keep us posted. :cheers:

[LGAFF]

I am hearing rumors a certain 350 was outrunning some new ZR1s.....

[XfireZ51]

Pete ran 154 TWICE. Very consistent.

[LancePearson]

Paul workman ran what with his fbi 500 hp?

[XfireZ51]

I ran a 143 first run. This was for a roll and w ASR ON. However, the 200ft roll was subtracted from the overall length of the course. The roll was at about 40mph. Second run was from a dig up against a Porsche Turbo. He wanted to start from a dig which surprised me given wanting turbos to spool up. I ended that run w a 139. I lifted about 200ft from the finish. It was real fun and I need a few more runs under my belt to get used to going beyond the 1/4 mile.
The Porsche on the other hand "broke" coming out of the hole. I later found out his gearshift linkage had popped out. He later ran a 140.
A number of people came over saying things like, " I've never seen an LT-5 in person." Or " I don't think I have ever seen more than 2 ZR-1s, how come all you guys are here." Sounded like some people thought the C4 ZR-1 is a mythical beast. :-D

[LancePearson]

I'd say anything over 140 is moving right along. Some of the 415's and highly tuned might, like I heard on another forum that one of our cars ran two 154's, etc. do faster but I didn't realize until yesterday looking at past 1/2 wannagofast videos that it was a rolling start. That should help our cars I'd think and to hit 143 or 150 or 154 or more in 1896 net feet from the 40 mph cones is hustling right along. Man, that's six football fields to be going 2/3's of a football field every second. There's always someone faster. One GTr there has 1700 hp and he ran 208....but for our cars at their ages without turbos or superchargers to run 140 and up, I think is pretty good. I'd also wonder if a mid ratio rear end in a rolling for speed not for time would not be better to get higher total speed than a 4:10 rear end.

When all the numbers are published it will be interesting. Some of those Porsches and 6.0 liter Lamborghini's, et al, are really fast but when you are tuned to 700 hp or more you ought to be.

Way to go. I'd be darned happy with my car to get anywhere over 130 with the more or less stock nature of it. Cool that you did it.

Congrats. And....the good news....you got to drive it home and nothing broke!

Lance

[XfireZ51]

Yeah a 200" roll to 40 isn't the same as using those 200' accelerating from 0.
Kevin's 441 ran twin 159-160
Al's first run was at 150
I think Marc ended up around 147 but I am sure he'll chime in.
It was difficult to find a car that was running and didn't have a turbine whine to it.
The Alpha Omega GTR broke the record again today at 214. They were going at it with a private Mitsubishi Eclipse that did 209. Something else watching these cars popping chutes to slow down.
The air was great for runs but the weather sucked. It actually got colder towards the afternoon which was one reason I left after 2 runs. But I would definitely do it again.
White Gallardo running 197-199 looked like a ground missle. The acceleration from these cars once in second gear was just amazing. It sounded like a jet taking off.

[LancePearson]

Sounds almost like a demarcation line between naturally aspirated and either turbo or supercharged engines today....be interesting to see what any modern 6.2 liter supercharged ZR-1's did today. Last listing of a prior wannagofast 1/2 on their site when I downloaded it the speeds above 150 would have wiped all the modern zo6's away and anything over 155 would have taken the modern zr1's listed as well so it's not shabby. But, to go more than 160 or so must take enormous power.

Still, to hustle 150 plus mph in 1896 feet is hauling the mail where I come from. I honestly could never handle 200 mph in that distance....there's no way I ever had the reflexes for things happening that fast.

Wonder how fast an F22 Raptor fighter jet taxies to rotate airborne? Less than all the numbers you put up here not to mention slower at takeoff than the white Lambo or the GTR probably and he's got a whole lotta thrust pushing him, 70,000 pounds worth at what, 120 knots or so?

good job...btw, I spoke with one member who added twin turbos to his lt5....it makes an LPE resleave job look cheap.

[Pete]

This was my first time running anything past a 1/4 and i had a blast.
This was a great turn out for the ZR-1's i think we had 10 ZR-1's.

I was happy with my MPH could i have gone faster maybe but 1 more MPH or 2 would not made any difference to me and i do not need to break my Z to get it,i also needed her to get me back home
I tell you guys 1/2 mile sounds long but boy at 150+mph it comes up fast.

I'm very impressed with all of our Z's today we all ran very well,heck we were the only N/A cars there and running good numbers with 30 year old technology.
If they had fastest N/A street car we would've won that trophy today.

Pete

[LancePearson]

Good speeds, Pete. Did you have any issues slowing down, plenty of room?

I read somewhere that a few cars went off the track and spun in the grass over the weekend. That would be very frightening to me. The place looks like it was good for the purpose on what video I saw on the Chicago site.

Way to go....and you kept the right side up!

Lance

[Paul Workman]

Yes, it was a thrill, for sure - even more so if you are late on the brakes [-X and run off the end of the strip...[sigh]...like someone did.:(:(

But, the good news is (I hope) it is limited to front end damage, including the hood. Looks like the end of my driving season came early this year. I'm pretty stiff this morning - lower back muscles and neck muscles are pretty stiff this morning, but other than my pride being bruised we'll both live to race another day!

My first (and only, unfortunately) run was 143.14 mph from a rolling start from 20 mph at some distance from the starting line. The consensus is that running from a dig would have yielded a better result; fortified by the experience of others that did a rolling vs. dig start. But, I gotta say, she ran real well, and "in the pack" with the other 500 packages:). We'll give it another shot next year maybe.

I held the HEART OF THE BEAST to include the results of the event, so as to include all the results. I gotta tell ya, it was a fantastic showing of ZR-1s, and they really kicked butt in the NA class! Looking forward to the final tally.

Stay tuned to this channel for photos and latest developments: dancing

P.

[LancePearson]

Glad you are okay!

[LancePearson]

Paul,
You were hardly alone...here's a gtr that hit the brakes and tears right off the track to the left and the photos of what happened to it in the bushes...I saw that it came back and ran later but minus the entire front clip. Don't quite understand why it veered like that. Could be lotsa things.

there's a video embedded in a Chicago forum as well of it happening

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVaw4B_SAGw&feature=player_embedded

[dredgeguy]

Wow, that looks like a blast. Congats to to the FBI group for a great showing. It would be interesting to have a list of your times and what gears you are running.
Just think, if this was scheduled a day after BG we could arrange tail of the dragon, BG and then 1/2 mile!

[FU]

If they had fastest N/A street car we would've won that trophy today.


And that is something to be very proud of !

[Toyvet1]

That GTR ran a 174b with the rear wing. They ran the car without the wing and ran 178, after the run the car went off course and spun in ther mud a few times. After a little cleaning up it ran 174 the way it looks in the photos....

[kcl98]

Pete beat the stock C6 ZR1s from what I could see, in spite of less cubes and no boost - truly amazing! I just wish I could've wagered some C6 or foreign car guy on that before the cars ran. I had a feeling he could beat them heads up and told him so last month at BG. I talked to one of the C6 ZR1 guys later and confirmed that his best was 153mph - not good enough for Pete's 153.8!

Congrats Pete! Your Frankenstein monster that sits in my garage did pretty good too. 159 & change. I raced a souped up turbo Nissan 350Z that ran 166.5mph in my first race. He had the faster trap speed, but I was way out in front of him, beat him on the square by 5-6 cars at least I think. Not uncommon for automatics with slower trap speeds to have better ETs. Too bad there were no clocks. The overdrive held up ok - no issues, so hope the new transmission mods put an end to my problems there.

I would've loved to see Al get a run from a "dig". I have to think he'd run every bit of 163+ since our setup is so similar except for the 6-speed which should be worth a few mph.

[XfireZ51]

Kevin,

Absolutely on Al's car. And I am even sorrier now that BobG. didn't come w the 427. That would have been a show. Does anybody recall any cars running as fast as ours that were NOT FI cars?

[RyanChappel]

They are quite grabby unless preheated....Indy cars have this issue..It looked like the GTR that spun had a left front brake grab as he stood on them pretty hard....I was amazed to learn that the fastest GTR was running 35 lbs of boost and a 4 liter engine...

[LancePearson]

For engines and cars designed in 1985 or so, that ain't too shabby, guys. Apples to apples you done good, real good. It sure puts the new C7 vette into a kind of perspective offering a two valve pushrod engine at 455 hp all these years later.

They better do a faster model asap or they are going to face people going elsewhere for more hp.

[XfireZ51]

Ryan,

That particular GTR from Topspeed had its rear wing removed prior to that run. I guess they wanted to see how much drag the wing was putting on the car. I guess when he hit the brakes, others watching it said he unloaded the rear and it snapped around on him.

Lance,

There wasn't one car there that would have lasted a fraction of the 24hours that the ZR-1 did in the Endurance run. They were all very fast, very high strung and likely pushed to the max. Remind me of
Roman candles.

[LancePearson]

Man, I would love to have seen the two days. I don't for a minute doubt your comment about durability. My mind just keeps wandering from 1985 or so and concept and boosting a dohc 6.2 liter lt5 and wondering just what in the heck is possible with speed had they continued to evolve the platform. Looks like the modern ZR1 supercharged approach is a touch old fashioned in some ways, especially what you have to pay to buy one.

I'm happier with my 1991 Z all the time. Eventually we'll get to see some videos of the Z's running. You guys did great.

[kcl98]

BTW - the peak (lowest) density altitude for the day was 323 ft above sea-level - very good for the most part. It is about the same DA as a day in October 2011 when I was at US41 and ran my best numbers of 10.44 @ 133.0mph. Trying to compare apples to apples, if the car ran 159 in the 1/2 and 133 in the 1/4, it looks like I pick up about 26mph "on the big end" of the 1/2. Pete is about the same with a 154 off of a 129 in the 1/4. Perhaps big inch 6-speeds like Bob and Al might pick up a bit more than 26 from closer ratio gearing, maybe they could gain 27-30mph off their best 1/4 trap speeds. I'd lean towards the high end of that range because I think the quartering head wind that we had probably cost me 160+ as opposed to if we had a no wind yesterday. These guys might've popped a 165 if all went well.

KC

[XfireZ51]

Kevin,

If only it had been today dammit!

[cvette98pacecar]

What a great time. Next year we need to get more video footage.

http://hwww.youtube.com/watch?v=7WLgVx7JliI&list=HL1370317386 (www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WLgVx7JliI&list=HL1370317386")

[LancePearson]

Nice run Robert. What was your speed on that run?

Lance

[scottfab]

Woo hoo. great sound !
Need split vid of road and dash.

[cvette98pacecar]

Nice run Robert. What was your speed on that run?

Lance

139.8 MPH

[Paul Workman]

139.8 MPH

Tojah the RED VETTES are faster!!! (they just don't stop as good, I guess:o)

[LancePearson]

139.8 MPH

Looked faster to me! Nice clean run though. Must have been fun

[cvette98pacecar]

Tojah the RED VETTES are faster!!! (they just don't stop as good, I guess:o)

Paul, I'm thinking the reduced HP and additional 600 pounds had something to do with the MPH difference.
I knew my car would be a considerable amount slower. We will be working on that for next year.
HMMM, Now that I think about it. I do have a red ZR-1. Maybe next year we can bring two or three. I am sure the wife would have drove the ruby.

[cvette98pacecar]

Woo hoo. great sound !
Need split vid of road and dash.

Scott, I forgot the mount for the second go pro camera in the ruby.
GoPro was suppose to be at the event and I could not find them.

[LancePearson]

Robert,
I know very little about the Callaway other than they existed. I interpret what you are saying as the model you have, Aerobody, with the design changes, body, etc. weighs 600#'s more than a normal stock ZR-1 of the same vintage. Is that correct or is the 600#'s a big Gorilla or two, Like Workman once he was out of a ride, who chose to ride along?

Lance Pearson

[cvette98pacecar]

Robert,
I know very little about the Callaway other than they existed. I interpret what you are saying as the model you have, Aerobody, with the design changes, body, etc. weighs 600#'s more than a normal stock ZR-1 of the same vintage. Is that correct or is the 600#'s a big Gorilla or two, Like Workman once he was out of a ride, who chose to ride along?

Lance Pearson

Lance I just looked up the kit it is 200#, Plus 150# of Dynamat and Dynapad that I added last summer (which Pete was correct when he said "It looks to me like you are adding weight to your car", and an overweight driver comes to more like 450#.
There were no riders allowed.

[LancePearson]

You're not going to hear any overweight driver comments from me! People in glass houses and all that! I was kidding as Paul's day got cut a tad short.

The Big Bend Open and Sand Hills races you need a navigator to give you road configurations coming up because you are driving to match an average speed you've registered as a class to compete in, 130, 140, etc. At those speeds on unfamiliar roads someone studying map and calling out approaches, "right turn 65 degrees half mile...." would be invaluable. Different things.

Still, I like your video and you did very well it seems to me.

Lance

[cvette98pacecar]

You're not going to hear any overweight driver comments from me! People in glass houses and all that! I was kidding as Paul's day got cut a tad short.

The Big Bend Open and Sand Hills races you need a navigator to give you road configurations coming up because you are driving to match an average speed you've registered as a class to compete in, 130, 140, etc. At those speeds on unfamiliar roads someone studying map and calling out approaches, "right turn 65 degrees half mile...." would be invaluable. Different things.

Still, I like your video and you did very well it seems to me.

Lance

I would like to do the Silver City run some year.

[LancePearson]

Robert,
There's another one in new mexico but it's like the Silver State Classic on 318 near Ely, Nev....6400 feet of elevation. How would our cars run at those elevations?

The Silver State the first year you are limited to the 125 mph class and down so if you wanted to really let it out the 90 miles you'd have to do it more than one year if you wanted to try the 140 mph class which is what I was at one time daydreaming about until I put the pencil to the costs to get the car to Texas, Nebraska, New Mexico or now Nevada. I think these races are fascinating as they are longer.

If you go let us all know and I'd bet you can get a good navigator from the group to fly out and navigate with you.

Cool idea.

Lance

[XfireZ51]

Here's a good compilation of runs from the WGF event. None of us are in it but you can get an idea.

http://youtu.be/8nhYQ7Fj5l4

[XfireZ51]

GTR doing pirouette at 175mph

http://youtu.be/eFeqlOsrN00

[XfireZ51]

Here's a fun one from Georgia WGF.

C4Z v C6Z

http://youtu.be/o1MITTYsoMQ

[cvette98pacecar]

I will have some Helicopter footage of my last run in the next two weeks. That should give everything a different perspective.

[Funracer]

Here's a fun one from Georgia WGF.

C4Z v C6Z

http://youtu.be/o1MITTYsoMQ

Turn the volume up. Great sound in the valley. Smoke from the C4.

[LancePearson]

On Facebook with the wgf site they said they were headed back to Florida, would have results posted in spread sheet form in two weeks.

[Hog]

Here's a fun one from Georgia WGF.

C4Z v C6Z

http://youtu.be/o1MITTYsoMQ

What was the terminal velocity for these 2? I'm not sure if it's an optical illusion or not, but it appeared that the C4 was pulling close ro the C6.

Nice vid.

peace
Hog

[Hog]

Very nice runs everyone, glad everyone was safe. That looks like a very enjoyable way to burn some hydrocarbons.

peace
Hog

[Paul Workman]

For engines and cars designed in 1985 or so, that ain't too shabby, guys. Apples to apples you done good, real good. It sure puts the new C7 vette into a kind of perspective offering a two valve pushrod engine at 455 hp all these years later.

They better do a faster model asap or they are going to face people going elsewhere for more hp.

I believe you're right, Lance. Let's face it: Corvettes, at least for us WARRIORS, are for sport. And where sports like these are held, 455 crank hp is not going to win the hearts and minds of those watching them get their heads handed to them: just don't feel good.

I haven't seen the results tally - wasn't there yet this morning, but I believe the ZR-1s in the NA class did very, very well for ourselves.

Case in point: I came to the line with a guy with an LSx in a pickup. I believe he said it dyno'ed around 420 rwhp. It really sounded nasty when he fired it up - lots of overlap on the cam - idled at about 900 rpm ("rumpity-rumpity-rumpity!") - very choppy idle.

We agreed on a rolling start, and we hammered it together at about 30-40 (I dunno - was watching to keep even w/ him). He jumped me by 1-1/2 length immediately, and held on and even gained a couple feet in the first couple seconds elapsed. Then he shifted into second. That is when he stopped gaining and began to slip back as my tach swept past 6000 rpm and the LT5 was pulling very hard. By the time I shifted into second, the LS was fading...fast! And, by the time my shift light came on again (at 7100 rpm), he was dropping back rapidly as the LT5 poured it on, and the aerodynamics started playing too.

When I shifted into third, it was all over for the lumpy LS. The air was cool and dense (Kevin said the DA was around 340 - 350 (something like that)) and the thrill I was getting was like my first big roller-coaster ride as a kid. My heart was pounding, and I heard a big "YEEHAH!" from somewhere inside my helmet, crossing the 1/2 mile mark near the top of 4th gear.

You all shoulda been there!!! Geeze was that fun!!

I mean think about it: The 5.7L LT5s were taking no prisoners from cars with bigger displacement and big custom cams... Pete turning in a pair of 154s; beating a new ZR1's speed as well as a cadre of C6Z06s. It was a proud day for the ZR-1s! Ask any of us that were there (and a few others too that were scratching and shaking their heads at site of the gleaming LT5s cooling in the breeze!) :dancing

P.

[LancePearson]

Paul,
Excellent description of your run.

I agree with you. I have an LS2 in my 2008 TBSS from GM Performance Group set up for road racing with Billsteins and all the rest which is heavier but has a 4:10 rear end and it will fly up to 148.8 mph and has surprised several cars even with the weight and the way it's rigged is about 415 hp. My ZR-1 1991 has so much more speed, punch and pull with its 3:45 rear end it's not even close. I told you about having a road race prepped white quite new v8 Audi R8 growl up next to me on the expressway around Richmond on the way home from a Wazoo event up at Carlisle and when he rattled his pipes next to me I was flustered and left it in 4th so he did the same slight run ahead of me when he floored his to start it for a couple seconds then the Z just pulled it's *** up and was leaving him and his girlfriend behind...the difference in cost? About $100,000 and when we both stopped for gas he came over and admired my Z saying he had no idea and that he had not seen the ZR-1 on back or sides or he wouldn't have tried it.

I think I like my car more than the modern Corvettes a lot.

It is a reality tho that the ability to add enormous amounts of power is out there now. 400 hp used to be a lot then 500 hp. Now, if you are a serious speed freak you better be thinking 700-900 hp and as you guys saw, some way more than that with turbos and supercharger whines, whistles and other assorted b.s. I hate those sounds but it is what it is.

Very nice description of your run. Communicates well what you felt and I agree, wish I could have seen it. I want to see the helicopter taken video of Robert's runs he talked about. That will be some perspective possibly.

The wannagofast people on their facebook site said that it will be two weeks before they post results in spread sheet form.

Lance

[LancePearson]

Here is another good video of the racing and it even includes a couple good shots of Warp Ten, a ZR-1!

Looked like a lot of fun despite the whines and whistles of boosted cars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVnt3qSqp90

[XfireZ51]

Correspondence from WGF. Kevin just missed the NA top finish.
Need to do it again. And frankly, Pete wasn't that far off considering. Too bad Al broke and Bob G couldn't make it.


Afternoon Participants,

We just wanted to say a quick "Thank You" to everyone who participated in our incredible Chicago 1/2 Mile Shootout on June 1st and 2nd!!

We sincerely appreciate all of you coming out and having fun with your cars that we know you value so much. It appeared that everyone had a smile on their face and really enjoyed opening up the throttle for a FULL 1/2 MILE!!

This event was a true joy to host and we are very grateful to have had such an awesome time with all of you!!

The speeds we saw at this event set a new wannaGOFAST record of 214.04 MPH set by Alpha Performance in their Alpha Omega Nissan GT-R!! Multiple 190+ and 200+ runs were made and it was incredible to watch!!

Devin Shultz was close behind in his Talon Drag Car at 213.24 MPH!!

Here are the "Official" Class Winners from both days:

*June 1st and 2nd Sponsor Shootout and Forced Induction Results:

(Alpha Performance swept both categories!)

Fastest Sponsor and Fastest Forced Induction:

June 1st

Alpha Performance - Ivan Phipps - Alpha Omega Nissan GT-R - 208.88 MPH

June 2nd

Alpha Performance - Ivan Phipps - Alpha Omega Nissan GT-R - 214.04 MPH

*The Naturally Aspirated Division had separate winners for June 1st and 2nd.

June 1st - John Schmidt - 2007 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 - 160.19 MPH
June 2nd - Jeff Hawk - 2007 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 - 160.42 MPH

All in all this event was a huge success for everyone involved and we can't wait to do it again. We will keep everyone in the loop as far as when the next event will take place at Bult Field!!

Until then Stay Safe and GO FAST!!

*Thanks again to all of our sponsors, participants and fans who helped make this event possible!!

--
Kind Regards,

Blake Hutchison

President - Wanna Go Fast

850-585-5168 cell

info@wannagofast.com

www.wannagofast.com






--
Kind Regards,

Blake Hutchison

President - Wanna Go Fast

850-585-5168 cell

info@wannagofast.com

www.wannagofast.com

[LancePearson]

Was the z06 tuned...cams, ported, bigger exhaust, retuned? Thats too fast for stock zo6 by far.

Any idea?

[XfireZ51]

Was the z06 tuned...cams, ported, bigger exhaust, retuned? Thats too fast for stock zo6 by far.

Any idea?

I think you can assume same level of mod as our guys. What glorious runs those would have been.

[Pete]

I'm pretty sure if Kevin had the stock ZF 6 speed he would've went faster.

I'm also pretty sure those were moded ZO6's
Not too shaby for an auto car that grandma can drive :)

Pete

[JThomas]

I think you can assume same level of mod as our guys. What glorious runs those would have been.


Hmmmm, They say the 2007 Z06's are the fastest!

[XfireZ51]

Hmmmm, They say the 2007 Z06's are the fastest!

Joe,

Maybe fastest Z06, but not as fast as those cars were.

[Paul Workman]

You mean the ones owned by Michigan LEOs, Thomas??:)

[Pete]

Joe,you really need to do this, it's a blast.
Your doing what the car was made for.
Next year we should do a Midwest Gathering at this event.


Pete

[Paul Workman]

Joe,you really need to do this, it's a blast.
Your doing what the car was made for.
Next year we should do a Midwest Gathering at this event.


Pete

YESSSS!

[JThomas]

Yes, I would love to do this. I just love driving and competing, this year family obligations combined with work got in the way. Glad to hear you guys had a great time.

[Fully Vetted]

...Next year we should do a Midwest Gathering at this event.


Pete

That'd be a blast. I say we all put $20 in a hat and the 3 fastest club members split the pot!

[XfireZ51]

Well here's the vid of Paul going off the runway. The ZR was obviously hauling and the guy Paul ran went immediately to help out. you can hear the sirens almost immediately after.

http://youtu.be/o0k16xPD76M

[Fully Vetted]

Oh, wow. Paul, I'm glad you're relatively ok other than a few bruises. It looked like you hit about 4 feet of water!

[LancePearson]

You made a big splash, Paul! How's the car?

Did you just leave braking too late or did you have an issue with the brakes? You were hauling nicely away from the Silverado. next time, Asphalt only!

Glad you are okay though. What happened is something somebody like me was likely to do so you are not alone, Paul.

Lance

[XfireZ51]

Comp vid of WGF event

http://youtu.be/zqqeN5c_2E8

[Paul Workman]

Well, the car isn't as bruised as much as my pride, I can tell ya that!

I'd done a few runs on "another track" to test the balance of the new tires the days before, and I think I kinda got accustomed to having much longer time for braking. So, best I recall, after I crossed, I shifted up to 5th and engine braked while I looked at the tach and then in the mirror for the Silverado, back at the tach again, and then up the road...OH SHEEEIIIITTT!

Braked waaaaay to late. Just kinda pumped by the whole experience and let myself get distracted (No worries....plenty of time to brake...NOT!!!)

Anyway, I'll post some pics when I get a chance. I've got some front bumper damage and one corner of the hood. The "horns" on the frame may require pulling down about 1/2-3/4", if I'm lucky. After I get into it, I'll have a better idea. She's hurt, but can be fixed good as new.

I told Frank U that I've often thought about naming the car, but never did. Well I suggested a name for Dom when he wrecked his Z, but he didn't take it. I might as well then: Phoenix would be a good name!!

As for me, I was a little stiff the next day, but that's all. No worse for the wear. It was a wild ride - that water did a lot to help slow the car down. Mostly she slid over the berm in the mud and grass, nosed under the same chain link fence someone else had hit the day before (something about red cars, I guess), but it was the berm of the road on the far side is what go the bumper.

I couldn't do much last weekend due to prior commitments. But, this coming weekend I'll see about getting the bumper and the hood off, and then we'll see what it's gonna take.

It figures...Just when I had her running just the way I wanted, I had to pull a dumb stunt like that.:o:rolleyes:

[FU]

You didn't get hurt (excpet the ego) for that you are Lucky Paul. Car is an easy fix.
"Count yer Blessin's"

[LGAFF]

Only pussys and quitters stop 1/2 way! Paul you will be back....probably faster and better than ever!

Seriously glad you are ok, car is repairable!

[LGAFF]

Seriously I think we need that for our a motto on t-shirts at the next 1/2 mile run.

[LancePearson]

Let he who has never screwed up please step forward. What happened is understandable and will be some kind of good learning experience for you, Paul. I've screw up racing sailboats in front of Dennis Connors and his crew if you want serious embarrassment! Sounds like you've already healed and the car will get fixed.

One of the reasons I have not remarried after losing my long time wife five years ago is that women don't come with instruction manuals and they often can't be fixed when they break. Your Phoenix can be fixed!

Must have been a heck of a fraction of time knowing you were going off and slamming the brakes.

Glad you are okay.

Lance

[XfireZ51]

Seriously I think we need that for our a motto on t-shirts at the next 1/2 mile run.

"Our motto at the next 1/2 mile run????" Does that mean you're in on the next one, Lee??

[XfireZ51]

Lance,

We figured its about a football field/sec.

150mph = 220ft/sec.

[cvette98pacecar]

Lance,

We figured its about a football field/sec.

150mph = 220ft/sec.


Your math may be right. However a football field is 360' long the end zones are counted.

[LancePearson]

I agree...I figured for my car the day I ran 140 mph or so I was going 205 fps or 2/3'ds of a football field every second and if you only had 2400 feet left then any delay chews up the asphalt as Paul found out. I know that the trees out in the country were going by mighty fast and I didn't take my eyes off the road other than one glance when the speedo rolled up through the 130's and kept going until I let off. 2.3 mile straight stretch with no cross roads, homes, traffic.

Most of us figure a football field to be the playing surface of 100 yards but you can use either as reference....either way anything from 130-140 mph on up is hauling the mail and stopping becomes every bit as important as starting and getting up to speed.

Paul was not alone and there was a GTR who braked and zagged left after the traps off into the field too and ended up minus the front clip but could run the next day.

[LancePearson]

For those who ran 150 about how long did it take you to stop or did you use the whole remaining post traps runway and time it to do that?

[XfireZ51]

Your math may be right. However a football field is 360' long the end zones are counted.

Bob,

I know I'm short but it sounds impressive. Feels that way anyway. ;)

Lance,

At the end of the run I put it in neutral. The Z06 brakes did the rest.. Really didn't need to stand on them.

[LGAFF]

"Our motto at the next 1/2 mile run????" Does that mean you're in on the next one, Lee??


I think so, as long as I remember to put gas in the car on the way to the track.....there you go paul, we all have our moments:cheers:

[XfireZ51]

Here's a pretty well done comp vid. Bob's Callaway there several times. Brief shot of my car in line from rear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVlJ3WhUCXU

[Fully Vetted]

Two questions:

Any idea what the B2K ran -

http://www.zr1.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=220&pictureid=2227


And what is this?! A very large speaker or a very small turbine?

http://www.zr1.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=220&pictureid=2228

[Fully Vetted]

Robert, is this your '91 Aerobody?

http://www.zr1.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=220&pictureid=2229

[LGAFF]

It's got cop tires, cop suspension (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_(vehicle)), cop shocks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_absorber). It's a model made before catalytic converters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter) so it'll run good on regular gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#Lead)."

Blues Brothers....440 Dodge Monaco







And what is this?! A very large speaker or a very small turbine?

http://www.zr1.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=220&pictureid=2228

[Fully Vetted]

I knew I had seen it somewhere. Been years since I've seen that movie.

[XfireZ51]

David,

It's an LT5 and I believe Bob ran 139.

[BigJohn]

Robert, is this your '91 Aerobody?

http://www.zr1.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=220&pictureid=2229


That is not a B2K!
It is a ZR1!
:)

[cvette98pacecar]

Robert, is this your '91 Aerobody?

http://www.zr1.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=220&pictureid=2229

Yes, She ran 139.8 5th gear is a killer. I need to install the 3.45 back in the car.

[Fully Vetted]

That's the car that was featured in Vette mag, right? What a killer color. Looks good hauling a$$ down a runway, too.

What was your rpm at 140 mph?

[Fully Vetted]

http://www.zr1.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=220&pictureid=2227




Lol...everytime I see this pic it reminds me of this guy - http://forums.corvetteforum.com/images/smilies/rock.gif

[XfireZ51]

Yes, She ran 139.8 5th gear is a killer. I need to install the 3.45 back in the car.

Bob,

Put 19" wheels on the back. Be like 3.90s and could be enough to avoid 5th. With my 3.73s, My tach was reading about 6500. Shift lite didn't come on.

[cvette98pacecar]

Bob,

Put 19" wheels on the back. Be like 3.90s and could be enough to avoid 5th. With my 3.73s, My tach was reading about 6500. Shift lite didn't come on.

Find me some 19" OZ Mito and I will be happy to buy them.

[BigJohn]

Do they still make OZ wheels??
:confused:

[cvette98pacecar]

Do they still make OZ wheels??
:confused:

Of course they do what do you think goes on Ferrari.

[BigJohn]

Of course they do what do you think goes on Ferrari.


OZ Mito some models are discontinued; are they still available?

[cvette98pacecar]

OZ Mito some models are discontinued; are they still available?

Unfortunately no. They do come up occasionally on a couple of BMW sites but you have to be really fast as they sell really fast.
I have seen three sets of 19" Oz Mito in my life and would love to land a set as both my 91 Aerobody and 93 Ruby would have 18x10 fronts and 19x12 rears.
I have a couple other ideas that I have been working on that I will keep you in the loop.
Fronts will be 18x10 56MM offset 1.5" polished lip 8.5" standard finish barrel.
Rears will be 19x12 37 to 39 MM offset (When I get closer I will measure everything to get the correct fitment) 2.5" polished lip 9.5" standard finish barrel.
They wont be cheap I am sure. But having the Ability to put 345/30/19 sport cup tires on the rear of my cars will be worth the cost.

[Fully Vetted]

That might change up the finishing order of the autocross!

[Steve A]

Poor photo of Paul's car.

[LancePearson]

OUch.....fixable though. Glad Paul was okay.

[rkreigh]

I ran some 345 30 19 pilot sport cups on the CCW rims and LOVED the tire for about 5k miles. but after getting a bunch of hard runs and heat cycles on them they actually lost a tremendous amount of grip only after being about a year old.

expensive, but worth it. great tire. just don't be disappointed if they lose traction before they lose the tread (and there ain't much) they go away quick.

like to try the new mich super sports. not as sticky as the cups, but hopefully they handle almost as well and will give more than 5k of tread life

LOVE the Toyo RA1s (and likely would the R888s) but they don't make them in the 19' sizes I need

335 or 345 rears, 285 or 295 up front

anybody got great deals on the michelins???

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Poor photo of Paul's car.


We can fix it, Paul. Bring it to Pendleton. We'll even put some 49th St Rocker Panels on it!!!

[Fully Vetted]

What an opportune time to do an Aerobody ;)

[Paul Workman]

We can fix it, Paul. Bring it to Pendleton. We'll even put some 49th St Rocker Panels on it!!!

Oh, sheeeeiiittt! Now you've got me drooling, Brett!!!!!!!!

[BigJohn]

It looks like you were trying to keep up with my Big 4X4!!!

Is it just body damage???????

:(

[Paul Workman]

It looks like you were trying to keep up with my Big 4X4!!!

Is it just body damage???????

:(

Not entirely...:cry:

The windshield is cracked too. Good news is all other gaps between panels and doors look normal; doors open/close normally. The worst of it is the left front corner where most of the damage occurred; bumper and corner of the hood. We'll have to get it apart (this weekend?) to see what else it needs. (I'm still drooling over the possibility of 49th street rockers...yum!)

P.

[jimmac28]

Not entirely...:cry:

The windshield is cracked too. Good news is all other gaps between panels and doors look normal; doors open/close normally. The worst of it is the left front corner where most of the damage occurred; bumper and corner of the hood. We'll have to get it apart (this weekend?) to see what else it needs. (I'm still drooling over the possibility of 49th street rockers...yum!)

P.
Wow Paul that's what happens when you lollygag, I'll go with ya if you go to Brett's place, Brett can see some real 49st rockers LOL.:cheers:

[LancePearson]

Paul, Since I'm going to be in Denver that weekend and go see some of the car's practice down at Pike's Peak for the 91st race up the 12.42 miles of the mountain in less than ten minutes for the record I'll make you feel better. The fellow in this video is a six time winner of the event run now on all paved road...and you can see what he did rather near to the start at 9,200' headed up to 14,110' plus however tall you are when you stand. On the lower sections they can hit 130 to maybe 160 mph but as corners get tighter they go more like an average of 76 mph.......Welcome to Pike's Peak...by the way, he walked away from this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJka9gYz1ls

this is getting him out of what's left of the car. he could not initially get out himself but is back racing this year. No broken bones, his roll cage saved him and his 1400 hp car was totally wiped out. A few stitches in a hand and stiff and sore.

Paul, your mishap turned out rather well comparatively...no trees in Illinois!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W32EItTbLKo

[LancePearson]

Fast to do the race, slow to post the results...every time I check the last one posted is April, 2013. Two weeks plus have now gone by. You'd think they could do a spread sheet by now.

[kcl98]

I'm pretty sure if Kevin had the stock ZF 6 speed he would've went faster.

I'm also pretty sure those were moded ZO6's
Not too shaby for an auto car that grandma can drive :)

Pete


I would be happy to race either of those '07 ZO6s heads up for ET. It's common for automatics to be 2-3mph slower in trap speed, but still get to the finish line first.

Last week Friday went to Great Lakes to try to validate the car's performance. Ran 10.47 @ 133.2 mph off of a 1.55 60 ft. Density altitude was about 700-800 ft - fairly good air. Very similar to the DA during the 1/2 mile shootout and very similar to the day from a year ago with the 10.44 @ 133 from US41.

I think it's safe to say the difference between the 159 mph in the 1/2 and the 133 mph in the 1/4 is about right since the weather was very spot on. 26 mph gain seems about right for the 441.

KC

[XfireZ51]

Kevin,

It seems that 25mph may be a good number for estimating 1/2mile based on 1/4 mile trap. As an example, Pete's 129 1/4mile goes ~ 154 1/2mile. That would suggest Al and BobG at about 159+. So it would be a GLORIOUS race between them and the Z06s.

[Paul Workman]

The results for the Chicago 1/2 mile WANNAGOFAST event is posted on their web site. I took the liberty of beginning the compiling and sorting the raw data and a piece of that preliminary work will appear in the HOTB, perhaps yet this week.

Some pretty interesting stuff. I'm curious what some of us number-crunchers are going to glean from this event! I know Lance will be all over it, and I'm working on an article for next edition of the HOTB that will merge Marc Haibeck's piece on torque and acceleration with average torque under the curve (of the LT5s vs. others) and see how the race data compares.

Good stuff!!

[LancePearson]

Paul,
Your run of 143 mph is pretty respectable within the range the 1990's Z's ran, compatible with what Marc ran in his three runs. The aerobody weight on that car while great looking would be a negative to me from looking at the results. Almost makes me want to pull the a/c since I don't use it anyway to get rid of the weight if I were really serious about racing which for me would be road racing. Good job ZR-1's!

Hard for me to make too much out of this data as you can’t tell from it who's modded what or what the rear end ratios were for any of these cars, na or forced induction. I have watched your run from the Silverado's window video he posted and he jumped the 200' cones. If you had done the same I suspect you might have hit something like 145 mph. You pulled away nicely once wound up.....next time, less run out! The Silverado is approximately like my TBSS with the lightly tuned LS2 in it with its 4:10 rear end and would lose to the Z every time even though it hauls pretty well.

My overall impression is not something I expected to see just because of lack of exposure probably, however. Surprisingly, where I’ve always more or less mentally dismissed the boosted approach because I don’t like the sound of the whine or the whistles, it looks too hard to ignore based on what’s possible among the choices. Ford has clearly made that choice in their engines as well as many others. If I were going to get serious racing right now with what I’ve seen I think I’ve have to give serious consideration not to a 2013 ZR1 but to a V6 twin turbo of some type and light-weighting whatever car it was in then take it on a road course and see just how fast it would exceed my reflexes.

Among what appears to be more recent stock vettes na or otherwise, the lightly to heavily tuned Z's of our era are very competitive it looks to me. Once you do the same amount of modding on a zo6 or a zr1 of the modern era though you get into the 600 plus horsepower range and up and associated torque and then speeds get better than ours especially if it's a 5 or 6 litre or better boosted dohc engine though it appears possible on 4 liters as well.

I wonder if the day of non boosted engines to attain really high speeds as the norm is really beginning to be kind of old fashioned a bit on other than massive engine drag cars? Fun, yes. God knows I absolutely love my 1991 ZR-1. But, if you want to go really fast, it begins to look like you (in my case, grudgingly) need to think of increased atmospheric pressure, lower compression and cramming the air/fuel in there and stepping up the cams and exhaust.

I look at some of the Ford modern dohc v6's and their company’s commitment to turbos and would bet that some of those with twin turbos might absolutely produce some screamers in cars weighing 3200 pounds or less. Hard for me to think of Lamborghini's as drag cars but they were flying at the 1/2, at least some of them.

I love my car and engine beyond belief and know it's quite competitive against other normal stock based cars. However, the impression I'm left with from the Chicago 1/2's is that to be really fast, you pretty much have to shift to boosted in some way as you can't as a practical matter keep dropping bigger and bigger cubes in to counter higher boost. It might not even be the most efficient way to do it even if you can. Keeping a boosted engine running is something to be considered as well from a maintenance point of view. Then you get into the supercars with hybrid power not so much for fuel but because they in addition to the gas engine drop a 160 to 200 hp electric motor attached to the transaxle to add even more hp to it by running both gas and electric. Torque, torque, torque.

I am curious to see how Sebastian Loeb and Rhys Millen's two boosted less than 4.0 liters V6's run on the 30th at the Pike's Peak Intl. Hill climb. Both the Peugot small sedan modified race car Loeb is running and the Hyundai Genesis Rhys is admit to just under 900 hp but probably are really closer to 1,000. Zero to 62 mph in 1.8 seconds, 0-124 mph in 7 seconds.

Whether I like it or not these technologies plus paddle shifters which means you brake left foot, accelerate right and forget the clutches for micro second shifts and no diminution of focus make that a potent thing. If you want to see them fly just go to YouTube and watch their practice runs. Screamers and would be screamers in the ½ mile too but need chutes to stop just like the GTr that ran 214mph.

On the whole, I wish I’d been there to watch but I came away with some apparent data which shifted my paradigm on engines, speed and power in ways I did not expect.

Good job by everyone of our era Z’s that ran! I can’t forget talking to Wayne Hale about his 90’s Z with the custom twin turbos on it and how he has to handle it for the speed and power it generates. Get enough clues and eventually you have to think about the approach it seems to me.

Lance


You were there, what are your conclusions, Paul?

[Dean Nelson]

They also just put out the vid of some of the runs.
three of us made the show!

Dean Nelson

[Paul Workman]

Yep! here is the video. There are glimpses of several of our Zs, including a side by side run, between (I think) Marc and Dean?? You really had to be there to appreciate the whole experience. I tell ya, it could spoil ya against that "mundane" 1/4 stuff forever!! GAWD... What a rush!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5ke8tSJFlI&feature=youtu.be

P.

[LancePearson]

Most excellent! At 2:41 and 4:28 are pretty good Z's and the purple aero (Robert's?) is in there as well. In motion the cars all looked terrific. Good video.

[Dean Nelson]

Paul, that was not me with Marc, it might have been Phil or his son in his car.
I am at about 2.40 or so on my first run of the day with a Dodge, it is the dark red one with the chrome wheels.

Dean

[LancePearson]

Paul, that was not me with Marc, it might have been Phil or his son in his car.
I am at about 2.40 or so on my first run of the day with a Dodge, it is the dark red one with the chrome wheels.

Dean

Nice Run, Dean! Your car looked good moving out!

Lance

[Dean Nelson]

Lance,
Thanks......but I could not hook it up for the life of me. I had to start at about 1100-1200 RPM and feed it in as fast as it would take it. Not like a drag strip!
I wanted to power shift 1-2 and 2-3 but their was no traction, even with the lift shift it still moved around. I do not know for sure if the power shift would have helped the top MPH, but I think it would have. Might have been 2-3 MPH better but not worth the risk at the time.

like Paul said it was a lot of fun to try this one time. some day I would like to try a mile but as Paul knows you got to have room to stop it!

Dean

[LancePearson]

Dean, Before I got my 76 or my 91 Z my oldest friend from college in Colorado where I'm going in a week to celebrate their 50th is friends with Dave Hill and his wife and a couple times they were at dinner with us. I would love to talk to Dave now as he was on duty for C5 and C6 then retired. he came from caddy and has a racing background.

Dave told Dick who passed it on to me that when they were building the C5 and C6 they built the transmission so that you could just slam it from first to second, second to third, third to fourth without even touching the clutch for racing though it would shorten the life of some of the components....They slammed them around on prototypes on test tracks and streets pretty hard he told Dick. Dave was the Corvette Chief Engineer for the C5 and 6.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Hill_(automotive_engineer)

One of the other things in the video is that in several you can see what I feel when I push mine: the front end lifts when you are in the next gear up momentarily.

Did you have tire issues, Dean?

Lance

[kcl98]

Kevin,

It seems that 25mph may be a good number for estimating 1/2mile based on 1/4 mile trap. As an example, Pete's 129 1/4mile goes ~ 154 1/2mile. That would suggest Al and BobG at about 159+. So it would be a GLORIOUS race between them and the Z06s.

I think you're math is on target, but as for a hypothetical between Bob G and the ZO6s that won the N/A class, I'd lay some cash on Bob G and not bat an eyelash. Bob's 1/4 trap is faster than my car by 2-3 mph and I know that shifting into overdrive with the automatic after mid-track hurt my mph a lot. My RPMs were only about 5800 when passing the 1/2 mile mark - way below power peak. With the 6-speed, that wouldn't be a problem for Bob. I predict he'd gain 27-28 mph in the 1/2 mile over the 1/4 and run about 162-163, and take the ZO6 comfortably.

At the risk of sounding like a spoil sport, I wish they had an ET clock out there. My first run was a 159.0 mph - went heads up against one of the shop tuner cars - entry #171 the Nissan 350Z Dynosty Twin Turbo who ran 165.5 mph. He was about 5 car lengths behind me. I think he thought he was going to win when he lined up against a poor old N/A C4 Vette.....

[rkreigh]

Paul,
Your run of 143 mph is pretty respectable within the range the 1990's Z's ran, compatible with what Marc ran in his three runs. The aerobody weight on that car while great looking would be a negative to me from looking at the results. Almost makes me want to pull the a/c since I don't use it anyway to get rid of the weight if I were really serious about racing which for me would be road racing. Good job ZR-1's!

Hard for me to make too much out of this data as you can’t tell from it who's modded what or what the rear end ratios were for any of these cars, na or forced induction. I have watched your run from the Silverado's window video he posted and he jumped the 200' cones. If you had done the same I suspect you might have hit something like 145 mph. You pulled away nicely once wound up.....next time, less run out! The Silverado is approximately like my TBSS with the lightly tuned LS2 in it with its 4:10 rear end and would lose to the Z every time even though it hauls pretty well.

My overall impression is not something I expected to see just because of lack of exposure probably, however. Surprisingly, where I’ve always more or less mentally dismissed the boosted approach because I don’t like the sound of the whine or the whistles, it looks too hard to ignore based on what’s possible among the choices. Ford has clearly made that choice in their engines as well as many others. If I were going to get serious racing right now with what I’ve seen I think I’ve have to give serious consideration not to a 2013 ZR1 but to a V6 twin turbo of some type and light-weighting whatever car it was in then take it on a road course and see just how fast it would exceed my reflexes.

Among what appears to be more recent stock vettes na or otherwise, the lightly to heavily tuned Z's of our era are very competitive it looks to me. Once you do the same amount of modding on a zo6 or a zr1 of the modern era though you get into the 600 plus horsepower range and up and associated torque and then speeds get better than ours especially if it's a 5 or 6 litre or better boosted dohc engine though it appears possible on 4 liters as well.

I wonder if the day of non boosted engines to attain really high speeds as the norm is really beginning to be kind of old fashioned a bit on other than massive engine drag cars? Fun, yes. God knows I absolutely love my 1991 ZR-1. But, if you want to go really fast, it begins to look like you (in my case, grudgingly) need to think of increased atmospheric pressure, lower compression and cramming the air/fuel in there and stepping up the cams and exhaust.

I look at some of the Ford modern dohc v6's and their company’s commitment to turbos and would bet that some of those with twin turbos might absolutely produce some screamers in cars weighing 3200 pounds or less. Hard for me to think of Lamborghini's as drag cars but they were flying at the 1/2, at least some of them.

I love my car and engine beyond belief and know it's quite competitive against other normal stock based cars. However, the impression I'm left with from the Chicago 1/2's is that to be really fast, you pretty much have to shift to boosted in some way as you can't as a practical matter keep dropping bigger and bigger cubes in to counter higher boost. It might not even be the most efficient way to do it even if you can. Keeping a boosted engine running is something to be considered as well from a maintenance point of view. Then you get into the supercars with hybrid power not so much for fuel but because they in addition to the gas engine drop a 160 to 200 hp electric motor attached to the transaxle to add even more hp to it by running both gas and electric. Torque, torque, torque.

I am curious to see how Sebastian Loeb and Rhys Millen's two boosted less than 4.0 liters V6's run on the 30th at the Pike's Peak Intl. Hill climb. Both the Peugot small sedan modified race car Loeb is running and the Hyundai Genesis Rhys is admit to just under 900 hp but probably are really closer to 1,000. Zero to 62 mph in 1.8 seconds, 0-124 mph in 7 seconds.

Whether I like it or not these technologies plus paddle shifters which means you brake left foot, accelerate right and forget the clutches for micro second shifts and no diminution of focus make that a potent thing. If you want to see them fly just go to YouTube and watch their practice runs. Screamers and would be screamers in the ½ mile too but need chutes to stop just like the GTr that ran 214mph.

On the whole, I wish I’d been there to watch but I came away with some apparent data which shifted my paradigm on engines, speed and power in ways I did not expect.

Good job by everyone of our era Z’s that ran! I can’t forget talking to Wayne Hale about his 90’s Z with the custom twin turbos on it and how he has to handle it for the speed and power it generates. Get enough clues and eventually you have to think about the approach it seems to me.

Lance


You were there, what are your conclusions, Paul?

lance once you boostamuv you'll fogive the whistle. pick up the latest hot rod. ford built new sportsman block boss coyote packing an inexpensive TT kit putting 1230+ at the wheels. the drive train became the limiting factor. as many will tell you, the lt5 is difficult to turbo, but clearly it's durable.

if you even want to see the world through a screaming face, you can drive the LSV, and then take a ride in the TT Z06. even though the LSx motor is a pig compared to the technically superior LT5, the boost covers a variety of engineering sins and makes the jam

I'll eventually get my TT ZR-1 off the ground, but it's going to take quite a bit more cash to do it.

when you price out the LT5 mods, running a boosted LT5 starts to become attractive. now that we have the megasquirt, (and you can use the factory ecm if you are patient enough) all it takes is a pile o cash and talent.

the TT kit for the LS6 Z06 is 12k and now that's considered expensive. the new "truck manifold" kits that make plenty of power can be had for half that and are getting better in quality.

I think that the factory LT5 manifolds could be modified in similar fashion to run the turbos in the "gills" of the C4 and make an affordable solution.

when you look at alchy injection or e85 and a "dual fuel" approach, even the high compression could be made to work to avoid a tear down.

limiting factor is the amount of cyl pressure the factory headgasket will take with the open deck design.

and cyl pressure, airflow and fuel, no matter how you get there is what makes the power.

it's just that the LT5 has always been considered "too complicated" and too expensive to mess with. hogwash, my wifes BMW is more complicated by far. the LT5 is a pretty simple and elegant DOHC motor.

I'm NO ford fan, but the little coyote, isn't all that bad, and with the crate motor running around 6k, one might be going in my old Trans Am in lieu of a BB chevy or LSx motor. just got to wait for you guessed it, more CASH!!

let me know if you want to talk turbos or experience the power of the dark side. turbos and boost is very addictive.

[cvette98pacecar]

Most excellent! At 2:41 and 4:28 are pretty good Z's and the purple aero (Robert's?) is in there as well. In motion the cars all looked terrific. Good video..

Lance, I do not think the added weight of the Aerobody kit made a big difference. We will see next year when we go fast again.

[LancePearson]

Robert,
Have they committed to do it in the Chicago area again? they seem to move it around but it looks like full attendance so you'd think they would.

I won't do it but for racing I'd want to strip my air conditioner out of the car and the associated weight. Still pretty heavy cars though there are others as heavy.

Some kind of rush for you guys who ran. Cool.

Lance

[LancePearson]

and cyl pressure, airflow and fuel, no matter how you get there is what makes the power.

it's just that the LT5 has always been considered "too complicated" and too expensive to mess with. hogwash, my wifes BMW is more complicated by far. the LT5 is a pretty simple and elegant DOHC motor.

I'm NO ford fan, but the little coyote, isn't all that bad, and with the crate motor running around 6k, one might be going in my old Trans Am in lieu of a BB chevy or LSx motor. just got to wait for you guessed it, more CASH!!

let me know if you want to talk turbos or experience the power of the dark side. turbos and boost is very addictive.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, you are right. an engine is just a pump and if you want more power you can make bigger or more cylinders, higher revving cylinders or compress and increase atmospheric pressure in existing cylinders or some of all of the above while improving air intake flow and volume and matching it with cams and exhaust getting it outta there. What some are doing with turbos on small engines, v6's, is just amazing. I am really curious to see how Sebastian Loeb and Rhys Millen do with theirs at the Pikes Peak race June 30. Here's Sebastian Loeb's flat track times with it: 0-62mph 1.8 seconds, 0-124mph 7.0 seconds, 0-149 mph in about ten seconds and up from there. Lightweight race prepped gutted tube cars but still, with 900-1000 hp that is flying.

I spoke in detail in the past with one owner who did have a custom job done to add tt on a 90's z and it was then all custom work but created an absolute screamer in the lt5. At some point they scream so much it almost anywhere in the gears overpowers the wheels ability to grip. I guess that's why drag cars with huge power eventually went to huge racing drag slicks.

Like I said, time to start acknowledging the power of the turbo option to gain more than stock power. Has to be considered where ten years ago it was just an exotic high maintenance gimic. don't think so anymore.

Lance

[BigJohn]

Poor photo of Paul's car.







BUMP!

[XfireZ51]

Robert,
Have they committed to do it in the Chicago area again? they seem to move it around but it looks like full attendance so you'd think they would.

I won't do it but for racing I'd want to strip my air conditioner out of the car and the associated weight. Still pretty heavy cars though there are others as heavy.

Some kind of rush for you guys who ran. Cool.

Lance

Lance,

WGF is talking 2 Chicago events next year.

[Paul Workman]

Hope so! "Phoenix" (hopefully) goes to see Doc Brett this w/e where the road to recovery officially will begin!:-D "Not hurt bad", bolstered by some measurements taken Sunday, is music to my ears! I'd like to see what she does from the "dig" vs. rolling start. (Oh, yeah...and brake early, brake often! ... Gotta try to remember that!!):p

P.

[BigJohn]

Well, you didn't put it in the pond!

[-=Jeff=-]

Hope so! "Phoenix" (hopefully) goes to see Doc Brett this w/e where the road to recovery officially will begin!:-D "Not hurt bad", bolstered by some measurements taken Sunday, is music to my ears! I'd like to see what she does from the "dig" vs. rolling start. (Oh, yeah...and brake early, brake often! ... Gotta try to remember that!!):p

P.

Check on my rocker while you are there :)

[Bob Eyres]

I'm NO ford fan, but the little coyote, isn't all that bad, and with the crate motor running around 6k, one might be going in my old Trans Am in lieu of a BB chevy or LSx motor.


Burt Reynolds just had a seizure :eek:

[Hog]

Hey Lance, Hotrod Magazine has been running a Coyote swap series for the last couple editions. The Coyote engines start at $6000 and that's just for the engine. Coyote into Fox body Mustangs cost $17,000-$20,000 once you get all the weird parts that allow the engine to sit in the body.

Coyote is a cool engine, but there's no way I'd do one over an LS3. $6000 gets you a 525hp 376 LS3 stock from GM. Much better match IMO for the car you speak of.

[LancePearson]

Hog, seems like if you spend around $20,000 one way or another today you can take a 5.7 litre v8 and crank it up to 500-600 hp with the engineering knowledge around. It sure would make me think twice to leave the dohc architecture though. A dohc with twin turbos has to be a beast that will really crank. The little 3.5 l. v6 Sebastian Loeb ran in a Peugot and Rhys Millen ran a 4.0 twin turbo v6 4.0 liter that each put up published approx 900 hp and were probably tuned higher than that. Loeb won the Pike's Peak Hill climb race in his by obliterating the prior year record of 9'46" at 8'13" and change. Millen ran 9'02" but finished second. Take our engines and spin turbos on them and you'd have to see 1,000 hp. Way more than I could manage. The Loeb car on a flat track did 0-62 mph in 1.8 seconds, 0-124 mph in 7 seconds and to 149 in 10 seconds I believe. I love my lt5 and I love my 2008 LS2 with the 4:10 rear end but after seeing what people are doing with turbos it is hard not to think I might do something like that rather than the traditional re sleeve, port and relieve, solely if I were to do something more to the engine.

Lance

[Paul Workman]

Ah...the ol PEAK HORSEPOWER argument again... In an upcoming edition of the HOTB, the subject of torque and acceleration will be touched on, and for those that can "read between the lines", something will become clear when comparing contemporary pushrod architecture to DOHC. Lance's opinion on FI is correct, far as achieving really big HP numbers go (in anything that is street driven, BTW). But, the top speeds at the 1/2 mile shootout in Chicago were (exclusively?) DOHC platforms as well.

It is a never ending argument, I suppose. And, the venue has as much as anything to do with which engine architecture has an advantage; auto-cross and road courses favor low-end torque, the reason (in part) why the Challenge cars did so well. And, I believe, the reason the 1/2 mile smiled so favorably on the ZR-1s is due to the "long legs" of their DOHCs.

I tell ya what is going to end the argument tho...electric motors! A motor at each wheel is the future sports car; I'm talking hybrid. Bet on it. The question is how best to feed them? That will depend on the application. (Personally, I think it would be sexy to spin the generator(s) with a gas turbine. I suppose that might be fine for a LeMans type race, but not so much for a grocery getting in the "Family Truckster".)

Arguing about the virtues of various internal combustion architectures has been fun for a long time, though the sand is running out of the hourglass on that one, I believe.

We live in interesting times... But, my "antique" Corvette still has more capability than I'm capable of wringing out of it, tho I try to push the envelope when I can. I'm tellin ya that 5-2 down shift at around 50 and standing on that LT5 to mid 7000s has wiped the smirk off the faces of many would-be "bad azzez!" I'm just sayin!

P.

[XfireZ51]

Paul,

It's pretty amazing that you can do a 5-2 downshift on an LT5 without blowing up the motor.

[LancePearson]

Paul, I agree with you. Fact is, to me, torque and when and where you get it is really a better measure of pushing a car than HP. HP just sounded sexier to marketing types. The DOHC architecture is terrific for that it seems to me. With regard to electric motors some of the very best new hyper cars coming out now have not only gas engines, dohc, that are hugely powerful but they add a 160 to 200 hp dc drive motor to the rear transaxle and coordinate it to run WITH the gas engine...we are talking expensive cars but the experimenting is going on along with turbos spun by electricity rather than exhaust gas...no lag.

I saw a few days ago the auction of the 1954 famous Mercedes W196 race car that Juan Fangio campaigned in Formula 1. It was a 2.5 liter 8 cylinder, direct fuel injection car that generated about 290 hp on that small chassis and won 9 of 12 races it raced. It sold for $29.7 million to set an auction record as it is the original the famous Fangio drove, one of three. It also had something else unique...probably won't spell this correctly: desdemondic valve cam operation. Instead of a spring pressure closing the valve at the right time it uses a cam lobe to both open the valve for injection and another to close the valve. I'm told some Ducati motorcycles have used it as well. Looks more complex to me but there's no spring weakening with it either. I'll attach a photo or drawing in a second. There are so many technologies around that have been known for years....and our cars have a good mix of them especially considering they are 22 years old in my car's case. I could not find out how fast the W196 car ran but I'd guess it was in Ferrari Testarosa territory a few years later for top end (that's less than our cars can do btw!). Didn't hurt that the famous Argentine driver, Fangio, drove it. BTW, he won F1 for four different teams in four different cars, the only one ever to do it. Shumacher finally won four F1 crowns but not for four different teams and cars. Fangio became the honorary president of Mercedes of Argentina and died at age 84.

[LancePearson]

Desdemondic valve operation...and what the W196 looked like...it was supercharged with technology of the day. 290 hp out of a 2.5 liter straight 8 cylinder engine then was a lot. Today more can be wrung out of it than that by far but usually with v6 or v8 architecture of something like 64 to 90 degree v's...puts them in smaller space or behind the driver and ahead of the rear wheels. The limit on power today seems to me that it is not knowledge but money to modify and install. You can get to huge horsepowers any of several ways. I'm looking forward to reading the torque/acceleration discussion. I can tell you the torque in my LS2 410 hp engine with a 4:10 rear end is nothing compared to that of my LT5. Not even close.

The Des. valve arrangement looks like you would go from four cams to six cams to do it which would seem to add complexity and cost...same arguments for sticking with the two valve pushrod engine architecture GM used. However, I wonder what the possible trade offs in benefits are? No one that I saw really said when referring to the Mercedes race car.

Lance

[XfireZ51]

Desmodromic valve train is a hallmark of Ducati bikes. That and birdcage chassis.

[Hog]

Ah...the ol PEAK HORSEPOWER argument again... In an upcoming edition of the HOTB, the subject of torque and acceleration will be touched on, and for those that can "read between the lines", something will become clear when comparing contemporary pushrod architecture to DOHC. Lance's opinion on FI is correct, far as achieving really big HP numbers go (in anything that is street driven, BTW). But, the top speeds at the 1/2 mile shootout in Chicago were (exclusively?) DOHC platforms as well.

It is a never ending argument, I suppose. And, the venue has as much as anything to do with which engine architecture has an advantage; auto-cross and road courses favor low-end torque, the reason (in part) why the Challenge cars did so well. And, I believe, the reason the 1/2 mile smiled so favorably on the ZR-1s is due to the "long legs" of their DHOCs.

I tell ya what is going to end the argument tho...electric motors! A motor at each wheel is the future sports car; I'm talking hybrid. Bet on it. The question is how best to feed them? That will depend on the application. (Personally, I think it would be sexy to spin the generator(s) with a gas turbine. I suppose that might be fine for a LeMans type race, but not so much for a grocery getting in the "Family Truckster".)

Arguing about the virtues of various internal combustion architectures has been fun for a long time, though the sand is running out of the hourglass on that one, I believe.

We live in interesting times... But, my "antique" Corvette still has more capability than I'm capable of wringing out of it, tho I try to push the envelope when I can. I'm tellin ya that 5-2 down shift at around 50 and standing on that LT5 to mid 7000s has wiped the smirk off the faces of many would-be "bad azzez!" I'm just sayin!

P.
I remember reading a car rag from the mid 90's that stated "By the time the ZR-1 driver performed a 5-2 downshift, that pesky twin turbo Porsche would be gone". (I thought to myself, wouldn't it take time for the tiny engine to spool its hairdryers???)

I wasn't arguing the merits of engine platforms, merely the spending of $20,000 on a Coyote engine vs spending $6000 for a 525hp engine. Pure economics.

I wont argue the power that will be made with a turbo or 2 on a DOHC engine like the LT5 or Coyote. It would be FUN to say the least.

I think throwing a turbo on an LT5 really takes away the need for larger cubes. Pressurized air from turbos entering hogged out runners and heads make for much more power.

Paul I await the article on torque vs acceleration. I read an article that touches on the GEN 1 L98 vs GEN 2 LT1 comparison. The L98 makes more peak torque than the GEN 2 LT1, but the LT1 makes 50 extra hp with an extra 1000rpm or useable revs.
The comparison of a 1991 L98 auto coupe and a 1992 LT1 auto coupe is a great one as there are very comparable in weight and aerodynamics. It really illustrates how torque, power and rpm can influence acceleration when all else is equal.
250hp@4000rpm/350 lb/ft torque@3200rpm
300hp@5000rpm/335lb/ft torque@3600rpm

Its all about physics: Force, Work, Time and the LT5 takes this a step further over the LT1.

[Paul Workman]

Paul,

It's pretty amazing that you can do a 5-2 downshift on an LT5 without blowing up the motor.

U R Kidding, right? I'm referring to shifting from 5 to 2 @ 50 mph.

7200 = approx. 90 mph in 2nd gear (stock ZR-1 config; diff, tires, wheels, etc), so proportionally speaking, 50 mph = approx. 4k rpm...right in the wheel house of the LT5. And, you know from first hand experience that tires can come loose going to 3rd gear at mid 5000s, leave alone 4000 in 2nd gear.

Oh, yeah, a 5-2 shift is something Pete put me onto, and it is a real stunner; something a DOHC can really appreciate. Try it sometime!

PS: Usually, I double-clutch into 2nd, or at least pop the revs with the clutch in so it comes out of the hole hard when the clutch comes out quick. YeeeHaw!

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Paul, music to my ears!!!!:-D

[DennisC]

Amazing Video, WOW!