MS/Raptor Joint ECM Project on track for BG

[RHanselman]

Final tune is complete. The car with the MS/R ECM pulled 360 RWHP on a totally stock (405 hp) car. This car has No porting and has the stock exhaust. I'll see if I can get a copy of the Dyno Sheet...

BTW - The MS/Raptor ECM play's nicely with the CCM. :handshak:

It's also not the typical ECM that you read about on their website. It's the latest and greatest modified for our cars...

Cheers,
:cheers:

[RHanselman]

Here's the prototype:

The connector on the back side is for spare I/O to facilitate non-factory features and functions. The square, shiny metal thing on top of the blue board is a slot for an SD card, to facilitate onboard datalogging. The smaller metal thing just above it retains a battery for KAM memory for the internal RTCC (clock and calender).

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m578/rhanselman/ECM.jpg

[Pete]

Ron,nice very very nice.:cheers:

Pete

[-=Jeff=-]

very cool, What is the price of this again?

looks like it has some cool features

But if the SD card is buried in the ECM, you need to remove it to download it? or is there a direct PC connection to download datalogs?

[GOLDCYLON]

But if the SD card is buried in the ECM, you need to remove it to download it? or is there a direct PC connection to download datalogs?


Exactly my thought. There should be a port to the side or?

[-=Jeff=-]

Also if I recall, this will allow use of CNP and eliminate the need for the Ignition module and Waste spark system in our cars right?..

EDIT:; is it designed to fit into an OEM case?

If so, I am keeping my L98 727 ECMS for a bit, they might become useful

[scottfab]

Looking forward to hearing all the details on the final product.

[RHanselman]

very cool, What is the price of this again?

looks like it has some cool features

But if the SD card is buried in the ECM, you need to remove it to download it? or is there a direct PC connection to download datalogs?

I was shooting for $2500 but we'll see after all is said and done. This ends up being about half of what the Big Stuff 3 would cost with all the needed accessories and harnesses to run the extra injectors. Corey charges over $1k to install a BS3 on other applications. This is plug and play with no modifications needed unless you want to run CNP and such...

I've asked the question about the SD card and should have the answer tomorrow. From what I remember the Card can be downloaded via one of the ports. Just not sure which. Believe me, it won't be hard...

[RHanselman]

Also if I recall, this will allow use of CNP and eliminate the need for the Ignition module and Waste spark system in our cars right?..

EDIT:; is it designed to fit into an OEM case?

If so, I am keeping my L98 727 ECMS for a bit, they might become useful

CNP is an option but you'll obviously need to mod the harness to install the coils.

We designed the board to fit the OEM case however with the addition of the extra port we had to go with a custom unit. It will still fit in the stock location and have a similar appearance.

Keep you old units. I believe Jerry will have a turn-in credit for the old ECMs.

BTW - we couldn't source the 4 large connectors that hook to the harness. We're using used connectors that have been inspected and tested to be good.

Cheers,
Ron

[RHanselman]

Exactly my thought. There should be a port to the side or?

The SD functionality as well as other functionality will be available via the serial port. No need to pull the SD card.

[-=Jeff=-]

SO for those of us that could not attend BG or this Seminar..

What was said of this ECM? cost? Release Date? functions? Benefits over the OEM one?

[RHanselman]

SO for those of us that could not attend BG or this Seminar..

What was said of this ECM? cost? Release Date? functions? Benefits over the OEM one?

Full details will be on the Jerry's Gaskets website later this week. We'll have the Megasquirt presentation posted as well. The're too many functions to list here. The benefits will be up to you to decide if it's right for you based on your Mods... You can download the tuner software and start to get familiar with it's capabilities at http://www.diyautotune.com/softwarelinks.htm

The ECM will be released in the next 60 days or so. Updates will be posted on Jerry's Gaskets. We'll all so be taking deposits for the first run of 10 ECMs.

Cost is $2595

Cheers,

[-=Jeff=-]

$2595 is a tough pill to swallow, I guess once the feature list is on a website it will be easier to see what you are getting.

So this is geared more for modded cars then stock cars?

[GOLDCYLON]

$2595 is a tough pill to swallow, I guess once the feature list is on a website it will be easier to see what you are getting.

So this is geared more for modded cars then stock cars?


Im guessing both as a OEM replacement however with extended capabilites for those of us with modded cars. Currently those of us with modded cars rely on modded piggy back chips or a Ostrich II Eprom emulator to tune our modded cars until you find your final tune and reburn the EPROM.

The price point here is high however to date what is the other alternative beyond finding a wrecked ZR-1 ECM if you have a failure? A lot of these $$ are the research costs yadda yadda. Just my thoughts..

[Raptor Twin Turbo]

$2595 is a tough pill to swallow, I guess once the feature list is on a website it will be easier to see what you are getting.

The Big Stuff 3 is the closest in capability to the MS PnP ECM. Here's some of their numbers:

GEN3 PRO SEFI System - BASE, 16 INJECTOR, DAE, DAI BS3-004-070 $3,595.00
GEN3 PRO SEFI - BAROMETER COMPENSATION Upgrade BS3-005-003 $215.00
GEN3 PRO SEFI - 8 INJECTOR to 16 INJECTOR Upgrade BS3-005-005 $1,200.00
GEN3 PRO SEFI - NTK WB02 for Methanol Upgrade BS3-005-017 $2,000.00
GEN3 PRO SEFI - E10-E85 Upgrade without GM Flex-Fuel Sensor BS3-005-032 $400.00
GEN3 PRO SEFI - Boost Control Upgrade without CO2 Boost Valves BS3-005-048 $595.00
GEN3 PRO SEFI MWH - 16 INJECTOR BS3-006-007 $131.00

Total = $8136 and this DOES NOT include all the new sensors you must buy and have installed. A professional install will run north of $1000...

The MS PnP incorporates more options as standard that I did not price from the BS website...

So this is geared more for modded cars then stock cars?

Well yes. As long as you have a stock or slightly modified car the stock ECM is OK. This ECM is not for everyone however if you have a stock car and want the latest and greatest you still may want one. I've already have commitments for guys that have lightly modded cars...

Really, for what you're getting the price point is very low when you compare it to any currently available aftermarket ECM. And the best thing about this one is that it's plug and play...

[-=Jeff=-]

I never thought of comparing to BS3 or similar..

Price is good especially if it can eliminate the Ignition module.. I may do that at some point.. just not now

[VetteVet]

Jeff, even if you go COP or CNP, the ignition module is still needed to process the crank position sensor signal. The MS unit is set up to use the HI REF signal being generated by the ignition module. I specifically questioned the MS guys on this.

The MS guys did state that the digital signal processor could handle direct input of the crank signal, but it remains to be seen if the software is set up to handle the 8+1 signal that our crank sensors produce.

Bottom line is that it's still unclear whether the MS system can be operated without the ignition module.

Jep

[GOLDCYLON]

Jeff, even if you go COP or CNP, the ignition module is still needed to process the crank position sensor signal. The MS unit is set up to use the HI REF signal being generated by the ignition module. I specifically questioned the MS guys on this.

The MS guys did state that the digital signal processor could handle direct input of the crank signal, but it remains to be seen if the software is set up to handle the 8+1 signal that our crank sensors produce.

Bottom line is that it's still unclear whether the MS system can be operated without the ignition module.

Jep

Interesting. BTW Jep how's your project coming?

[Raptor Twin Turbo]

Jeff, even if you go COP or CNP, the ignition module is still needed to process the crank position sensor signal. The MS unit is set up to use the HI REF signal being generated by the ignition module. I specifically questioned the MS guys on this.

The MS guys did state that the digital signal processor could handle direct input of the crank signal, but it remains to be seen if the software is set up to handle the 8+1 signal that our crank sensors produce.

Bottom line is that it's still unclear whether the MS system can be operated without the ignition module.

Jep

Jep,

Ben did clarify and answer your question. The MS can read from the sensor directly and process it. The question becomes how to get the signal from where the DIS is to the MS. A custom built harness for both DIS replacement and CoP should be all that's needed except for telling the MS what you just did... I'll verify with Ben but I'm pretty sure that's what he said.

Cheers,

[VetteVet]

Jep,

Ben did clarify and answer your question. The MS can read from the sensor directly and process it. The question becomes how to get the signal from where the DIS is to the MS. A custom built harness for both DIS replacement and CoP should be all that's needed except for telling the MS what you just did... I'll verify with Ben but I'm pretty sure that's what he said.

Cheers,

Ron,

Ben did say that the DSP circuitry could handle the signal, but the DSP being able to handle the electrical characteristics of the signal is one part of the issue. Once the AC signal from the VR type crank sensor (which can get as high as 180 volts AC) is processed and fed to one of the microprocessor input lines, the software still has to have the capability to interpret that 8+1 signal. I failed to ask Ben specifically if the software end of it was handled. As that is a signal pattern that is unique to our cars, my guess is that it's not supported unless they have made specific accomodations for it in the software.

You are right in that Ben answered my question. The fault was mine for not asking the follow-up question, which because it was unasked, is still unanswered. Therefore it is still not 100% clear in my mind that the system will work sans the ignition module.

Please don't take my response the wrong way. It is a great product and I was impressed with it's capabilities. In discussions with other owners, it is obvious that elimination of the ignition module is high on their wish lists. It would be nice to know that the MS guys had actually tested the system with the ignition module eliminated rather than someone having to purchase one and be the guinea pig.

Jep

[VetteVet]

Interesting. BTW Jep how's your project coming?

Daryll,

As I don't want to hijack Ron's thread, I will post a status update in the Tech section.

Jep

[tf95ZR1]

One nice feature I liked about the Mega Squirt is that you can change the tune live time. A side port on the MS box allows you to plug in a computer cable (connected to your computer with the MS software). While the car is on the dyno, different settings can be adjusted to your specific situation.

The unit holds a SD card (like your camera) to save data.

Ben said if you can't or don't want to tune it yourself, any local competent tuner should be able to work with the software.

[VetteVet]

One nice feature I liked about the Mega Squirt is that you can change the tune live time. A side port on the MS box allows you to plug in a computer cable (connected to your computer with the MS software). While the car is on the dyno, different settings can be adjusted to your specific situation.

The unit holds a SD card (like your camera) to save data.

Ben said if you can't or don't want to tune it yourself, any local competent tuner should be able to work with the software.

Hey Ted,

Good to meet you in BG. You're a class act. Hope the flight back wasn't too rough on you!!

Jep

[tf95ZR1]

Great to meet you also, Jep!
That's one reason I travel 4191.76 miles (flying, rental car, RT): to meet new people as crazy (or worse) than me, see old friends again, associate faces with net names, and learn a lot more about the ZR-1!
Even with all the drama, IT'S STILL WORTH IT. Kinda like a dysfuntional family.
They are still family.

On the flight home to L.A., the pilot announced that he was flying a southern route to avoid all the storms. Nice, smooth flight.

[-=Jeff=-]

Back from the dead..

With all the DIS chatter on here and CF, has MS looked at eliminating the DIS in the NEW ECM, I think the hardest piece will be resolving the 8+1 Trigger wheel we have, it has been done before on the DIS, so is there a plan for the MS guys to look at it?