Initial thoughts on Pete's Intake/Exhaust cam combo

[XfireZ51]

They're very nice.

[XfireZ51]

With each successive calibration update, the car gets more fun to drive. Idle is at about 875-925 but the roughness of it has been calmed down. Throttle is very responsive. Fifth gear feels like fourth or even third. No hesitation when I hit the loud pedal. Moving off from a standstill feels as if there is more bottom end. I can drive the car in 6th gear at 8-900 rpm w no lugging. It's blubbery, but it will pull,until it starts to accelerate more normally. At cruise, the motor is pretty quiet and smooth. A few more runs to hone the tune further but it's getting pretty close. Exhaust note makes radio unecessary. Next up will be WOT.

[Paul Workman]

Sounds great! Looking forward to your dyno numbers next!

P.

[efnfast]

Dom, what did you have done?

[Pete]

Hi Dom

I hear you need to give the car a push start from stop lights. :-D

Pete

[FU]

SSHHHHHHHHhhhhhhh Stop talking about Pete........he's here now !

[XfireZ51]

Hi Dom

I hear you need to give the car a push start from stop lights. :-D

Pete

Yes you do. There's no low end torque. I'm gonna cut a hole in the floorboard and get some Fred Flintstone sandals so I can get car rolling.

[tpepmeie]

Go bigger. You need some 255's on the intake, and at least .500 lift to get the ports working.... :)

I'm planning an upgrade path for the 427. Think 800 N/A is within reach? Who needs streetability?

T

[LGAFF]

The new Ford 5.0 DOHC uses performance cams with .497 intake lift and .453 exhaust.....

[XfireZ51]

Go bigger. You need some 255's on the intake, and at least .500 lift to get the ports working.... :)

I'm planning an upgrade path for the 427. Think 800 N/A is within reach? Who needs streetability?

T

Todd,

Actually Pete's current cams are larger than these. He tells me the cams now installed on my motor are the ones that did a 129 trap. He thinks he's at a six of one, half a dozen of the other situation on cams for a 5.7L motor.

Would you keep exhaust as is, or go bigger on yours? What overlap are you planning on? Be interesting to get Behan's view

[tpepmeie]

Would you keep exhaust as is, or go bigger on yours? What overlap are you planning on? Be interesting to get Behan's view

Actually, I think 244 exhaust with good ports is plenty. I will keep that, add lift. And go bigger on the intake to reduce the time-area ratio. My current setup peaked torque about 600 revs higher than I intended. The ratio needs work I think.

Now back to your thread....

[XfireZ51]

Just wrapped up another datalogging session. Overall, this last bin is very close. The new bin has mainly minor tweaks to the VE tables. Very likely this should be a final VE table calc. The BLMs L/R straddle 128 w L being more consistently leaner than the right side, but the gap between the two can also be a function of variance in the two NBO2 sensors themselves. In any case, its at a point of it being almost a matter of semantics. The idle is not baby butt smooth however its pretty respectable between 875-925.
Startup and warmup are good. Cruise and throttle response are right there. Really nice note to the exhaust. With driveability squared away, next up is WOT tuning in a couple of weeks. Stay tuned.

[Paul Workman]

Just wrapped up another datalogging session. Overall, this last bin is very close. The new bin has mainly minor tweaks to the VE tables. Very likely this should be a final VE table calc. The BLMs L/R straddle 128 w L being more consistently leaner than the right side, but the gap between the two can also be a function of variance in the two NBO2 sensors themselves. In any case, its at a point of it being almost a matter of semantics. The idle is not baby butt smooth however its pretty respectable between 875-925.
Startup and warmup are good. Cruise and throttle response are right there. Really nice note to the exhaust. With driveability squared away, next up is WOT tuning in a couple of weeks. Stay tuned.

Dom, l'd like to see that session!:dancing

P.

[XfireZ51]

Results of dyno session. Baseline v Final Config. This compares final tuned versions of Intake cam v Intake + Exhaust cam.


http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x198/Z51Xfire/52413DynoRun_zpsa9c985ed.jpg (http://s187.photobucket.com/user/Z51Xfire/media/52413DynoRun_zpsa9c985ed.jpg.html)

[efnfast]

Dom, what did Pete do? P&P and new cams?

[XfireZ51]

Steve,

The bottom graph is motor w Top End done by me, ported heads by GVD, exhaust, and Pete's intake cams only. Top graph added exhaust cams. Tune is
mine in both cases. I'll post the baseline graph for this morning which was something like 439/389.

[efnfast]

How come the 345 curve dives at 5K?

[Pete]

Dom,looks like torque picked up across the board,nice.:dancing

Enjoy brotha.
Pete

[FU]

Look's great , nice work :cheers:

[XfireZ51]

How come the 345 curve dives at 5K?

That's the torque curve and it peaks at about 5200rpm.

[XfireZ51]

Here's the compare between Intake/Exhaust cam combination vs. Intake only cams. Each has ported top end and heads.
Top line is current config but prior to tuning.


http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x198/Z51Xfire/604v524Dyno_zps571793f1.jpg (http://s187.photobucket.com/user/Z51Xfire/media/604v524Dyno_zps571793f1.jpg.html)


Here's where I started and ended the tuning session. This was all fuel. Timing really made little to no difference from previous.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x198/Z51Xfire/524Tuneresults_zps2a1abd2e.jpg (http://s187.photobucket.com/user/Z51Xfire/media/524Tuneresults_zps2a1abd2e.jpg.html)

[efnfast]

That's the torque curve and it peaks at about 5200rpm.

Got it, sorry, duh. Nice nice numbers. Someday when I grow up.

[XfireZ51]

Actually, I think 244 exhaust with good ports is plenty. I will keep that, add lift. And go bigger on the intake to reduce the time-area ratio. My current setup peaked torque about 600 revs higher than I intended. The ratio needs work I think.

Now back to your thread....


Todd,

BTW, increasing the Injector Offset for the Accels did what was intended. I was actually able to reduce the DC% and VE% for WOT in the table by about 10%. Certainly gives me more headroom w same injectors. I used the voltage table but then realized I could target the additional PW by using the Offset v PW table.

[LGAFF]

Awesome #s Dominic! :censored:Awesome!

Is that 560 crank?

[XfireZ51]

Awesome #s Dominic! :censored:Awesome!

Is that 560 crank?

It's 533 or 545 depending on your parasitic loss factor.

[ALZR1]

It's 533 or 545 depending on your parasitic loss factor.


Nice numbers Dominic.


AL.

[Blue Flame Restorations]

I can't imagine my Turq car without them. :)

[ALZR1]

I can't imagine my Turq car without them. :)

imagine it send the car back to Pete's for A massage.

AL.

[Blue Flame Restorations]

imagine it send the car back to Pete's for A massage.

AL.


Massage to 427ci this Winter and BIGGER cams!! :)

[ALZR1]

Massage to 427ci this Winter and BIGGER cams!! :)

now you're talking.

AL.

[Paul Workman]

453sh at the wheels @6868 rpm...Extreamely NICE! :thumbsup: There is tons of "meat" under that torque curve, to be sure. Congratz! Looking forward to how it runs at Monee next weekend!!

P.

[Karl]

Here's the compare between Intake/Exhaust cam combination vs. Intake only cams. Each has ported top end and heads.
Top line is current config but prior to tuning.


http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x198/Z51Xfire/604v524Dyno_zps571793f1.jpg (http://s187.photobucket.com/user/Z51Xfire/media/604v524Dyno_zps571793f1.jpg.html)


Here's where I started and ended the tuning session. This was all fuel. Timing really made little to no difference from previous.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x198/Z51Xfire/524Tuneresults_zps2a1abd2e.jpg (http://s187.photobucket.com/user/Z51Xfire/media/524Tuneresults_zps2a1abd2e.jpg.html)


How is the idle with the cams? Does it idle like stock, nice n smooth, or is it choppy, like a big cam race car?

Nice numbers too!

[XfireZ51]

453sh at the wheels @6868 rpm...Extreamely NICE! :thumbsup: There is tons of "meat" under that torque curve, to be sure. Congratz! Looking forward to how it runs at Monee next weekend!!

P.

Yeah Paul. No less than 350rwtq from 3700 to 6700 rpm. Rather broad torque curve.

[XfireZ51]

How is the idle with the cams? Does it idle like stock, nice n smooth, or is it choppy, like a big cam race car?

Nice numbers too!

No it doesn't idle quite like stock. Idle is somewhere around 875-925 at 52-54kPa or about 15"Hg. It has a deep bass note to it but the Z06 exhaust valves do a nice job. However, the car idles MUCH better than an OHV 5.7L would that puts out >530hp. Just think of the bumpstick you'd be using in order to reach a HP peak of 6800rpm!
More valves are better than 1. :):)

[XfireZ51]

Once I got the vacuum leak issue resolved (loose fuel rails), I started datalogging again to refine the part throttle tune. I don't think the vacuum leak would affect WOT much due to equal pressure inside and outside the intake tract. Pretty much have it dialed in now ( famous last words, right Todd ;),
with idle in the 875-925 range, and IACs at ~20. Had an opportunity to take a long drive w it and recorded 23mpg @ 75-80mph. After about 600miles, the tailpipes are not sooty but more of a golden color w the chrome visible under the slight film. WB registering 14.5-14.9, and BLMs ( running and idling in Closed Loop) avg. 127. Ran like a champ and blew off a few pretenders along the way at part throttle. So overall, the motor drives and runs well, idles and doesn't stall.

[ALZR1]

Once I got the vacuum leak issue resolved (loose fuel rails), I started datalogging again to refine the part throttle tune. I don't think the vacuum leak would affect WOT much due to equal pressure inside and outside the intake tract. Pretty much have it dialed in now ( famous last words, right Todd ;),
with idle in the 875-925 range, and IACs at ~20. Had an opportunity to take a long drive w it and recorded 23mpg @ 75-80mph. After about 600miles, the tailpipes are not sooty but more of a golden color w the chrome visible under the slight film. WB registering 14.5-14.9, and BLMs ( running and idling in Closed Loop) avg. 127. Ran like a champ and blew off a few pretenders along the way at part throttle. So overall, the motor drives and runs well, idles and doesn't stall.

Good Job Dom.

AL.

[XfireZ51]

Al,

As usual, just one more tiny, little, itsy bitsy small tweak. Trying to see if I can get it to idle at 850 w IAC counts. Might try to do some "smoothing" next. Maybe. Or maybe I'll leave it alone and just drive it without a laptop on the passenger seat.

[XfireZ51]

After addressing the loose fuel rails and reading a bit more on the 3rd Gen forum, I started playing with timing at idle. Also continued to lower the IAC counts in the MAT table. Taking the car out for a drive in the lovely Chicago weather we are having my idle IAC counts were at 15. What's really nice is that the motor idles more smoothly and at ~ 850. I initially had idle timing set at 21d, now it's at 17.
So I am thinking that my IAC counts were disappearing because the timing was keeping the motor from idling down any further and as motor got hotter it was more difficult to bring down the idle. Another lesson learned. Thanks again RBob.

[cvette98pacecar]

Hi Dom

I hear you need to give the car a push start from stop lights. :-D

Pete

Pete, That is because he is trying to increase fuel economy by using nothing but 6th gear.